Affiliations and question about race

[amnonbabs 0]

Ok, I have 2 questions and I know they are kinda dumb but I really want to get my application right:

1.- Part 10 (B) Affiliations= what kind of affiliations or groups do they mean?, I worked a job last year that had a Union, is that what they mean?, am I supposed to write it down? any other example of affiliation?

2.- Part 5 (E) = In question D they ask if I am Hispanic or Latino, I said YES, in question E they ask for my race.....?, white, asian, black, american Indian, Native Hawaiian.... I'm none of those, what am I supposed to write down?.

Thank you for being patient you guys, again, I know my questions are dumb and I appreciate you taking the time to read this.

[NickD 202]

Ok, I have 2 questions and I know they are kinda dumb but I really want to get my application right:

1.- Part 10 (B) Affiliations= what kind of affiliations or groups do they mean?, I worked a job last year that had a Union, is that what they mean?, am I supposed to write it down? any other example of affiliation?

2.- Part 5 (E) = In question D they ask if I am Hispanic or Latino, I said YES, in question E they ask for my race.....?, white, asian, black, american Indian, Native Hawaiian.... I'm none of those, what am I supposed to write down?.

Thank you for being patient you guys, again, I know my questions are dumb and I appreciate you taking the time to read this.

"Hispanic, There are a number of words denoting persons who trace their origins to a Spanish-speaking country or culture. Hispanic is the broadest of these terms, encompassing all Spanish-speaking peoples in both hemispheres and emphasizing the common denominator of language between communities that sometimes have little else in common. It is widely used in both official and unofficial contexts and is entirely acceptable, although like the term Spanish American, it has occasionally been criticized as unduly emphasizing the role of European influences in shaping ethnic identity to the neglect of indigenous cultures. Latino is also in wide use, but it is somewhat less formal in most contexts and is generally restricted to persons of Latin-American descent.

Latino, 1. A Latin American. 2. A person of Hispanic, especially Latin-American, descent."

Whether you are Hispanic or not was a tricky question for me as my wife speaks both Spanish and English and I have heard the word Hispanic used in a negative racial way many times by Americans, but she was born in Colombia so we selected yes to that question. But it got me wondering with the hundreds of different cultures and languages in this world, why are they only asking if you are Hispanic or not? In walking the streets in Colombia and Venezuela, not any different than walking the streets of Chicago or New York.

Technically, they is only one race with humans, the ** sapien. But some tend to classify race by geographical location. But in scientific terms considering differences in both physical and DNA differences, the number of different races equals the number of ** sapiens on this planet, everyone is different.

1. White

2. Black or African American

3. American Indian and Alaskan Native

4. East or Central Asian

5. South Asian

6. Native Hawaiian and Pacific Islander

7. Latino

8. Arab-American/Middle Eastern--If Latinos are, so are we!

9. Australian

10. Southeast Asian

I actually never met a white person in the true literal sense of the color white, but in the old south they had classified rest rooms as black or white, very illiterate by a group of very racists people, but white is just the opposite of black on the color spectrum, there really isn't such a thing as a white person. Whoever wrote that question had a very poor educational background. Which restroom does one select if they have a nice tan?

Since you have to supply two color passport photos of yourself, maybe you can insert a separate sheet of paper and ask the USCIS officer to select from the choices given as to which race you are. I have never seen a form before asking for race with white as a choice or black for that matter. But with my wife of German decent with green eyes, light reddish brown hair, and fair skin that burns easily in the sun, hesitatingly checked white, but felt like an ### when doing so. Made me feel like a southern racist or a member of the KKK.

At the advice of my immigration attorney listed all the charitable fund raising organizations my wife belonged to, it seems this question should be directed toward organizations that are anti-American and for the purpose of destroying our government and way of life, but it uses the word any, so would list your union.

Normally with a form like this, should be able to answer the questions in minutes, but took hours in pondering, you will have more questions. I never heard of anyone making an infopass appointment in gaining assistance in filling out this form, but maybe not a such a bad idea.

[lucyrich 20]

Regarding the organizations, it's not up to you to decide if they're interested in a particular organization. If in doubt, just write down the organization. I really don't think they care about labor unions, but I'd certainly write it down and let them decide. If the type of organization isn't immediately obvious from its name, you might write something like (labor union) in parentheses after its name.

Regarding race, the question is for the FBI background check, and they allow you to check as many as might apply to you. If you're a mixture of various groups, then you can check several. Or consider how a random person who doesn't know you or your heritage would look at you and try to classify you, do your best to check the box(es) that they might use to describe you, while avoiding boxes that a random person would say clearly don't apply to you. Yes, the whole racial classification thing is ambiguous and wrongheaded, but do your best to get through it.

