Consummated Marriage

[pushbrk 12,892]

and they have been known to ask (certain) details

really??

Yes, but in cases where a fraudulent relationship is suspected.

[cmnb 0]

pushbrk,

the affidavit that i provided was from two of our friends. it stated that the marriage took place in their presence and they have personal knowlege of our relationship. do u think thats not enough?

regards,

[cmnb 0]

(35) The term "spouse", "wife", or "husband" does not include a spouse, wife, or husband by reason of any marriage ceremony where the contracting parties thereto are not physically present in the presence of each other, unless the marriage shall have been consummated./quote]

If you were both present at the ceremony, you're considered married for immigration purposes, regardless of whether the marriage has been consummated.

Thank You! I hope you are right. You do make a strong statement (convincing). All doubts will be cleared on August 4 when I meet an INS oficer.

Can someone send me a link to INS norms/laws (Section for marriage purposes). That would really help me too. I know you listed the INA 101(35)...Where can I find this information?

Thank you for the responses =)...It is looking promising!

Ever,

Here is my opinion on the above:

I would not suggest you meet with an immigration officer. You are raising an eyebrow for no reason whatsover..If you have had a legal civil marriage and have proof to support that marriage (affidavit from people who can attest that the wedding took place : remember you have to provide two affidavits from people who have knowledge of the bonafides of your wedding)provide other proofs of your civil marriage, like pictures of the marriage....you dont even have to mention your plans of having a second marriage...USCIS accepts a civil marriage as a legal binding between a husband and a wife...USCIS may not accept just the church wedding but will definately accept the civil wedding as it is legal and legitimate in the eyes of the law...

just apply for the I-130....1. they will not ask you about your sexual relationships...these kind of questions are only asked if the case appears to b fraudulaent....

good luck!!

I strongly agree that meeting with an immigration officer is the wrong move. A legal marriage certificate is sufficient to satisfy immigration law, provided the marriage was not by proxy. (that both parties were present)

I don't agree with providing affidavits attesting to the marriage "taking place". Such affidavits, when used are to attest to the bona fides of the relationship, not the legality of the marriage or that it "took place". The legal marriage certificate takes care of attesting to the marriage "taking place".

Further, I've seen no evidence that such affidavits are helpful for newlyweds who've never lived together in the same country, precisely BECAUSE the affiants would know little about the relationship and usually only about the wedding.

Again bona fides are not about weddings. They are about relationships.

pushbrk,

here is what it says on I-130 instructions:

"Affidavits sworn to or affirmed by third parties having personal knowledge of the bona fides of the marital relationship. (Each affidavit must contain the full name and address, date and place of birth of the person making the affidavit, his or her relationship to the petitioner of beneficiary, if any, and complete information and details explaining how the person acquired his or her knowledge of your marriage)" so i think i shud b fine as my affidavit exlains details that they were witness to my wedding and thats how they acquired their knowledge about our marriage...

[pushbrk 12,892]

pushbrk,

the affidavit that i provided was from two of our friends. it stated that the marriage took place in their presence and they have personal knowlege of our relationship. do u think thats not enough?

regards,

No affidavit at all is probably enough but unless they affirmed something specific about your relationship, the affidavits would not serve the purpose for which they are suggested as an option.

[pushbrk 12,892]

(35) The term "spouse", "wife", or "husband" does not include a spouse, wife, or husband by reason of any marriage ceremony where the contracting parties thereto are not physically present in the presence of each other, unless the marriage shall have been consummated./quote]

If you were both present at the ceremony, you're considered married for immigration purposes, regardless of whether the marriage has been consummated.

Thank You! I hope you are right. You do make a strong statement (convincing). All doubts will be cleared on August 4 when I meet an INS oficer.

Can someone send me a link to INS norms/laws (Section for marriage purposes). That would really help me too. I know you listed the INA 101(35)...Where can I find this information?

Thank you for the responses =)...It is looking promising!

