Please Help!! Confused and Don't Know Where to Begin...

[Perseverance 1]

Something else that is concerning that has not been mentioned is the time you spent talking online. It is extremely expensive to get online in Nigeria. Only people with money have it at home that have to contend with the power outages to boot.

If he was trying to scam you, he is online trying to scam others while he maintains this relationship with you.

So even if your relationship has turned legit there is a good chance he is scamming other people. Scammers do not fall in love and just stop scamming. This is his way of life and if he found his way to it he will continue until another form of money is available. Would you want to be with someone who scams for a living? Even if it is there only way of making a means?

If someone is sick in the hospital in Nigeria you are not chatting online at all unless you are rich. Internet cafe's are expensive and per minute use. Some are owned by scammer so that is when a scammer is set up for free, because they are bringing in an income. Mutual people will pretend to be one person so that if one is in the cafe they can correspond for the person who might not be able to make it in.

I only wish you the best. No one doubt you or your capabliities or mean to insult you. These scammers are educated people with degrees and no place to use them.

You will get support with your journey no matter what you chose so keep comming back. It works if you work it! *wink

this is all true

I totally disagree that THIS IS ALL TRUE.

The OP has explained in detail the changes and progression of this issue.

I disagree with Lurking's statement above, that the OP's SO is continuing to scam the OP while maintaining other relationships , is not a fact but a presumptious judgement, disrespectful and not encouraging and just over the line.

It has become a pattern here in sub-saharan that is repeated to newbies asking questions and other members alike.

Words have to be chosen carefully and saying ' some chose to continue to scam while mainting a relationship......."

would have reflected the neccessary tact and taken the personal accusation off the OP's relationship and would have been

a better approach to inform of such activity. Unless you can see this man and what you say he is doing then you don't have facts.

To me that is just common sense and mutual respect and manners on a message board.

Cafe's and personal at home computers are not the only ways to gain access to the internet. People work in offices on computers

and just like here and chat during work hours. No one said the OP chatted with her SO on the computer in the hospital so I don't know where that even came from.

I often wonder why someone feels compelled to know everything about someone's relationship that they have a glimpse of

for a few minutes on a message board.

I wonder why some people think that someone can never change if they have shown remorse and taken steps

to make a complete change. If the OP is satisfied with his progress then who here can cast such a judgement that he will continue to scam others ? It is not our place to do so.

This world would be in a real mess if people who do bad things were all unable to change and grow by Gods grace. It is easy to condem and point to the faults of others and not seeing one's own character flaws of spouting words like arrows of judgement.

Let's be respectful and show some tact to newcomers. Let's realize we are all grown and capable of our own choices and consequenses.

Romance scam groups definitely have their place and people are free to seek them out and learn from them and be warned.

However, the purpose of this immigration board is to encourage and support and help with the visa process not act like self proclaimed door keepers of others relationships , especially when not asked for relationship advice but visa route advice.

Thank God for His saving grace and mercy !

Peace to all

I don't agree with "this all true" and I do believe that there are other forums/groups available for "romance scams" however.... I think and of course this is just my opinion and girl... we agree on alot of things but... I think being a scammer is a character flaw... just like being an armed robber is. Would I trust my life to an armed robber..... hellllllll no! Same difference to me. I'm not judging, I don't know the circumstances and this obviously is not the reason we're here on this post but I did have to give my two cents for what it's worth. Do scammer's change... probably so just like felon's do. In this country, scammer's would go to prison. Would you spend your life with a felon? I sure wouldn't, no way in hell. People change, sure, but I can tell you as a single woman, I'm not prepared to put my life nor my families on the line for a chance that a person might change. Again, just my opinion and I don't mean to offend anyone... just my opinion.

Alright I really can not believe that you actually asked that? My brother is a felon, he made a bad choice he learned from his mistake. He is a respectable upstanding citizen and a good father, and a great husband. If one did not know his past they would have no idea that he had spent time in jail. People make bad choices AND do learn from them and make changes in thier life to reflect new found integrity. You are intitled to your opinion but you certainly did offened me with your close minded question, and insinuation about a humans capability to change. You can not tell by looking at someone what thier past or life hides, you only know what they choose for you to know. Many people with colorful past choose to hide them from others, do to quick draw judgements like this. It must have taken alot for the OPs SO to come clean with her about his original intention, really that is thier business not ours. Have you never made a mistake in your life that you needed to be forgiven for? Can we have some respect for the OP and her relationship please? I am really getting angry so I am going to stop here. This thread really needs to be put to bed it is just getting rediculous.

Edited August 3, 2008 by Perseverance

[lmnop123 0]

I received a private message and some of what I had to say in my response I wanted to post in the thread. This post is not directed at anyone but I felt I should add it.

Thank you for your offer of help in giving me tools to further investigate E.

I have read both your background experience and the information you provided about scammers coming clean and then professing their love to further their scam or for green card purposes.

As I have said before, honestly, I could care less about a green card and I am not giving E any money, gifts, signing anything etc... I have told him if that is what he wants time will tell and life will go on. I am not the protect a green card police. I found someone that I wish to pursue a relationship with and constitutionally I have a right to marry whoever I want and apply for his entrance into this country to be with me like anyone else. I hired a reputable private investigator to meet him, interview him, verify his information and I am happy with my findings. Why can't others accept my decision and let it go? I am not an idiot and though I appreciate it I don't need anymore warnings. I have done research that is satisfactory to my liking and that should be enough. I won't be the first or the last person that enters into a relationship with someone that is ultimately looking to get a green card.

I am not making excuses for E's behavior and I never said that E has completely given up scamming because in all honesty I don't know. But frankly how he has to survive on a day to day basis in a 3rd world country is his hustle not mine. Most people work their jobs to live. They are not their jobs. I don't want the additional tools you offer because honestly what purpose would they serve? There's nothing to look into. It will not prove or discredit anything and it won't provide a guarantee on whether he is still scamming me or looking for a green card. Just like anything else in life.... time will tell. Please let this go.

To Tony & Tess:

A person would have to be caught and convicted of their crime to be sentenced as a felon. This excludes a lot of people that commit crimes on a daily basis that get away with it or get off.

To make comments about felons and not wanting to be with one says a lot about blacks in american considering the number of black males behind bars with felony convictions. Many for small, petty drug offenses. Some would consider selling drugs a character flaw but that doesn't necessarily make someone a bad person. With so many obstacles that many black males have to overcome growing up in America sometimes selling drugs to survive or make a better life for themselves is, by choice, their best option. I am not in a position to try and judge the reasons why people do what they do because I have not walked in their shoes. I only know what it's like living as a black female in America and even though I share the same skin color as my brothers it doesn't mean that I share his same life experiences living in America. I personally think a lot of sistas just don't get it and if they could find it in them to possibly support a brother through positive change instead of looking at "his surface" maybe the black family in America would have a better chance at survival. A once drug dealer has the potential to make a great businessman. I am not promoting captain save a person but at some point in time in all of our lives we met someone that we may admired that inspired a dream or change in us, or met someone that may have believed in us, supported us, encouraged us and later celebrated in our successes.

