Its Caturday MENA!

[Ban Hammer 13,345]

You got to love a country whose president uses young, beautiful, virgin women to guard him and one has even died saving his life. Here is a link with a pic of some of his guards. If Charles could be so kind and post the pic I would appreciate it.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http:/...=image&cd=1

[S and S 12]

You got to love a country whose president uses young, beautiful, virgin women to guard him and one has even died saving his life. Here is a link with a pic of some of his guards. If Charles could be so kind and post the pic I would appreciate it.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http:/...=image&cd=1

Thanks!

[Alhamdulillah 0]

I would like to make it clear that, contrary to the common perception, there is no allowance in Islam for a Muslim man to marry more than one woman just because he wants to. The idea that he can rises from pre-existing cultural norms, not from the practice of the Prophet nor the Quran.

What kills me about this and so many other interpretations that have no true support in the text is that they are often taken from ONE verse, and other verses either tempering it or discouraging it are ignored. This is the case with polygyny in Islam. The verse allowing it also limited it, and was revealed at a time when battles left many widows and unaffiliated females that needed protection. It was a form of social welfare for the time. However, Allah strongly and repeatedly warns against the kinds of abuses that have become associated with it. He warns of hellfire for those who exceed His limits. It is an irony that Muslims who consider themselves to be in step with tradition engage so readily in a practice that Allah has, in fact, cautioned them against.

One must always be aware that Muslims are not representative of the Message of the Quran. Sadly, most don't know what the text means, nor do they know the history that contextualizes the words and gives them denotation. I advise caution with websites; unfortunately, many of them are serving a cultural paradigm or a sect rather than the Straight Path. There is soooo much that is believed and defended that cannot be supported by the Quran or Sunnah alone. How much of the Truth we have been able to discern from culture, tradition, and hubris will be our test on the Day of Judgment.

You have your opinions and others have theirs

The thing is, everyone is free to have their own opinions, but not free to have their own facts. What I said is fact, not opinion.

No, what you stated is your opinion of the facts, not just the facts.

It's your opinion that men have to have certain reasons for marrying more than one wife while the Islamic evidence does not back that opinion up. 'Aisha had a fiance' before the prophet but was married to the prophet instead.... she wasn't in dire need of a husband because of war, nor was she a widow.

I do agree that there are conditions that Allah set that a man must follow when marrying more than one wife.... of course, they are no different than the conditions he must follow when marrying the first one to be honest.

Scholars do not make rulings on polygyny based on one verse in the Quran, this is also your opinion and not a fact. They also take into account ahadith showing the Sunnah of the prophet sal allahu alayhi wa salaam and his companions and how they practiced it. This is why I like to read what actual scholars have to say about these matters and not just read it off message boards on the internet

[S and S 12]

Amensty International is not a American thing, it is INTERNATIONAL, they are a watch dog for human rights and countries who violate those human rights. They report on America also, so they have no reason to lie, educated yourself please.

Amnesty International is a worldwide movement of people who campaign for internationally recognized human rights for all.

Our supporters are outraged by human rights abuses but inspired by hope for a better world - so we work to improve human rights through campaigning and international solidarity.

We have more than 2.2 million members and subscribers in more than 150 countries and regions and we coordinate this support to act for justice on a wide range of issues.

I donated to them last year!

[Alhamdulillah 0]

You got to love a country whose president uses young, beautiful, virgin women to guard him and one has even died saving his life. Here is a link with a pic of some of his guards. If Charles could be so kind and post the pic I would appreciate it.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http:/...=image&cd=1

I'm not sure I follow.... are you saying that women in Libya shouldn't have the same right to have the same job in secret service as a man or is it that you think they should be deflowerd before they'd be able to do the job effectively?

Are there no women in the secret service in America?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I would like to make it clear that, contrary to the common perception, there is no allowance in Islam for a Muslim man to marry more than one woman just because he wants to. The idea that he can rises from pre-existing cultural norms, not from the practice of the Prophet nor the Quran.

What kills me about this and so many other interpretations that have no true support in the text is that they are often taken from ONE verse, and other verses either tempering it or discouraging it are ignored. This is the case with polygyny in Islam. The verse allowing it also limited it, and was revealed at a time when battles left many widows and unaffiliated females that needed protection. It was a form of social welfare for the time. However, Allah strongly and repeatedly warns against the kinds of abuses that have become associated with it. He warns of hellfire for those who exceed His limits. It is an irony that Muslims who consider themselves to be in step with tradition engage so readily in a practice that Allah has, in fact, cautioned them against.

