The MENA thread about nothing

[amal 4]

#2 London Bridge is Falling Down:

The Wooden Bridge

The 'London Bridge is falling down' Nursery Rhyme is based on the one of the most famous landmarks in London. It's history can be traced to the Roman occupation of England in the first century. The first London Bridge was made of wood and clay and was fortified or re-built with the various materials mentioned in the children's nursery rhyme. Many disasters struck the bridges - Viking invaders destroyed the bridge in the 1000's which led to a fortified design, complete with a drawbridge. Building materials changed due to the many fires that broke out on the bridge.

The Stone Bridge

The first stone bridge was designed by Peter de Colechurch and built in 1176 and took 33 years to build and featured twenty arches the dimensions of which were sixty feet high and thirty feet wide and was complete with tower and gates. The flow of the Thames under the bridge was used to turn water wheels below the arches for grinding grain. By the 1300's the bridge contained 140 shops, some of which were more than three stories high. ( The reference to Silver and Gold in the rhyme relates to the trading which was conducted on the bridge). London Bridge survived the Great Fire of London in 1666 but its arches and foundations were weakened. (Buildings with thatched roofs were banned in London following the Great Fire of 1666 and this ban was only lifted with the construction of the New Globe Theater in 1994 - the following website is highly recommended for further details of the Globe william-shakespeare.info

The Modern Re-builds!

In the 1820s a new London Bridge was built on another site, north of the old one. This new bridge opened in 1831 and the old bridge was demolished. In the 1960s yet another London Bridge was built. The London Bridge of 1831 was transported, stone by stone, to Lake Havasu in Arizona, USA.

NB There is another Nursery Rhyme called 'London bridge is broken down' - its origins relate to Queen Anne Boleyn - fascinating! And for other surprising revelations about Executions, Torturers and Lord Mayors check out London Bells a Nursery Rhyme containing the original lyrics to Oranges and Lemons!

A Picture of London Bridge, complete with houses, gatehouse and church

London bridge is falling down - Nursery Rhyme

London Bridge is falling down,

Falling down, falling down,

London Bridge is falling down,

My fair Lady.

Build it up with wood and clay,

Wood and clay, wood and clay,

Build it up with wood and clay,

My fair Lady.

Wood and clay will wash away,

Wash away, wash away,

Wood and clay will wash away,

My fair Lady.

Build it up with bricks and mortar,

Bricks and mortar, bricks and mortar,

Build it up with bricks and mortar,

My fair Lady.

Bricks and mortar will not stay,

Will not stay, will not stay,

Bricks and mortar will not stay,

My fair Lady.

Build it up with iron and steel,

Iron and steel, iron and steel,

Build it up with iron and steel,

My fair Lady.

Iron and steel will bend and bow,

Bend and bow, bend and bow,

Iron and steel will bend and bow,

My fair Lady.

Build it up with silver and gold,

Silver and gold, silver and gold,

Build it up with silver and gold,

My fair Lady.

Silver and gold will be stolen away,

Stolen away, stolen away,

Silver and gold will be stolen away,

My fair Lady.

Set a man to watch all nigh,

Watch all night, watch all night,

Set a man to watch all night,

My fair Lady.

Suppose the man should fall asleep,

Fall asleep, fall asleep,

Suppose the man should fall asleep?

My fair Lady.

Give him a pipe to smoke all night,

Smoke all night, smoke all night,

Give him a pipe to smoke all night,

My fair Lady.

[amal 4]

<H1 align=center>London bridge is broken down

Nursery Rhyme

Lyrics, History and Origins</H1>

Nursery Rhyme & History

Who was Lady Lee?

The origins of this nursery rhyme are truly fascinating and have roots in the extraordinary events surrounding King Henry VIII of England (1491–1547) and his second, tragic, wife Anne Boleyn. The 'Lady Lee' referred to in the Nursery Rhyme was, in fact, Lady Margaret Wyatt, the sister of Thomas Wyatt the poet. She married Sir Anthony Lee of Quarrendon and thus became Lady Lee. The Wyatts were neighbours of the Boleyn family and Anne and Margaret were childhood friends.