________________________________________________________________________________

____

As an aside, I want to tell the following little story of a conversation E and I had.

I can't remember the exact thing I said to E when I asked him to come clean about whether he set out to scam me and he said yes but I remember exactly what he said to me. It went something like this........

Me paraphasing from the potential victim's perspective: Why does the world have to be this way?

E: Baby, I don't know but if it wasn't for the world being the way it is we would have never met. Perhaps the answer to your question can be found there.

For a few days I thought about what he said. For me, it was a very profound statement whether he realized it or not because even though some of us live in a near perfect world the world is not perfect. It is easy to sit back in a comfortable, safe, and secure place and say to yourself I did good, I overcame obstacles so why can't they do it too. However, let's remember that each person's journey in life is different. Being a scammer, drug dealer, prostitute, mafioso, illegal crimes, etc.. is not an individual problem but a societal one. If these societal problems were addressed perhaps these problems would disappear as well.

As I write more and more in this thread I am beginning to feel that this thread isn't really about me, E, scamming, or green cards but an underlying lack of understanding and tolerance for those that we subconsciously believe are "less thans" (those we perceive are beneath our standards or have less) whether it be in America or abroad and the powerful little wand the "do haves" in the world wave to feel that what they have to offer is so much more while they sit in judgment to decide which "less thans" are worthy or unworthy of being selected.

I thank everyone that contributed to this thread but we are moving pass this topic.

[totes 0]

Something else that is concerning that has not been mentioned is the time you spent talking online. It is extremely expensive to get online in Nigeria. Only people with money have it at home that have to contend with the power outages to boot.

If he was trying to scam you, he is online trying to scam others while he maintains this relationship with you.

So even if your relationship has turned legit there is a good chance he is scamming other people. Scammers do not fall in love and just stop scamming. This is his way of life and if he found his way to it he will continue until another form of money is available. Would you want to be with someone who scams for a living? Even if it is there only way of making a means?

If someone is sick in the hospital in Nigeria you are not chatting online at all unless you are rich. Internet cafe's are expensive and per minute use. Some are owned by scammer so that is when a scammer is set up for free, because they are bringing in an income. Mutual people will pretend to be one person so that if one is in the cafe they can correspond for the person who might not be able to make it in.

I only wish you the best. No one doubt you or your capabliities or mean to insult you. These scammers are educated people with degrees and no place to use them.

You will get support with your journey no matter what you chose so keep comming back. It works if you work it! *wink

this is all true

I totally disagree that THIS IS ALL TRUE.

The OP has explained in detail the changes and progression of this issue.

I disagree with Lurking's statement above, that the OP's SO is continuing to scam the OP while maintaining other relationships , is not a fact but a presumptious judgement, disrespectful and not encouraging and just over the line.

It has become a pattern here in sub-saharan that is repeated to newbies asking questions and other members alike.

Words have to be chosen carefully and saying ' some chose to continue to scam while mainting a relationship......."

would have reflected the neccessary tact and taken the personal accusation off the OP's relationship and would have been

a better approach to inform of such activity. Unless you can see this man and what you say he is doing then you don't have facts.

To me that is just common sense and mutual respect and manners on a message board.

Cafe's and personal at home computers are not the only ways to gain access to the internet. People work in offices on computers

and just like here and chat during work hours. No one said the OP chatted with her SO on the computer in the hospital so I don't know where that even came from.

I often wonder why someone feels compelled to know everything about someone's relationship that they have a glimpse of

for a few minutes on a message board.

I wonder why some people think that someone can never change if they have shown remorse and taken steps

to make a complete change. If the OP is satisfied with his progress then who here can cast such a judgement that he will continue to scam others ? It is not our place to do so.

This world would be in a real mess if people who do bad things were all unable to change and grow by Gods grace. It is easy to condem and point to the faults of others and not seeing one's own character flaws of spouting words like arrows of judgement.

Let's be respectful and show some tact to newcomers. Let's realize we are all grown and capable of our own choices and consequenses.

Romance scam groups definitely have their place and people are free to seek them out and learn from them and be warned.

However, the purpose of this immigration board is to encourage and support and help with the visa process not act like self proclaimed door keepers of others relationships , especially when not asked for relationship advice but visa route advice.

Thank God for His saving grace and mercy !

Peace to all

I don't agree with "this all true" and I do believe that there are other forums/groups available for "romance scams" however.... I think and of course this is just my opinion and girl... we agree on alot of things but... I think being a scammer is a character flaw... just like being an armed robber is. Would I trust my life to an armed robber..... hellllllll no! Same difference to me. I'm not judging, I don't know the circumstances and this obviously is not the reason we're here on this post but I did have to give my two cents for what it's worth. Do scammer's change... probably so just like felon's do. In this country, scammer's would go to prison. Would you spend your life with a felon? I sure wouldn't, no way in hell. People change, sure, but I can tell you as a single woman, I'm not prepared to put my life nor my families on the line for a chance that a person might change. Again, just my opinion and I don't mean to offend anyone... just my opinion.

Alright I really can not believe that you actually asked that? My brother is a felon, he made a bad choice he learned from his mistake. He is a respectable upstanding citizen and a good father, and a great husband. If one did not know his past they would have no idea that he had spent time in jail. People make bad choices AND do learn from them and make changes in thier life to reflect new found integrity. You are intitled to your opinion but you certainly did offened me with your close minded question, and insinuation about a humans capability to change. You can not tell by looking at someone what thier past or life hides, you only know what they choose for you to know. Many people with colorful past choose to hide them from others, do to quick draw judgements like this. It must have taken alot for the OPs SO to come clean with her about his original intention, really that is thier business not ours. Have you never made a mistake in your life that you needed to be forgiven for? Can we have some respect for the OP and her relationship please? I am really getting angry so I am going to stop here. This thread really needs to be put to bed it is just getting rediculous.

Ridiculous indeed! I once again allowed myself to get pulled into a thread that was bound to turn this way. My bad!

Good luck with your journey!

[Asante Maroon 0]

I received a private message and some of what I had to say in my response I wanted to post in the thread. This post is not directed at anyone but I felt I should add it.

Thank you for your offer of help in giving me tools to further investigate E.

