My Husband's Father was Deported Yesterday

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I think MENA members should be able to control their forum. Who posts there, when, and what.

MENA is distinctive enough a forum to warrant it. No other forum on this site is quite like this one.

[Jenn! 918]

[

Yes, best to let things go and move on. The OP can go back and read the previously posted information when she is ready for it. Can we get back on track now, everyone?

What track would that be, Jenn? This is an immigration website. Diaddie and I were offering immigration information. Are there times when that is not allowed? Are we to take the temperature of a thread first before we post? Mysteriously gauge whether or not the OP is 'ready'? Somehow I thought the links I offered might be of some comfort. Apparently not.

Unbelieveable.

Yes, apparently not. Your advice is useful, but at this point the thread has deteriorated into bickering, unfortunately, and that is not going to help the OP or anyone else.

The "track" would be discussing the situation - whether through words of support or more concrete advice. My request was directed to everyone.

We were told concrete advice was not wanted. You state yourself the OP may find it useful 'later'.

What if it had never been posted at all because non-MENA members decide it's not worth it to come to MENA?

Or is that the way you all want it?

Well, what *I* want is that you and DM continue to offer your advice because it *is* valuable, regardless of whether others see it that way.

People should offer whatever support they feel comfortable with and be less concerned with what type of advice other people are offering.

[rebeccajo 14]

I think MENA members should be able to control their forum. Who posts there, when, and what.

MENA is distinctive enough a forum to warrant it. No other forum on this site is quite like this one.

Kinda like this?

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...p;#entry2011725

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I think MENA members should be able to control their forum. Who posts there, when, and what.

MENA is distinctive enough a forum to warrant it. No other forum on this site is quite like this one.

Kinda like this?

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...p;#entry2011725

You catch on quick

[diadromous mermaid 36]

My FIL was NEVER given a document to sign. NOT THE ENTIRE TIME WAS HE GIVEN A DOCUMENT TO SIGN.

Was he asked if he wanted to sign something?

From what my father in law told us, one of the CBP officers scratched through his passport but since they took it and put it in the sealed envelope to give to the German officials, we never saw what was written.

Where is the passport now? What is written in it?

P.S. I feel (a perception of course) like I am pulling teeth to get the information

There seems to clearly be 2 very separate issues that you seem not to be able to keep straight diad

One is why was her FIL refused. On this issue the OP states she has retained counsel. OP seems distressed and confused about why he was refused but this doesn't seem to be the source of outrage. You seem to repeatedly misattribute this as the source of outrage (as if it is the sole issue) and minimize the outrage by offering facts about reasons for refusal, for which issue OP has retained what sounds like very capable counsel. If you feel more capable than counsel to address this issue, then message OP privately with your business card.

Although the first issue is upsetting to the OP it seems quite clear (unless, of course we question your reading comprehension skills as you have rather arrogantly chosen to question other's) that the outrage part comes from something altogether different.

1) Being left without information on why a family member is being detained for an extended period of time.

2) Being left in an airport baggage claim with limited facilities with a small child during this episode.

3) Being yelled at in a threatening way when approaching customs to ask for information.

4)Being told many things by US officials (such as he won't be housed with the general population) that turned out not to be true.

5)Being left in the dark about why such action was necessary

6) et al. I'm sure I don't have them all covered.

I'm sure that counsel will address these issues also, most especially if refusal was not on solid ground. It is not at all surprising that at this point issue 1 and 2 weave together for the OP. If you are as clear-headed as you claim to be, you should be able to sort it out however.

The reason people have responded to your posts as "cold" is that issue one is clearly handled and issue two is the source of outrage. You suggest that the outrage at being treated in this way is misplaced and that the indignities they may have suffered (which she has described for you in detail) are not worthy of outrage, should the CBP action be technically valid. Whether you intend that message or not, that is what you communicate by ignoring the true source of her rage.

One sign you should look for of people with poor communication skills, when they receive feedback from multiple sources that their communication is being received poorly at the other end, rather than re-evaluate their communication, they attack others and forge ahead with why they are right.