One must always be aware that Muslims are not representative of the Message of the Quran. Sadly, most don't know what the text means, nor do they know the history that contextualizes the words and gives them denotation. I advise caution with websites; unfortunately, many of them are serving a cultural paradigm or a sect rather than the Straight Path. There is soooo much that is believed and defended that cannot be supported by the Quran or Sunnah alone. How much of the Truth we have been able to discern from culture, tradition, and hubris will be our test on the Day of Judgment.

You have your opinions and others have theirs

The thing is, everyone is free to have their own opinions, but not free to have their own facts. What I said is fact, not opinion.

No, what you stated is your opinion of the facts, not just the facts.

It's your opinion that men have to have certain reasons for marrying more than one wife while the Islamic evidence does not back that opinion up. 'Aisha had a fiance' before the prophet but was married to the prophet instead.... she wasn't in dire need of a husband because of war, nor was she a widow.

I do agree that there are conditions that Allah set that a man must follow when marrying more than one wife.... of course, they are no different than the conditions he must follow when marrying the first one to be honest.

Scholars do not make rulings on polygyny based on one verse in the Quran, this is also your opinion and not a fact. They also take into account ahadith showing the Sunnah of the prophet sal allahu alayhi wa salaam and his companions and how they practiced it. This is why I like to read what actual scholars have to say about these matters and not just read it off message boards on the internet

It's not my opinion of the facts, it is the facts. The objective evidence does back this up. The problem is, subjective "evidence" is what is promoted by scholars influenced by sects and cultural chauvinism. I know plenty about how scholars make rulings, and one thing they do is take into consideration the traditions and culture of the society that is subject to the legal OPINION (one must not forget that scholars are only posting their opinions too). In this context, many things that Allah has discouraged continued long after the example of the Prophet has been usurped by the needs of those who were funding the scholars. Slavery is another example of this.

I am well educated in the faith, and no novice reading off of websites. I don't offer information based on the paradigms of Salafis, Saudis, Libyans, an oil funded website or any particular cultural norm. I learned the Word as the Word, and am blessed to be able to filter Islam from the hubris of those who claim to speak for Allah. Allah can speak clearly and distinctly for Himself just fine.

The net is for amateurs. May we all be rightly guided.

Edited July 28, 2008 by Virtual wife

[S and S 12]

You got to love a country whose president uses young, beautiful, virgin women to guard him and one has even died saving his life. Here is a link with a pic of some of his guards. If Charles could be so kind and post the pic I would appreciate it.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http:/...=image&cd=1

I'm not sure I follow.... are you saying that women in Libya shouldn't have the same right to have the same job in secret service as a man or is it that you think they should be deflowerd before they'd be able to do the job effectively?

Are there no women in the secret service in America?

I'm saying I find it highly suspect that he has this many beautiful female guards around him all the time because he wants "equality". The fact they all wear make-up, do their hair and nails. These are not characteristics an Islamic nation would want to showcase to the world, at least in my opinion.

[Alhamdulillah 0]

ganja, next time can we just get the cliff notes version?

I enjoyed the read.

May we all be rightly guided.

Ameen.

You got to love a country whose president uses young, beautiful, virgin women to guard him and one has even died saving his life. Here is a link with a pic of some of his guards. If Charles could be so kind and post the pic I would appreciate it.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http:/...=image&cd=1

I'm not sure I follow.... are you saying that women in Libya shouldn't have the same right to have the same job in secret service as a man or is it that you think they should be deflowerd before they'd be able to do the job effectively?

Are there no women in the secret service in America?

I'm saying I find it highly suspect that he has this many beautiful female guards around him all the time because he wants "equality". The fact they all wear make-up, do their hair and nails. These are not characteristics an Islamic nation would want to showcase to the world, at least in my opinion.

Perhaps he's trying to counter the negative image the world has cast on him by showing that women in his country are free to act unislamicly if they so choose

Nonetheless, the majority of women in Libya do not look or act like that while the majority here do so Libya still wins in that regard.

Edited July 28, 2008 by Alhamdulillah

[S and S 12]

ganja, next time can we just get the cliff notes version?

I enjoyed the read.

May we all be rightly guided.

Ameen.

You got to love a country whose president uses young, beautiful, virgin women to guard him and one has even died saving his life. Here is a link with a pic of some of his guards. If Charles could be so kind and post the pic I would appreciate it.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http:/...=image&cd=1

I'm not sure I follow.... are you saying that women in Libya shouldn't have the same right to have the same job in secret service as a man or is it that you think they should be deflowerd before they'd be able to do the job effectively?

Are there no women in the secret service in America?