I have read both your background experience and the information you provided about scammers coming clean and then professing their love to further their scam or for green card purposes.

As I have said before, honestly, I could care less about a green card and I am not giving E any money, gifts, signing anything etc... I have told him if that is what he wants time will tell and life will go on. I am not the protect a green card police. I found someone that I wish to pursue a relationship with and constitutionally I have a right to marry whoever I want and apply for his entrance into this country to be with me like anyone else. I hired a reputable private investigator to meet him, interview him, verify his information and I am happy with my findings. Why can't others accept my decision and let it go? I am not an idiot and though I appreciate it I don't need anymore warnings. I have done research that is satisfactory to my liking and that should be enough. I won't be the first or the last person that enters into a relationship with someone that is ultimately looking to get a green card.

I am not making excuses for E's behavior and I never said that E has completely given up scamming because in all honesty I don't know. But frankly how he has to survive on a day to day basis in a 3rd world country is his hustle not mine. Most people work their jobs to live. They are not their jobs. I don't want the additional tools you offer because honestly what purpose would they serve? There's nothing to look into. It will not prove or discredit anything and it won't provide a guarantee on whether he is still scamming me or looking for a green card. Just like anything else in life.... time will tell. Please let this go.

To Tony & Tess:

A person would have to be caught and convicted of their crime to be sentenced as a felon. This excludes a lot of people that commit crimes on a daily basis that get away with it or get off.

To make comments about felons and not wanting to be with one says a lot about blacks in american considering the number of black males behind bars with felony convictions. Many for small, petty drug offenses. Some would consider selling drugs a character flaw but that doesn't necessarily make someone a bad person. With so many obstacles that many black males have to overcome growing up in America sometimes selling drugs to survive or make a better life for themselves is, by choice, their best option. I am not in a position to try and judge the reasons why people do what they do because I have not walked in their shoes. I only know what it's like living as a black female in America and even though I share the same skin color as my brothers it doesn't mean that I share his same life experiences living in America. I personally think a lot of sistas just don't get it and if they could find it in them to possibly support a brother through positive change instead of looking at "his surface" maybe the black family in America would have a better chance at survival. A once drug dealer has the potential to make a great businessman. I am not promoting captain save a person but at some point in time in all of our lives we met someone that we may admired that inspired a dream or change in us, or met someone that may have believed in us, supported us, encouraged us and later celebrated in our successes.

________________________________________________________________________________

____

As an aside, I want to tell the following little story of a conversation E and I had.

I can't remember the exact thing I said to E when I asked him to come clean about whether he set out to scam me and he said yes but I remember exactly what he said to me. It went something like this........

Me paraphasing from the potential victim's perspective: Why does the world have to be this way?

E: Baby, I don't know but if it wasn't for the world being the way it is we would have never met. Perhaps the answer to your question can be found there.

For a few days I thought about what he said. For me, it was a very profound statement whether he realized it or not because even though some of us live in a near perfect world the world is not perfect. It is easy to sit back in a comfortable, safe, and secure place and say to yourself I did good, I overcame obstacles so why can't they do it too. However, let's remember that each person's journey in life is different. Being a scammer, drug dealer, prostitute, mafioso, illegal crimes, etc.. is not an individual problem but a societal one. If these societal problems were addressed perhaps these problems would disappear as well.

As I write more and more in this thread I am beginning to feel that this thread isn't really about me, E, scamming, or green cards but an underlying lack of understanding and tolerance for those that we subconsciously believe are "less thans" (those we perceive are beneath our standards or have less) whether it be in America or abroad and the powerful little wand the "do haves" in the world wave to feel that what they have to offer is so much more while they sit in judgment to decide which "less thans" are worthy or unworthy of being selected.

I thank everyone that contributed to this thread but we are moving pass this topic.

You have raised some really important issues here. It take a lot to really reflect and analyze where our point of views stem from. We all have different experiences, have different backgrounds, cultures, home cultures, etc... that effect the way that we think, behave and react to certain situations. Being cognizant of how our experiences or position/place in life and in society (whether from the culture of power/dominant culture or on the other end) is very important for societal growth. We (Society at large) need to seriously have REAL conversations about the issues surrounding race and class in order to dispel myths and stereotypes. The saddest thing is that WE as society are not really ready to discuss this because it brings about shame, guilt, as well as challenges the very foundation in which some are able to remain and retain their place of power.

This is not about pointing fingers at anyone...Its about making this world a better place and we cannot do this when we ignore and pretend that the pink elephant is not in the room.

I'm not saying that the discussion has to start here, because this may or may not be the place for this type of discussion BUT I encourage everyone to think about what we say before we say it and think about why we think the way we do in the first place. Self reflection is the key to growth. We really need to be honest with ourselves and only then we can improve as individuals and then as society.

We have many journeys going on concurrently with our "visa" journey and we need to be respectful of each others many journeys even if we may not understand or agree upon the way in which others decide to take on these journeys. There is no way that we can truly "know" the people who contribute to this forum. This is only one dimension of what people choose to share here and we can not assume to know anyone.

Bottom line: Think about what you say and why you said it. Be honest with yourself. Stop judging others. And be respectful of the OP's wishes. She did not ask for advice on whether or not she should continue to pursue a relationship with E. She made that very clear and explicit through out this thread. How would you feel if some one kept on pushing their views on you? You gave her your opinion, whether she chooses to adhere or not is her choice and decision and it should be respected. Continuing to push your view on someone who is not receptive of your opinion is very disrespectful.

Have a great day people!

[4theloveofhenry 8]

judge (jj)

v. judged, judg·ing, judg·es

v.tr.

1. To form an opinion or estimation of after careful consideration: judge heights; judging character.

I think we are all judging each other here. We are forming our opinion of each other and each others opinions based on what we have read. Like the defination says above , "a judgment means to form an opinion after careful consideration. We are all considering each others posts and then forming a judgment about that person, however I think the most important thing here is not the fact that we are judging but that we all try to respect everyone for being a individual with a diffrent opinion. We may never agree and feel strongly that our way is right but we must also realize that others feel the same too. Who are we to criticize someones belief or veiwpoint just becuase to us its wrong.We all, becuase of being imperfect humans, have done the wrong thing in our lives and will continue to do the wrong thing on an everyday basis becuase we will always carry our imperfection until Gods time.At time we will all say the wrong thing, do the wrong thing, and think the wrong thing. I think Ashante said it best in her post when she said we should think about what and how we say things. I want to use myself as an example, even though my intentions were not to insult another poster I went back and saw that the way I said it came across as such and I went back to apologize. I know as an opinionated person there will probably be many times that I say the wrong thing. In readressing what Ashante said, I think if I watch how I say it in the future my point will be taken better and I will not hurt anyones feelings or their pride in the process. But like I also said before, that lesson can be learned by everyone, whether you are on the offensive end or defensive end. If we feel someone else is wrong why cant we express ourselves without being critical and hurtful or giving off the impression to the other person that we are always right ourselves. That is just my feelings on the matter.

