The MENA thread about nothing

[brnidokiegurl 0]

green or black eye peas

[Nagishkaw 510]

Green early peas.

[~Jackie~ 30]

I want an approval!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

ok...i'm calmer now.

jJ

[maggieNomar 0]

I want an approval!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

ok...i'm calmer now.

jJ

Glad you got that out Jax.

[~Jackie~ 30]

me too. i guess no news is good news..at least I dont have an RFE yet.

jJ

[amal 4]

hope u hear something soon jax!

vegetarian beans??? so ..... the beans only eat veggies?

[amal 4]

Mary, Mary, Quite Contrary is an English nursery rhyme; an alternate first line is Mistress Mary, quite contrary.

Most common version:

Mary, Mary, quite contrary, How does your garden grow? With silver bells, and cockle shells, And pretty maids all in a row. The version from Frances Hodgson Burnett's The Secret Garden is:

Mistress Mary, quite contrary, How does your garden grow? With silver bells, and cockle shells, And marigolds all in a row. Like many nursery rhymes, it has acquired various historical explanations. One is that it refers to Mary I of Scotland, with "how does your garden grow" referring to her reign, "silver bells" referring to (Catholic) cathedral bells, "cockleshells" insinuating that her husband cheated on her, and "pretty maids all in a row" referring to her babies that died.

Another is that it refers to Mary I of England and her attempts to restore England to Roman Catholicism, identifying the "cockle shells," for example, with the symbol of pilgrimage to the shrine of Saint James in Spain (Santiago de Compostela) and the "pretty maids all in a row" with nuns.

These explanations vary; it is identified with Mary I of England for roughly the same reasons as with her Scottish counterpart; her husband Phillip II of Spain was barely interested in her (hence the word "cockleshells"), the "How does your garden grow?" being a mockery of her womb (and her inability to produce heirs) or the common idea that England had become a Catholic vassal or "branch" of Spain and the Habsburgs, or a punning reference to her chief minister, Stephen Gardiner ("gardener"). "Quite contrary" could be a reference to her unsuccessful attempt to reverse ecclesiatical changes effected by her father Henry VIII and her brother Edward VI. The "pretty maids all in a row" could be a reference to miscarriages as with the other Mary or her execution of Lady Jane Grey after coming to the throne. "Rows and rows" may refer to her infamous burnings and executions of Protestants.

Alternatively, capitalising on the Queen's portrayal by Whig historians as 'Bloody Mary', the "silver bells and cockle shells" referred to in the nursery rhyme could be colloquialisms for instruments of torture. The 'silver bells' may refer to thumbscrews, while the 'cockleshells' are thought to have been instruments of torture which were attached to the genitals. Finally, 'maids' might be a reference to 'maidens' which were early guillotine-like devices used to sever heads.

Still, some argue that no proof has been found that the rhyme was known before the eighteenth century, while Mary I of England and Mary I of Scotland were contemporaries in the sixteenth century. Some historians suggest that the song was invented by Protestants and Anglicans to mock the reign of both Marys at the time or long afterwards.

Edited July 30, 2008 by amal

[amal 4]

1. ring around the rosies

2. london bridge is falling down

3. mary mary quite contrary

4. jack and jill

5. jack spratt

6. the old woman that lived in a shoe

7. hey diddle diddle

8. 3 blind mice

9. jack be nimble

10. peter peter pumpkin eater

11. hicory dicory dock

12. blue bells cockel shells

Lyrics

There are several variants of Jack and Jill (many of them parodies), all sharing the same first rhyme:

Jack and Jill went up the hill To fetch a pail of water. Jack fell down and broke his crown, And Jill came tumbling after. The second verse of the rhyme is less commonly performed:

Up Jack got and home did trot As fast as he could caper; And went to bed and covered his head In vinegar and brown paper. There is also an alternative to the third and fourth and firth lines of this second verse:^[1]

Then up Jack got and home did trot As fast as he could caper; To Old Dame Dob who patched his nob With vinegar and brown paper. There is an even rarer third verse, as follows:

When Jill came in how she did grin To see Jack's paper plaster; Mother vexed, did whip her next, For causing Jack's disaster. And a fourth:

Now Jack did laugh and Jill did cry But her tears did soon abate; Then Jill did say that they should play At see-saw across the gate.

