The United States of America - my thoughts so far

[alienlovechild 75]

Alienlovechild....don't be hatin' on the British food and architecture.....I like both very much. Guess you picked the wrong places to eat as there is lots of good food to be had! Adn the brick buildings are lovely, not all, but most. We have plenty of ugly/uniform buidings her too. And some prett yucky food!

There's more than food and buildings to hate in the UK but I didn't live there so I didn't get the most balanced view.

C'mon, be honest. If you were a tourist and not considering a permanent residence in Europe, wouldn't you travel almost anywhere else before the UK? I think most Americans go to the UK thinking less linguistic barriers and some knowledge of the culture from TV shows and movies. Don't most Europeans go to say France,Spain or Italy before going the UK? The climate may a major reason.

I can't say I don't like the UK and I do plan to return at some point. Americans can't fully understand America without learning about the British Isles. Those little islands changed the course of history (for the better I believe) and still a big impact on the world. Then there is that odd somewhat creepy feeling when you first visit the UK and notice the similarities with the U.S. and feel you're in some alternate universe. I'd say the same thing about Canada only I found Canada fairly boring.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

C'mon, be honest. If you were a tourist and not considering a permanent residence in Europe, wouldn't you travel almost anywhere else before the UK? I think most Americans go to the UK thinking less linguistic barriers and some knowledge of the culture from TV shows and movies. Don't most Europeans go to say France,Spain or Italy before going the UK? The climate may a major reason.

No, absolutely not. The first country I visited outside North America was Ireland, followed by the UK. I went there two more times before setting foot on mainland Europe. I love the UK as much as I love America, though they are different countries.

[truffles 2]

There's more than food and buildings to hate in the UK but I didn't live there so I didn't get the most balanced view.

So we can take that as your admission of bias opinion?

C'mon, be honest. If you were a tourist and not considering a permanent residence in Europe, wouldn't you travel almost anywhere else before the UK? I think most Americans go to the UK thinking less linguistic barriers and some knowledge of the culture from TV shows and movies. Don't most Europeans go to say France,Spain or Italy before going the UK? The climate may a major reason.

[b]What makes you think other countries in Europe do not have their fair share of issues?....Having been to 2 out of the 3 countries you mention I can tell you that they certainly (and I have lived in the countries) do suffer the same issues but they just talk about it in a different language.[/b]

I can't say I don't like the UK and I do plan to return at some point. Americans can't fully understand America without learning about the British Isles. Those little islands changed the course of history (for the better I believe) and still a big impact on the world. Then there is that odd somewhat creepy feeling when you first visit the UK and notice the similarities with the U.S. and feel you're in some alternate universe. I'd say the same thing about Canada only I found Canada fairly boring.

What I found "creepy" about living in the UK in most recent years was the constant influences from American culture - the fast food retailers, the youth culture, the size zero pressure came from America. I heard the UK once described as an annex of the USA - I hope this trend reverses. I am desperatley trying to think of something good that has been exported from the US but I am not suceeding perhaps someone out there can throw in something?

As a Brit living in Britain I found it creepy to be in my own country and feeling like I am in America.....why would an American who spends time in UK and feels it is similar to home find that creepy? Do you think America is creepy?

[VisaJourneyLady 33]

If you've ever been to London or anywhere in the UK in the summer, you'd notice a LOT of people from the rest of Europe visiting. I'm not saying that they don't go to other places too, but the UK is certainly a common destination amongst our near neighbours. The same goes for Ireland. It's been a pretty popular camping / cycling / hiking destination long before Ryanair made Dublin such a popular city break.

But then again, your point was that tourism is not the same thing as living in a place, and I think that the OP's main points were in regards to living in the UK v's USA

[*julez* 124]

C'mon, be honest. If you were a tourist and not considering a permanent residence in Europe, wouldn't you travel almost anywhere else before the UK? I think most Americans go to the UK thinking less linguistic barriers and some knowledge of the culture from TV shows and movies. Don't most Europeans go to say France,Spain or Italy before going the UK? The climate may a major reason.

No, absolutely not. The first country I visited outside North America was Ireland, followed by the UK. I went there two more times before setting foot on mainland Europe. I love the UK as much as I love America, though they are different countries.

