Its Caturday MENA!

[S and S 12]

ok, what's a "siwak"

It's a small stick we use to clean our mouths.

so basically, the husband can swat his wife with a toothbrush?

that's not gonna hurt - unless he's got bad breathe.

[ak3 0]

Sorry but tht was a really weird post and did not help at all in your argument. You seem like you are rationalizing the hitting and that is sad. ALthough multiple wives were in Bible, it does not mean it was condoned by God...Americans dont "prefer extramarital affairs" but it happens. I'd rather it be that way than be the one to allow my husband to have relations with anohter when I know about it. The latter is more of a fall from grace whereas the previous is an allowance and acceptance of it...anyway or either way it is disgusting. I dont know what your deal is you showcase ur relgion in your signature and now complain.

[Alhamdulillah 0]

Sorry but tht was a really weird post and did not help at all in your argument. You seem like you are rationalizing the hitting and that is sad. ALthough multiple wives were in Bible, it does not mean it was condoned by God...Americans dont "prefer extramarital affairs" but it happens. I'd rather it be that way than be the one to allow my husband to have relations with anohter when I know about it. The latter is more of a fall from grace whereas the previous is an allowance and acceptance of it...anyway or either way it is disgusting. I dont know what your deal is you showcase ur relgion in your signature and now complain.

I see, so righteous men in the bible did things that God did NOT condone..... OK.

I'm explaining what I understand it to mean.

I don't put myself above God to make up my own laws to live by judging by what I prefer or not as I am a human being who is incapable of seeing the bigger picture. God made the laws as He saw fit.

I find American culture of sex, drugs, drinking, stealing and killing to be disgusting.... much more so than a man having more than one wife.

I'm muslim.... the fact that I am doesn't mean I have to be happy when I see my religion forever trash-talked on this forum. eta: this is why I and other practicing muslims have left this forum in the past.

Edited July 27, 2008 by Alhamdulillah

[Nasturtium 500]

I didn't reply to a comment asking why these things were allowed at first.... I replied to a comment that she didn't want to raise her kids in Islam because it's a bad religion since it allows these two things she mentioned. It's one thing when someone asks questions because they want to learn or understand.... it's another thing when women are forever bitching and moaning about how horrible Islam is because of all these rulings that they don't understand.

Lashing out at someone, though, or characterizing them as the above bolded (directly or indirectly) doesn't exactly help your case. It reinforces the original person's ideas. Sometimes it's better just to take a step back and breathe, and let things be. If you don't suppose someone is ever going to change their opinion, then it is somewhat of a waste of time to confront them anyway, especially if you see someone else (or the majority of people) are stepping up for what you believe-- criticism doesn't help the cause at that point. She stated something which she was bashed about last time as well, and didn't receive an answer to her satisfaction, obviously. This time she is getting varied responses and invites to talk and links. One negative reaction can over-ride 20 positive reactions. Look at the media-- this is what they live for and know so well. A star can donate countless dollars, time, and whatnot to many good causes but the second they fall drunk out fo a car, they are known for nothing but that one action.

[Nothing1234 2]

Ya I

I wonder why you'd marry someone who follows a religion you hate? Oh well.... Que Sera, Sera!!

I wanted to correct that too! There's so many times I want to correct typos/misspellings that I see on here (cuz I'm ####### abt that stuff when it happens repeatedly).

Good question..........

Does that help answer the question. Do you muslimias seriously believe I hate Islam because I question it? And why doesn't anyone answer those questions for me about the several wives & beating wives acceptance? Everytime I bring it up it becomes a moot point on here. What I don't understand is how someone who isn't raised that way comes to accept those beliefs?

You don't understand about men being allowed more than one wife because you live in america and have been told your whole life that it's bad and wrong when it's not. If you're christian you should know that prophets and other important ppl in the bible had multiple wives so I don't see what the big issue is or why American women make such a huge deal about it. I understand we're jealous.... I am too but it's taken to whole new levels with American women threatening divorce and other such punishments if a man does something Allah has allowed him to do. I'd much rather my husband have another wife than to have an affair but in America affairs are widely accepted while having more than one wife is illegal.... it's a crappy culture that prefers men to have affairs instead of marrying the other woman.

