Its Caturday MENA!

[~Jackie~ 30]

Let's not fight today. Nagi...pm me please if you are available. Someone needs prayer and they might not even know it yet.

jJ

[~*Dorothy*~ 2]

Sorry but tht was a really weird post and did not help at all in your argument. You seem like you are rationalizing the hitting and that is sad. ALthough multiple wives were in Bible, it does not mean it was condoned by God...Americans dont "prefer extramarital affairs" but it happens. I'd rather it be that way than be the one to allow my husband to have relations with anohter when I know about it. The latter is more of a fall from grace whereas the previous is an allowance and acceptance of it...anyway or either way it is disgusting. I dont know what your deal is you showcase ur relgion in your signature and now complain.

I see, so righteous men in the bible did things that God did NOT condone..... OK.

I'm explaining what I understand it to mean.

I don't put myself above God to make up my own laws to live by judging by what I prefer or not as I am a human being who is incapable of seeing the bigger picture. God made the laws as He saw fit.

I find American culture of sex, drugs, drinking, stealing and killing to be disgusting.... much more so than a man having more than one wife.

I'm muslim.... the fact that I am doesn't mean I have to be happy when I see my religion forever trash-talked on this forum.

I've found that there is sex, drugs, drinking, stealing and killing in the middle east too, or at least the four muslim countries I've been to. For that matter, I believe those things are in every country on earth. One country hiding its sins better than another doesn't mean its a better country. Don't even let us get started on the exploits of the Saudi Royal family and their exploits and they are supposed to be from the most holy place in Islam of all. All countries have their good and their bad. I try to see both. Yet, I also thank God I am an American and a muslim.

S & S - thank you for bringing civility back into the discussion of Islam. I think that it makes a huge difference to those who want to learn more.

[~*Dorothy*~ 2]

Now I am more curious about this progressive Islam Noura spoke about. So there is a form of Islam that is progressive and doesn't accept some of these things and not all Muslims have to? What does it mean to you? They studied it with scholars and have a better understanding?

Try starting with this website http://www.progressivemuslims.org/

or this one http://www.mpvusa.org/

Thank you MBP - very valuable info :thumbs:

[mybackpages 0]

Now I am more curious about this progressive Islam Noura spoke about. So there is a form of Islam that is progressive and doesn't accept some of these things and not all Muslims have to? What does it mean to you? They studied it with scholars and have a better understanding?

Try starting with this website http://www.progressivemuslims.org/

or this one http://www.mpvusa.org/

Thank you MBP - very valuable info

you're welcome. There also both have yahoo groups if anyone is interested.

[Alhamdulillah 0]

I disagree that it's not culturally accepted.

If it were only a matter of how to adjust our laws then they wouldn't prosecute violators so harshly. A man can live with two women and not marry either one of them... or marry one and not the other but still live with both and it's perfectly OK here, legally. That's disgusting.

If it were culturally acceptable, then there would not be a negative stigma associated with it. How many people get divorced over affairs? it is a named legal reason to do so. WHat I hear you saying over and over is that we are ALL OK with this idea of affairs and that any American can have an affair on any other American and we all accept this as fine and good. Right? Then why is it called cheating? Why do marriages break up over it? Why isn't everyone down at the swinger's club? If that is your perception of American marriage, I wonder where you grew up! I'm from "sin city" and even the most amoral people realized it wasn't the majority culture no matter that they thought it should be.

Also, changing the entirety of the legal code is not an easy thing to do. you would have to change the very social nature of the country. The above is only accepted as deviant and marginal IF all parties are in agreement. You have people who do this, even Muslims, in the US.

I would venture to say that there are a LOT of swingers in this country LOL. Maybe a lot more than you'd like to think or believe.

All marriages do not break up when one of the spouses has an affair.... in fact there are many who will look the other way or forgive the cheater when they find out about it.

I find it strange that a man having two wives is looked down on because he sleeps with both women during the same time period (not at the same time) but it's OK, openly accepted and glorified in this country if he's had 20+ partners (and married none) before marrying his wife.