By the way, Ashanti I really appreciated your post.

Edited August 3, 2008 by 4theloveofhenry

[totes 0]

I received a private message and some of what I had to say in my response I wanted to post in the thread. This post is not directed at anyone but I felt I should add it.

Thank you for your offer of help in giving me tools to further investigate E.

I have read both your background experience and the information you provided about scammers coming clean and then professing their love to further their scam or for green card purposes.

As I have said before, honestly, I could care less about a green card and I am not giving E any money, gifts, signing anything etc... I have told him if that is what he wants time will tell and life will go on. I am not the protect a green card police. I found someone that I wish to pursue a relationship with and constitutionally I have a right to marry whoever I want and apply for his entrance into this country to be with me like anyone else. I hired a reputable private investigator to meet him, interview him, verify his information and I am happy with my findings. Why can't others accept my decision and let it go? I am not an idiot and though I appreciate it I don't need anymore warnings. I have done research that is satisfactory to my liking and that should be enough. I won't be the first or the last person that enters into a relationship with someone that is ultimately looking to get a green card.

I am not making excuses for E's behavior and I never said that E has completely given up scamming because in all honesty I don't know. But frankly how he has to survive on a day to day basis in a 3rd world country is his hustle not mine. Most people work their jobs to live. They are not their jobs. I don't want the additional tools you offer because honestly what purpose would they serve? There's nothing to look into. It will not prove or discredit anything and it won't provide a guarantee on whether he is still scamming me or looking for a green card. Just like anything else in life.... time will tell. Please let this go.

To Tony & Tess:

A person would have to be caught and convicted of their crime to be sentenced as a felon. This excludes a lot of people that commit crimes on a daily basis that get away with it or get off.

To make comments about felons and not wanting to be with one says a lot about blacks in american considering the number of black males behind bars with felony convictions. Many for small, petty drug offenses. Some would consider selling drugs a character flaw but that doesn't necessarily make someone a bad person. With so many obstacles that many black males have to overcome growing up in America sometimes selling drugs to survive or make a better life for themselves is, by choice, their best option. I am not in a position to try and judge the reasons why people do what they do because I have not walked in their shoes. I only know what it's like living as a black female in America and even though I share the same skin color as my brothers it doesn't mean that I share his same life experiences living in America. I personally think a lot of sistas just don't get it and if they could find it in them to possibly support a brother through positive change instead of looking at "his surface" maybe the black family in America would have a better chance at survival. A once drug dealer has the potential to make a great businessman. I am not promoting captain save a person but at some point in time in all of our lives we met someone that we may admired that inspired a dream or change in us, or met someone that may have believed in us, supported us, encouraged us and later celebrated in our successes.

________________________________________________________________________________

____

As an aside, I want to tell the following little story of a conversation E and I had.

I can't remember the exact thing I said to E when I asked him to come clean about whether he set out to scam me and he said yes but I remember exactly what he said to me. It went something like this........

Me paraphasing from the potential victim's perspective: Why does the world have to be this way?

E: Baby, I don't know but if it wasn't for the world being the way it is we would have never met. Perhaps the answer to your question can be found there.

For a few days I thought about what he said. For me, it was a very profound statement whether he realized it or not because even though some of us live in a near perfect world the world is not perfect. It is easy to sit back in a comfortable, safe, and secure place and say to yourself I did good, I overcame obstacles so why can't they do it too. However, let's remember that each person's journey in life is different. Being a scammer, drug dealer, prostitute, mafioso, illegal crimes, etc.. is not an individual problem but a societal one. If these societal problems were addressed perhaps these problems would disappear as well.

As I write more and more in this thread I am beginning to feel that this thread isn't really about me, E, scamming, or green cards but an underlying lack of understanding and tolerance for those that we subconsciously believe are "less thans" (those we perceive are beneath our standards or have less) whether it be in America or abroad and the powerful little wand the "do haves" in the world wave to feel that what they have to offer is so much more while they sit in judgment to decide which "less thans" are worthy or unworthy of being selected.

I thank everyone that contributed to this thread but we are moving pass this topic.

Interesting how a comment about an "armed robber" turned into an issue of black American's.... last time I checked, we had many, many white American's in prison for the same offense. As I stated in my post, my intent was not to offend anyone, also interesting how things are taken so personally on this forum. I do apologize to the OP if my post was abrupt but I stand by it and I can say without a doubt that I DO give my words much thought prior to posting. No regrets here, it is what it is. Scamming is a crime, period! Like it or not, approve or disapprove, it is a crime and I am one of the first to stand up and say that society as a whole needs to unite and do something to make a difference, however, despite the "want to" of society, we have been unsucessful in getting the legislation changed to make the necessary difference in this area.

I personally do respect the relationship of the OP and that of anyone else I come into contact with here or elsewhere. If the OP chooses to move forward with the relationship knowing what she knows, I say go for it. People do change, I believe I did say that in my post but in the case of scamming via a third world country, the likeliness is slim, not impossible but slim without another route to provide the same fruits being harvested thru scamming and they ARE abundant. Given that, a job, and there are jobs in Nigeria, I know many working Nigerian's, even thoughs that have recently obtained employment, that may pay a couple hundred dollars per month at best, is often times not as appealing. I personally lived in a third world country for two years, there are jobs in these countries. I've been to both Ghana and Nigeria, there are jobs, although not as fruitful and of course there must be determination in securing a job.

I do find the following comment from the OP to be irresponsible, especially coming from some one in her profession:

I never said that E has completely given up scamming because in all honesty I don't know. But frankly how he has to survive on a day to day basis in a 3rd world country is his hustle not mine.

I'm assuming it is of no interest to the OP of the lives that could potentially be affected by "his hustle". That's the part that bother's me. If the OP wants to marry or be involved with a criminal or reformed criminal, that's her business but, this is a serious problem and if you think that you are not being affected by it because you don't know anyone who has been scammed or have never been scammed yourself, you are sadly mistaken. We are affected every single day by this issue and it has nothing to do with black and white but about very little being done in these third world countries to eliminate the targeting of foreigner's, not just American's, it's happening to many countries.

With that said. I do wish the OP a very successful journey, whatever it may be.