As far as "wife-beating" it's not allowed. Americans love to over exaggerate things and make them seem worse than they are.... this is NO different. Allah says in the Quran that a man can lightly hit his wife if she's unruly and he's tried everything else to bring her to the correct way and failed but even that "hitting" has to be lightly and with something no bigger than a siwak if you know what that is.... it doesn't hurt! And then it can only be done if it would actually help her to realize what she's doing is bad.... if not he'd be better to just divorce her and leave her to her evil ways. The prophet sal allahu alayhi wa salaam discouraged men from hitting their wives many times. I can assure you that my ex-non-muslim-husband had absolutely nothing preventing him from beating me regularly.... and when he beat me it was a true "beating" and not a little slap on the wrist.

Alhamdulillah, please be patient with her. She is not muslim and doesn't understand the differences in religion or culture. Wouldn't it be better to explain Islamic practices in a nice manner where it makes her feel more encouraged to study Islam than to brow beat her. Sure these would have been good questions to ask before she married a muslim, but it is too late for that now. We should support her and encourage her to learn why things are done in Islam they way they are. The prophet (peace be upon him) never spoke harshly to people trying to understand Islam, even if they spoke harshly to him. Please think of the ways of the prophet (peace be upon him) as an example of how to help others in understanding.

[S and S 12]

Sorry but tht was a really weird post and did not help at all in your argument. You seem like you are rationalizing the hitting and that is sad. ALthough multiple wives were in Bible, it does not mean it was condoned by God...Americans dont "prefer extramarital affairs" but it happens. I'd rather it be that way than be the one to allow my husband to have relations with anohter when I know about it. The latter is more of a fall from grace whereas the previous is an allowance and acceptance of it...anyway or either way it is disgusting. I dont know what your deal is you showcase ur relgion in your signature and now complain.

I see, so righteous men in the bible did things that God did NOT condone..... OK.

I'm explaining what I understand it to mean.

I don't put myself above God to make up my own laws to live by judging by what I prefer or not as I am a human being who is incapable of seeing the bigger picture. God made the laws as He saw fit.

I find American culture of sex, drugs, drinking, stealing and killing to be disgusting.... much more so than a man having more than one wife.

I'm muslim.... the fact that I am doesn't mean I have to be happy when I see my religion forever trash-talked on this forum.

I've found that there is sex, drugs, drinking, stealing and killing in the middle east too, or at least the four muslim countries I've been to. For that matter, I believe those things are in every country on earth. One country hiding its sins better than another doesn't mean its a better country. Don't even let us get started on the exploits of the Saudi Royal family and their exploits and they are supposed to be from the most holy place in Islam of all. All countries have their good and their bad. I try to see both. Yet, I also thank God I am an American and a muslim.

[Nasturtium 500]

I see, so righteous men in the bible did things that God did NOT condone..... OK.

Yes.

And I do agree-- extramarital affairs are not preferred in our society any more than polygamy... but.. you do have a point in that it is a cultural familarity moreso than polygamy (or in this case polygyny). That doesn't make it accepted. Both are considered disgusting. I think the latter is met with more revulsion because it is a permanent state of having an affair and you are forced to deal with it and accept it as being just as valid (speaking from the cultural perspective, not from your perspective on it of course. i acknowledge polygamy is the preferred form of marriage across the world, although monogamy is the most practiced due to varying restrictions (like Islam's request of ebing able to support muslitple wives fully-- even if it were something encouraged, it would erquire the man to be of a certain wealth level before he could obtain this status if he was to follow the) rules.

[Alhamdulillah 0]

Sorry but tht was a really weird post and did not help at all in your argument. You seem like you are rationalizing the hitting and that is sad. ALthough multiple wives were in Bible, it does not mean it was condoned by God...Americans dont "prefer extramarital affairs" but it happens. I'd rather it be that way than be the one to allow my husband to have relations with anohter when I know about it. The latter is more of a fall from grace whereas the previous is an allowance and acceptance of it...anyway or either way it is disgusting. I dont know what your deal is you showcase ur relgion in your signature and now complain.

I see, so righteous men in the bible did things that God did NOT condone..... OK.

I'm explaining what I understand it to mean.