[NickD 202]

Regarding the organizations, it's not up to you to decide if they're interested in a particular organization. If in doubt, just write down the organization. I really don't think they care about labor unions, but I'd certainly write it down and let them decide. If the type of organization isn't immediately obvious from its name, you might write something like (labor union) in parentheses after its name.

Regarding race, the question is for the FBI background check, and they allow you to check as many as might apply to you. If you're a mixture of various groups, then you can check several. Or consider how a random person who doesn't know you or your heritage would look at you and try to classify you, do your best to check the box(es) that they might use to describe you, while avoiding boxes that a random person would say clearly don't apply to you. Yes, the whole racial classification thing is ambiguous and wrongheaded, but do your best to get through it.

lucyrich, would like to complement you on your very direct, complete, and short manner in responding to a post.

So if a person is gray, he should select white and black? Maybe this is one location on the form where a write in would be considered ethical.

[lucyrich 20]

Regarding the organizations, it's not up to you to decide if they're interested in a particular organization. If in doubt, just write down the organization. I really don't think they care about labor unions, but I'd certainly write it down and let them decide. If the type of organization isn't immediately obvious from its name, you might write something like (labor union) in parentheses after its name.

Regarding race, the question is for the FBI background check, and they allow you to check as many as might apply to you. If you're a mixture of various groups, then you can check several. Or consider how a random person who doesn't know you or your heritage would look at you and try to classify you, do your best to check the box(es) that they might use to describe you, while avoiding boxes that a random person would say clearly don't apply to you. Yes, the whole racial classification thing is ambiguous and wrongheaded, but do your best to get through it.

lucyrich, would like to complement you on your very direct, complete, and short manner in responding to a post.

So if a person is gray, he should select white and black? Maybe this is one location on the form where a write in would be considered ethical.

If your heritage is like that of Tiger Woods, and you try to write in the word he as used to describe himself, "Cablinasian", what do you expect the clerk to do as they feed that information into the FBI's computer for the background check? The clerk will be forced to either figure out which boxes to check, or to send you an RFE and ask you which boxes should be checked. The choice is up to you as you fill out the form, but as a practical matter, you might want to shortcut the RFE process and just check one or more boxes. Tiger says that "Cablinasian" was coined from Caucasian, Black, American Indian, and Asian, so he would presumably check all four of those boxes.

Then after you become a citizen, remember to write to your legislators and demand they remove that obsolete classification scheme from the USCIS forms.

[amnonbabs 0]

Regarding the organizations, it's not up to you to decide if they're interested in a particular organization. If in doubt, just write down the organization. I really don't think they care about labor unions, but I'd certainly write it down and let them decide. If the type of organization isn't immediately obvious from its name, you might write something like (labor union) in parentheses after its name.

Regarding race, the question is for the FBI background check, and they allow you to check as many as might apply to you. If you're a mixture of various groups, then you can check several. Or consider how a random person who doesn't know you or your heritage would look at you and try to classify you, do your best to check the box(es) that they might use to describe you, while avoiding boxes that a random person would say clearly don't apply to you. Yes, the whole racial classification thing is ambiguous and wrongheaded, but do your best to get through it.

I think your answer is really nice, and I thank you all for your answers, but I really wasn't looking to start a discussion about race, or racial classifications, I am just so confused by it!, I mean, seriously, no person who looks at me would say white, or black, or asian or etc.... what if I check "white" and the officer laughs at me during the interview?, lol, in any case, I do remember when I was in Canada and I had to get the Canadian police clearance the officer wrote down "Latina" and then under race he checked "white " because there was no other option... my husband (who btw is caucasian) was outraged by it, he said to the officer "she isn't white, what are you talking about?" and the officer said "well, what do you want me to say? Asian?" ... LOL

[NickD 202]

You could post your photo and we could all vote on it.

Ha, part of posting is also venting about the frustrations some of us went through with some of these questions where venting eases your head from exploding.

[sparkofcreation 0]

I think your answer is really nice, and I thank you all for your answers, but I really wasn't looking to start a discussion about race, or racial classifications, I am just so confused by it!, I mean, seriously, no person who looks at me would say white, or black, or asian or etc.... what if I check "white" and the officer laughs at me during the interview?, lol, in any case, I do remember when I was in Canada and I had to get the Canadian police clearance the officer wrote down "Latina" and then under race he checked "white " because there was no other option... my husband (who btw is caucasian) was outraged by it, he said to the officer "she isn't white, what are you talking about?" and the officer said "well, what do you want me to say? Asian?" ... LOL

The issue is that "Latinos" can be any race ... I have a Mexican co-worker with blonde hair and blue eyes, a Dominican co-worker who is black, a former student who is Bolivian of Chinese descent, etc.

The stereotypical Latino (and what I assume you look like based on your comments--olive skin, brown eyes, dark brown or black hair) is usually mestizo, i.e. mixed white (usually of Spanish descent) and Amerindian. I don't know where you're from, but surely with the big deal being made of race and racial treatment in Latin American countries lately, you know whether you identify with the white majority or the Amerindian or black (or Asian, for that matter) minorities in your country?