Every country has corruption but even the most corrupted muslim country in the world is better a thousand times than the US.... it's not accurate or fair at all to say that muslim countries are just as bad as the US because, if that was true, they would also have an epidemic of unwed teenage mothers like we have here.... or strung out druggies on street corners.... or 16,000+ deaths each year due to drunk driving. Disgusting....

[sandinista! 1,816]

Ya I

I wonder why you'd marry someone who follows a religion you hate? Oh well.... Que Sera, Sera!!

I wanted to correct that too! There's so many times I want to correct typos/misspellings that I see on here (cuz I'm ####### abt that stuff when it happens repeatedly).

Good question..........

Does that help answer the question. Do you muslimias seriously believe I hate Islam because I question it? And why doesn't anyone answer those questions for me about the several wives & beating wives acceptance? Everytime I bring it up it becomes a moot point on here. What I don't understand is how someone who isn't raised that way comes to accept those beliefs?

You don't understand about men being allowed more than one wife because you live in america and have been told your whole life that it's bad and wrong when it's not. If you're christian you should know that prophets and other important ppl in the bible had multiple wives so I don't see what the big issue is or why American women make such a huge deal about it. I understand we're jealous.... I am too but it's taken to whole new levels with American women threatening divorce and other such punishments if a man does something Allah has allowed him to do. I'd much rather my husband have another wife than to have an affair but in America affairs are widely accepted while having more than one wife is illegal.... it's a crappy culture that prefers men to have affairs instead of marrying the other woman.

i don't get what the above has to do with islam. none of the prophet's multiple marriages were ever out of lust, or to keep him from having an "affair". not that he didn't feel genuine love and affection towards the women he was married to, but the marriages were born out of those women's need to have a husband to help support them when there was a shortage of available men because of war, etc.

[Alhamdulillah 0]

Speaking of corrupted muslim countries..... why do you suppose they are so corrupted today? Because of American influence..... they see our movies and TV shows and want to follow the American dream of being as trashy as you can possibly be n'autho billah!

But with all this, Islam is bad because it allows more than one wife! Pfft! Whatever.

I will agree totally that the US and the West in general have played a hand in the corruption of many Muslim countries, but they have been committing immoral acts long before there was a United States. who do you blame for that?

Shaytaan has been tempting ppl with evil since the first man but the US has played a major role recently as acting as his agent in spreading his corruption to all ends of the earth, far and wide. It didn't begin with the US even.... before the US other western-style socities played their own roles in creating the world we know today. IMHO, the US is merely the end result of all that corruption heaped one on top of the other for centuries.

However, in the end, no man can blame another for his sins.... Allah will hold us each responsible for our own sins.

Interesting that the Bible was brought up.

2 Cor. 11:3-4: 3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may

somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes to you and

preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.

You know that is going to start a fight Nagi. I'm just sad I have to now and might miss it

Why would that start a fight?

[Alhamdulillah 0]

Ya I

I wonder why you'd marry someone who follows a religion you hate? Oh well.... Que Sera, Sera!!

I wanted to correct that too! There's so many times I want to correct typos/misspellings that I see on here (cuz I'm ####### abt that stuff when it happens repeatedly).

Good question..........

Does that help answer the question. Do you muslimias seriously believe I hate Islam because I question it? And why doesn't anyone answer those questions for me about the several wives & beating wives acceptance? Everytime I bring it up it becomes a moot point on here. What I don't understand is how someone who isn't raised that way comes to accept those beliefs?

You don't understand about men being allowed more than one wife because you live in america and have been told your whole life that it's bad and wrong when it's not. If you're christian you should know that prophets and other important ppl in the bible had multiple wives so I don't see what the big issue is or why American women make such a huge deal about it. I understand we're jealous.... I am too but it's taken to whole new levels with American women threatening divorce and other such punishments if a man does something Allah has allowed him to do. I'd much rather my husband have another wife than to have an affair but in America affairs are widely accepted while having more than one wife is illegal.... it's a crappy culture that prefers men to have affairs instead of marrying the other woman.

i don't get what the above has to do with islam. none of the prophet's multiple marriages were ever out of lust, or to keep him from having an "affair". not that he didn't feel genuine love and affection towards the women he was married to, but the marriages were born out of those women's need to have a husband to help support them when there was a shortage of available men because of war, etc.

