The United States of America - my thoughts so far

[SMB x2 0]

There's a thoroughly disheartening and completely unnecessary dissection of the US and UK going on here. Both have their pros and cons in equal measure, and while it's interesting to discover the differences, I'm not sure I'd go about attacking or defending them so vehemently as demonstrated.

If ever there was a case of "your mileage will vary", this is it.

Stu

[Alex & Rachel 78]

I can certainly see some of the points you are saying, alienlovechild.

Personally I love red brick terraced houses. I have lived in several. I far prefer them to living in an apartment block, which is the only other option for a densely-populated area.

Damian P didn't admit the food was bad, just that the US serves certain dishes, i.e. steak, better. I've had good and bad food both in the UK, US and many other countries.

I must admit that I agree with everyone else in that I've never encountered anyone here using the N-word, and as a whole I do not come across many racist people. I'm not denying they exist, I just think you had a particularly bad experience there.

Also - you did indeed miss the beautiful parts of the UK! That's an interesting selection of cities - I think out of them all, I'd only recommend London to a tourist.

There's a thoroughly disheartening and completely unnecessary dissection of the US and UK going on here. Both have their pros and cons in equal measure, and while it's interesting to discover the differences, I'm not sure I'd go about attacking or defending them so vehemently as demonstrated.

If ever there was a case of "your mileage will vary", this is it.

Stu

Edited August 28, 2008 by Alex & Rachel

[Big Papa Zone 93]

My trip through the UK was in 1999 They must have changed the law on closing time on pubs

That explains a lot - things have changed since then. And yes, they have.

My post on the UK was pretty mild compared to all comparisons of America to Nazi Germany which met with far less disagreement. Have any of you spent at least 10 days in the U.S. South and heard the N-word?[

I can only speak for myself, ALC, but I don't remember ever making any such comparison. And to answer your question, yes (well, rural parts of the midwest)and yes. Frequently.

I noticed you rely heavily on the media and not your personal exeriences.

Er no, I'm speaking from personal experience of having lived stateside for a couple of years.

What's up with all the anti-Catholic remarks you folks chose to ignore? I'm not Catholic either.

Unless you're referring to the attitudes of the protestant communities of Northern Ireland or Glasgow, I really don't know where you're coming from here?

False comparison. It wasn't in London or other crowded place but from Holyhead to Shrewsbury. Almost every American own a car so most Americans don't have to deal with the hooligans. I've been in several countries and used their trains. The behavior of British Rail passengers was worse than India or Vietnam and conditions were on par with rural China.

I very much doubt that.

Was I supposed to act overjoyed that I was singled out and everything stolen on my last day in England? There's all those warnings on the platform about unattended bags but nothing about how poorly the train cars are designed. You can't watch your bags because there's no overhead. You have to sit on them which I did when the car was overflowing. Was the purpose of the pamphlet? Was it a souvenir of my stay in the UK?

Who on Earth suggested that you should have acted "overjoyed???????" I simply asked you what else you expected the police officers to do in the first instance, that's all!! And all trains (except tubes) have plenty of overhead storage nowadays.

I went far beyond the inner cities. I went to: Dover, London, Durham, Sterling, Inverness, Belfast, Londonderry, Shrewsbury and Portsmouth. I rode the train, remember. I saw lot of the UK but missed all the beautiful spots apparently.

LOL!! With the exception of Inverness, could you have picked any shittier spots to visit!!?? Portsmouth!!?? I'm starting to understand why you've got such a downer on the U.K. now!!

There must be a lot of empty homes. I don't remember seeing all the castles that the average Briton lives in.

Very silly remark that I shan't comment further on.

How about a camera on friggin train to stop thieves? Actually, the cameras don't bother me but the idea the U.S. government is more prying than the UK government made me laugh. One English guy claimed there weren't many cameras in London!

There are now CCTV cameras on all passenger trains. Ditto the vast majority of buses.

You admit the food blows and then bring up rotten teeth. I didn't make that observation- you did.