Anne Boleyn

As Anne rose in power Margaret accompanied her and become a trusted lady-in-waiting. When Anne was accused of bigamy Thomas Wyatt was accused with her, but he was later released. Margaret, Lady Lee, stayed with Anne Boleyn until her execution and attended the ill-fated queen on the scaffold. The nursery rhyme 'London bridge is broken down' can be described as an allegory - a description of one thing under the image of another. The words of the nursery rhyme are believed to describe the rise and fall of Anne Boleyn (the gay ladye) and the lyrics use the name of Lady Lee to clearly identify the central character, Anne Boleyn. The Hidden Secrets in Nursery Rhymes

Many nursery rhymes have secret, hidden, meanings and allude to people and events in history. Anne Boleyn was hated by the common people of England, due to her haughty manner and the common folk's strong allegiance to Henry VIII's first wife, Katherine of Aragon. Open criticism of Anne was approved and encouraged during the reigns of Henry VIII and his eldest daughter Mary (Bloody Mary - Henry and Katherine's daughter). But when Queen Elizabeth I ascended to the throne all such approval and criticism stopped - the new Queen was the daughter of Henry VIII and Anne Boleyn. The words and lyrics of 'London bridge is broken down' are thus explained. Click the following link for more information about the execution of Anne Boleyn

http://www.love-poems.me.uk/biography_boleyn_anne.htm

The gruesome practice of execution by beheading is revealed in Jack and Jill

The most famous Nursery Rhyme on this subject is 'London bridge is falling down' - details of the history and origins are available - fascinating! And for surprising revelations about Executioners, Torturers and Lord Mayors check out

London Bells the Nursery Rhyme which contains the original lyrics to

Oranges and Lemons!

A Picture of King Henry VIII and Anne Boleyn

London bridge is broken down Nursery Rhyme

London bridge is broken down,

Dance over my Lady Lee,

London bridge is broken down,

With a gay ladye.

How shall we build it up again?

Dance over my Lady Lee,

How shall we build it up again?

With a gay ladye.

We'll build it up with gravel and stone,

Dance over my Lady Lee,

We'll build it up with gravel and stone,

With a gay ladye.

Gravel and stone will be washed away,

Dance over my Lady Lee,

Gravel and stone will be washed away,

With a gay ladye.

We'll build it up with iron and steel,

Dance over my Lady Lee,

We'll build it up with iron and steel,

With a gay ladye.

Iron and steel will bend and break,

Dance over my Lady Lee,

Iron and steel will bend and break,

With a gay ladye.

We'll build it up with silver and gold,

Dance over my Lady Lee,

We'll build it up with silver and gold,

With a gay ladye.

Silver and gold will be stolen away,

Dance over my Lady Lee,

Silver and gold will be stolen away,

With a gay ladye.

We'll set a man to watch it then,

Dance over my Lady Lee,

We'll set a man to watch it then,

With a gay ladye.

Suppose the man should fall asleep,

Dance over my Lady Lee,

Suppose the man should fall asleep,

With a gay ladye.

We'll put a pipe into his mouth,

Dance over my Lady Lee,

We'll put a pipe into his mouth,

With a gay ladye.

.

Edited July 29, 2008 by amal

[Nagishkaw 510]

Madam, I swear I use no art at all.

That he is mad, 'tis true: 'tis true 'tis pity;

And pity 'tis 'tis true: a foolish figure;

But farewell it, for I will use no art.

Mad let us grant him, then: and now remains

That we find out the cause of this effect,

Or rather say, the cause of this defect,

For this effect defective comes by cause:

Thus it remains, and the remainder thus.

[amal 4]

Madam, I swear I use no art at all.

That he is mad, 'tis true: 'tis true 'tis pity;

And pity 'tis 'tis true: a foolish figure;

But farewell it, for I will use no art.

Mad let us grant him, then: and now remains

That we find out the cause of this effect,

Or rather say, the cause of this defect,

For this effect defective comes by cause:

Thus it remains, and the remainder thus.

is that edgar allen poe? he's usually darker than this particular thing but the style is similar.....and most importantly...is that english? coz I sure don't understand what it means lol...i'm at work.. my brain is still in bed.

