PILOTS:US AIRWAYS UNSAFE

[rmncm 0]

I would feel better as a passenger knowing we had enough fuel to divert to another airport that was a hour or more away. In Idaho we have 1 airport and the closest one is like 2 hours away Seatac,LV or Salt Lake. What is a extra 15 minutes of fuel going to do for us then? Anything can happen like, a ground accident, bad weather or acts of god. If they cant get the run way cleared in time then what? I am all for having a extra amount of fuel on board.

From a buissness stand point, were is the real savings if a plane crashes due to no fuel and all the families sue you for millions of dollars each or you save a few million dollars a year but cutting the fuel to save weight. I feel for the airlines, after all jet fuel is basiclly high grade deisel and we all know how expensive it is.

[Steve Y Jessica 1]

I would feel better as a passenger knowing we had enough fuel to divert to another airport that was a hour or more away. In Idaho we have 1 airport and the closest one is like 2 hours away Seatac,LV or Salt Lake. What is a extra 15 minutes of fuel going to do for us then? Anything can happen like, a ground accident, bad weather or acts of god. If they cant get the run way cleared in time then what? I am all for having a extra amount of fuel on board.

From a buissness stand point, were is the real savings if a plane crashes due to no fuel and all the families sue you for millions of dollars each or you save a few million dollars a year but cutting the fuel to save weight. I feel for the airlines, after all jet fuel is basiclly high grade deisel and we all know how expensive it is.

All of this is taken into account when planning the fuel load for the flight. When the load is determined, it is 100% safe for the flight and anything that could happen during the flight.

There has NEVER been a crash due to not enough fuel planned for the flight!!!!!

Telling the pilots that they cannot just request more fuel whenever they want saves the airlines 100's of millions a year. So this does make a big difference.

[desert_fox 32]

All of this is taken into account when planning the fuel load for the flight. When the load is determined, it is 100% safe for the flight and anything that could happen during the flight.

There has NEVER been a crash due to not enough fuel planned for the flight!!!!!

Telling the pilots that they cannot just request more fuel whenever they want saves the airlines 100's of millions a year. So this does make a big difference.

As pointed out earlier, An AVIANCA flight out of Colombia crashed on final approach into JFK. The plane ws put into a holding pattern, and when finally allowed into the approach, he was still like #9 in line. The pilot screwed up by not declaring an flight emergency was would have put him first in line.

I recall an United flight ran out of fuel on final into Colo. Springs also.

FAA regs require that a plane carry enough full to divert to an alternative airport if required.

[Steve Y Jessica 1]

All of this is taken into account when planning the fuel load for the flight. When the load is determined, it is 100% safe for the flight and anything that could happen during the flight.

There has NEVER been a crash due to not enough fuel planned for the flight!!!!!

Telling the pilots that they cannot just request more fuel whenever they want saves the airlines 100's of millions a year. So this does make a big difference.

As pointed out earlier, An AVIANCA flight out of Colombia crashed on final approach into JFK. The plane ws put into a holding pattern, and when finally allowed into the approach, he was still like #9 in line. The pilot screwed up by not declaring an flight emergency was would have put him first in line.

I recall an United flight ran out of fuel on final into Colo. Springs also.

FAA regs require that a plane carry enough full to divert to an alternative airport if required.

And the Avianca was a PILOT screw-up, all they have to do is tell the tower they are low on fuel due to being in the holding pattern, and they will be allowed to land right away.

And if I remember correctly, the Colorado Springs incident was a flight out of Canada, and there was a screw up by the fueler who was fueling the aircraft because he did not correctly convert the gallons to liters, and the discrepancey in the final fuel load was not noticed by the pilot.

Edited July 20, 2008 by Steve Y Jessica

[Dan J 277]

I would feel better as a passenger knowing we had enough fuel to divert to another airport that was a hour or more away. In Idaho we have 1 airport and the closest one is like 2 hours away Seatac,LV or Salt Lake. What is a extra 15 minutes of fuel going to do for us then? Anything can happen like, a ground accident, bad weather or acts of god. If they cant get the run way cleared in time then what? I am all for having a extra amount of fuel on board.