No, not all of his marriages, or the multiple marriages of the sahaba, were for that reason.

Nonetheless, I'm not saying that's the reason for a man to have more than one wife.... what I'm saying is that the culture that prefers the evil over the righteous shouldn't be used to judge the laws in Islam.

[SaadBell 0]

Every country has corruption but even the most corrupted muslim country in the world is better a thousand times than the US.... it's not accurate or fair at all to say that muslim countries are just as bad as the US because, if that was true, they would also have an epidemic of unwed teenage mothers like we have here.... or strung out druggies on street corners.... or 16,000+ deaths each year due to drunk driving. Disgusting....

Than if you feel so much hate towards America, why bother getting a visa? I am just don't have words, I guess you agree with stoning as a way of dealing with sin. If you have an unwed mother in some of these countries you won't hear about it, or you see her being stoned to death. If you hate America you are free to leave at any time, and go to a place you will be happier.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I would like to make it clear that, contrary to the common perception, there is no allowance in Islam for a Muslim man to marry more than one woman just because he wants to. The idea that he can rises from pre-existing cultural norms, not from the practice of the Prophet nor the Quran.

What kills me about this and so many other interpretations that have no true support in the text is that they are often taken from ONE verse, and other verses either tempering it or discouraging it are ignored. This is the case with polygyny in Islam. The verse allowing it also limited it, and was revealed at a time when battles left many widows and unaffiliated females that needed protection. It was a form of social welfare for the time. However, Allah strongly and repeatedly warns against the kinds of abuses that have become associated with it. He warns of hellfire for those who exceed His limits. It is an irony that Muslims who consider themselves to be in step with tradition engage so readily in a practice that Allah has, in fact, cautioned them against.

One must always be aware that Muslims are not representative of the Message of the Quran. Sadly, most don't know what the text means, nor do they know the history that contextualizes the words and gives them denotation. I advise caution with websites; unfortunately, many of them are serving a cultural paradigm or a sect rather than the Straight Path. There is soooo much that is believed and defended that cannot be supported by the Quran or Sunnah alone. How much of the Truth we have been able to discern from culture, tradition, and hubris will be our test on the Day of Judgment.

Edited July 27, 2008 by Virtual wife

[S and S 12]

Ya I

I wonder why you'd marry someone who follows a religion you hate? Oh well.... Que Sera, Sera!!

I wanted to correct that too! There's so many times I want to correct typos/misspellings that I see on here (cuz I'm ####### abt that stuff when it happens repeatedly).

Good question..........

Does that help answer the question. Do you muslimias seriously believe I hate Islam because I question it? And why doesn't anyone answer those questions for me about the several wives & beating wives acceptance? Everytime I bring it up it becomes a moot point on here. What I don't understand is how someone who isn't raised that way comes to accept those beliefs?

You don't understand about men being allowed more than one wife because you live in america and have been told your whole life that it's bad and wrong when it's not. If you're christian you should know that prophets and other important ppl in the bible had multiple wives so I don't see what the big issue is or why American women make such a huge deal about it. I understand we're jealous.... I am too but it's taken to whole new levels with American women threatening divorce and other such punishments if a man does something Allah has allowed him to do. I'd much rather my husband have another wife than to have an affair but in America affairs are widely accepted while having more than one wife is illegal.... it's a crappy culture that prefers men to have affairs instead of marrying the other woman.

i don't get what the above has to do with islam. none of the prophet's multiple marriages were ever out of lust, or to keep him from having an "affair". not that he didn't feel genuine love and affection towards the women he was married to, but the marriages were born out of those women's need to have a husband to help support them when there was a shortage of available men because of war, etc.

No, not all of his marriages, or the multiple marriages of the sahaba, were for that reason.

Nonetheless, I'm not saying that's the reason for a man to have more than one wife.... what I'm saying is that the culture that prefers the evil over the righteous shouldn't be used to judge the laws in Islam.

