That leap of faith...

[terri o'neale 0]

You speak about fraud...but what really is fraud? You know until the past century or so love and marriage were not synonomous. And often times even now in some (perhaps even most) cultures they still aren't. Marriage was about a deal...a contract...a covenant with another person, another family, or another village. Given that so many cultures still function that way I have to question is it really fraud or is it simply another type of reality/relationship which we simply do not understand. Totally playing devils advocate if the deal is a better country, better housing, better clothes, better food and in exchange you get maid service, sex, and obedience...who am I to call that arrangement any less valid...if both people agreed and understood what they were buying.

I say this from hindsight. As I was going my divorce about 7 years ago, my youngest son then had a best friend whose mother was from Indonesia. They had been married over ten years. She would complain about her husband not allowing her to work. I was like...not allowing...this is America...do what you want now. But that wasn't their deal or her culture. She eventually introduced her younger sister to one of his older friends...and they were over 15 years age difference to begin with. It was their culture, their reality. They would have been sold in mariage anyway...she just got the best deal she could. And so did he...cause someone like me sure wouldn't have bought the whole allow thing. They produed two beautiful children, had a good life and last I heard are still married...20 years maybe...or darn near it.

Personally I don't understand it...and could never be a part of such an arrangement. But what is love anyway?

PS...Go ahead I know I'm gonna be flamed...pwaned (what is that anyway?) But I just wanted to logically point out that alot of this cultural. I don't think USCIS requires love for it to be a valid relationship...maybe I'm wrong?

Terri, as an Indonesian women, I can tell you this...yes there are some 'old' traditional cultures back home from many different tribes that still do this kinda of arrange marriage things. However not all Indonesian women are bound to be sold in marriage. Just FYI from another Indonesian women on board who married a westerner...I saw and heard about that kinda stories all the time and I just feel like you should know that not all Indonesian women are 'trapped' in that way.

That's just it...she never saw it as trapped. She was evidently pleased enough with the whole situation that she encouraged her baby sister to pursue the same alternative. My point was I never understood it really and I definitely could have never lived like that myself...but it worked for them.

[MichelleandCraig 1]

Larry, that was a really sweet post. Between you and Merc,(sorry for those sweet guys out there I forgot) you're giving your gender a really good rep on this thread!!!! (F) All the best to you, (and all of us!) M.

[Laura_and_IanM 0]

Ok, of course I need to respond to Jenns comments about fraud and what not. I don't think it would be right that the USCIS favours relationships that have started what you may think as being the right way. What makes a relationship that has started out where the couple lives in the same country as one another as the right way? Or that you have so called properly dated the right way?? There are many many marriages based in America that have ended up in fraud. It isn't just for relationships like these. My step sister married a guy and was with him for 10 years had just had a child with him when she got a knock on the door from the FBI because her husband had been arrested for stealing skis at some famous ski resort and selling drugs!!! SHE HAD NO CLUE...(now I am sure someone is going to say come on how did she not know? trust me she had no clue. She was in therapy for many years getting over the shock alone). Fraud can happen in any type of relationship NO MATTER HOW IT STARTED. Who are you to sit there and decide what relationship works and which one doesn't??? Ian and I started talking in 2004. We met in Jan. 2005. We were together for 2 or 3 weeks. We met up again in Florida in May 2005 and were together for 10 days. I then booked a flight to go be with him for summer break (as at the time i was in college) and was to stay with him for 3 months. We decided that we wanted to make sure that marriage is what we wanted so I stayed longer. Come february 2006 we got engaged. We were married in April. Why the short engagement? Because my visa runs out soon! But that doesn't mean that we rushed our decision to get married. We did take our time. And who the hell is to say that taking your time is the best way??? I have known couples that have been together for years before they got married and they ended up in divorce, yet I also know couples that knew each other for a few hours before they got married and stayed together for 60+ years..I know couples who have done that within the past few years and they are still married. Time has nothing to do with it. THe way you date has nothing to do with it. It all falls down to real love and what is true in your heart. I knew from day one in my first marriage that it wasn't going to last but I had my exs family telling me that if we didnt get married then my child that I was carrying was going to be a #######. That is what I had to contend with. I was young and my family was non supportive if nothing more. I had no one to talk to. ONly had this family telling me that i was going to go to hell. Yes that I was going to hell for getting pregnant out of wedlock and the only way to make it right was to get married!!! The difference with Ian?? I have none of that and I knew from the moment I laid eyes on him that my heart was not telling me fibs, that indeed I was in love with him and indeed he was the one for me. Yes we have arguments like any other normal couple. But we know how to COMMUNICATE and we talk things out. More often then not though, we laugh and we laugh.