I'm with robin on this one. My first destination outside North America was the UK, followed by Paris. I have visited the UK a few times more since then. I have always found it to be a lovely, inviting country.

[alienlovechild 75]

There's more than food and buildings to hate in the UK but I didn't live there so I didn't get the most balanced view.

So we can take that as your admission of bias opinion?

Very perceptive of you to notice the "I" and not a "balanced view". You're a sharp one.

What makes you think other countries in Europe do not have their fair share of issues?....Having been to 2 out of the 3 countries you mention I can tell you that they certainly (and I have lived in the countries) do suffer the same issues but they just talk about it in a different language.

Who said none of the countries I mentioned don't have "issues"? Please refer to that poster and not me.

I can't say I don't like the UK and I do plan to return at some point. Americans can't fully understand America without learning about the British Isles. Those little islands changed the course of history (for the better I believe) and still a big impact on the world. Then there is that odd somewhat creepy feeling when you first visit the UK and notice the similarities with the U.S. and feel you're in some alternate universe. I'd say the same thing about Canada only I found Canada fairly boring.

What I found "creepy" about living in the UK in most recent years was the constant influences from American culture - the fast food retailers, the youth culture, the size zero pressure came from America. I heard the UK once described as an annex of the USA - I hope this trend reverses. I am desperatley trying to think of something good that has been exported from the US but I am not suceeding perhaps someone out there can throw in something? As a Brit living in Britain I found it creepy to be in my own country and feeling like I am in America.....why would an American who spends time in UK and feels it is similar to home find that creepy? Do you think America is creepy?

Fears of American influences in the UK go back to at least WWII but apparently that's news to you. How old are you if I may ask? Americans have gotten it's share of influences from British music on American youth so it's an exchange of sorts. "Zero size pressure"? You're kidding right? Brits are almost as fat as the Yanks so the pressure ain't working.

So you're claiming, for example, none of the American advancements in computer technology or medicine made it to British shores. Sherlock, you're typing on a computer and using the Internet. Ever been in airplane before? Hell, tea bags were an American invention.

As far the creepy bit goes, look at the reference to an alternate universe. Much is the same so it seems odd or creepy in that you know what it is but it's different. America is creepy to foreign eyes but less so due to American movies and TV shows. My Indian friends claim there's not much that shocks them about America because they saw images of America their whole lives growing up.

[truffles 2]

"Fears of American influences in the UK go back to at least WWII but apparently that's news to you. How old are you if I may ask? Americans have gotten it's share of influences from British music on American youth so it's an exchange of sorts. "Zero size pressure"? You're kidding right? Brits are almost as fat as the Yanks so the pressure ain't working.

So you're claiming, for example, none of the American advancements in computer technology or medicine made it to British shores. Sherlock, you're typing on a computer and using the Internet. Ever been in airplane before? Hell, tea bags were an American invention.

As far the creepy bit goes, look at the reference to an alternate universe. Much is the same so it seems odd or creepy in that you know what it is but it's different. America is creepy to foreign eyes but less so due to American movies and TV shows. My Indian friends claim there's not much that shocks them about America because they saw images of America their whole lives growing up. "

Fears as far as I am concerned are of negative influences .... as for the internet/computer technology - this would not have been possible without intial discoveries by a gentleman called Boole - Englishman. One could not invent the teabag without first having tea to put in it. The fact that obesity rates are on the rise for both countries does not negate the damaging effect of pressure to achieve the size zero - telling a parent of a girl who is starving herself that obesity rates are on the rise is no consolation. just because something may not be working doesnt mean it does not exist.

[alienlovechild 75]

Fears as far as I am concerned are of negative influences ....

I'm glad you're not afraid of positive influences but the fact you can't name any positive American contributions to the UK smacks of extreme xenophobia. Even if I didn't like Russia, China or Germany, I won't say they contributed nothing positive to the world.

as for the internet/computer technology - this would not have been possible without intial discoveries by a gentleman called Boole - Englishman.

His Boolean logic is still used but the man died in 1864 so I wouldn't credit him inventing the computer. He helped lay the theoretical groundwork along with a lot of people through the ages.