From a buissness stand point, were is the real savings if a plane crashes due to no fuel and all the families sue you for millions of dollars each or you save a few million dollars a year but cutting the fuel to save weight. I feel for the airlines, after all jet fuel is basiclly high grade deisel and we all know how expensive it is.

All of this is taken into account when planning the fuel load for the flight. When the load is determined, it is 100% safe for the flight and anything that could happen during the flight.

There has NEVER been a crash due to not enough fuel planned for the flight!!!!!

Telling the pilots that they cannot just request more fuel whenever they want saves the airlines 100's of millions a year. So this does make a big difference.

Actually there was, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider But they did manage a "crash" landing, with no casualties.

[Steve Y Jessica 1]

I would feel better as a passenger knowing we had enough fuel to divert to another airport that was a hour or more away. In Idaho we have 1 airport and the closest one is like 2 hours away Seatac,LV or Salt Lake. What is a extra 15 minutes of fuel going to do for us then? Anything can happen like, a ground accident, bad weather or acts of god. If they cant get the run way cleared in time then what? I am all for having a extra amount of fuel on board.

From a buissness stand point, were is the real savings if a plane crashes due to no fuel and all the families sue you for millions of dollars each or you save a few million dollars a year but cutting the fuel to save weight. I feel for the airlines, after all jet fuel is basiclly high grade deisel and we all know how expensive it is.

All of this is taken into account when planning the fuel load for the flight. When the load is determined, it is 100% safe for the flight and anything that could happen during the flight.

There has NEVER been a crash due to not enough fuel planned for the flight!!!!!

Telling the pilots that they cannot just request more fuel whenever they want saves the airlines 100's of millions a year. So this does make a big difference.

Actually there was, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider But they did manage a "crash" landing, with no casualties.

And again, if you read what you posted, it was due to errors in the person that was fueling the airctaft. He did not put the correct amount of fuel on the aircraft that was planned. It was not due to the planning of the fuel load.

[truffles 2]

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...751C0A966958260

This is a report in newspaper about the sequence of events - interesting reading - and also begs the question about air traffic controllers role in this. It seems it was brought to attentions that the pilot had concerns over fuel.

[yogib37 3]

When I was working down in Sao Paulo. We had a pilot say he needed 4000 lbs more fuel. Well this extra fuel put weight restrictions on the aircraft. Well, his family was flying stand-by on this flight. But with the weight restrictions, no stand-bys were going to get on. When he found out that his family was not going to be able to get on the flight, all of the sudden he was demanding that fuel be removed to lift the weight restrictions.

So, if you are telling me that he ONLY requests more fuel when it is for the safety of the aircraft. Then at this time, he was risking the safety of all of the other passengers just so his family could get on the flight.

Exactly which FAR does this fall under???

Yes that is being a A$$ wipe Pilot who only has his own personal busness on his mind. SO yes he is being a jerk.

[yogib37 3]

Looks like yogi made a boo boo on this thread.

what was my boo boo? I did not. I express my opinion and if you dont agree with it, then I am sorry. I feel I am right and I have a good point.

so if you think I am wrong chime in with your opinion.

[Ban Hammer 13,641]

what's the difference between a pilot and a jet engine?

the jet engine stops whining after shutdown.

[yogib37 3]

This will be seen as pilots whining - until there is an instance of a close call because the plane didnt carry enough fuel.

I dont see why a pilot would make issue about this unless their are geniune concerns - after all he doesnt foot the bill for the fuel or get brownie points for having more fuel - however HE/SHE is considered responsible for the aircraft and who gets it in the neck when things go wrong?

It's because they think they are gods and they should be able to do whatever they want. And anytime that some of their power is taken away from them, they get pissed off. This is nothing to do with safety and everything to do with their power trip.

And no matter how bad they screw up or cause problems, pilots never get in trouble.

Dude,

You surely do not know much about aviation. It is not about a power trip, and It is about safety. The Plane is required to have enough fuel to make it to where it is supposed to go then enough to make it if it needed to be diverted plus 45 mins extra in case of holding pattern, or Strong head winds, etc..

They are not whining cause they get they have to take less fuel onboard.