Ever,

Here is my opinion on the above:

I would not suggest you meet with an immigration officer. You are raising an eyebrow for no reason whatsover..If you have had a legal civil marriage and have proof to support that marriage (affidavit from people who can attest that the wedding took place : remember you have to provide two affidavits from people who have knowledge of the bonafides of your wedding)provide other proofs of your civil marriage, like pictures of the marriage....you dont even have to mention your plans of having a second marriage...USCIS accepts a civil marriage as a legal binding between a husband and a wife...USCIS may not accept just the church wedding but will definately accept the civil wedding as it is legal and legitimate in the eyes of the law...

just apply for the I-130....1. they will not ask you about your sexual relationships...these kind of questions are only asked if the case appears to b fraudulaent....

good luck!!

I strongly agree that meeting with an immigration officer is the wrong move. A legal marriage certificate is sufficient to satisfy immigration law, provided the marriage was not by proxy. (that both parties were present)

I don't agree with providing affidavits attesting to the marriage "taking place". Such affidavits, when used are to attest to the bona fides of the relationship, not the legality of the marriage or that it "took place". The legal marriage certificate takes care of attesting to the marriage "taking place".

Further, I've seen no evidence that such affidavits are helpful for newlyweds who've never lived together in the same country, precisely BECAUSE the affiants would know little about the relationship and usually only about the wedding.

Again bona fides are not about weddings. They are about relationships.

pushbrk,

here is what it says on I-130 instructions:

"Affidavits sworn to or affirmed by third parties having personal knowledge of the bona fides of the marital relationship. (Each affidavit must contain the full name and address, date and place of birth of the person making the affidavit, his or her relationship to the petitioner of beneficiary, if any, and complete information and details explaining how the person acquired his or her knowledge of your marriage)" so i think i shud b fine as my affidavit exlains details that they were witness to my wedding and thats how they acquired their knowledge about our marriage...

With the further details, I expect the affidavits conformed to the requested intent because the affirmed far more than what a marriage certificate would affirm. Nevertheless, I've seen no evidence whatsoever that any such affidavit is needed in cases where the couple has never lived together in the same country. Remember, the I-130 is used for newlyweds, DCF filings and in a significant number of cases where the marriage took place in the USA (no visa) and the foreigner is just adjusting status from some other form of US entry. I'm just saying the OP doesn't need any affidavits affirming a wedding took place. The marriage certificate proves that on its own.

[cmnb 0]

(35) The term "spouse", "wife", or "husband" does not include a spouse, wife, or husband by reason of any marriage ceremony where the contracting parties thereto are not physically present in the presence of each other, unless the marriage shall have been consummated./quote]

If you were both present at the ceremony, you're considered married for immigration purposes, regardless of whether the marriage has been consummated.

Thank You! I hope you are right. You do make a strong statement (convincing). All doubts will be cleared on August 4 when I meet an INS oficer.

Can someone send me a link to INS norms/laws (Section for marriage purposes). That would really help me too. I know you listed the INA 101(35)...Where can I find this information?

Thank you for the responses =)...It is looking promising!

Ever,

Here is my opinion on the above:

I would not suggest you meet with an immigration officer. You are raising an eyebrow for no reason whatsover..If you have had a legal civil marriage and have proof to support that marriage (affidavit from people who can attest that the wedding took place : remember you have to provide two affidavits from people who have knowledge of the bonafides of your wedding)provide other proofs of your civil marriage, like pictures of the marriage....you dont even have to mention your plans of having a second marriage...USCIS accepts a civil marriage as a legal binding between a husband and a wife...USCIS may not accept just the church wedding but will definately accept the civil wedding as it is legal and legitimate in the eyes of the law...

just apply for the I-130....1. they will not ask you about your sexual relationships...these kind of questions are only asked if the case appears to b fraudulaent....

good luck!!

I strongly agree that meeting with an immigration officer is the wrong move. A legal marriage certificate is sufficient to satisfy immigration law, provided the marriage was not by proxy. (that both parties were present)

I don't agree with providing affidavits attesting to the marriage "taking place". Such affidavits, when used are to attest to the bona fides of the relationship, not the legality of the marriage or that it "took place". The legal marriage certificate takes care of attesting to the marriage "taking place".

Further, I've seen no evidence that such affidavits are helpful for newlyweds who've never lived together in the same country, precisely BECAUSE the affiants would know little about the relationship and usually only about the wedding.