One could not invent the teabag without first having tea to put in it.

I didn't claim some American discovered tea just the teabag.

The fact that obesity rates are on the rise for both countries does not negate the damaging effect of pressure to achieve the size zero - telling a parent of a girl who is starving herself that obesity rates are on the rise is no consolation. just because something may not be working doesnt mean it does not exist.

If can't measure something or see the secondary effects, you'll a difficult time proving anything. The fact the vast majority of people in the UK and US are more overweight than starving doesn't support your version of reality. Most people aren't giants or dwarves either and the few that exist doesn't turn the world into Middle Earth either. By the way, the British model, Twiggy, is considered the modern trendsetter of size zero so you're not even correct on who influenced who first.

[aidan80 9]

The stereotypical American ?

Of course stereotypes are usually true or they would not exist

That includes stereotypes about Yorkshire people (me)

Having said that, the real core of what Margaret Thatcher said about there being 'no such thing as society' is that each individual and each family is a world away from the next one...

Sorry.. I'm cutting the quote short to avoid people having to scroll to read my few lines

Very interesting... I don't have the time at the minute to read 7 pages of this thread but I do have to say I agree 100% with quite a few points mentioned. I'm in central Florida, I've been out to where.. well they don't get non Americans.. ever and into the more.. populated areas and I have to say.. some of those stereotypes are very much alive and well.

It is a scary slice of America a real live part of living sometimes sickening history unfolding as it happens. It shouldn't be every many for himself.. should it?

[Big Papa Zone 93]

Hello, alienlovechild. OK, firstly I'd just like to make clear that I (like the vast majority of posters on VJ) am very pro-American (read post 43 of this thread) and I'm not getting involved in the cyber-slangingmatch that this thread seems to have descended into. However, I feel I must reply to some of your points, which are at best, inaccurate:

Swinging London closes pubs at 11:00 pm, what?

Actually, the UK's archaic licencing laws were repealed a few years ago. The law now allows for licenced premises to remain open 24/7 if they so wish, although the majority of establishments usually "only" stay open until 1 or 2am. Suffice to say that the 11pm shut down is now consigned to history.

Hearing the N-word to describe black people used freely.

Sorry, but that's simply not true. If you were hearing that word used "freely" then you must have stumbled upon some sort of BNP meeting. Where that word is most definitely used freely however (in my experience at least), is in the rural areas of Southern Illinois and Missouri I've lived in/visited. I'm assuming the same thing happens in the other Southern states like say, Georgia?

Trains

Crappy trains where you stand up half the time.

Drunks on the trains. Some beating drums and shouting anti-Irish and anti-Catholic slogans while the passengers stared blankly. The charming lads gave a Nazi salute to the conductor.

Admittedly our trains aren't the greatest (especially compared to some other European countries) but at least you can actually catch one in the vast majority of areas. Ever tried catching a train (or a bus or even a taxi for that matter) in rural, small town America? You'd have a job - there aren't any. And the loutish carry-on you describe invariably occurs after major sporting events - just like it does on the Metrolink home after a Rams game!!

Despite hearing how safe the UK was compared to the US, I had my bag stolen on another train and the English bobbies had me fill out a from and gave me a pamplet on crime- thanks.

Big cities are big cities - you have to watch your back wherever you go. I imagine that the stats about the U.K. being safer were simply prepared factoring in the comparitive lack of firearms, that's all. And in the first instance, what else exactly, other than take down the details of the crime on the form provided, did you expect the police officers to whom you reported your crime , to do exactly???

Most of the country looked run down (hey it's older)

Once again, you're clearly talking about the inner cities here. Did you go to beautiful Devon & Cornwall in the Southwest? What about the glorious Cotswolds around Oxfordshire way? The stunning Lake District in Cumbria? How about the breathtaking highlands of Scotland? Absolutely nothing "run down" about those areas, ALC, quite simply some of the most beautiful landscape mother nature has to offer.

and millions of ugly look-a-like brick row houses.

You're talking about terraced houses, ALC. Again, very popular in inner-city areas. Most of us don't actually live in them.