Fraud?? Jesus, I don't think fraud had anything to do with this original thread. I think you my friend are just throwing anything and everything out there to dispute your feelings on the matter. First it was because you didnt believe in online relationships, now you are throwing fraud into this? I don't judge people on how they met. It is very narrow minded. You have just questioned the authenticity of numerous relationships on this site, and I for one am not going to let ANYONE question whether or not my relationship is valid or not. You talk to all of our friends that know us...really know us, and they will all tell you that you take one look at Ian and I when we are in the same room together, and you will see it in our eyes. I love watching Ian move, listening to him talk, I love feeling him pull me close with his strong arms and making me feel safe and secure. He loves watching me interact with people, loves watching me laugh and how my eyes scruntch up when I do, he loves when I act silly and goofy, he loves how I stand firm in my beliefs and how I don't let people bring me down. Is this not all part of what you call a NORMAL AND VALID RELATIONSHIP??? These feelings?? The original topic was meant to be leap of faith, you have just taken it off topic and have spun it into your own because you don't believe in online relationships which is self righteous ( i don't remember who originally said that but i do agree). I took a big leap of faith coming back to England, but if I had had any doubts about Ian in my head, then I wouldn't have come. He knows that. And I also know that Ian would never do anything WITHOUT thinking about it. In fact that is one thing that does annoy me about him, but then again I love it at the same time, and that is how he thinks and thinks and then thinks some more about things before doing it. In a way sometimes he can over analyze. But you have to remember, Ian is taking a big leap of faith in me as well and in our relationship because he is the one that is moving to America, packing it all in and moving away from his children, his family, friends and giving up his job. Why? So he can have a life with his wife...ME!!!!

Now let the flaming begin..I reckon there will be some..all I can say is bring it on because I believe very strongly in this. Before I sign off and sit back and wait, let me also remind you the this LIMBRA thing..it also slows down for EVERYONE, and what about the amnesty issue? How fair is that for those of us who are doing it legally??? Don't start blaming certain types of relationships because your immigration process is taking time. That is essentially what you are doing.

Laura Mitchell

[Jenn! 918]

You've bored me.

I have a right to feel however I want to about anyone's relationship and it is none of your concern. It seems like you, my friend, have some sort of inferiority complex. Why do you give a flying #### what I think of your relationship? I sure don't care what you think of mine.

For your information, as I've stated about a thousand times here, I do not have a problem with online relationships. I have a problem with peope who IMMIGRATE to this country on the basis of a relationship where they've spent minimal time in person with their future life partner. This is sometimes the way online relationships work, but again, it is not the ONLINE part of it that bothers me.

I have a feeling that you've heard all of this before in "real life", and that is why you've become so defensive. It should not come as a huge shock to you that some people may feel this way.

There are some people who probably believe that my husband shouldnt have been allowed to immigrate to this country for various reasons that I don't agree with. But I don't feel the need to change all of their minds.

Edited May 19, 2006 by jenn3539

[Sister Fracas 5]

I have a problem with peope who IMMIGRATE to this country on the basis of a relationship where they've spent minimal time in person with their future life partner.

why? who the hell cares how anyone else's relationship started? how does it affect you any? shouldn't you just be concerned with your own immigration situation? or are you still worried that one of these perhaps unworthy people might cut in front of you?

[Laura_and_IanM 0]

LMFAO Inferiority complex? Nah...not at all my friend. I don't give a flying leap why people don't agree with relationships like mine and many others. What I do care about are flippant answers such as yours.

