PILOTS:US AIRWAYS UNSAFE

[pepper 34]

PILOTS SAY THEY FEEL PRESSURE TO CUT BACK ON FUEL

NEW YORK (CNN) -- U.S. Airways is pressuring pilots to use less fuel, undermining their authority and possibly compromising safety, according to a spokesman for the U.S. Airline Pilots Association.

U.S. Airways says it wants pilots to balance an appropriate amount of fuel with rising gas prices.

Eight pilots and their union have filed complaints with the Federal Aviation Administration, accusing the airline of infringing on their authority and making them fly with less fuel than they feel is safe, said James Ray, a spokesman for the U.S. Airline Pilots Association.

The pilot in command of each flight determines the amount of fuel carried. FAA regulations state that each flight is required to carry enough fuel to reach its destination plus an extra 45 minutes' worth.

The eight senior captains say U.S. Airways singled them out for carrying 10 to 15 minutes of extra fuel above the FAA mandate and called them in for "fuel conservation training," Ray said.

Ray said the training amounts to "intimidation" and said the pilots feel it could place their licenses in jeopardy if they request extra fuel. Watch a report on the pilots' claims »

"Captains have been singled out for exercising their judgment on determining fuel loads for their flights," he said.

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But a spokesman for U.S. Airways insisted the training is not punitive and denied the pilots' jobs were in danger.

"We are absolutely not employing intimidation tactics to pressure pilots into operating aircraft with unsafe fuel levels," Morgan Durrant said. "Safety is the number one priority in everything we do."

Durrant said the airline organized the paid, one-day training session to review safety practices and emphasize the need to use appropriate fuel levels in a time of necessary conservation. iReport.com: Are the skies still friendly?

Extra fuel makes the plane heavier, causing it to burn more fuel as it flies. A gallon of jet fuel weighs almost 7 pounds, and a large, twin-engine jetliner can burn hundreds of pounds of fuel an hour.

"Our arrival fuel amounts on average are more than twice the FAA minimum standards," Durrant said. "With the high price of oil, it is a balance between having enough to travel safely and also flying efficiently."

U.S. Airways said it will pay $2 billion more in fuel costs than it did last year.

In the complaint, the pilots said the training undermines their authority to determine how much fuel is necessary.

"If a pilot doesn't feel that a plane has enough fuel in it for the trip that he or she is about to make, then they have the discretion of not flying that flight," Transportation Secretary Mary Peters said Wednesday.

Edited July 20, 2008 by RussellandMarie

[Mags 112]

I presume they're babbling on about the weight the extra fuel makes, and thusly that uses more fuel on the trip. Cause the pilots are, in theory, not actually wasting fuel as the tanks just get topped off at the airport...

[Steve Y Jessica 1]

I presume they're babbling on about the weight the extra fuel makes, and thusly that uses more fuel on the trip. Cause the pilots are, in theory, not actually wasting fuel as the tanks just get topped off at the airport...

Yes, it is because, the weight of the extra fuel causes you to burn more fuel. So yes, you do burn more fuel and waste it.

Airline pilots are just whining bi*****!!! There is nothing unsafe about this.

[pepper 34]

I presume they're babbling on about the weight the extra fuel makes, and thusly that uses more fuel on the trip. Cause the pilots are, in theory, not actually wasting fuel as the tanks just get topped off at the airport...

Yes, it is because, the weight of the extra fuel causes you to burn more fuel. So yes, you do burn more fuel and waste it.

Airline pilots are just whining bi*****!!! There is nothing unsafe about this.

and you are probably right!!!

[truffles 2]

This will be seen as pilots whining - until there is an instance of a close call because the plane didnt carry enough fuel.

I dont see why a pilot would make issue about this unless their are geniune concerns - after all he doesnt foot the bill for the fuel or get brownie points for having more fuel - however HE/SHE is considered responsible for the aircraft and who gets it in the neck when things go wrong?

