Will razing an apartment complex and turning them into townhouses reduce crime if the residents are the same?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I ran into this in our local news site... it sounds retarded. Elmwood Gardens today is basically an apartment complex, a bunch of buildings, three stories high... rough area. They're planning to tear it all down because of crime and put up townhouses instead, and offer them to the same residents.... how will that make a difference?

Excerpts follow:

PLAINFIELD —Citing irreversible problems associated with crime in and around the facility, the Housing Authority of Plainfield plans to raze the 120-unit Elmwood Gardens housing complex on W. Second Street and replace it with 80 town-home style units in a project estimated to last between three to five years.

"The buildings . . . have a number of issues that cannot be rectified," said HAP Executive Assistant Lewis Hurd during a presentation to the city Planning Board a week ago, stressing that renewal plans still were in their earliest stages. "The complex itself is an albatross to the agency because of the (criminal) activities that take place there."

...

Some [planning] board members also voiced skepticism as to whether the proposal ultimately would be able to significantly improve quality of life at the site. Board member William Toth worried that the "same kind of crime and same kind of problems" would transfer seamlessly from the current complex to the town homes, saying "Just changing the type of housing isn't necessarily going to solve those issues." Board Chairman Ken Robertson said "I'm just not sure that those town houses will work there."

Former city Councilwoman Joanne Hollis, who is now president of the Elm West Resident Association, a neighborhood organization that works closely with the housing authority, said she reluctantly supports the plan. Hollis, a resident of West End Gardens, cited continuing vandalism problems at Elmwood, including the repeated destruction of a large gate located at the front of the complex, as evidence it could be considered unsalvageable.

"Do I want them to go down? No. But do I have any other choice? No," Hollis said, calling it a "no-win situation" and estimating that around 25 percent of displaced tenants would return if the proposal comes to fruition. "Not all residents in Elmwood are bad people, but . . . (tenants) break out the lights, they break out the windows, bust into the basements, tear down the doors. To me, that says you don't want to have a place to live."

Despite urging prudence regarding the implementation of the plan, Mayor Sharon Robinson-Briggs said she was excited about the prospects of a possible renewal at the site, expressing particular optimism with the preliminary designs Hurd offered.

"What I really like about them is that if these buildings were built, you would not be able to look at them and say, "That's for low-income folks,' " Robinson-Briggs said, pointing out a contrast between the stark look of the brick-sided three-story structures currently dotting the complex and the inviting-looking town-home sketches.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I would guess the thinking is that reducing the population density will relieve some of the pressure, as well as making it more open-plan and reducing the sort of dingy back alleys and tunnels were people can be ambushed.

I've no idea how effective it would be - but certainly the fact that they're planning to develop town houses means that you would have fewer residents on the same area of land.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I would guess the thinking is that reducing the population density will relieve some of the pressure, as well as making it more open-plan and reducing the sort of dingy back alleys and tunnels were people can be ambushed.

I've no idea how effective it would be - but certainly the fact that they're planning to develop town houses means that you would have fewer residents on the same area of land.

Yes, there will be 33% fewer units (from the original article).

[Peikko 1,575]

Well, environment can play a part in the psycology of residents - a drab and rundown neighbourhood is not one that residents are much interested in trying to maintain or improve if it's so rundown it seems impossible and some petty crime does result from people having no vested interest in keeping their environment in good order. A nice environment probably does increase one's general level of positivity as well and we all know via Oprah of the power of positive thinking! (I jest, but it's not all #######)

However, if that is the only change - seem highly unlikely that things will change fundamentally if the reasons behind the run down neighbourhood are long term unemployment patterns.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Of course there are slum townhouse areas as well - places where houses are boarded up and left to ruin. I saw a couple of neighborhoods in Newark like that when I took a wrong turn off of Morris Avenue...

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Of course there are slum townhouse areas as well - places where houses are boarded up and left to ruin. I saw a couple of neighborhoods in Newark like that when I took a wrong turn off of Morris Avenue...

I may have seen those, also off Morris near Kean U. I thought that was Hillside?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Of course there are slum townhouse areas as well - places where houses are boarded up and left to ruin. I saw a couple of neighborhoods in Newark like that when I took a wrong turn off of Morris Avenue...