Hundreds of cameras watching the streets of London and they think Bush is Big Brother.

And the problem with this (assuming you're a law abiding citizen) is what exactly? I for one feel much safer knowing that the thieving toerags that would rob you blind without batting an eyelid are now far more likely to be brought to book.

Vile food despite formerly having a worldwide empire and hundreds of years to work on the cuisine.

Whilst I'd agree that that the eating out experience as a whole is certainly superior stateside (especially when it comes to steak - I admit you put us to shame there) isn't this whole "UK food is inedible" line about as accurate as the "all Brits have rotten teeth" one?

Here's the kicker . . . all this stuff happened during my 10 days in the UK so first impressions are memorable.

Well all I can say is that you had the crappiest 10 days ever - better luck next time!!

Edited August 28, 2008 by Damian P

[Laura+Tom 2]

[Gemmie 142]

Just dropping in to add my two pennies onto this. I'm not going to get into childish "ours is better" and my post isn't intended to be that way. I just wanted to address some things that you said, ALC.

Swinging London closes pubs at 11:00 pm, what?

Echoing what Damian said about that being a thing of the past (every place I know closes at 2-3am) and also, you'll find pubs and clubs pretty much everywhere that is either a city, a town, or a surrounding area. I've yet to see anything like this in Massachusetts alone where they claim to have taken British culture. They have a handful of Irish pubs in Boston, though when I asked about others in outside areas, I was told that there was a bar in places such as Applebee's or upstairs in a pizza restaurant, and that there wasn't any difference between that and a traditional pub.

Hearing the N-word to describe black people used freely

I have to say, I have NEVER heard the N word used freely, and I've lived in the UK for 21 years.

Granted, you said yourself that you're going from your 10 days stay over here so all I can think of is that you must have been in a very "rough" place and heard a rare occurence. Hell, a girl was thrown off Big Brother this year for using the word in jest. It just doesn't happen. I have however heard this word to describe black people many times in the states, admittedly not in person because Massachusetts is actually 96% caucasian; though the majority of the time it's heard in the media, it's from the states, usually in the south.

Trains

Crappy trains where you stand up half the time.

Drunks on the trains. Some beating drums and shouting anti-Irish and anti-Catholic slogans while the passengers stared blankly. The charming lads gave a Nazi salute to the conductor.

Our trains may not be the best, though I give you three points:

1) Trains and tubes in large cities such as London will always have limited space... it's London. I think you'll find New York shares many simularities there, for example, crowds and drunk people.

2) First Great Western have recently attempted to cut down on people having to stand up by adding extra carriages and reducing delays.

3) You'd have an extremely hard time trying to get anywhere over there (at least in MA, outside Boston) if you don't drive... public transport is just difficult to get, if not unavailable, apart from schoolbuses. Luckily, I can get around by foot, taxi, train, bus very very easily here.

Despite hearing how safe the UK was compared to the US, I had my bag stolen on another train and the English bobbies had me fill out a from and gave me a pamplet on crime- thanks.

That has actually been a complaint here in the UK, that the police aren't able to directly DO anything when a minor crime occurs. For example, if there's a party nearby and you call the police due to the disturbance, they will pretty much tell you that they're unable to do anything unless something "happens".

However, in this case, what do you expect them to do? All they can do is get a description of the person and it sounds like you didn't get a chance to get that. Another thing to add, I've heard many times not to leave your posessions while in big cities such as New York. There's nothing that can be done about that except to be extra cautious of theifs that exist everywhere.

Most of the country looked run down (hey it's older)

You're right, it's older, though I disagree about the country looking run down. There are areas that do look run down, for example parts of London or some council estates in large towns. And of course, you also get that in the US. There are also many parts that look amazing in both countries.

and millions of ugly look-a-like brick row houses.

Considering you can fit the UK inside the entirety of some states, I think this is to be expected. The population in the UK is high and we don't have the room to space our houses hundreds of feet apart with huge yards in between, especially when these kind of houses are owned by the council, hence why they all look alike. I've also heard some foreigners like this aspect though, due to the history of them. Some of them have been around for years and years, dating back to during the wars.

Hundreds of cameras watching the streets of London and they think Bush is Big Brother.