[Steve Y Jessica 1]

This will be seen as pilots whining - until there is an instance of a close call because the plane didnt carry enough fuel.

I dont see why a pilot would make issue about this unless their are geniune concerns - after all he doesnt foot the bill for the fuel or get brownie points for having more fuel - however HE/SHE is considered responsible for the aircraft and who gets it in the neck when things go wrong?

It's because they think they are gods and they should be able to do whatever they want. And anytime that some of their power is taken away from them, they get pissed off. This is nothing to do with safety and everything to do with their power trip.

And no matter how bad they screw up or cause problems, pilots never get in trouble.

[yogib37 3]

This will be seen as pilots whining - until there is an instance of a close call because the plane didnt carry enough fuel.

I dont see why a pilot would make issue about this unless their are geniune concerns - after all he doesnt foot the bill for the fuel or get brownie points for having more fuel - however HE/SHE is considered responsible for the aircraft and who gets it in the neck when things go wrong?

It's because they think they are gods and they should be able to do whatever they want. And anytime that some of their power is taken away from them, they get pissed off. This is nothing to do with safety and everything to do with their power trip.

And no matter how bad they screw up or cause problems, pilots never get in trouble.

Dude,

You surely do not know much about aviation. It is not about a power trip, and It is about safety. The Plane is required to have enough fuel to make it to where it is supposed to go then enough to make it if it needed to be diverted plus 45 mins extra in case of holding pattern, or Strong head winds, etc..

They are not whining cause they get they have to take less fuel onboard.

I strongly stand behind the Pilots on this. The Pliot can over ride the decesion of managment and tell them to PLuck OFF,

Section 95.xx (dont know the exact rule) of the Federal Air Regs. States the Pilot in command is fully responsible for the safe operation of the aircraft and the pilots decesion is final.

So if he wants to put a extra 15 mins of fuel on board, he can by the FAR's If he feels it will make it safer.

I think you will change your mind if you were on the plane or your fiancee was on the plane coming to the USA and the plane went down cause they had min. fuel load.

Back in the 1980's a Avelanca Plane crashed in Long Island NY, crashed in the houses, WHY, He ran out of FUEL.

And they did not have the fuel crisis like they have now.

SO it is not a power trip or pilots crying cause they have to go to training. I think it is hididous for the bean counters to tell the pilots how much to put in the plane to save a buck. It is being dictated by the almighty $$$$

IMHO, I feel USAir will be a victim to this fuel crisis and fold maybe sometime next year. they are doing everything to make up for loses due to the fuel price, Starting two weeks from now fork over $2 for a can of soda.

Bring your dvd player cause not movies will be on board anymore, etc....

Yogi

[Ms. Squirrel 11]

I am flying with US Airways to Charlotte in a month. So I only cross read the article and will just not worry.

[Dan J 277]

I presume they're babbling on about the weight the extra fuel makes, and thusly that uses more fuel on the trip. Cause the pilots are, in theory, not actually wasting fuel as the tanks just get topped off at the airport...

Planes are usually only given enough fuel for the route. Plus a certain extra margin. In case the fight cannot land where it intends.

What airline is doing here, is cutting that margin down.

[yogib37 3]

I presume they're babbling on about the weight the extra fuel makes, and thusly that uses more fuel on the trip. Cause the pilots are, in theory, not actually wasting fuel as the tanks just get topped off at the airport...

Planes are usually only given enough fuel for the route. Plus a certain extra margin. In case the fight cannot land where it intends.

What airline is doing here, is cutting that margin down.

they are saving a $$$ at the cost of People's safety and well being.

I hate USAirways..they are a crapy run airline and piss poor service.

[alienlovechild 75]

Section 95.xx (dont know the exact rule) of the Federal Air Regs. States the Pilot in command is fully responsible for the safe operation of the aircraft and the pilots decesion is final.

So the airlines have no legal responsibility in the event of an accident?