I strongly stand behind the Pilots on this. The Pliot can over ride the decesion of managment and tell them to PLuck OFF,

Section 95.xx (dont know the exact rule) of the Federal Air Regs. States the Pilot in command is fully responsible for the safe operation of the aircraft and the pilots decesion is final.

So if he wants to put a extra 15 mins of fuel on board, he can by the FAR's If he feels it will make it safer.

I think you will change your mind if you were on the plane or your fiancee was on the plane coming to the USA and the plane went down cause they had min. fuel load.

Back in the 1980's a Avelanca Plane crashed in Long Island NY, crashed in the houses, WHY, He ran out of FUEL.

And they did not have the fuel crisis like they have now.

SO it is not a power trip or pilots crying cause they have to go to training. I think it is hididous for the bean counters to tell the pilots how much to put in the plane to save a buck. It is being dictated by the almighty $$$$

IMHO, I feel USAir will be a victim to this fuel crisis and fold maybe sometime next year. they are doing everything to make up for loses due to the fuel price, Starting two weeks from now fork over $2 for a can of soda.

Bring your dvd player cause not movies will be on board anymore, etc....

Yogi

BS!!! I am very aware of the FAR's and how the aircraft operates. When the fuel load is figured, all of this is taken into account. The winds, if they may have to fly around a storm etc. All information is entered into a very complex computer program that takes everything into account. And they are given the correct amount of fuel for the given conditions plus the extra fuel needed.

The problem is when the pilot just does not want to be told what to do. Or they want to fly a little faster so that they can make their tee time or get to their destination faster so they can spend more time with their girlfriend before returning to their spouse.

And yes, there have been crashes due to running out of fuel. But I have not read any NTSB findings that said it was due to the amount of planned fuel. Every report that I have read has been to to some other error, not the planned fuel load.

I have absolutely no problem with myself or my family flying. Yes, the airlines are trying to save a buck. But in no way are they doing this in regards to safety. They have to do this to try to stay in business.

And yes, I do know what I am talking about, I am in the airline business and know how aircraft operate.

I been a Aircraft Technician for over 10 years. I am not new to aviation and I know how aircrafts operate also.

What is your role at your place of employment, I sure hope it does not involved making fuel loads.

How do you know if the Pilots want to go faster so they can get to their girlfriends or spouse?

That is a tough job and a lot of Reasonability. They carry 100's of lives daily. when you get on a plane, You put your life in there hands.

What if something happen when the plane is in flight? some weather popped up and they did not have that figured in the calculation?

why you say they are lazy and get pissy when someone over rides their judgement?

[yogib37 3]

Section 95.xx (dont know the exact rule) of the Federal Air Regs. States the Pilot in command is fully responsible for the safe operation of the aircraft and the pilots decesion is final.

So the airlines have no legal responsibility in the event of an accident?

Wouldn't a single crash due to this policy ruin US Airways financially and if it didn't, bad publicity would?

Are you an airline pilot?

Sure they have a Legal responsibility in case of the accident. Most likely it is pilot error. Sometime Maintenance or ATC

well I dont think they will crash, but imho that they will be not be flying at the end of next year. Some others will belly up also.

USAirways is getting a lot of BAD Publicity in recent weeks also.

[LaGreenEyes 0]

This will be seen as pilots whining - until there is an instance of a close call because the plane didnt carry enough fuel.

I dont see why a pilot would make issue about this unless their are geniune concerns - after all he doesnt foot the bill for the fuel or get brownie points for having more fuel - however HE/SHE is considered responsible for the aircraft and who gets it in the neck when things go wrong?

It's because they think they are gods and they should be able to do whatever they want. And anytime that some of their power is taken away from them, they get pissed off. This is nothing to do with safety and everything to do with their power trip.

And no matter how bad they screw up or cause problems, pilots never get in trouble.

Dude,

You surely do not know much about aviation. It is not about a power trip, and It is about safety. The Plane is required to have enough fuel to make it to where it is supposed to go then enough to make it if it needed to be diverted plus 45 mins extra in case of holding pattern, or Strong head winds, etc..

They are not whining cause they get they have to take less fuel onboard.

I strongly stand behind the Pilots on this. The Pliot can over ride the decesion of managment and tell them to PLuck OFF,

Section 95.xx (dont know the exact rule) of the Federal Air Regs. States the Pilot in command is fully responsible for the safe operation of the aircraft and the pilots decesion is final.