I don't put myself above God to make up my own laws to live by judging by what I prefer or not as I am a human being who is incapable of seeing the bigger picture. God made the laws as He saw fit.

I find American culture of sex, drugs, drinking, stealing and killing to be disgusting.... much more so than a man having more than one wife.

I'm muslim.... the fact that I am doesn't mean I have to be happy when I see my religion forever trash-talked on this forum.

I've found that there is sex, drugs, drinking, stealing and killing in the middle east too, or at least the four muslim countries I've been to. For that matter, I believe those things are in every country on earth. One country hiding its sins better than another doesn't mean its a better country. Don't even let us get started on the exploits of the Saudi Royal family and their exploits and they are supposed to be from the most holy place in Islam of all. All countries have their good and their bad. I try to see both. Yet, I also thank God I am an American and a muslim.

I agree no one is perfect.... everyone sins but it's American culture to do these disgusting things and it's accepted and in most cases legal. At least in true muslim countries it's not allowed and those who do it have to hide it. They can come to America and do it in the freaking streets with praise from the public audience!

It's from Islam to hide your sins and not expose what Allah has hidden for you.

Speaking of corrupted muslim countries..... why do you suppose they are so corrupted today? Because of American influence..... they see our movies and TV shows and want to follow the American dream of being as trashy as you can possibly be n'autho billah!

But with all this, Islam is bad because it allows more than one wife! Pfft! Whatever.

[Alhamdulillah 0]

I see, so righteous men in the bible did things that God did NOT condone..... OK.

Yes.

And I do agree-- extramarital affairs are not preferred in our society any more than polygamy... but.. you do have a point in that it is a cultural familarity moreso than polygamy (or in this case polygyny). That doesn't make it accepted. Both are considered disgusting. I think the latter is met with more revulsion because it is a permanent state of having an affair and you are forced to deal with it and accept it as being just as valid (speaking from the cultural perspective, not from your perspective on it of course. i acknowledge polygamy is the preferred form of marriage across the world, although monogamy is the most practiced due to varying restrictions (like Islam's request of ebing able to support muslitple wives fully-- even if it were something encouraged, it would erquire the man to be of a certain wealth level before he could obtain this status if he was to follow the) rules.

If a man has an extra-marital affair with a woman for 20 years it's OK in the US.... no laws preventing it and even if there are some still on the books they'll never be enforced but IF a man takes responsibilty for the woman he wants to have a relationship with, other than his first wife, and marries her then he's looking at serious prison time. Why is it better in this corrupted society to make whores of women than wives???

[Ban Hammer 13,345]

personally, i fail to see why polygamy/polyandry lacks the support gay marriage enjoys in this country.

Edited July 27, 2008 by charlesandnessa

[S and S 12]

I see, so righteous men in the bible did things that God did NOT condone..... OK.

Yes.

And I do agree-- extramarital affairs are not preferred in our society any more than polygamy... but.. you do have a point in that it is a cultural familarity moreso than polygamy (or in this case polygyny). That doesn't make it accepted. Both are considered disgusting. I think the latter is met with more revulsion because it is a permanent state of having an affair and you are forced to deal with it and accept it as being just as valid (speaking from the cultural perspective, not from your perspective on it of course. i acknowledge polygamy is the preferred form of marriage across the world, although monogamy is the most practiced due to varying restrictions (like Islam's request of ebing able to support muslitple wives fully-- even if it were something encouraged, it would erquire the man to be of a certain wealth level before he could obtain this status if he was to follow the) rules.

If a man has an extra-marital affair with a woman for 20 years it's OK in the US.... no laws preventing it and even if there are some still on the books they'll never be enforced but IF a man takes responsibilty for the woman he wants to have a relationship with, other than his first wife, and marries her then he's looking at serious prison time. Why is it better in this corrupted society to make whores of women than wives???

Why is it okay for a man to sleep with another woman at all? Yet a woman does not have the same option legally or islamically? I stopped trying to figure that one out.

personally, i fail to see see polygamy/polyandry lacks the support gay marriage enjoys in this country.

Good point! That is strange.