It seems rather clear that for CBP to have notified the family that was waiting immediately, advised them of where their relatives were and that they were safe, allowed them to decide if all should wait or, if they expected a long detention, that the child could be taken home, treated the family (who you may recall is a USC and her perm res spouse and child) with respect and understanding for their difficult situation, offered them a contact person to check for updates, offered them facilities for a reasonably comfortable stay during their prolonged wait and advised them clearly of the reasons for the action being taken, it would not have violated any US law or immigration protocol. Unless you can sight for us the law requires border agents to act in abusive ways towards USC family of detainees, your attempts to demonstrate how smart you are on issue one will probably not be well taken.

Unless I am misreading the OP (and she may certainly correct me if I am) she seems understandably angry and confused about why her FIL was refused, but outraged about the way that her entire family, including USC were treated. Whether or not you intend it your posts come across as suggesting said treatment of USC and family is excusable, if there was good reason for refusal. It simply is not.

You took a very bad step step when you suggested that the outrage over issue 2 should be tempered depending on the outcome of issue 1. When posters pointed out that it was issue 2 that was the source of outrage, you continued to force feed info on issue 1, which made you seem insensitive to issue 2 and gave the appearance that you were more interested in showing how much you know than with helping the OP.

I'm sure everyone here is aware that detentions, interrogations and even refusals are possible. You may believe that during that process it doesn't really matter how USC, husband and child are treated. It is clear that what would have tempered the outrage would have been respectful, humane treatment of all involved. Unless you can cite the section of Immigration law that requires USC, husband and child to be treated like sh*t, I think your work here is done. I think we can all agree that you are a very, very smart person. Thanks for sharing.

OP has clearly demonstrated that she is in an emotionally vulnerable state and you have made it worse. By any definition I know, that does not qualify as help.

PS that perception of pulling teeth to get info might be because no one here retained you as counsel in the matter and so no one understands why you feel you are owed information.

The OP appeared outraged because her FIL was "deported" (she chose the word because she knew it would be better understood, or so she claimed). My reference to outrage was to the peanuts gallery that like lemmings were ready to jump off the cliff without any facts.

Why post the story if you are not going to respond to queries? Why ask questions? Why state that the FIL had no obvious reason to be removed, when clearly she did not understand the realm of reasons for ER? If she has counsel, and one that has all the answers, then there would be no need to post questions at all.

If the whole purpose of her post was to fan the flames and drum up a host of petition signatures, then I guess she achieved her ends and my time spent was to no avail. I wish her well. Let's hope she has good counsel.

As for the group that has demonstrated their support for Allousa by trashing mine, I have to say I haven't received this kind of a reception in all the years I've spent on VJ. You've proved to me that it's a waste of the time I put forth, and you deserve all that you get for your welcoming hospitality.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I have to say I haven't received this kind of a reception in all the years I've spent on VJ.

Feel like the old lady in this video?

[Carolyn 1]

Diaddie,

You have often been the voice of inside knowledge and reason here on VJ--for years I have had respect and trust for what you have to say about this crazy immigration system we are all choosing to go through in order to be able to be with our loved ones.

The OP and many others on this forum are understandably upset with what has happened. I think we all imagine our father-in-laws (and ourselves) being disrespected in such a way. Sometimes an emotional response is just where people are at.

Please continue to post your information, even if it sometimes isn't received well. Perhaps the OP will refer to it in the coming days/weeks, or maybe not--perhaps she will get all the answers she needs from her lawyer. If not, maybe someone else will benefit from this information.

[KimandRuss 0]

ahem....

Follow the links Rebecca posted. The only way these sad excuses for human beings will be stopped is if those effected stand united.

^

Even if there was a logical reason to deny this gentleman entry into the Country or allow him to withdraw his request to enter ...we are a dignified nation. Yes, we are trying to protect our borders and I respect that but there is no need for abuse of power.