Origin and interpretation

The origin of the rhyme is obscure and therefore theories as to origin abound. The earliest publication of the lyrics was in the 1760s^[2] in John Newbery's Mother Goose's Melody.^[3] As a result of inclusion in this compilation of English nursery rhymes, Jack and Jill are considered part of the canon of "Mother Goose" characters. As is common with nursery rhyme exegesis, complicated metaphors are often said to exist within the lyrics of Jack and Jill. Although these theories of meaning appear to make perfect sense it does not follow that they are in fact the original meaning of the song.^[4] This is corroborated by the fact that the Newbery publication predates some of the common origin stories. These include:

• In Norse mythology, Hjúki and Bil, a brother and sister (respectively) who, according to the 13th century Prose Edda book Gylfaginning written by Icelandic historian Snorri Sturluson, were taken up from the earth by the moon (personified as the god Máni) as they were fetching water from the well called Byrgir, bearing on their shoulders the cask called Saegr and the pole called Simul. Many tales and figures from the Prose Edda date from a much earlier date, recorded from Skaldic poetry that was transmitted orally, much of which related to stories rooted in the Germanic paganism of the Germanic peoples.
• The village of Kilmersdon in Somerset has a long tradition of association with the nursery rhyme and the hill featured in the rhyme is said to be one near this village. It has been suggested that the surname Gilson originated in this area and could have been derived from 'son of Jill'.
• Jack is the 15th or 16th century Cardinal Wolsey and Gill is Bishop Tarbes who attempted to arrange the marriage of Mary Tudor to the French king. Their failure to negotiate this peace with France led to tax raises and thus the Jack and Jill protest song.^[5]
• Marking the event in English history, when, in the 17th century, King Charles I tried to reform the taxes on liquid measures. He was blocked by Parliament, so subsequently ordered that the volume of a Jack (1/2 pint) be reduced, but the tax remained the same. This meant that he still received more tax, despite Parliament's veto. Hence "Jack fell down and broke his crown" (many pint glasses in the UK still have a line marking the 1/2 pint level with a crown above it) "and Jill came tumbling after". The reference to "Jill", (actually a "gill", or 1/4 pint) is an indication that the gill dropped in volume as a consequence. A variant of this is that liquids (specifically alcoholic beverages) were watered down; hence, "fetch a pail of water."
• Jack and Jill are the 18th century Louis XVI of France, who was deposed and beheaded (lost his crown), and his Queen, Marie Antoinette (who came tumbling after). The words and lyrics were made more palatable for the nursery by giving it a happy ending.
• Jack and Jill were forms of currency referring to dollars and cents, respectively. The rising value of Jacks and Jill caused them to "go up a hill" until a plague caused a lack of water, causing a drop in the values of this currency (falling down and breaking his crown).^[6]

A Jack and Jill reference appears in William Shakespeare's "A Midsummer Night's Dream" at the end of act three: Jack shall have Jill; Nought shall go ill. There is no evidence of any specific connection between this and the nursery rhyme and it is probable that the Jack and Jill here are used in a general representative sense for man and woman, lad and lass (such as John and Jane may be). A similar reference occurs in Shakespeare's Love's Labour's Lost near the end of the play: Our wooing doth not end like an old play; Jack hath not Jill.

A. E. Housman created a parody of the poem in his "Fragment of a didactic poem on the Latin grammar" : "So, up the steep side of the rugged hill, //Companions in adventure, Jack and Jill // With footing nice and anxious effort hale //To the moist pump the necessary pail".

[amal 4]

1. ring around the rosies

2. london bridge is falling down

3. mary mary quite contrary

4. jack and jill

5. jack spratt

6. the old woman that lived in a shoe

7. hey diddle diddle

8. 3 blind mice

9. jack be nimble

10. peter peter pumpkin eater

11. hicory dicory dock

12. blue bells cockel shells

<H1 align=center>Jack Sprat Rhyme</H1>

Nursery Rhyme & History

Origin to words of Jack Sprat can be found in British History!

The Jack Sprat alluded to in this English poem is reputed to be King Charles I (1625-1649) and Henrietta Maria, his Queen (1609-1669). Apparently, when King Charles (Jack Sprat) declared war on Spain, parliament refused to finance him (leaving him lean!) So his wife imposed an illegal war tax (to get some fat!) after the angered King (Jack Sprat) dissolved Parliament. The Robin Hood Legend!

Another interpretation of the Jack Sprat Nursery rhyme relates to the story of Richard I (Richard the Lionheart 1157 - 1199) and his younger brother King John (1166 - 1216). Both of whom feature strongly in the traditional legend of Robin Hood.