I didn't say "the food blows" at all. I said that you do much better steak than us. Hardly the same thing is it?

[Gemmie 142]

Whoever compared America to Nazi Germany is being silly... I must have missed that post in this topic but I don't see why it was brought up or how they even compare.

I admit, I am guilty of gaining my perception of the Southern US through the media and people that are in the North. These are created through stereotypes and sole experiences that are generalised. However, by pointing out all of these individual experiences that you've gotten from the British in different places, you're also guilty of generalising. "One English guy" and "Some Brits" aren't representative of the population just as much as the people we might see in the media aren't. "British rail passengers" is not a drunk group of rude people. Hence why my opinion of Americans doesn't come from customers that might be rude to me at work, or ones that I hear talking in passing.

I do find it extremely odd that you've heard the N word used freely or easily and so would any of my family and friends. It's just not said that way, at least I've never heard of it. Just like I've never personally heard anyone making anti-Catholic remarks towards others. Of course that's wrong, but it isn't easily swallowed.

However, I have to point out that

The reason is simple. Only 5% of the UK is non-white so it's safe to slam minorities

That is not true at all.

I'm not sure about the statistic, though I find it hard to believe. Where did you read that, if you remember?

What I do know is that it is certaintly not "safe" to slam minorities at all! It's exactly the opposite, in fact. Everyone nowadays seems to find themselves walking on eggshells trying not to offend other people. Those stories that you hear in the US about ethnic minorities being offended isn't exclusive over there; the use of the word "Christmas" has been attacked, as has the waving of the Union Jack during football season. We've had Islamic schools using a rule that says ALL children must wear the appropriate religious headwear or they will be suspended, regardless of belief, though causing an uproar about having to remove their headwear at airports for security. Groups of ethnic minorities often go around together and openly criticise the English culture and then claim racism when someone tries to defend it. That part is from personal experience and also others'. People at the schools and colleges that I attended often made comments about white people, before deeming it racist when anyone made any kind of acknowledgement of their own race.

Obviously these are just a few examples and no doubt you experience similar things over there... but saying that it's safe to clam minorities here simply is incorrect. The UK is a mixing pot of races and cultures. Just walking through my city ALONE, I find countless foreigners.

And as your bag being stolen, obviously you're not supposed to act overjoyed that it was stolen, no one expects you to. But your complaint was how it was handled by the police. What else did you want them to do, other than gain the information from you, especially (if) there wasn't an eyewitness or description of the person that stole it? The announcements at the station about unattended luggage is mostly for passenger safety. I'm pretty sure there are overhead compartments for luggage and also areas where you can stand next to it, this area is for larger pieces of luggage too. Most people I know just keep their bags on the seats with them.

It's funny you should mention about Massachusetts having an old-world look because I've been looking for a place to take my fiancee for his birthday. I found somewhere in MA that has world cuisine, so quite happy about that. They even have a British Beer place, even though I don't like beer. Looks like a nice area though.

Edited August 28, 2008 by Gemmie

[ginger1981 0]

I can certainly see some of the points you are saying, alienlovechild.

Personally I love red brick terraced houses. I have lived in several. I far prefer them to living in an apartment block, which is the only other option for a densely-populated area.

Damian P didn't admit the food was bad, just that the US serves certain dishes, i.e. steak, better. I've had good and bad food both in the UK, US and many other countries.

I must admit that I agree with everyone else in that I've never encountered anyone here using the N-word, and as a whole I do not come across many racist people. I'm not denying they exist, I just think you had a particularly bad experience there.

Also - you did indeed miss the beautiful parts of the UK! That's an interesting selection of cities - I think out of them all, I'd only recommend London to a tourist.

There's a thoroughly disheartening and completely unnecessary dissection of the US and UK going on here. Both have their pros and cons in equal measure, and while it's interesting to discover the differences, I'm not sure I'd go about attacking or defending them so vehemently as demonstrated.