I think this is a positive thing and don't see how you can complain that the police didn't do anything about your bag being stolen, whilst complaining that they're attempting to tighten the security in the capital city where crime is higher. If we didn't have these, I dread to think of what would happen. Most of the scenes seen on the news come from cameras like this.

Vile food despite formerly having a worldwide empire and hundreds of years to work on the cuisine.

You can good food and bad food, this too isn't a British exception. There are some things that I simply cannot bring myself to eat in the US (squash, Hershey's, cheddar, etc) though I know that good food does exist there. You just have to find it through the differences. One thing I do like in comparison is how I can walk through the centre of my city and know that I have Italian, Japanese, Chinese, Turkish, French etc.. any type of cuisine to choose from. I haven't seen that stateside, though this is probably because we're in a rural area.

Here's the kicker . . . all this stuff happened during my 10 days in the UK so first impressions are memorable

I'm sorry you recieved a horrible impression of the UK during your stay.

The first time my fiancee visited, he noticed a fight occuring as we were driving through a town, with police cars zooming in. He did make a comment about "what a great first impression" . There were many things he didn't like, for example, narrow roads, everything being so expensive, an "open" culture with a lot more swearing and honesty. On his first full day here, an old man pushed him aside and told him to get the #### out of his way... he went on to tell his family about the incident, again as a first impression... though I told him not to take that as a true impression of the country as I'd never seen that happen before and was just as shocked as he was!

After staying here for a while, he realised that the UK does have a lot to offer. He saw the positive sides such as attempting to maintain historical aspects like these narrow roads and cobbled grounds, and the knowledge that we simply don't have as much space as over there. He adored the countryside and even said that he never realised that all those pictures he saw of England when he was a child actually existed. He relished in the fact that everything was in walking distance so he got to maintain a healthy weight and not depend on his car.

[Barry and Jackie 0]

Well I think things have just got a bit out of hand here! My experience of the USA has been excellent although it has been mainly focused on visits to New Mexico, Arizona and California. I suppose it just matters on where you go for the experiences you get. Also I have tasted both good food and bad food on my travels but the same can be said here in the UK.

One thing both I and my fiancee have noticed over in the USA is that Britain as a tourist destination is sold as a kind of LONDON EXPERIENCE! I find this a bit fake because it can leave tourists with completely the wrong idea of what the UK is really like. I find it quite disheartening when speaking to people from overseas who have been on holiday in the UK and they say "Oh we went to London!" (Nowhere else though). If an overseas visitor wants to see what the UK is really like they most certainly are not going to get it from a visit to London, however, maybe the 'London Experience' is all they ever really wanted? I would visit Scotland, Edinburgh for example is amazing! Wales is beautiful and if you are into history, go take a look at the castles! Also try a visit down Devon, Somerset and Cornwall way.

It's always worth remembering that when you live somewhere you dont seem to appreciate it as much as when you dont live there. My fiancee for example does not appreciate where she lives, but I do! On the other hand I dont appreciate where I live in the UK, but my fiancee adores it! I suppose you can start to lose the buzz of moving to a new place after a while, but thats where a good holiday can make a difference!

Edited August 28, 2008 by Barry and Jackie

[Laura+Tom 2]

My OH was lucky enough to spend two years in the UK with the USAF. We went absolutely everywhere and he fell in love with Somerset when we went to visit someone. We went all over the place ans I'm glad he got to see quite a lot of the UK before he left. We did visit London but the weather was terrible so it wasn't too great!

[alienlovechild 75]

My trip through the UK was in 1999 and everything did happen within a 10 day period. They must have changed the law on closing time on pubs. You guys are hung up on US vs. UK comparison but I'm looking at from living in Germany for 2 years and seeing around 29 countries in the world so I'm comparing the UK to Europe was well.

My post on the UK was pretty mild compared to all comparisons of America to Nazi Germany which met with far less disagreement.

