That leap of faith...

[Jenn! 918]

Fraud is an entirely different matter from what we have been discussing. Or at least from what I THOUGHT we were discussing.

Well then I guess I've been unclear. When there is fraud, that usually leads to the marriage not lasting. My intention has been to point out that having an established relationship (that is, at the least several meetings and a fairly "long-term" relationship), I THINK, has less chance of being used for fraudulent purposes than a recently-entered relationship where the couple has met a single time.

Like I said, I don't object to people getting married after short-periods of time, that's their business. But when in doing so, they get a road to a green card, it bothers me.

[MichelleandCraig 1]

Yeap...I didn't think fraud was what we were talking about either..maybe I misunderstood? Thought this whole discussion was about how long(this part of it anyway) people have been together, and their chances of working out based on that. Maybe I misunderstood all your previous posts?? M.

Ok..just read your above post...hmmm... to me, that's even worse then. Craig and I were lucky...he spent 3 months here, 2 1/2 months AFTER the visa before marriage, and I spent 2 weeks there...so 6 months of being together. Fraud???? I think not...he had no desparation to move to America, believe ME!! the desparation was for us to be together...I think the same applies for people from SOOOO many varied countries that we have here. Obviously, even on this board, it does happen...but I don't think it's the 'norm' either. Doesn't matter where you were born..if you meet the one you were meant to be with, there should never be any 'jumping in line'. We each have our own opinions on it, and that's fine. But I couldn't ever feel the way you do...that's now clear from the last few posts. But hey..we all disagree on a lot of things, so live and let live I guess....

M.

Edited May 18, 2006 by MichelleandCraig

[Mand 1]

As a couple who met in Ireland, lived together in Ireland, and had all the other face-to-face couple things, I have to disagree with your idea of couples such as myself and Rob getting preferential treatment. Where do you draw the line? The only thing I feel (immigration wise) we had extra was supporting documentation...lease, bills, etc. I never expected to be shuttled to the front of the line because of our situation.

The reality is, that the internet has opened up a wider world for people. Should people be told their case is not as important because they met online...I think that's a slap in the face to these couples.

[MichelleandCraig 1]

tried to edit but couldn't..sorry. I just wanted to add, that anyone intending to commit fraud will often wait a long time(ie many meetings, a long process due to being from a high-risk country,etc) to get here...so how does that show a better relationship if they're spent more time together in person?If they're being fraudulent, they'll wait it out,and ditch later. Oftentimes the REAL feelings are very well hidden in an attempt to move to America, if the person is really intent upon getting here. M.

[Jenn! 918]

Aaah, I've been continuing to give the example of a couple that has spent only a week together in person before applying for the K1. That is the situation that I find to be very risky. Yes, I think the risk is higher BECAUSE the potential for fraud is greater. Fraud against the government and fraud against a broken-hearted USC. People seemed to lacth on to the "online thing" and turn it around so that I was saying that I thought online relationships were doomed to failure or something.

tried to edit but couldn't..sorry. I just wanted to add, that anyone intending to commit fraud will often wait a long time(ie many meetings, a long process due to being from a high-risk country,etc) to get here...so how does that show a better relationship if they're spent more time together in person?If they're being fraudulent, they'll wait it out,and ditch later. Oftentimes the REAL feelings are very well hidden in an attempt to move to America, if the person is really intent upon getting here. M.

It is much easier to convince someone of something online, or to keep up an act for a week-long visit. Trying to keep up an act like that for a year straight would be more challenging. Not saying that it doesn't happen, and not saying that there are any guarantees...

[Fandango 1,440]

Well, Off this topic, but in the instances of fraud, I would say people who have lived together and can provve documentation of this (TO ME) seem like a less fraudulent K than one who's met once & don't speak a fluent common language.

But that's not what I mean by my orignial post here, I want that to be clear.

[Cassie 8]

Aaah, I've been continuing to give the example of a couple that has spent only a week together in person before applying for the K1. That is the situation that I find to be very risky. Yes, I think the risk is higher BECAUSE the potential for fraud is greater. Fraud against the government and fraud against a broken-hearted USC. People seemed to lacth on to the "online thing" and turn it around so that I was saying that I thought online relationships were doomed to failure or something.

I have to agree with you a bit there, Jenn. I personally get a smidgen worried about those couples who have spent a minimal time together in person AND have a huge language barrier to overcome, I worry that things may get lost in translation. But then again, it's their lives, not mine, and they have to live with the consequences of their decisions.

[Jenn! 918]

Well, Off this topic, but in the instances of fraud, I would say people who have lived together and can provve documentation of this (TO ME) seem like a less fraudulent K than one who's met once & don't speak a fluent common language.

But that's not what I mean by my orignial post here, I want that to be clear.

Sorry for totally derailing your thread, Lisa. Either I misunderstood your post to mean the leap of faith that you're not being used for a green card rather than the leap of faith that your relationship will fail for other reasons, or I gradually changed the topic in my head as the post went on and neglected to inform everyone.

My bad.