[BESANGIN 0]

I know you said that you want people to stop with the warnings, but please allow me to be hard headed for a minute. You have posted a lot of personal and intimate details on this site, and seeing as it is public and the USCIS as well as the foreign consulates have access to it, I would cease that immediately if you don't want this to possibly be a roadblock in your journey. Yes they will do and use anything to deny a petition epsecially if they smell a rat. I as well as others have found that out the hard way or shall I say the shocking way. I know you said you are being honest and have noithing to hide, so were we, but the CO's don't give a rat's A$$ about how we feel and what we say. To them we are all guilty 'til they prove us innocent. Still wishing you the best.

[lmnop123 0]

Interesting how a comment about an "armed robber" turned into an issue of black American's.... last time I checked, we had many, many white American's in prison for the same offense. As I stated in my post, my intent was not to offend anyone, also interesting how things are taken so personally on this forum. I do apologize to the OP if my post was abrupt but I stand by it and I can say without a doubt that I DO give my words much thought prior to posting. No regrets here, it is what it is. Scamming is a crime, period! Like it or not, approve or disapprove, it is a crime and I am one of the first to stand up and say that society as a whole needs to unite and do something to make a difference, however, despite the "want to" of society, we have been unsucessful in getting the legislation changed to make the necessary difference in this area.

To all,

No matter how many times I say it....... I am not offended or upset. Just because I respond or express MY OPINION about what someone posted doesn't mean I took it personally.......

Totes,

I would like to know if I should conclude that you have taken what I said personally because you came back to respond?

The comment about an armed robber and not wanting to be with a felon led to my discussion about black americans. Why? Because research shows that black males are disproportionately affected and convicted of crimes amounting to a felony. Most of those being drug offenses. I said that just like you would consider being a scammer a character flaw some people would consider being a drug dealer, prostitute, thief and a relationship cheater a moral character flaw. I never said that whites are not in jail but no matter how you want to cut it, slice it, stab it or kill it black males with crack cocaine convictions outnumber white usually powder cocaine convictions. Most people know that crack convictions are harsher than powder cocaine convictions. It shouldn't be surprising that another reason blacks outnumber whites in jail is probably due to the fact that police officers practically hang out in black communities while mostly answering calls for help in white ones.

Felon? The point I was trying to make was you can only become a felon if you are caught and convicted. Piggybacking off of another poster many people have done illegal things and have criminal skeletons in their closet they just haven't been caught. Its fine that you don't wish to be with a felon but I was just stating that with so many black males living behind bars this leaves little black relationship prospects for the black woman, little chance of the black man ever marrying because he is now a felon and who wants a felon (right?) and little chance of survival for the black family.

I personally do respect the relationship of the OP and that of anyone else I come into contact with here or elsewhere. If the OP chooses to move forward with the relationship knowing what she knows, I say go for it. People do change, I believe I did say that in my post but in the case of scamming via a third world country, the likeliness is slim, not impossible but slim without another route to provide the same fruits being harvested thru scamming and they ARE abundant. Given that, a job, and there are jobs in Nigeria, I know many working Nigerian's, even thoughs that have recently obtained employment, that may pay a couple hundred dollars per month at best, is often times not as appealing. I personally lived in a third world country for two years, there are jobs in these countries. I've been to both Ghana and Nigeria, there are jobs, although not as fruitful and of course there must be determination in securing a job.

Another route? I presume a green card could be another route to a more fruitful life. Heck, maybe the scammer is saving up money to open a business or create an opportunity for himself. I am being a little sarcastic but it is possible. I never said that there weren't jobs in Nigeria but I do know that the number of jobs don't come close to the number of applicants seeking work. Cutting grass, working in crop fields, cleaning someone's toilet and working at McDonald's aint that appealing to most Americans either because I come across people everyday that are committing crimes instead of being employed in these types of work environments.

I am curious to know your nationality and ethnic background? I ask this because from personal experience and from what I have been told by a good number of Nigerians is that most Nigerians don't trust other Nigerians and in Nigeria they would give a job to a foreigner long before offering it to a fellow Nigerian. Even here in America, getting a job isn't always about having determination.

I have also found and I've been told by males from and in Nigeria that just like in America most girls don't want a man with no job, no money and possibly no future and that if you don't have an education YOU ARE NOTHING. Could that also possibly influence why someone would have an illegal job? Perhaps they want to be accepted and feel as though they are someone.

I do find the following comment from the OP to be irresponsible, especially coming from some one in her profession:

I never said that E has completely given up scamming because in all honesty I don't know. But frankly how he has to survive on a day to day basis in a 3rd world country is his hustle not mine.

I'm assuming it is of no interest to the OP of the lives that could potentially be affected by "his hustle". That's the part that bother's me. If the OP wants to marry or be involved with a criminal or reformed criminal, that's her business but, this is a serious problem and if you think that you are not being affected by it because you don't know anyone who has been scammed or have never been scammed yourself, you are sadly mistaken. We are affected every single day by this issue and it has nothing to do with black and white but about very little being done in these third world countries to eliminate the targeting of foreigner's, not just American's, it's happening to many countries.

With that said. I do wish the OP a very successful journey, whatever it may be.

I don't believe in any of my posts have I ever said "YOU" to anyone I responded to. I believe I have always spoke in the general sense and specifically when I spoke about myself. I believe I always remained polite while responding even when I felt that someone's comments about getting my freak on sexually was out of order. I think most people have assumed that their comments were so strong that it would cause me to be offended or upset just because I didn't completely agree with their opinion.

With that being said, I am writing the following to you...

I don't remember saying that scamming was not a crime. And to answer your question, yes "his hustle" is of interest to me and it shares in my interest with the multitude of lives that are affected in countries such as Nigeria, Kenya, Zimbabwe, Sudan, Liberia, Asia, Central/South America, and some European and Caribbean countries because of government corruption, interference with the democratic process, sexual exploitation of women, crimes against women, lack of rights for women and the poor/uneducated, and the slow murdering of millions of their citizens. I guess because you lived in a 3rd world country with a return ticket back to America you can attest to how things operate 99.5% of the time.

Poverty in America is no joke but its on another level in a 3rd world country so I pose the following questions to you personally........

Do you know what it is like to grow up and live in bare naked poverty? Do you know what it is like to live with no electricity for 12 hours out of the day? Do you know what it is like to live without clean water? Do you know what it is like to have to barter with a man to get a new outfit, money for your family, even AN EDUCATION? Do you know what it is like to have a sick family member denied medical care because you have no money? Do you know what it is like to see lack of opportunity and lack of hope around you everyday? Do you know what it is like to look into the eyes of a person that desperately wants a future and there are absolutely no resources available except THEM to make it happen because no one is going to give you anything? Did you ever ask and listen to or follow a scammer or a felon home to see why they could be doing what they are doing? I don't even have to take it all the way to Africa to ask....... a 3 hour plane ride from Miami to Haiti would suffice.