[Nasturtium 500]

I agree no one is perfect.... everyone sins but it's American culture to do these disgusting things and it's accepted and in most cases legal. At least in true muslim countries it's not allowed and those who do it have to hide it. They can come to America and do it in the freaking streets with praise from the public audience!

It's from Islam to hide your sins and not expose what Allah has hidden for you.

Speaking of corrupted muslim countries..... why do you suppose they are so corrupted today? Because of American influence..... they see our movies and TV shows and want to follow the American dream of being as trashy as you can possibly be n'autho billah!

But with all this, Islam is bad because it allows more than one wife! Pfft! Whatever.

Sorry, "the west" did not invent extra-marital affairs, drinking, drugs, etc. They were doing that before our movies ever came out. It's even regulated in your Qu'ran, which means they knew about it.

[Alhamdulillah 0]

Why is it okay for a man to sleep with another woman at all? Yet a woman does not have the same option legally or islamically? I stopped trying to figure that one out.

Well, legally in the US she has every "right" to sleep with as many men other than her husband that she pleases.... women's liberation at it's peak! See what good muslim women across the world have to look forward to when the US comes to free them from oppression and liberate them???

Why is it ok for men and women to sleep together if they're married? Because marriage makes it permissable in Islam and in Islam he's allowed to have up to four wives.

I agree no one is perfect.... everyone sins but it's American culture to do these disgusting things and it's accepted and in most cases legal. At least in true muslim countries it's not allowed and those who do it have to hide it. They can come to America and do it in the freaking streets with praise from the public audience!

It's from Islam to hide your sins and not expose what Allah has hidden for you.

Speaking of corrupted muslim countries..... why do you suppose they are so corrupted today? Because of American influence..... they see our movies and TV shows and want to follow the American dream of being as trashy as you can possibly be n'autho billah!

But with all this, Islam is bad because it allows more than one wife! Pfft! Whatever.

Sorry, "the west" did not invent extra-marital affairs, drinking, drugs, etc. They were doing that before our movies ever came out. It's even regulated in your Qu'ran, which means they knew about it.

It wasn't widespread like it is today.

[Nasturtium 500]

If a man has an extra-marital affair with a woman for 20 years it's OK in the US.... no laws preventing it and even if there are some still on the books they'll never be enforced but IF a man takes responsibilty for the woman he wants to have a relationship with, other than his first wife, and marries her then he's looking at serious prison time. Why is it better in this corrupted society to make whores of women than wives???

It may be legal but it is not culturally acceptable. As to why polygamy is not allowed-- well one, it's culturally unacceptable to the point where it is not up for change at this point, and two it would likely involve a change to our legal codes ebcause we have difficulty at this point with that the way things are set up. Our default inheritence, benefits (who is covered under the husband's insurance? All of the wives and kids? insurance would not want that to happen), what if the first wife was the basis for insurance? etc are a one-spouse situation. i think that's why gay marriage is making more headway than polygamy, even though it's obvious polygamy is an older tradition. You'd probably have to restructure our society to re-position the male as central and dominant figure and then either make all the incomes of the wives independant and the one male to be the only commonality, or just remove the wives from wealth and make the male one commonality. I am sure there are other ways to do it, but for simple ease of legality that seems like the way to go. You couldn't really make peopleco-equal in the situation because then you would end up with situations where a wife had to pay allimony to a divorced wife, etc if that should happen... so it would involve basically, something like teh implementation of Sharia which is a closed system for this amongst other things-- which Muslims would find OK, but the majority of people here would object to having.

personally, i fail to see see polygamy/polyandry lacks the support gay marriage enjoys in this country.

I think ebcause it would involve a total change to our legal system. gay marriage, although far less traditional, is still a one-spouse system. That's all I can figure, honestly.

[Nasturtium 500]

It wasn't widespread like it is today.

How do you know? Archaeologically, there is plenty of evidence for the making of alcohol in "Islamic" countries and regimes. This ended and began and ended and began depending on who took over. Unfortunately, no one took a really good survey of sexual habits, drugs, and whatnot over the past centuries. I don't think that is a claim anyone can make. I think society was more CLOSED to the idea of it being public, but I would be hesitant to say it is more widespread or not. Unless you had evidence to the contrary or a first-hand witness, then you are only operating on the faith that it was so.