Again bona fides are not about weddings. They are about relationships.

pushbrk,

here is what it says on I-130 instructions:

"Affidavits sworn to or affirmed by third parties having personal knowledge of the bona fides of the marital relationship. (Each affidavit must contain the full name and address, date and place of birth of the person making the affidavit, his or her relationship to the petitioner of beneficiary, if any, and complete information and details explaining how the person acquired his or her knowledge of your marriage)" so i think i shud b fine as my affidavit exlains details that they were witness to my wedding and thats how they acquired their knowledge about our marriage...

With the further details, I expect the affidavits conformed to the requested intent because the affirmed far more than what a marriage certificate would affirm. Nevertheless, I've seen no evidence whatsoever that any such affidavit is needed in cases where the couple has never lived together in the same country. Remember, the I-130 is used for newlyweds, DCF filings and in a significant number of cases where the marriage took place in the USA (no visa) and the foreigner is just adjusting status from some other form of US entry. I'm just saying the OP doesn't need any affidavits affirming a wedding took place. The marriage certificate proves that on its own.

so whats additional document could i have provided??...i have a joint bank account with my wife...i sent statements of those and an affidavit from the bank that states that our account is in satisfactory standing...

[Beth/ Paris Heart 2]

and they have been known to ask (certain) details

really??

My husband and I were married via Proxy after exhausting all attempts of marriage in France, we married Nov. 20, 2007 then I flew to paris 2 days later for our honeymoon, funny thing, when I talked a lawyer he said, better go have a honey moon after marriage they will ask if the marrige was consumated, and under oath you have to answer truthfully. I wish you the best in your journey. Best to do what we did, have a short honeymoon, ours was 12 days, and keep your back up proof, pictures, receipts, tickets, and pass port stamps help also.

Good luck,

Paris Heart

[Urge To Race 2]

Good advice for other couples marrying by proxy. For the OP, both will be present for the civil marriage, so they don't need to have a honey moon until later.

and they have been known to ask (certain) details

really??

My husband and I were married via Proxy after exhausting all attempts of marriage in France, we married Nov. 20, 2007 then I flew to paris 2 days later for our honeymoon, funny thing, when I talked a lawyer he said, better go have a honey moon after marriage they will ask if the marrige was consumated, and under oath you have to answer truthfully. I wish you the best in your journey. Best to do what we did, have a short honeymoon, ours was 12 days, and keep your back up proof, pictures, receipts, tickets, and pass port stamps help also.

Good luck,

Paris Heart

[pushbrk 12,892]

Right, if they are both present for the marriage, they don't have any issue with whether it was consumated. The OP has unnecessarily become hung up on the word consumated but that part of the documentation refers to marriages by proxy. As such, the entire section is simply not applicable to his case.

This is not a proxy marriage. It's just an OP who errantly thinks immigration officials might treat it as if it was because the couple doesn't plan to have sex until after their church wedding. I suppose that if this plan were to come to light, it might raise questions of fraud but there's really no reason to bring it up or think it will be brought up by an immigration official. It's not like cover letters or interviews need an injection of, "Oh, by the way, we haven't had sex yet."

For that matter, there's no reason to mention any later church wedding. Married is married.

Good advice for other couples marrying by proxy. For the OP, both will be present for the civil marriage, so they don't need to have a honey moon until later.

and they have been known to ask (certain) details

really??

My husband and I were married via Proxy after exhausting all attempts of marriage in France, we married Nov. 20, 2007 then I flew to paris 2 days later for our honeymoon, funny thing, when I talked a lawyer he said, better go have a honey moon after marriage they will ask if the marrige was consumated, and under oath you have to answer truthfully. I wish you the best in your journey. Best to do what we did, have a short honeymoon, ours was 12 days, and keep your back up proof, pictures, receipts, tickets, and pass port stamps help also.

Good luck,

Paris Heart

Edited July 23, 2008 by pushbrk

[Ever 0]

Thank you! I just read the definitions and it is very clear. It only applies if I wasn't physically present at the civil marriage. Thank you all for your advices and information. I believe we will go with our original plans and don't need to meet with the INS officer to ask this questions just like some of you think I shouldn't do. I don't see a need.

I will start the process in December after I get married in Venezuela. After she gets her I-130 Application approved and has her interview, we will set a date for our church wedding =)...

Once again, thank you all. I am glad I joined this forum. I am sure it will be useful during my process.