Have any of you spent at least 10 days in the U.S. South and heard the N-word? I'm not a southerner by birth and frequently make fun of the South I noticed you rely heavily on the media and not your personal exeriences. I never claimed Americans never say the N-word but I was suprised how openly it was used in the UK. I heard the N-word in London and Londonderry and from British expats. You would think then would have been more cosmopolitan than rural America but it wasn't in that regard. I won't sayit's not said in Georgia but I haven't heard it in the year I've been here. The reason is simple. Only 5% of the UK is non-white so it's safe to slam minorities. I still remember how furious one British expat was about Albanian immigrants. How many could there be? He didn't believe me when I told him there are millions of illegal immigrants in the U.S. He wasn't some idiot. He was an engineer.

an "open" culture with a lot more swearing and honesty.

I'll agree with that one. What's up with all the anti-Catholic remarks you folks chose to ignore? I'm not Catholic either.

Admittedly our trains aren't the greatest (especially compared to some other European countries) but at least you can actually catch one in the vast majority of areas. Ever tried catching a train (or a bus or even a taxi for that matter) in rural, small town America? And the loutish carry-on you describe invariably occurs after major sporting events - just like it does on the Metrolink home after a Rams game!!

False comparison. It wasn't in London or other crowded place but from Holyhead to Shrewsbury. Almost every American own a car so most Americans don't have to deal with the hooligans. I've been in several countries and used their trains. The behavior of British Rail passengers was worse than India or Vietnam and conditions were on par with rural China. I'm a transportation planner so I know all about the pros and cons or various modes of travel.

And in the first instance, what else exactly, other than take down the details of the crime on the form provided, did you expect the police officers to whom you reported your crime , to do exactly???

Was I supposed to act overjoyed that I was singled out and everything stolen on my last day in England? There's all those warnings on the platform about unattended bags but nothing about how poorly the train cars are designed. You can't watch your bags because there's no overhead. You have to sit on them which I did when the car was overflowing. Was the purpose of the pamphlet? Was it a souvenir of my stay in the UK?

Once again, you're clearly talking about the inner cities here. Did you go to beautiful Devon & Cornwall in the Southwest? What about the glorious Cotswolds around Oxfordshire way? The stunning Lake District in Cumbria? How about the breathtaking highlands of Scotland? Absolutely nothing "run down" about those areas, ALC, quite simply some of the most beautiful landscape mother nature has to offer.

I went far beyond the inner cities. I went to: Dover, London, Durham, Sterling, Inverness, Belfast, Londonderry, Shrewsbury and Portsmouth. I rode the train, remember. I saw lot of the UK but missed all the beautiful spots apparently.

You're talking about terraced houses, ALC. Again, very popular in inner-city areas. Most of us don't actually live in them.

There must be a lot of empty homes. I don't remember seeing all the castles that the average Briton lives in.

And the problem with this (assuming you're a law abiding citizen) is what exactly? I for one feel much safer knowing that the thieving toerags that would rob you blind without batting an eyelid are now far more likely to be brought to book.

How about a camera on friggin train to stop thieves? Actually, the cameras don't bother me but the idea the U.S. government is more prying than the UK government made me laugh. One English guy claimed there weren't many cameras in London!

I admit you put us to shame there) isn't this whole "UK food is inedible" line about as accurate as the "all Brits have rotten teeth" one?

You admit the food blows and then bring up rotten teeth. I didn't make that observation- you did.

I've yet to see anything like this in Massachusetts alone where they claim to have taken British culture. They have a handful of Irish pubs in Boston, though when I asked about others in outside areas, I was told that there was a bar in places such as Applebee's or upstairs in a pizza restaurant, and that there wasn't any difference between that and a traditional pub.

Massachusetts may have more of an old world look but it was very anti-British during the American Revolution and now it's overrun with Irish. Ever heard about the Celtics? The U.S. hasn't had a widespread pub culture so sorry about that.

One thing I do like in comparison is how I can walk through the centre of my city and know that I have Italian, Japanese, Chinese, Turkish, French etc.. any type of cuisine to choose from. I haven't seen that stateside, though this is probably because we're in a rural area.

That's the difference between urban and rural. Comparing London or other city to a rural part of Massachusetts is silly. I live in small town in Georgia with Japanese, Thai, Mexican, Italian, Chinese restaurants within a 1 mile of my home.

Edited August 28, 2008 by alienlovechild