Wouldn't a single crash due to this policy ruin US Airways financially and if it didn't, bad publicity would?

Are you an airline pilot?

Edited July 20, 2008 by alienlovechild

[Sassy1natl 0]

[Steve Y Jessica 1]

This will be seen as pilots whining - until there is an instance of a close call because the plane didnt carry enough fuel.

I dont see why a pilot would make issue about this unless their are geniune concerns - after all he doesnt foot the bill for the fuel or get brownie points for having more fuel - however HE/SHE is considered responsible for the aircraft and who gets it in the neck when things go wrong?

It's because they think they are gods and they should be able to do whatever they want. And anytime that some of their power is taken away from them, they get pissed off. This is nothing to do with safety and everything to do with their power trip.

And no matter how bad they screw up or cause problems, pilots never get in trouble.

Dude,

You surely do not know much about aviation. It is not about a power trip, and It is about safety. The Plane is required to have enough fuel to make it to where it is supposed to go then enough to make it if it needed to be diverted plus 45 mins extra in case of holding pattern, or Strong head winds, etc..

They are not whining cause they get they have to take less fuel onboard.

I strongly stand behind the Pilots on this. The Pliot can over ride the decesion of managment and tell them to PLuck OFF,

Section 95.xx (dont know the exact rule) of the Federal Air Regs. States the Pilot in command is fully responsible for the safe operation of the aircraft and the pilots decesion is final.

So if he wants to put a extra 15 mins of fuel on board, he can by the FAR's If he feels it will make it safer.

I think you will change your mind if you were on the plane or your fiancee was on the plane coming to the USA and the plane went down cause they had min. fuel load.

Back in the 1980's a Avelanca Plane crashed in Long Island NY, crashed in the houses, WHY, He ran out of FUEL.

And they did not have the fuel crisis like they have now.

SO it is not a power trip or pilots crying cause they have to go to training. I think it is hididous for the bean counters to tell the pilots how much to put in the plane to save a buck. It is being dictated by the almighty $$$$

IMHO, I feel USAir will be a victim to this fuel crisis and fold maybe sometime next year. they are doing everything to make up for loses due to the fuel price, Starting two weeks from now fork over $2 for a can of soda.

Bring your dvd player cause not movies will be on board anymore, etc....

Yogi

BS!!! I am very aware of the FAR's and how the aircraft operates. When the fuel load is figured, all of this is taken into account. The winds, if they may have to fly around a storm etc. All information is entered into a very complex computer program that takes everything into account. And they are given the correct amount of fuel for the given conditions plus the extra fuel needed.

The problem is when the pilot just does not want to be told what to do. Or they want to fly a little faster so that they can make their tee time or get to their destination faster so they can spend more time with their girlfriend before returning to their spouse.

And yes, there have been crashes due to running out of fuel. But I have not read any NTSB findings that said it was due to the amount of planned fuel. Every report that I have read has been to to some other error, not the planned fuel load.

I have absolutely no problem with myself or my family flying. Yes, the airlines are trying to save a buck. But in no way are they doing this in regards to safety. They have to do this to try to stay in business.

And yes, I do know what I am talking about, I am in the airline business and know how aircraft operate.

[Steve Y Jessica 1]

When I was working down in Sao Paulo. We had a pilot say he needed 4000 lbs more fuel. Well this extra fuel put weight restrictions on the aircraft. Well, his family was flying stand-by on this flight. But with the weight restrictions, no stand-bys were going to get on. When he found out that his family was not going to be able to get on the flight, all of the sudden he was demanding that fuel be removed to lift the weight restrictions.

So, if you are telling me that he ONLY requests more fuel when it is for the safety of the aircraft. Then at this time, he was risking the safety of all of the other passengers just so his family could get on the flight.

Exactly which FAR does this fall under???

Edited July 20, 2008 by Steve Y Jessica

[alienlovechild 75]

Looks like yogi made a boo boo on this thread.