[rebeccajo 14]

tried to edit but couldn't..sorry. I just wanted to add, that anyone intending to commit fraud will often wait a long time(ie many meetings, a long process due to being from a high-risk country,etc) to get here...so how does that show a better relationship if they're spent more time together in person?If they're being fraudulent, they'll wait it out,and ditch later. Oftentimes the REAL feelings are very well hidden in an attempt to move to America, if the person is really intent upon getting here. M.

I actually recently read (and damned if I can remember where) that length of relationship is found to be a NON-INDICATOR where fraud is concerned. According to that particular article, statistics showed that those manipulators who outright used USC's as a path to a green card were happy to wait however long it took - they had a committed petitioner fighting all their battles for them, and it would take just as long or longer to go look for another sap.

[Mand 1]

I think if people have been communicating for awhile, have feelings for each other, meet and decide to become engaged, we should trust their judgement as we don't know what goes on behind closed doors. However, if a family member or friend thinks they are jumping into things too fast, I'm sure they would talk to the person and make sure they are 100% positive about their decision.

I do understand where you're coming from, saying if people have not been talking for long, only meet briefly and then decide to become engaged, how you could see some issues there. Heck, I know if one of my sisters or friends was seeing someone for a short period of time (face-to-face) and then decided to become engaged, I'd be wondering if she was sure, if he was a good person, would it last? BUT we have to give people credit for their decisions.

[rebeccajo 14]

Well, Off this topic, but in the instances of fraud, I would say people who have lived together and can provve documentation of this (TO ME) seem like a less fraudulent K than one who's met once & don't speak a fluent common language.

But that's not what I mean by my orignial post here, I want that to be clear.

Sorry for totally derailing your thread, Lisa. Either I misunderstood your post to mean the leap of faith that you're not being used for a green card rather than the leap of faith that your relationship will fail for other reasons, or I gradually changed the topic in my head as the post went on and neglected to inform everyone.

My bad.

I think I'm glad you explained yourself too, Jenn. And I apologize if I got 'riled up'.

Edited May 18, 2006 by rebeccajo

[hockeygal 0]

I personally get a smidgen worried about those couples who have spent a minimal time together in person AND have a huge language barrier to overcome, I worry that things may get lost in translation. But then again, it's their lives, not mine, and they have to live with the consequences of their decisions.

ok, THIS is what I thought this whole thread was about from the getgo.

It has been interesting to read all the other dialogues that have branched off from it though...

I think if people have been communicating for awhile, have feelings for each other, meet and decide to become engaged, we should trust their judgement as we don't know what goes on behind closed doors.

yes. I admitted to feeling a little nervous, but I also think if it feels right to them, they should follow their heart.

Edited May 18, 2006 by hockeygal

[MichelleandCraig 1]

tried to edit but couldn't..sorry. I just wanted to add, that anyone intending to commit fraud will often wait a long time(ie many meetings, a long process due to being from a high-risk country,etc) to get here...so how does that show a better relationship if they're spent more time together in person?If they're being fraudulent, they'll wait it out,and ditch later. Oftentimes the REAL feelings are very well hidden in an attempt to move to America, if the person is really intent upon getting here. M.

I actually recently read (and damned if I can remember where) that length of relationship is found to be a NON-INDICATOR where fraud is concerned. According to that particular article, statistics showed that those manipulators who outright used USC's as a path to a green card were happy to wait however long it took - they had a committed petitioner fighting all their battles for them, and it would take just as long or longer to go look for another sap.

That's what I tend to think as well..exactly that. Glad you read something that could back it up.Marriages like this often go right through to the Green card, and that's when we hear about them breaking up....and sometimes, like you said Jenn, they are easier to suss out when living together and the USC realizes it before it's too late...but often, they probably play the doting husband or wife very well for a while at least, in order to meet their goals for the long term. M.

[Fandango 1,440]

Well, Off this topic, but in the instances of fraud, I would say people who have lived together and can provve documentation of this (TO ME) seem like a less fraudulent K than one who's met once & don't speak a fluent common language.

But that's not what I mean by my orignial post here, I want that to be clear.

Sorry for totally derailing your thread, Lisa. Either I misunderstood your post to mean the leap of faith that you're not being used for a green card rather than the leap of faith that your relationship will fail for other reasons, or I gradually changed the topic in my head as the post went on and neglected to inform everyone.

My bad.

No I'm not admonishing you for it...that's not what I meant by that. I don't want people thinking I'm advocating anything visa-wise such as preferential treatment based over each other ...except in the instances where there's no common language fluently spoken with both parties. In that case, I'm sorry...but the communication is an issue, then where is the connection? As as aside I felt compelled to agree with that point you made. For instance, I don't feel the IMBRA law should affect everyone...but it seems to me like it is.

[Jenn! 918]

No I'm not admonishing you for it...that's not what I meant by that. I don't want people thinking I'm advocating anything visa-wise such as preferential treatment based over each other ...except in the instances where there's no common language fluently spoken with both parties. In that case, I'm sorry...but the communication is an issue, then where is the connection? As as aside I felt compelled to agree with that point you made. For instance, I don't feel the IMBRA law should affect everyone...but it seems to me like it is.

Don't worry, I wasn't feeling admonished.

Yes, I think the IMBRA is a perfect example of my point.