I may have seen those, also off Morris near Kean U. I thought that was Hillside?

There are a couple of boarded up houses in Hillside, but nothing that really compares with Elizabeth (which in turn pales into comparison with Newark). The place I saw was on the way to the Oranges - basically GPS took me on a rather nasty detour to a place where every other house was boarded up and where the public streets looked like they hadn't been resurfaced in 20 years.

[SMOKE 1,426]

Yes, there will be 33% fewer units (from the original article).

w/ a sizeable increase in rent? most of the current residents couldn't afford the homes "offered" to them. it could clean up the area a bit.

[SteveLaura 0]

Of course there are slum townhouse areas as well - places where houses are boarded up and left to ruin. I saw a couple of neighborhoods in Newark like that when I took a wrong turn off of Morris Avenue...

I may have seen those, also off Morris near Kean U. I thought that was Hillside?

There are a couple of boarded up houses in Hillside, but nothing that really compares with Elizabeth (which in turn pales into comparison with Newark). The place I saw was on the way to the Oranges - basically GPS took me on a rather nasty detour to a place where every other house was boarded up and where the public streets looked like they hadn't been resurfaced in 20 years.

Have you two ever met?

[Peikko 1,575]

I guess if you put the 33% of people who no longer have homes in prison it might work.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Yes, there will be 33% fewer units (from the original article).

w/ a sizeable increase in rent? most of the current residents couldn't afford the homes "offered" to them. it could clean up the area a bit.

No, the intent is to keep it "low income".

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Of course there are slum townhouse areas as well - places where houses are boarded up and left to ruin. I saw a couple of neighborhoods in Newark like that when I took a wrong turn off of Morris Avenue...

I may have seen those, also off Morris near Kean U. I thought that was Hillside?

There are a couple of boarded up houses in Hillside, but nothing that really compares with Elizabeth (which in turn pales into comparison with Newark). The place I saw was on the way to the Oranges - basically GPS took me on a rather nasty detour to a place where every other house was boarded up and where the public streets looked like they hadn't been resurfaced in 20 years.

Have you two ever met?

No. I think we're both of the view that meeting offline with online folks is a little weird. Though Amby is dead set on organising some sort of meet-up in August. I've not really made my mind up.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Of course there are slum townhouse areas as well - places where houses are boarded up and left to ruin. I saw a couple of neighborhoods in Newark like that when I took a wrong turn off of Morris Avenue...

I may have seen those, also off Morris near Kean U. I thought that was Hillside?

There are a couple of boarded up houses in Hillside, but nothing that really compares with Elizabeth (which in turn pales into comparison with Newark). The place I saw was on the way to the Oranges - basically GPS took me on a rather nasty detour to a place where every other house was boarded up and where the public streets looked like they hadn't been resurfaced in 20 years.

Have you two ever met?

Probably without realizing it

[SteveLaura 0]

Of course there are slum townhouse areas as well - places where houses are boarded up and left to ruin. I saw a couple of neighborhoods in Newark like that when I took a wrong turn off of Morris Avenue...

I may have seen those, also off Morris near Kean U. I thought that was Hillside?

There are a couple of boarded up houses in Hillside, but nothing that really compares with Elizabeth (which in turn pales into comparison with Newark). The place I saw was on the way to the Oranges - basically GPS took me on a rather nasty detour to a place where every other house was boarded up and where the public streets looked like they hadn't been resurfaced in 20 years.

Have you two ever met?

No. I think we're both of the view that meeting offline with online folks is a little weird. Though Amby is dead set on organising some sort of meet-up in August. I've not really made my mind up.

Yeah, my feeling too. If you change yer mind, tho, let us know. I'm curious how short he really is.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Yes, there will be 33% fewer units (from the original article).

w/ a sizeable increase in rent? most of the current residents couldn't afford the homes "offered" to them. it could clean up the area a bit.

No, the intent is to keep it "low income".

I wonder what they mean by "low income", given that my rent in the armpit of Elizabeth was over $100 higher than what I was paying in a nice, safe California Suburb.

At least there I didn't get drop-outs and degenerates hassling me for money at service stations.