I'm saying I find it highly suspect that he has this many beautiful female guards around him all the time because he wants "equality". The fact they all wear make-up, do their hair and nails. These are not characteristics an Islamic nation would want to showcase to the world, at least in my opinion.

Perhaps he's trying to counter the negative image the world has cast on him by showing that women in his country are free to act unislamicly if they so choose

Nonetheless, the majority of women in Libya do not look or act like that while the majority here do so Libya still wins in that regard.

Maybe the president of Libya just enjoys beautiful women and doesn't trust men

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

ganja, next time can we just get the cliff notes version?

I enjoyed the read.

May we all be rightly guided.

Ameen.

You got to love a country whose president uses young, beautiful, virgin women to guard him and one has even died saving his life. Here is a link with a pic of some of his guards. If Charles could be so kind and post the pic I would appreciate it.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http:/...=image&cd=1

I'm not sure I follow.... are you saying that women in Libya shouldn't have the same right to have the same job in secret service as a man or is it that you think they should be deflowerd before they'd be able to do the job effectively?

Are there no women in the secret service in America?

I'm saying I find it highly suspect that he has this many beautiful female guards around him all the time because he wants "equality". The fact they all wear make-up, do their hair and nails. These are not characteristics an Islamic nation would want to showcase to the world, at least in my opinion.

Perhaps he's trying to counter the negative image the world has cast on him by showing that women in his country are free to act unislamicly if they so choose

Nonetheless, the majority of women in Libya do not look or act like that while the majority here do so Libya still wins in that regard.

Maybe the president of Libya just enjoys beautiful women and doesn't trust men

Hell if I was the Libyan President I'd want beautiful women as guards too.

[S and S 12]

You know what I love about America? I love that if a woman choses to be conservative, we know she does it because she wants to. No one is making her be that way. You can't say that about most middle eastern countries. Many women are conservative there only because the law or their families force them to. If its not in your heart, it doesn't really count.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

America should ideally be the place where Islam can be Islam instead of Pakistani Islam, Moroccan Islam, Syrian Islam, etc. It's a shame that American Islam is an idea that is threatening to Muslims considering that every other society has been given the chance to adapt to Islam within their own paradigms. America is considered to be in opposition to Islam, so Muslims here are expected to conform to some imported cultural norms rather than to be allowed to develop practice in a manner that allows for the society they live in, not what some left back home.

Edited July 28, 2008 by Virtual wife

[Alhamdulillah 0]

You know what I love about America? I love that if a woman choses to be conservative, we know she does it because she wants to. No one is making her be that way. You can't say that about most middle eastern countries. Many women are conservative there only because the law or their families force them to. If its not in your heart, it doesn't really count.

What's great about America is you can spend years teaching your children to be modest and righteous and all they have to do is walk at the door and into their school to unlearn everything you've taught them because no one holds the other ppl around them accountable for their immodesty like they do in conservative muslim countries.

[S and S 12]

You know what I love about America? I love that if a woman choses to be conservative, we know she does it because she wants to. No one is making her be that way. You can't say that about most middle eastern countries. Many women are conservative there only because the law or their families force them to. If its not in your heart, it doesn't really count.

What's great about America is you can spend years teaching your children to be modest and righteous and all they have to do is walk at the door and into their school to unlearn everything you've taught them because no one holds the other ppl around them accountable for their immodesty like they do in conservative muslim countries.

My family has had many women who grew up conservative and waited until marriage for their spouse. They were surrounded by the same things as everyone else. They went to public schools, grew up in non-conservative neighborhoods, etc. Yet they didn't follow the examples they saw around them because their parents were careful with them, not threatening, but disciplined in the right way. Their parents set good examples for them and supported them. The best people can have one bad apple out of their kids, but if all of a person's kids turned out bad. That reflects on the parent, not the society.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

You know what I love about America? I love that if a woman choses to be conservative, we know she does it because she wants to. No one is making her be that way. You can't say that about most middle eastern countries. Many women are conservative there only because the law or their families force them to. If its not in your heart, it doesn't really count.

What's great about America is you can spend years teaching your children to be modest and righteous and all they have to do is walk at the door and into their school to unlearn everything you've taught them because no one holds the other ppl around them accountable for their immodesty like they do in conservative muslim countries.

The problem is, sis, that conservative Muslim countries don't guide with beautiful words, as the Prophet directed. They do it with shame and force, disregarding the notion that Allah is the final Judge. There is a problem with honor in the ME, in particular, in that the honor of men is defined by the behavior of women. Any man who is perceived to be not in control of "his" women loses face and he must act decisively to regain face. That leads to acts that are clearly misguided and unIslamic.

Edited July 28, 2008 by Virtual wife