Until, I can personally experience the level of desperation of living in extreme poverty, I will refrain from making blanket statements and judging a person based on what type of life they live and what kind of jobs they do to survive. Do you really think scammers are the only ones making money? How could these people operate in internet cafes known for scamming unless someone somewhere in a position of authority was making scamming money too.

IMO, it also seems you may believe that everyone convicted of a crime committed it. Cool.....that's your opinon and you are entitled to it. I guess a person being caught, convicted and serving time is not enough to give them the benefit of the doubt that maybe they deserve a second chance at living a legitimate life instead of having to come out of jail and still be viewed as a criminal. Why should they do the right thing? According to you and the belief of so many others they will always be a criminal right? I guess that's why so many convicted felons go back to doing the same types of crimes they were convicted of. Why don't we just leave them in jail and save them the trouble. I suppose the reasons they may have committed the crime, i.e. lack of a good education (not their problem), living in a crime infested environment (not their problem), living day to day worried about their next meal or how they are going to pay the bills for the basic necessities they need to survive (not their problem), drug addictions (not their problem), an unjust legal system (not their problem) I could go on and on.

I just hope that if anything unjust ever happens to you or someone you love that you are able to hire a lawyer or have one publicly appointed to you that will zealously defend your case with the presumption that every person is innocent until proven guilty and everyone is entitled to a chance to change for the better no matter if they walked in off the street living illegally in this country or living large like Diddy. That lawyer would be me, the same person whose values you now judge to be irresponsible and bothersome because I choose to see social issues from a macro level not a micro one. I really wonder if you would feel like you could never be with a felon if it was a rich person because white collar crimes are crimes and just because a person hasn't been caught they have the character flaw gene.

Again, I am not upset or offended.....just writing my opinion.

Edited August 4, 2008 by lmnop123

[lmnop123 0]

I know you said that you want people to stop with the warnings, but please allow me to be hard headed for a minute. You have posted a lot of personal and intimate details on this site, and seeing as it is public and the USCIS as well as the foreign consulates have access to it, I would cease that immediately if you don't want this to possibly be a roadblock in your journey. Yes they will do and use anything to deny a petition epsecially if they smell a rat. I as well as others have found that out the hard way or shall I say the shocking way. I know you said you are being honest and have noithing to hide, so were we, but the CO's don't give a rat's A$$ about how we feel and what we say. To them we are all guilty 'til they prove us innocent. Still wishing you the best.

Thank you for your advice. I agree and that is exactly why I posted exactly what you said 2 pages ago.

[ebonyqueen 0]

Imnop123

With all due respect...You, of all people should know that once you bring something up in court (here being the court of public opinion) that it is fair game. You should have known that giving info about the nature of your relationship..(the nasty s.c.a.m word)) that it would heed some negative opinions. You could have easily asked advice without divulging such personal info. I feel strongly that because u are a defense attorney..(am i right?)you make your living defending criminals or those accused of crimes, and right now you are on the case of your life and you were just laying out the facts!

And the reason this thread keeps going is cuz u keep responding to posts, when u said you wouldnt address anything unless it pertains to your original question. Each time you share more and more personal information..and I just don't get it. It seems like you are trying to get a rise out of people...get them to continue this discussion. You have now gone into a totally different place (the black crisis in america)and seem to want to draw people in for argument. You have layed it all out like "exhibit" number 1-10!!!! Its now the prosecutors turn to cross examine. And believe me VJ'ers will anaylze this info have a rebuttal following close behind.

Bottom line: this thread has derailed....we can keep coming back with another defense of our opinion and keep the back and forth going...or we can choose to move on unless we have anymore important information to share of the K1/K3 visa process as was asked in the first place.

I personally enjoy intelligent debate...and am not afraid to speak my mind...but only if the OP takes the thread in that direction...and it seems u want to explore other controversial topics. So I will continue to be real in my posts....We can squash this right now...or move forward with respectful, intelligent debate.

If you truly want this to end....u need to stop responding to the posts that go off topic.

Peace. Love and Happiness,

Eb

[BESANGIN 0]

Imnop123

With all due respect...You, of all people should know that once you bring something up in court (here being the court of public opinion) that it is fair game. You should have known that giving info about the nature of your relationship..(the nasty s.c.a.m word)) that it would heed some negative opinions. You could have easily asked advice without divulging such personal info. I feel strongly that because u are a defense attorney..(am i right?)you make your living defending criminals or those accused of crimes, and right now you are on the case of your life and you were just laying out the facts!

And the reason this thread keeps going is cuz u keep responding to posts, when u said you wouldnt address anything unless it pertains to your original question. Each time you share more and more personal information..and I just don't get it. It seems like you are trying to get a rise out of people...get them to continue this discussion. You have now gone into a totally different place (the black crisis in america)and seem to want to draw people in for argument. You have layed it all out like "exhibit" number 1-10!!!! Its now the prosecutors turn to cross examine. And believe me VJ'ers will anaylze this info have a rebuttal following close behind.

Bottom line: this thread has derailed....we can keep coming back with another defense of our opinion and keep the back and forth going...or we can choose to move on unless we have anymore important information to share of the K1/K3 visa process as was asked in the first place.

I personally enjoy intelligent debate...and am not afraid to speak my mind...but only if the OP takes the thread in that direction...and it seems u want to explore other controversial topics. So I will continue to be real in my posts....We can squash this right now...or move forward with respectful, intelligent debate.

If you truly want this to end....u need to stop responding to the posts that go off topic.

Peace. Love and Happiness,

Eb

Here Here EB!!! I agree with you totally.

[LovinLiberia 0]

Imnop123

With all due respect...You, of all people should know that once you bring something up in court (here being the court of public opinion) that it is fair game. You should have known that giving info about the nature of your relationship..(the nasty s.c.a.m word)) that it would heed some negative opinions. You could have easily asked advice without divulging such personal info. I feel strongly that because u are a defense attorney..(am i right?)you make your living defending criminals or those accused of crimes, and right now you are on the case of your life and you were just laying out the facts!

And the reason this thread keeps going is cuz u keep responding to posts, when u said you wouldnt address anything unless it pertains to your original question. Each time you share more and more personal information..and I just don't get it. It seems like you are trying to get a rise out of people...get them to continue this discussion. You have now gone into a totally different place (the black crisis in america)and seem to want to draw people in for argument. You have layed it all out like "exhibit" number 1-10!!!! Its now the prosecutors turn to cross examine. And believe me VJ'ers will anaylze this info have a rebuttal following close behind.