So if he wants to put a extra 15 mins of fuel on board, he can by the FAR's If he feels it will make it safer.

I think you will change your mind if you were on the plane or your fiancee was on the plane coming to the USA and the plane went down cause they had min. fuel load.

Back in the 1980's a Avelanca Plane crashed in Long Island NY, crashed in the houses, WHY, He ran out of FUEL.

And they did not have the fuel crisis like they have now.

SO it is not a power trip or pilots crying cause they have to go to training. I think it is hididous for the bean counters to tell the pilots how much to put in the plane to save a buck. It is being dictated by the almighty $$$$

IMHO, I feel USAir will be a victim to this fuel crisis and fold maybe sometime next year. they are doing everything to make up for loses due to the fuel price, Starting two weeks from now fork over $2 for a can of soda.

Bring your dvd player cause not movies will be on board anymore, etc....

Yogi

BS!!! I am very aware of the FAR's and how the aircraft operates. When the fuel load is figured, all of this is taken into account. The winds, if they may have to fly around a storm etc. All information is entered into a very complex computer program that takes everything into account. And they are given the correct amount of fuel for the given conditions plus the extra fuel needed.

The problem is when the pilot just does not want to be told what to do. Or they want to fly a little faster so that they can make their tee time or get to their destination faster so they can spend more time with their girlfriend before returning to their spouse.

And yes, there have been crashes due to running out of fuel. But I have not read any NTSB findings that said it was due to the amount of planned fuel. Every report that I have read has been to to some other error, not the planned fuel load.

I have absolutely no problem with myself or my family flying. Yes, the airlines are trying to save a buck. But in no way are they doing this in regards to safety. They have to do this to try to stay in business.

And yes, I do know what I am talking about, I am in the airline business and know how aircraft operate.

I been a Aircraft Technician for over 10 years. I am not new to aviation and I know how aircrafts operate also.

What is your role at your place of employment, I sure hope it does not involved making fuel loads.

How do you know if the Pilots want to go faster so they can get to their girlfriends or spouse?

That is a tough job and a lot of Reasonability. They carry 100's of lives daily. when you get on a plane, You put your life in there hands.

What if something happen when the plane is in flight? some weather popped up and they did not have that figured in the calculation?

why you say they are lazy and get pissy when someone over rides their judgement?

I'm also in aviation..work for an airline that is NOT U.S. Airways, and a plane has a bit of "extra" fuel built into the fuel plan. If there is something that happens inflight they divert to an alternate airport for extra fuel. All flight plans have an alt, most have 2. IMHO this is more turning into a pilot union against the company deal. If the pilot has an extra 15 minutes of fuel, that means in a bad weather situation they can push back from the gate with "extra" fuel to burn and sit out on the runway for extra time instead of at the gate..because when that door closes, they start getting PAID $$$$. Meanwhile, wasting fuel and keeping the passengers sitting on the runway instead of being able to be still at the gate.

MOST commercial airline pilots DO get pissy when someone overrides their judgement. There is more than just the pilot involved in passenger safety and 9 times out of 10 they forget everyone else.

[alienlovechild 75]

what was my boo boo? . . .so if you think I am wrong chime in with your opinion.

You may have been busy after posting your opposition to the reduced fuel policy but you didn't answer anybody's questions or comment so it looked like you gave it up. I appreciate that you got around to answering my questions and told us something about yourself. That's classier than the average poster here.

Sure they have a Legal responsibility in case of the accident. Most likely it is pilot error. Sometime Maintenance or ATC well I dont think they will crash, but imho that they will be not be flying at the end of next year. Some others will belly up also. USAirways is getting a lot of BAD Publicity in recent weeks also.

So even you don't think the planes will crash so why all of your opposition? If US Airways is out of business by the end of next year and other airlines as well, won't they have to cut other costs or raise ticket prices?

The bad publicity could be offset by cheapskates like me wanting cheap tickets but a crash would scare off a lot of flyers.

Edited July 20, 2008 by alienlovechild

[Steve Y Jessica 1]

what's the difference between a pilot and a jet engine?

the jet engine stops whining after shutdown.