McCain addresses La Raza, reaffirms support for comprehensive immigration reform (a.k.a. amnesty)

[Heracles 417]

Blather, blather blather on, and on, and on, and on...

Ah like the number of Americans who are victims of crime at the hands of illegal immigrants?

Or the $23 Billion illegal immigrants siphon off to Mexico at a time when the US economy is suffering.

Or the 11,000,000 jobs currently taken by illegal immigrants which could be made available for the 5.5% of Americans who are unemployed or the 1,000,000 who lost their house..

[Peikko 1,575]

Yes, the outrage, the outrage, lots of outrage.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

[Heracles 417]

Well to correct you slightly - there's no exact number of how many illegal immigrants are in the USA, given that census data for these people doesn't exist. Hence estimates vary from 11 million to 20 million. I guess it depends how optimistic or pessimistic you are about the whole thing - but its a fair assumption that the number probably falls somewhere between the two.

The question I'd pose is what percentage of crime illegal immigrants contribute to the crime rates of specific States; and secondly as a proportion of the national crime rate.

I don't doubt that there are illegal immigrants who murder and commit other crimes, and I certainly do think such crimes are avoidable. But I don't think we should be in the habit of exaggerating this or taking it outside the context of the overall crime rate in this country. There is too much violent crime in this country, and illegal immigration is far from the sole reason for this - even if it does provide a convenient scapegoat.

It has nothing to do with the overall crime rate. The fact is that the government has failed to protect the American people. That is their job and not to spend 12 months campaigning or hold congressional inquiries about the most frivolous topics while neglecting the impact of illegal immigration on the United States of America. There is a reason why most other OECD nations have such a strict immigration policy let alone illegal immigration policy.

Here is some of the data you asked for:

[SMOKE 1,426]

damn it A.J.! now i can't get that dead prez song out of my head.

Edited July 16, 2008 by SMOKE

[Heracles 417]

[Heracles 417]

....

This one is for you Pedroh

[one...two...tree 2,762]

who is a gringo hater?

or just because you support an amnesty you hate your own people? kinda hard to follow logic

No. We just do not like any one group of people who thinks they can enter a sovereign nation as they see fit. Come in through the front door, like every other immigrant, and nobody will have any problem.

LOL...since when in history has it ever worked that way?

Try the process 50% of the people / spouses in this forum are going through. Then you may want to google the immigration policy of the other OECD nations.

It is stupid to expect legal immigrants to go through all of these hoops and medical checks while Mexicans, at will, can simply walk across the border. With no background, medical, criminal check etc.

No harm, no foul.

you've got to be kidding me.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Well to correct you slightly - there's no exact number of how many illegal immigrants are in the USA, given that census data for these people doesn't exist. Hence estimates vary from 11 million to 20 million. I guess it depends how optimistic or pessimistic you are about the whole thing - but its a fair assumption that the number probably falls somewhere between the two.

The question I'd pose is what percentage of crime illegal immigrants contribute to the crime rates of specific States; and secondly as a proportion of the national crime rate.

I don't doubt that there are illegal immigrants who murder and commit other crimes, and I certainly do think such crimes are avoidable. But I don't think we should be in the habit of exaggerating this or taking it outside the context of the overall crime rate in this country. There is too much violent crime in this country, and illegal immigration is far from the sole reason for this - even if it does provide a convenient scapegoat.

It has nothing to do with the overall crime rate. The fact is that the government has failed to protect the American people. That is their job and not to spend 12 months campaigning or hold congressional inquiries about the most frivolous topics while neglecting the impact of illegal immigration on the United States of America. There is a reason why most other OECD nations have such a strict immigration policy let alone illegal immigration policy.

Here is some of the data you asked for:

It has EVERYTHING to do with the crime rate when you post about the crimes committed by illegals. In which case - that data in that banner image has nothing to do with my argument.

However... I am curious however how they arrive at that specific number of illegal immigrants, given the lack of official data (illegals aren't exactly likely to raise their hands and say "present" are they...?). In fact if you look at the range of estimates - this lot always seems to range it toward the higher end - i.e. If there's 11-20 million illegals - there MUST BE 20,000,0000 illegals.

Can you say "alarmist"?

[pedroh 21]

illegals enrolled in public schools k-12? I think that number is kinda high.. most illegals raise a family already in the US, they don't bring it here, in which if that's the case, the figure is wrong, because those kids are already USC's.. not 'illegals'

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

illegals enrolled in public schools k-12? I think that number is kinda high.. most illegals raise a family already in the US, they don't bring it here, in which if that's the case, the figure is wrong, because those kids are already USC's.. not 'illegals'

given teachers can't ask, how would anyone know?

[pedroh 21]

illegals enrolled in public schools k-12? I think that number is kinda high.. most illegals raise a family already in the US, they don't bring it here, in which if that's the case, the figure is wrong, because those kids are already USC's.. not 'illegals'

given teachers can't ask, how would anyone know?

then either way that number is hard to believe

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

illegals enrolled in public schools k-12? I think that number is kinda high.. most illegals raise a family already in the US, they don't bring it here, in which if that's the case, the figure is wrong, because those kids are already USC's.. not 'illegals'

given teachers can't ask, how would anyone know?

then either way that number is hard to believe

what if it is a low estimate?

[Peikko 1,575]

What if? More outrage sir?

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

don't you have some protest to go attend?