Bottom line: this thread has derailed....we can keep coming back with another defense of our opinion and keep the back and forth going...or we can choose to move on unless we have anymore important information to share of the K1/K3 visa process as was asked in the first place.

I personally enjoy intelligent debate...and am not afraid to speak my mind...but only if the OP takes the thread in that direction...and it seems u want to explore other controversial topics. So I will continue to be real in my posts....We can squash this right now...or move forward with respectful, intelligent debate.

If you truly want this to end....u need to stop responding to the posts that go off topic.

Peace. Love and Happiness,

Eb

I know that this one extra post is contributing to keeping this thread alive, but I highly agree with the bolded parts in EQ's post. This thread got redundant after the 4th - 5th pages. I'm really surprised to see it still going on with everyone stating the same positions that they stated 10 pages back. I thought about the info that's floating around and the consular officers sometimes coming here and I was just hoping this thing would die, but it seems to be branching off into other topics now. Although, I highly enjoyed the OP's last post (it really was very interesting), it reminded me of my Sociology class that I just finished and I do think that this thing is headed in a totally new direction. Again, to the OP, I know you've received some great advice here and I wish you the best in whatever path you choose.

[Sylvia_n_Joseph 3]

I am just glad they are getting better at IP tracking reported scammers and associating them with people applying for ANY type of visa to this country.

Yes it means there will be lot more denials but that is just part of making sure we don't knowing admit criminals to this country.

[lmnop123 0]

Imnop123

With all due respect...You, of all people should know that once you bring something up in court (here being the court of public opinion) that it is fair game. You should have known that giving info about the nature of your relationship..(the nasty s.c.a.m word)) that it would heed some negative opinions. You could have easily asked advice without divulging such personal info. I feel strongly that because u are a defense attorney..(am i right?)you make your living defending criminals or those accused of crimes, and right now you are on the case of your life and you were just laying out the facts!

And the reason this thread keeps going is cuz u keep responding to posts, when u said you wouldnt address anything unless it pertains to your original question. Each time you share more and more personal information..and I just don't get it. It seems like you are trying to get a rise out of people...get them to continue this discussion. You have now gone into a totally different place (the black crisis in america)and seem to want to draw people in for argument. You have layed it all out like "exhibit" number 1-10!!!! Its now the prosecutors turn to cross examine. And believe me VJ'ers will anaylze this info have a rebuttal following close behind.

Bottom line: this thread has derailed....we can keep coming back with another defense of our opinion and keep the back and forth going...or we can choose to move on unless we have anymore important information to share of the K1/K3 visa process as was asked in the first place.

I personally enjoy intelligent debate...and am not afraid to speak my mind...but only if the OP takes the thread in that direction...and it seems u want to explore other controversial topics. So I will continue to be real in my posts....We can squash this right now...or move forward with respectful, intelligent debate.

If you truly want this to end....u need to stop responding to the posts that go off topic.

Peace. Love and Happiness,

Eb

You are exactly right. I will end it here but I can come back to comment on whatever I desire, in whatever thread I desire. When the time is right, I will apply for a visa for E and if it is denied, again we will move on with our lives. The Embassy will have been wrong about our intentions but they will never be able to stop the process of people falling in love and applying.

It seems that some people are unable to see the forest through the trees. The bigger picture, because they only have the desire to see what is immediately before them because its comfortable and safe. If a reader think that my posts were about the "black crisis in america" they clearly don't understand what I was saying and its probably because they were reading while already forming an opinion. The whole black crisis and felon thing was an example. An example of how ignorance continues because people see things in black and white as if there is no other possible reason for why things happen. The ignorance that people are unable to change...someone said criminals can't change..... i didn't. Someone said that people from 3rd world countries all most likely seeking money or green cards in the end....... I didn't. Someone said that a person can't do this and that in Nigeria without setting someone up for money....... I didn't. People have made all kind of blanket generalizations in this thread and I am sure most of them will continue to make them.

So, going back to my example, when black and non-black people in America and abroad make generalizations about black americans being lazy, don't want to take care of their families, the women are loud and embarrassing, the women have multiple children with different fathers, that they don't have the ability or the intellect to become anything or organize anything, that the reason why we can't progress in life is our own doing, that we only tear down communities economically not build them up, that we are uneducated....that we could not run a business and they expect us to allow them to head this country etc.. etc... all because of the selective information that they have seen on television or the radio about us....... don't waste your time defending it because I suppose its true that ALL blacks fall into that category.

An Ethiopian friend said something to me yesterday that I think others on this forum should take note of.....

There could very well be people on this board posing as members that are working for the Embassies of the countries you want to bring your loved ones from and that they may be working to gather dirt and dissuade Americans from applying for these people. I find it interesting that TRTHTLLER registered the exact same day to point out that I posted on another board, a romance scam board at that, and has not returned. Could it have been a member registering under a new name? Things that make you go hmmmm. To the members that are seeking help, protect yourself. I would suggest no pictures or the release of any identifying information. Keep in mind that there may be "moles" among us.

Peace

[totes 0]

Interesting how a comment about an "armed robber" turned into an issue of black American's.... last time I checked, we had many, many white American's in prison for the same offense. As I stated in my post, my intent was not to offend anyone, also interesting how things are taken so personally on this forum. I do apologize to the OP if my post was abrupt but I stand by it and I can say without a doubt that I DO give my words much thought prior to posting. No regrets here, it is what it is. Scamming is a crime, period! Like it or not, approve or disapprove, it is a crime and I am one of the first to stand up and say that society as a whole needs to unite and do something to make a difference, however, despite the "want to" of society, we have been unsucessful in getting the legislation changed to make the necessary difference in this area.

To all,

No matter how many times I say it....... I am not offended or upset. Just because I respond or express MY OPINION about what someone posted doesn't mean I took it personally.......

Totes,

I would like to know if I should conclude that you have taken what I said personally because you came back to respond?

The comment about an armed robber and not wanting to be with a felon led to my discussion about black americans. Why? Because research shows that black males are disproportionately affected and convicted of crimes amounting to a felony. Most of those being drug offenses. I said that just like you would consider being a scammer a character flaw some people would consider being a drug dealer, prostitute, thief and a relationship cheater a moral character flaw. I never said that whites are not in jail but no matter how you want to cut it, slice it, stab it or kill it black males with crack cocaine convictions outnumber white usually powder cocaine convictions. Most people know that crack convictions are harsher than powder cocaine convictions. It shouldn't be surprising that another reason blacks outnumber whites in jail is probably due to the fact that police officers practically hang out in black communities while mostly answering calls for help in white ones.