The default for someone who is Latino is usually "white" unless the person is *clearly* black or Amerindian but you can, of course, check more than one. (Are you black? Are you Amerindian? Are you Asian? If none of the above, check "white.")

Above information is the official policy of (1) our local police, (2) the US Census, and (3) the Latino Studies courses I took in grad school. ;-)

[NickD 202]

I think your answer is really nice, and I thank you all for your answers, but I really wasn't looking to start a discussion about race, or racial classifications, I am just so confused by it!, I mean, seriously, no person who looks at me would say white, or black, or asian or etc.... what if I check "white" and the officer laughs at me during the interview?, lol, in any case, I do remember when I was in Canada and I had to get the Canadian police clearance the officer wrote down "Latina" and then under race he checked "white " because there was no other option... my husband (who btw is caucasian) was outraged by it, he said to the officer "she isn't white, what are you talking about?" and the officer said "well, what do you want me to say? Asian?" ... LOL

The issue is that "Latinos" can be any race ... I have a Mexican co-worker with blonde hair and blue eyes, a Dominican co-worker who is black, a former student who is Bolivian of Chinese descent, etc.

The stereotypical Latino (and what I assume you look like based on your comments--olive skin, brown eyes, dark brown or black hair) is usually mestizo, i.e. mixed white (usually of Spanish descent) and Amerindian. I don't know where you're from, but surely with the big deal being made of race and racial treatment in Latin American countries lately, you know whether you identify with the white majority or the Amerindian or black (or Asian, for that matter) minorities in your country?

The default for someone who is Latino is usually "white" unless the person is *clearly* black or Amerindian but you can, of course, check more than one. (Are you black? Are you Amerindian? Are you Asian? If none of the above, check "white.")

Above information is the official policy of (1) our local police, (2) the US Census, and (3) the Latino Studies courses I took in grad school. ;-)

We watch the The Great Debaters movie last night that took place in 1935 Texas and they only had two races in that movie. Either White or Colored so at least the USCIS in there wisdom did expand that somewhat. But seems more logical to skip that section as the next section wants you to give identifying features like height, weight, color of hair, and eyes. Could just add color of skin and let it go at that.

Looking at my driver's license that is the de facto standard for identification, just lists sex, hair, eyes, height, and weight with a color photo, shouldn't that be enough?

[sparkofcreation 0]

We watch the The Great Debaters movie last night that took place in 1935 Texas and they only had two races in that movie. Either White or Colored so at least the USCIS in there wisdom did expand that somewhat. But seems more logical to skip that section as the next section wants you to give identifying features like height, weight, color of hair, and eyes. Could just add color of skin and let it go at that.

Looking at my driver's license that is the de facto standard for identification, just lists sex, hair, eyes, height, and weight with a color photo, shouldn't that be enough?

When I worked for the courts in NJ, we did in fact ask for the defendant's skin color (light, medium or dark) along with hair and eye color and height and weight, and did not ask for race.

And the FBI needs to be a bit more precise than the DMV. I mean, the purpose of a driver license or any other photo ID is, "Is this person the same person described on the license, or not?" The FBI needs to have as much information as possible about someone without actually having them physically present, to match up your description as accurately as possible with other descriptions made of you by all sorts of agencies.

[NickD 202]

We watch the The Great Debaters movie last night that took place in 1935 Texas and they only had two races in that movie. Either White or Colored so at least the USCIS in there wisdom did expand that somewhat. But seems more logical to skip that section as the next section wants you to give identifying features like height, weight, color of hair, and eyes. Could just add color of skin and let it go at that.

Looking at my driver's license that is the de facto standard for identification, just lists sex, hair, eyes, height, and weight with a color photo, shouldn't that be enough?

When I worked for the courts in NJ, we did in fact ask for the defendant's skin color (light, medium or dark) along with hair and eye color and height and weight, and did not ask for race.

And the FBI needs to be a bit more precise than the DMV. I mean, the purpose of a driver license or any other photo ID is, "Is this person the same person described on the license, or not?" The FBI needs to have as much information as possible about someone without actually having them physically present, to match up your description as accurately as possible with other descriptions made of you by all sorts of agencies.

Precisely who is gathering this identification information then, is it the FBI or the USCIS? Wife did mention when I asked her if the IO found her passport size photos, that she looked at the photos then at her, is the IO an identification expert? Well, regardless of what we say or think, won't make any difference because we don't have the power to change it. But it is a problem, both for the OP, and many other of us. Recalling back in my military days, I didn't provide any ID information about myself, they took it all along with the mug shots for positive ID. Maybe the USCIS if they require this information, should also leave that up to the experts.