[Nagishkaw 510]

Shakespeare.

[amal 4]

Shakespeare.

oh, well that explains it. thx

[maggieNomar 0]

Meaning

Verse from a nursery rhyme.

Origin

There are many versions of this rhyme, some of which use entirely different words to the roses/rosy variants. The most commonly seen are 'ring a ring of (or o') roses (or rosy)' and 'ring around a rosy'. The many versions aren't surprising as, being lines from a playground rhyme, they would have been spoken/sung/chanted rather than read from a book.

It is sometimes suggested that the rhyme relates to the Black Death - the bubonic plague that spread through Europe in the 1340s, or to the Great Plague of London, 1665/6. The plausible-sounding theory has it that the 'ring' is the ring of sores around the mouths of plague victims, who subsequently sneeze and fall down dead.

The first appearance of the rhyme in print is in Kate Greenaway's Mother Goose, which wasn't published until 1881, suggesting that the rhyme originated far too late for the Great Plague to have been the origin:

Ring-a-ring-a-roses,

A pocket full of posies;

Hush! hush! hush! hush!

We're all tumbled down.

Some of the refutations of the plague origin theory are rather too emphatic in their dismissing of this idea. Firstly, the 1881 date that is part of the refutations is a little misleading. That is the first known printing of the complete rhyme, but the game and the 'ring a ring of rosies' line were known well before that. The game and the rhyme were known in the USA, and quite probably elsewhere, by at least 1855, when it was included in The Old Homestead, a novel by Ann S. Stephens. This depicts children playing 'Ring, ring a rosy' in New York.

William Wells Newell, the author of Games and Songs of American Children, 1884, wrote that Ring a Ring a Rosie, with the familiar tune, was in use by children in Bedford, Massachusetts, circa 1790. The version he recorded was:

Ring a ring a rosie

A bottle full of posie,

All the girls in our town,

Ring for little Josie

Newell was a respected folklorist, although he didn't supply documentary evidence for his assertion.

The argument that the lyric couldn't have lasted in common playground parlance but without being recorded in print from the days of the 1340s until 1881 has some weight. From the Great Plague of 1665 until 1790 isn't such a stretch. An unrecorded period of 125 years doesn't seem entirely impossible - many phrases have lain dormant for longer than that. Children's rhymes would have been of little interest to authors in the 17th century and printing was then still an expensive process. There's no evidence to suggest that these lines originated as anything other than a children's rhyme and would inevitably have been known to children for some time before appearing in print. How long a time is open to conjecture, but 125 years - well, why not?

However, showing that something is possible doesn't make it true. It is a common urge to try to ascribe meaning to obscure lyrics and poems - for example, 'Pop goes the weasel'. The 'atishoo, atishoo, all fall down' lyric isn't present in many of the the numerous versions and also doesn't tally with the actual symptoms of people suffering from plague. The adherents to the Great Plague derivation may be trying too hard, but it may just be true.

An alternative and more probable explanation, which is a commonplace one in regard to nursery rhymes, is that the words are playful nonsense.

The etymology of this lyric is a good example of how untruths can so easily spread. In attempting to deny what they had pre-judged as a false 'bubonic plague' explanation several websites have begged the question by swallowing the 'first time the phrase appears in print is 1881' as fact. As a French wine producer who tasted a poor imported wine which was labelled 'Appellation d'origine contrôlée' once said, "the paper never refuses the ink" - that goes double for digital paper.

Ok now this thread about nothing is becoming a college course!!

[Nagishkaw 510]

Some days it feels like a bad dream, other days it feels like a nursery rhyme.

[maggieNomar 0]

Some days it feels like a bad dream, other days it feels like a nursery rhyme.

Isn't your SO almost here Nagi?

[brnidokiegurl 0]

shes prob out swimming

[maggieNomar 0]

shes prob out swimming

B)

[Nagishkaw 510]

[maggieNomar 0]

Well what are you doing then Nagi besides researching nursery rhymes?

[brnidokiegurl 0]

she eats alot of chips

[Nagishkaw 510]

Eating chips, although I did have a nice lunch for a change. Vegetarian baked beans, peas, and black olives.