Felon? The point I was trying to make was you can only become a felon if you are caught and convicted. Piggybacking off of another poster many people have done illegal things and have criminal skeletons in their closet they just haven't been caught. Its fine that you don't wish to be with a felon but I was just stating that with so many black males living behind bars this leaves little black relationship prospects for the black woman, little chance of the black man ever marrying because he is now a felon and who wants a felon (right?) and little chance of survival for the black family.

I personally do respect the relationship of the OP and that of anyone else I come into contact with here or elsewhere. If the OP chooses to move forward with the relationship knowing what she knows, I say go for it. People do change, I believe I did say that in my post but in the case of scamming via a third world country, the likeliness is slim, not impossible but slim without another route to provide the same fruits being harvested thru scamming and they ARE abundant. Given that, a job, and there are jobs in Nigeria, I know many working Nigerian's, even thoughs that have recently obtained employment, that may pay a couple hundred dollars per month at best, is often times not as appealing. I personally lived in a third world country for two years, there are jobs in these countries. I've been to both Ghana and Nigeria, there are jobs, although not as fruitful and of course there must be determination in securing a job.

Another route? I presume a green card could be another route to a more fruitful life. Heck, maybe the scammer is saving up money to open a business or create an opportunity for himself. I am being a little sarcastic but it is possible. I never said that there weren't jobs in Nigeria but I do know that the number of jobs don't come close to the number of applicants seeking work. Cutting grass, working in crop fields, cleaning someone's toilet and working at McDonald's aint that appealing to most Americans either because I come across people everyday that are committing crimes instead of being employed in these types of work environments.

I am curious to know your nationality and ethnic background? I ask this because from personal experience and from what I have been told by a good number of Nigerians is that most Nigerians don't trust other Nigerians and in Nigeria they would give a job to a foreigner long before offering it to a fellow Nigerian. Even here in America, getting a job isn't always about having determination.

I have also found and I've been told by males from and in Nigeria that just like in America most girls don't want a man with no job, no money and possibly no future and that if you don't have an education YOU ARE NOTHING. Could that also possibly influence why someone would have an illegal job? Perhaps they want to be accepted and feel as though they are someone.

I do find the following comment from the OP to be irresponsible, especially coming from some one in her profession:

I never said that E has completely given up scamming because in all honesty I don't know. But frankly how he has to survive on a day to day basis in a 3rd world country is his hustle not mine.

I'm assuming it is of no interest to the OP of the lives that could potentially be affected by "his hustle". That's the part that bother's me. If the OP wants to marry or be involved with a criminal or reformed criminal, that's her business but, this is a serious problem and if you think that you are not being affected by it because you don't know anyone who has been scammed or have never been scammed yourself, you are sadly mistaken. We are affected every single day by this issue and it has nothing to do with black and white but about very little being done in these third world countries to eliminate the targeting of foreigner's, not just American's, it's happening to many countries.

With that said. I do wish the OP a very successful journey, whatever it may be.

I don't believe in any of my posts have I ever said "YOU" to anyone I responded to. I believe I have always spoke in the general sense and specifically when I spoke about myself. I believe I always remained polite while responding even when I felt that someone's comments about getting my freak on sexually was out of order. I think most people have assumed that their comments were so strong that it would cause me to be offended or upset just because I didn't completely agree with their opinion.

With that being said, I am writing the following to you...

I don't remember saying that scamming was not a crime. And to answer your question, yes "his hustle" is of interest to me and it shares in my interest with the multitude of lives that are affected in countries such as Nigeria, Kenya, Zimbabwe, Sudan, Liberia, Asia, Central/South America, and some European and Caribbean countries because of government corruption, interference with the democratic process, sexual exploitation of women, crimes against women, lack of rights for women and the poor/uneducated, and the slow murdering of millions of their citizens. I guess because you lived in a 3rd world country with a return ticket back to America you can attest to how things operate 99.5% of the time.

Poverty in America is no joke but its on another level in a 3rd world country so I pose the following questions to you personally........

Do you know what it is like to grow up and live in bare naked poverty? Do you know what it is like to live with no electricity for 12 hours out of the day? Do you know what it is like to live without clean water? Do you know what it is like to have to barter with a man to get a new outfit, money for your family, even AN EDUCATION? Do you know what it is like to have a sick family member denied medical care because you have no money? Do you know what it is like to see lack of opportunity and lack of hope around you everyday? Do you know what it is like to look into the eyes of a person that desperately wants a future and there are absolutely no resources available except THEM to make it happen because no one is going to give you anything? Did you ever ask and listen to or follow a scammer or a felon home to see why they could be doing what they are doing? I don't even have to take it all the way to Africa to ask....... a 3 hour plane ride from Miami to Haiti would suffice.

Until, I can personally experience the level of desperation of living in extreme poverty, I will refrain from making blanket statements and judging a person based on what type of life they live and what kind of jobs they do to survive. Do you really think scammers are the only ones making money? How could these people operate in internet cafes known for scamming unless someone somewhere in a position of authority was making scamming money too.

IMO, it also seems you may believe that everyone convicted of a crime committed it. Cool.....that's your opinon and you are entitled to it. I guess a person being caught, convicted and serving time is not enough to give them the benefit of the doubt that maybe they deserve a second chance at living a legitimate life instead of having to come out of jail and still be viewed as a criminal. Why should they do the right thing? According to you and the belief of so many others they will always be a criminal right? I guess that's why so many convicted felons go back to doing the same types of crimes they were convicted of. Why don't we just leave them in jail and save them the trouble. I suppose the reasons they may have committed the crime, i.e. lack of a good education (not their problem), living in a crime infested environment (not their problem), living day to day worried about their next meal or how they are going to pay the bills for the basic necessities they need to survive (not their problem), drug addictions (not their problem), an unjust legal system (not their problem) I could go on and on.

I just hope that if anything unjust ever happens to you or someone you love that you are able to hire a lawyer or have one publicly appointed to you that will zealously defend your case with the presumption that every person is innocent until proven guilty and everyone is entitled to a chance to change for the better no matter if they walked in off the street living illegally in this country or living large like Diddy. That lawyer would be me, the same person whose values you now judge to be irresponsible and bothersome because I choose to see social issues from a macro level not a micro one. I really wonder if you would feel like you could never be with a felon if it was a rich person because white collar crimes are crimes and just because a person hasn't been caught they have the character flaw gene.

Again, I am not upset or offended.....just writing my opinion.

Totes,

I would like to know if I should conclude that you have taken what I said personally because you came back to respond?

Not at all. I came back to respond because I am compassionate about scam victims and some points you made in your post weighed on my mind. With that said, I agree with some of the other posters, this thread is going nowhere fast and should be put to rest, too much personal information has already been revealed on this public forum (good point). Good luck with your journey.