You say you are bored of me now...hmmmm am I BOTHERED??? NO

Laura Mitchell

[Laura_and_IanM 0]

Oh yeah..forgot to ask...as in "REAL LIFE"...are you meaning outside of the internet? Because if you are...then that would mean that none of this being passed back and forth is real right? So..with that being said,..you and your answers are not real. Hmmm...I will have to tell Ian that what we have isn't so real..

Laura Mitchell

[CarolineM 0]

Not to butt in, but isn't everyone entitled to his or her own opinion. SHe has a right to be bothered by it. She has a right to state her opinion.

As weve always said before this is a PUBLIC INTERNET FORUM where differing opinions are welcomed!

You are never going to get EVERYONE Here to agree with everything.

[rooster 1]

Laura,

LisaD & Jenn have stated in previous posts in this thread that they were NOT passing judgement on you or me or anyone else. They just stated that they had concerns. They also stated that it was their own PERSONAL opinion and nothing else. I posted earlier opposing their views. I understand your strong feelings about this. I have my own. But, there is really no reason to get upset and irate. This thread has for the most part, been a discussion between mature people with different views. I hope it stays that way. It has been interesting thus far.

Bruce

edited cause I forgot about the spellcheck LOL

Edited May 19, 2006 by rooster

[Laura_and_IanM 0]

Bruce I appreciate your comment. Honestly though, I am far from irate. I don't have a probem with Jenn opposing online relationships or couples meeting once then getting married, but I do have a problem with flippant answers and people saying that just because of the way we met that we should be treated differently in the way we get our spouses green card. It's almost as if she wants us to be segragated amongst those who have met in a more traditional way and have courted in a more traditional way. First of all, I don't see how anyone can possibly do things that way when they marry someone from another country due to traveling, finances, and lets not forget here...the laws! I know on my passport just on a one go I am alloted 6 months of stay without public recourse, and Ian is only alloted 3 months. Well, such as it is, there is a thing called life that happens and for most of us, we cannot just take that time off and afford to spend what one would validate as being legit time to get to know a person and properly court them.

I personally don't care who opposes my online relationship. I've lost my mother and the rest of my family on account of them considering me to be dead to them because of my relationship with a BRIT and that it was an internet "thing" as they call it. It only shows their narrowmindedness. I do NOT CARE. lol. If I did care, then I would not have married him and brought him into that kind of environment, but seeing as to how I am now dead, guess that doesnt really matter. In fact, before I even came back to the UK, my mother had my aunt calling me telling me that if I didn't carry this relationship out, then she would give me my inheritance now. And we are talking a lot of money here. But..to me...love and happiness is what matters. It shouldnt matter how you meet. And how you meet shouldnt matter when it comes to getting your green card. I would think that Jenn would be more pissed off over this amnesty thing. Now there is a real issue. At least I can say that my husband and I are doing it the LEGAL way.

Laura Mitchell

[CarolineM 0]

I don't have a probem with Jenn opposing online relationships

Ok if that's what you got out of all of Jenn's post,...you CLEARLY need to re-read. YOu are SERIOUSLY missing the point.

Now there is a real issue. At least I can say that my husband and I are doing it the LEGAL way.

can we NOT get into this issue again, please...that's a whole other issue altogether.

[Laura_and_IanM 0]

You think I missed her point?? LMFAO no, no, no. I so Have not missed her point. Its funny how ppl tend to read what they want to read. I get her point loud and clear. She doesn't agree with ppl like us getting a green card that same way ppl like her get one. She even said it herself maybe not in so many words, but it was said.

I do get it. Doesnt mean I have to like it. Werent you the one who said prior that we are all entitled to our own opinions??

Laura Mitchell

QUOTE

Now there is a real issue. At least I can say that my husband and I are doing it the LEGAL way.

can we NOT get into this issue again, please...that's a whole other issue altogether.

Ummm..she was the one who brought up LIMBRA in a previous post. It all ties in somewhere.

Edited May 19, 2006 by ljwinquist

[CarolineM 0]

Yes you are entitled to your opinion, but you are taking her opinions and running wild with them.

Whatever. Impossible to change people who are blinded by personal reactions!

[Jenn! 918]

I give up. If you keep looking for insults, you will find them.

[CarolineM 0]

I give up. If you keep looking for insults, you will find them.