Male Circumcision

[sandinista! 1,816]

plenty of arabs are called mikha'il.

is there any credibility to the passport thing? i've never seen that actually stated in writing on official websites. what if yr berber, or a jewish moroccan?

[rclouse 0]

rclouse,

Have you tried to get your son a Moroccan passport? I have heard that if your child does not have an Arabic name it isn't possible. Maybe there is some way around that with middle names, but I'm not sure...

We just registered his birth w/ the consulate and they used his middle name, Naseem. Good thing we decided to give him an Arabic middle name.

Stupid, though. Where do they get off deciding what names are acceptable?

/next boy: Hugh Janus Clouse

/girl: Mona Lott Clouse

[caybee 21]

rclouse,

Have you tried to get your son a Moroccan passport? I have heard that if your child does not have an Arabic name it isn't possible. Maybe there is some way around that with middle names, but I'm not sure...

FWIW, a Moroccan conditional PR friend of ours just returned from Morocco after taking his one-year-old son Adam for a visit, just the two of them. (I think Adam is one of the "approved" Arabic names.) The baby traveled on a U.S. passport. They didn't try to get him a Moroccan one yet -- father and son aren't yet even registered with the Moroccan Embassy here yet -- and had no trouble at all with the Moroccan authorities. We had read something on a State Department website indicating a Moroccan-American child might have a hassle if he didn't have a Moroccan passport since the Moroccan citizenship is acknowledged first (or exclusively?) in Morocco, but in this case, everything went smoothly. Just wanted to throw that anecdote out there for the new and expected Moroccan-American babies who haven't yet been to visit the other side of the family.

[rclouse 0]

rclouse,

Have you tried to get your son a Moroccan passport? I have heard that if your child does not have an Arabic name it isn't possible. Maybe there is some way around that with middle names, but I'm not sure...

FWIW, a Moroccan conditional PR friend of ours just returned from Morocco after taking his one-year-old son Adam for a visit, just the two of them. (I think Adam is one of the "approved" Arabic names.) The baby traveled on a U.S. passport. They didn't try to get him a Moroccan one yet -- father and son aren't yet even registered with the Moroccan Embassy here yet -- and had no trouble at all with the Moroccan authorities. We had read something on a State Department website indicating a Moroccan-American child might have a hassle if he didn't have a Moroccan passport since the Moroccan citizenship is acknowledged first (or exclusively?) in Morocco, but in this case, everything went smoothly. Just wanted to throw that anecdote out there for the new and expected Moroccan-American babies who haven't yet been to visit the other side of the family.

We also had no troubles coming or going with Michael. He travelled on his US passport and my wife with her Moroccan passport & 10 year GC took him through Morocco's immigration booth both times.

[Carolyn 1]

From what I understand, Jewish Moroccans (there aren't very many left) can name their babies what they want. Muslims, however, are supposed to use Arabic names, regardless of their origin (Arabic or Berber or ?). For many years, Berber names were not allowed, but that may be relaxing somewhat.

[symbiosis 0]

young as possible, doubt the child will really feel like a party to celebrate his pain

Why does it only matter if it's a boy? Female circumcision is also popular in some parts of Africa and it has just as little to recommend it. It's a barbaric, unnecessary procedure for either gender.

[rclouse 0]

plenty of arabs are called mikha'il.

is there any credibility to the passport thing? i've never seen that actually stated in writing on official websites. what if yr berber, or a jewish moroccan?

I looked carefully at the consulate's website and there was nothing about any "approved names" list. We only found out that "Michael" wasn't acceptable after we sent in the paperwork to register him.

Mikha'il? That'll work for him in Slavic countries.

[sandinista! 1,816]

comparison of female genital mutilation with male circumcision is inherently misogynistic and sexist. not to mention completely ignorant of basic human anatomy and physiology.

[Carolyn 1]

Circumcising a male may not be "medically necessary," but I am willing to bet that very few Muslim (or Jewish) families would even question getting it done.

Female circumcision is an entirely different issue to me (I have strong opinions on the issue, but I'm not really interested in going there right now).

[kerewin21 2]

young as possible, doubt the child will really feel like a party to celebrate his pain

Why does it only matter if it's a boy? Female circumcision is also popular in some parts of Africa and it has just as little to recommend it. It's a barbaric, unnecessary procedure for either gender.

I won't even get started on female genital cutting/circumcision.

It's true that in the US there is not so much to recommend male circumcision; however in some countries with high prevalence of HIV there is a marked decrease in infection rate among circumcised men and their partners. Just a thought.

Edited July 17, 2008 by kerewin21

[♥JP♥ 5]

comparison of female genital mutilation with male circumcision is inherently misogynistic and sexist. not to mention completely ignorant of basic human anatomy and physiology.

Not to mention they are done for totally different reasons!!!

[Nasturtium 500]

plenty of arabs are called mikha'il.

is there any credibility to the passport thing? i've never seen that actually stated in writing on official websites. what if yr berber, or a jewish moroccan?

Oooo! Thanks for the new name for me to try!!

[Carolyn 1]

Out of curiosity, I asked Simo if he had heard of Arabs being named Mikha'il, he said yes--he knew some Lebanese and Palestinians with that name, but no Moroccans.

[symbiosis 0]

young as possible, doubt the child will really feel like a party to celebrate his pain

Why does it only matter if it's a boy? Female circumcision is also popular in some parts of Africa and it has just as little to recommend it. It's a barbaric, unnecessary procedure for either gender.

I won't even get started on female genital cutting/circumcision.

It's true that in the US there is not so much to recommend male circumcision; however in some countries with high prevalence of HIV there is a marked decrease in infection rate among circumcised men and their partners. Just a thought.

Randomized controlled trials. After the failure of observational studies to show a clear protective effect, circumcision advocates obtained funding from the United States National Institutes of Health to conduct randomized controlled trials (RCTs) in Africa. Three RCTs to study the value of male circumcision in reducing HIV infection have been conducted in Africa since the publication of the Cochrane Review. The studies were intended to find out if circumcision is an effective intervention to prevent female-to-male HIV infection. A RCT under the supervision of Bertran Auvert, French circumcision proponent, was carried out in Orange Farm, South Africa;11 a RCT was carried out in Kenya under the supervision of North American circumcision proponent Robert C. Bailey and Stephen Moses;12 and a RCT was carried out in Uganda under the supervision of North American circumcision proponent Ronald H. Gray.13 Dr. Auvert has been a circumcision proponent since at least 2003.14 Professor Moses has been an advocate of circumcision at least since 1994.9 Professor Bailey has been a circumcision advocate since at least 1998.15

All three studies found that non-circumcised males contract HIV infection more quickly than circumcised males.11-13 This may be because the circumcised males required a period of abstinence after their circumcision. All three studies were terminated early, before the incidence of infection in circumcised males caught up with the incidence of infection in the non-circumcised males. If the studies had continued for their scheduled time, it is probable that there would have been little difference between the circumcised group and the non-circumcised group. Mills & Siegfried point out that early termination of such studies cause the benefits to be exaggerated.16 Dowsett & Couch (2007), even after publication of the RCTs, found insufficient evidence exists to support a program of circumcision to prevent HIV infection.

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org...VStatement.html

[Carolyn 1]

The MENA forum is probably the wrong place to be advocating not circumcizing males.

For most here, it is a religious and cultural tradition, not a health concern.

Edited July 18, 2008 by Carolyn