If ever there was a case of "your mileage will vary", this is it.

Stu

Inverness is beautiful...it is truly god's country up there.

As for bags getting stolen, it just is a matter of where you are at. I accidently left a bag at the bus station in Inverness when my husband and I went out on a day trip to Dornie (near the Isle of Skye). It had everything in it...my passport, credit cards, phone, camera. It was a profoundly frightening feeling, which I can relate to.

I filed a police report (which I was treated with respect and I too was given some sort of pamphlet), and changed our plans to go to Edinburgh to the US consulate there to see what could be done about my belongings.

We were literally about to board the bus to Edinburgh when Nicky got a call on his phone...apparently someone had found my bag and turned it into the bus company. One of the employees went through my latest calls on my phone and called Nicky in hopes of getting a hold of me.

So basically, there are decent, honest people that live in the country. I tried to offer some kind of reward in the form of lunch or drinks but she wouldn't take them. I guess because of my experience I have a very biased view of highlanders as very upstanding people...everyone from the hostel to the bus company to the local police was helpful and treated me with the upmost respect despite stupidly leaving my bag behind.

Anyways, I'm really sorry it sounds like you had a profoundly bad experience alienlovechild. Had my experience with losing my bag been the other way I too might have had a negative point of view. But also 1999 is nearly 10 years ago now...maybe give the UK another try. And do go to Northumbria...you can't throw a stone and not hit a castle up there!

[ginger1981 0]

The whole anti-Catholic thing...I would expect to come across that in a place like (London)Derry. Methinks that even you referring to it as Londonderry means that you were hanging out with protestants who have a strong unionist view. (as a side note...Catholics refer to the city only as "Derry"...the London part was added when British rule took over). Also I've notices this to an extent in Glasgow. But in general, I haven't really came across anti Catholic sentiment. Many Brits have some Irish in their background these days, so I think the days of anti-Catholic sentiment outside of NI or Glasgow has waned.

[Nicoxcx 1]

In Glasgow there is certainly a large'ish catholic protesant divide, but only around Ibrox & Parkhead stadium and for whatever reason related to football (the Auld firm to be precise). Glasgow city center (which is where most tourists would go) is very nice and I have never come across anything anti-catholic.

The trains are also very good, I have never had to stand making plenty trips between Glasgow & Edinburgh and down to London, this again goes back to the fact you haven't been here in almost ten years.

In the US you certainly get more for your money going out to a restaraunt.

[Gemmie 142]

Hotels are also a lot cheaper.

I managed to grab 2 nights in MA or RI for just under £50.

Edited August 28, 2008 by Gemmie

[Alex & Rachel 78]

Hotels are also a lot cheaper.

I managed to grab 2 nights in MA or RI for just under £50.

And a great deal nicer! The hotel we had in San Jose for just over £100 a night...amazing!

[Mark&Steph 0]

This thread has been a very interesting read. Since I've been here, I've had no real problems at all. There are certain things I don't like, but the small differences I encounter mostly are pretty fun. I guess I've just been pretty lucky so far.

One thing I really don't like around here is... Who thought Pepto-Bismol pink was a good colour to paint houses?

And ALC's statistic wasn't too far off. Last stats were under 10% non white. Although I believe that was 2001

m.

[Barry and Jackie 0]

This thread has been a very interesting read. Since I've been here, I've had no real problems at all. There are certain things I don't like, but the small differences I encounter mostly are pretty fun. I guess I've just been pretty lucky so far.

One thing I really don't like around here is... Who thought Pepto-Bismol pink was a good colour to paint houses?

And ALC's statistic wasn't too far off. Last stats were under 10% non white. Although I believe that was 2001

m.

Yes ALC's statistic is not far off, just under 10% are non-white with the largest of those groups being Indian. The United Kingdom has a large number of different ethnic groups which are I'm sure linked to the British Empire of days gone by. Oh and one thing the UK does have is great curry houses!