I've heard of lots of cases of adultry in the middle east. I found it to be as common as here in America, just better hidden. Even the drama shows in Arabic include issues of adultry. The advantage of marrying multiple women doesn't seem to help the middle east at all.

[RAKASA 0]

I would like to make it clear that, contrary to the common perception, there is no allowance in Islam for a Muslim man to marry more than one woman just because he wants to. The idea that he can rises from pre-existing cultural norms, not from the practice of the Prophet nor the Quran.

What kills me about this and so many other interpretations that have no true support in the text is that they are often taken from ONE verse, and other verses either tempering it or discouraging it are ignored. This is the case with polygyny in Islam. The verse allowing it also limited it, and was revealed at a time when battles left many widows and unaffiliated females that needed protection. It was a form of social welfare for the time. However, Allah strongly and repeatedly warns against the kinds of abuses that have become associated with it. He warns of hellfire for those who exceed His limits. It is an irony that Muslims who consider themselves to be in step with tradition engage so readily in a practice that Allah has, in fact, cautioned them against.

One must always be aware that Muslims are not representative of the Message of the Quran. Sadly, most don't know what the text means, nor do they know the history that contextualizes the words and gives them denotation. I advise caution with websites; unfortunately, many of them are serving a cultural paradigm or a sect rather than the Straight Path. There is soooo much that is believed and defended that cannot be supported by the Quran or Sunnah alone. How much of the Truth we have been able to discern from culture, tradition, and hubris will be our test on the Day of Judgment.

:thumbs:

[Nasturtium 500]

Why would that start a fight?

Because it is regarding Islam.

We are going to have to agree to disagree about affairs in the west because clearly neither one of us are going to change our POV!

[Ban Hammer 13,345]

Speaking of corrupted muslim countries..... why do you suppose they are so corrupted today? Because of American influence..... they see our movies and TV shows and want to follow the American dream of being as trashy as you can possibly be n'autho billah!

But with all this, Islam is bad because it allows more than one wife! Pfft! Whatever.

I will agree totally that the US and the West in general have played a hand in the corruption of many Muslim countries, but they have been committing immoral acts long before there was a United States. who do you blame for that?

[Alhamdulillah 0]

I would like to make it clear that, contrary to the common perception, there is no allowance in Islam for a Muslim man to marry more than one woman just because he wants to. The idea that he can rises from pre-existing cultural norms, not from the practice of the Prophet nor the Quran.

What kills me about this and so many other interpretations that have no true support in the text is that they are often taken from ONE verse, and other verses either tempering it or discouraging it are ignored. This is the case with polygyny in Islam. The verse allowing it also limited it, and was revealed at a time when battles left many widows and unaffiliated females that needed protection. It was a form of social welfare for the time. However, Allah strongly and repeatedly warns against the kinds of abuses that have become associated with it. He warns of hellfire for those who exceed His limits. It is an irony that Muslims who consider themselves to be in step with tradition engage so readily in a practice that Allah has, in fact, cautioned them against.

One must always be aware that Muslims are not representative of the Message of the Quran. Sadly, most don't know what the text means, nor do they know the history that contextualizes the words and gives them denotation. I advise caution with websites; unfortunately, many of them are serving a cultural paradigm or a sect rather than the Straight Path. There is soooo much that is believed and defended that cannot be supported by the Quran or Sunnah alone. How much of the Truth we have been able to discern from culture, tradition, and hubris will be our test on the Day of Judgment.

You have your opinions and others have theirs

Every country has corruption but even the most corrupted muslim country in the world is better a thousand times than the US.... it's not accurate or fair at all to say that muslim countries are just as bad as the US because, if that was true, they would also have an epidemic of unwed teenage mothers like we have here.... or strung out druggies on street corners.... or 16,000+ deaths each year due to drunk driving. Disgusting....

Than if you feel so much hate towards America, why bother getting a visa? I am just don't have words, I guess you agree with stoning as a way of dealing with sin. If you have an unwed mother in some of these countries you won't hear about it, or you see her being stoned to death. If you hate America you are free to leave at any time, and go to a place you will be happier.

I don't need a visa.... I am a citizen.

I am not free to leave..... since you don't know me or my situation you are welcome to keep your opinons to yourself.