Prince John, Richard the Lionheart and the Ransom!

In 1189 John (Jack Sprat) married Joan , the ambitious and greedy daughter and heiress of the Earl of Gloucester ("Joan ate all the fat"). When King Richard went on Crusade, from 1190 to 1194, John attempted to take the crown of England - a ruthless and treacherous usurper). On his return from the Crusades King Richard was taken hostage by Duke Leopold demanding a ransom of 150,000 marks. John reluctantly had to raise the ransom, leaving the country destitute for years and reducing John's inheritance ("They picked it clean"). The ransom was paid and Richard was released. John was crowned King of England following the death of Richard in 1199. He had his marriage to Joan annulled, she was never acknowledged as queen . She then married again to Geoffrey de Mandeville and her third husband was Hubert de Burgh .

The picture is of King Charles I whose constant disputes with the Parliamentarians lead to the English Civil War and his execution

Jack Sprat rhyme aka Jack Spratt

Jack Sprat could eat no fat

His wife could eat no lean

And so betwixt the two of them

They licked the platter clean

Jack ate all the lean,

Joan ate all the fat.

The bone they picked it clean,

Then gave it to the cat

Jack Sprat was wheeling,

His wife by the ditch.

The barrow turned over,

And in she did pitch.

Says Jack, "She'll be drowned!"

But Joan did reply,

"I don't think I shall,

For the ditch is quite dry.".

[brnidokiegurl 0]

whose Mary and why is she contrary and do we care? she prob went up the hill with jack and jill pushed jill down so she could have her way with jack since he had forgotten his way to the beanstalk.

After a roll down the hill and a cigarette they went to town but the london bridge fell down and jack spratt said see now you know why you shouldnt eat any fat. Continueing on they went past the house that held the old woman and all her children what she didnt realize was 3 of the kids were actually blind mice but being she was so old she couldnt tell.

Going on down the lane they were singing hey diddle diddle the cat and the fiddle and thinking its almost party time baby. THere will be dancing and food and you know how nimble that jack is hard to believe he can do those (tricks) over the candle stick how he doesnt burn anything. At the party was all this food but the pumpkin kept disappearing because peter peter pumpkin eater couldnt get his fill and he will definately be sorry tomorrow

All had fun but soon the old clock said hickory dickory dock the mouse ran up the clock, the clock struck 3 and thats the end of the partttttttttt e

the end

ty ty ty

[amal 4]

THERE WAS AN OLD WOMAN

There was an old woman who lived in a shoe.

She had so many children she didn't know what to do.

She gave them some broth without any bread.

Then whipped them all soundly and put them to bed.

Midi: There was an Old Woman who Lived in a Shoe

The 'Old Woman who Lived in a Shoe' referred to the British Empire trying to control its colonies. We think of the shape of Italy as a boot or shoe, but in this rhyme it’s the British Isles. The old woman was Parliament, who couldn't quite look after her many colonial children in the far-flung British Empire.

whose Mary and why is she contrary and do we care? she prob went up the hill with jack and jill pushed jill down so she could have her way with jack since he had forgotten his way to the beanstalk.

After a roll down the hill and a cigarette they went to town but the london bridge fell down and jack spratt said see now you know why you shouldnt eat any fat. Continueing on they went past the house that held the old woman and all her children what she didnt realize was 3 of the kids were actually blind mice but being she was so old she couldnt tell.

Going on down the lane they were singing hey diddle diddle the cat and the fiddle and thinking its almost party time baby. THere will be dancing and food and you know how nimble that jack is hard to believe he can do those (tricks) over the candle stick how he doesnt burn anything. At the party was all this food but the pumpkin kept disappearing because peter peter pumpkin eater couldnt get his fill and he will definately be sorry tomorrow

All had fun but soon the old clock said hickory dickory dock the mouse ran up the clock, the clock struck 3 and thats the end of the partttttttttt e

the end

ty ty ty

[brnidokiegurl 0]

[Nagishkaw 510]

Mary had a little lamb

who's stash was white as snow

and every where that Mary went

they both enjoyed a blow!

[brnidokiegurl 0]

Mary had a little lamb

who's stash was white as snow

and every where that Mary went

they both enjoyed a blow!

jack be nimble jack be quick

not THAT quick

[Nagishkaw 510]

Old King Cole was a merry old soul

and a merry old soul was he.

He called for his pipe

He called for his bowl

I guess we all know about old King Cole.