I have seen many of those Pepto-Bismol pink houses recently, it seems to be in fashion at the moment!

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

I wouldn't be surprised if someone told me they heard racial epithets being used in Britain. Where I call bs is when I hear they are used against Afro-Carribbeans and not South Asians - far more likely to hear the p word than the n word.

[Mark&Steph 0]

Yes ALC's statistic is not far off, just under 10% are non-white with the largest of those groups being Indian. The United Kingdom has a large number of different ethnic groups which are I'm sure linked to the British Empire of days gone by. Oh and one thing the UK does have is great curry houses!

I have seen many of those Pepto-Bismol pink houses recently, it seems to be in fashion at the moment!

Yeah, I'm from Birmingham which has a larger than average mixed community (almost 1/3 in 2001) and there are so many different backgrounds. When you throw in the other white European backgrounds (especially after the recent influx of Polish people,) it's probably a lot higher than that.

And Birmingham has some of the best curry houses in the country

There's a whole private community just down the road from us... And every single house is painted the same colour, it's not quite pepto, but somewhere between peach and pepto... They're nice looking houses, but IMO the colour really spoils them.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone told me they heard racial epithets being used in Britain. Where I call bs is when I hear they are used against Afro-Carribbeans and not South Asians - far more likely to hear the p word than the n word.

QFT

Edited August 28, 2008 by Mark&Steph

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

And Birmingham has some of the best curry houses in the country

You can say that again! I still have dreams about this spinach and black bean balti you could get at this place called the K2 in Moseley. Although there's a place in Bradford that would give it a run for its money (the kind of place where you don't use utensils).

[alienlovechild 75]

Whoever compared America to Nazi Germany is being silly... I must have missed that post in this topic but I don't see why it was brought up or how they even compare.

It was the OP and believe me that bothered the other posters a lot less than insulting British food or the trains. Judging by the buzz I generated I take it this part of the forum doesn't brook my criticism of the home country. Americans who've been abroad have heard far worse and that was long before Bush. I even had one poster (who shall remain nameless but she she wasnt even British) who was so upset she brought up my insulting the UK on another thread which had devolved into a debate on viberators! Are they all made in Britain?

Er no, I'm speaking from personal experience of having lived stateside for a couple of years.

I appreciate that at least Gemmie gave me a an honest "no" when I asked about if anyone had been in the U.S. South despite a few remarks about how racist the region is according to TV and the movies.

Unless you're referring to the attitudes of the protestant communities of Northern Ireland or Glasgow, I really don't know where you're coming from here?

I'm not sure where the three guys on the train were from but I was surprised about yelling about "Irish slaves, "Give Bobby Sands a chicken leg" and "You know why the no one on this train will say anything? Because they're all f' ing Catholics!". By the way the worst British expat I met was Welsh.

However, by pointing out all of these individual experiences that you've gotten from the British in different places, you're also guilty of generalising. "One English guy" and "Some Brits" aren't representative of the population just as much as the people we might see in the media aren't. "British rail passengers" is not a drunk group of rude people. Hence why my opinion of Americans doesn't come from customers that might be rude to me at work, or ones that I hear talking in passing.

I didn't say all the British are nasty or anything like that. I even went out of my way to say it was one guy here and another there but the fact this stuff happened within not a few years but a few days was an eye opener.

I was wrong about the 5% non-white population in the UK, it's 8%.

white (of which English 83.6%, Scottish 8.6%, Welsh 4.9%, Northern Irish 2.9%) 92.1%, black 2%, Indian 1.8%, Pakistani 1.3%, mixed 1.2%, other 1.6% (2001 census)

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/th...ok/geos/uk.html

I think I made it clear it was 9 years ago and only 10 days in the UK. The thread was about impressions of America so far, so I thought I'd add a little balance after 83 posts on America. (Most of which were far worse than my measly take on MY UK experience) I mentioned I plan on returning to the UK at some point AND I pointed out how important Britain was and is to the world. The last part apparently wasn't enough of an endorsement.