There is no reason or excuse that an elderly man should be treated that way. He was detained far too long, his family knew nothing of what was going on and had blood in his mouth... that's all I need to know. I'm quite sure he would have admitted had he bit his tongue.

There is no reason a young woman should be detained in a jail cell and denied her medication and end up in the hospital because of it.

Russell was denied entry. He was brought into a private room where he had to wait a while. He was offered water, he answered questions and signed a form. He was offerered tissues, advice.... and compassion before he was sent on his way.

What has happened is barbaric ...it's obviously an issue with that POE... it's obviously an issue with people on power trips... and that is the problem here and that is the reason we show some compassion....even when offering great insight. I don't think the bickering is doing the OP, or anybody else, any good. She's been in this process a long, long time so i'm sure she understands the legalities of how it all works. I think everyone is on the same page in that abuse of any kind should not be tolerated. It's really that simple... there is right..and there is wrong.

[Jenn! 918]

Diaddie,

You have often been the voice of inside knowledge and reason here on VJ--for years I have had respect and trust for what you have to say about this crazy immigration system we are all choosing to go through in order to be able to be with our loved ones.

The OP and many others on this forum are understandably upset with what has happened. I think we all imagine our father-in-laws (and ourselves) being disrespected in such a way. Sometimes an emotional response is just where people are at.

Please continue to post your information, even if it sometimes isn't received well. Perhaps the OP will refer to it in the coming days/weeks, or maybe not--perhaps she will get all the answers she needs from her lawyer. If not, maybe someone else will benefit from this information.

[nunyab 0]

ahem....

Follow the links Rebecca posted. The only way these sad excuses for human beings will be stopped is if those effected stand united.

^

Even if there was a logical reason to deny this gentleman entry into the Country or allow him to withdraw his request to enter ...we are a dignified nation. Yes, we are trying to protect our borders and I respect that but there is no need for abuse of power.

There is no reason or excuse that an elderly man should be treated that way. He was detained far too long, his family knew nothing of what was going on and had blood in his mouth... that's all I need to know. I'm quite sure he would have admitted had he bit his tongue.

There is no reason a young woman should be detained in a jail cell and denied her medication and end up in the hospital because of it.

Russell was denied entry. He was brought into a private room where he had to wait a while. He was offered water, he answered questions and signed a form. He was offerered tissues, advice.... and compassion before he was sent on his way.

What has happened is barbaric ...it's obviously an issue with that POE... it's obviously an issue with people on power trips... and that is the problem here and that is the reason we show some compassion....even when offering great insight. I don't think the bickering is doing the OP, or anybody else, any good. She's been in this process a long, long time so i'm sure she understands the legalities of how it all works. I think everyone is on the same page in that abuse of any kind should not be tolerated. It's really that simple... there is right..and there is wrong.

Similar situation with a dear friend of mine waited a year and a half for her husband from Pakistan to get here. When he finally made it to Seatac airport she was there to meet him but couldn't find him. She waited for two hours in the airport noone would tell her anything.

She started making phone calls on her cell and was greeted with security officals and told her to come with them. She kept asking do you know where my husband is.. she tried so hard not to cry and plead with them... they ignored her and continued walking. She finally was brought into a room where sat her husband. 1 door a table and two chairs... she rushed to him crying. They talked but her husband talked in hushed tones.... 30 min. later they let them both out of the room and said "we believe you two" and sent them on their way.

This is the story I got from my friend just a couple of weeks ago when her husband made it here. To this day he doesn't speak about what happened from the time he got off the plane to the time she saw him. He and she are just thankful to have made it.

It makes me wonder how many are "thankful for making it" that have stories that should be heard???

Anyway, just wondering.....

[S and S 12]

ahem....

Follow the links Rebecca posted. The only way these sad excuses for human beings will be stopped is if those effected stand united.

^

Even if there was a logical reason to deny this gentleman entry into the Country or allow him to withdraw his request to enter ...we are a dignified nation. Yes, we are trying to protect our borders and I respect that but there is no need for abuse of power.

There is no reason or excuse that an elderly man should be treated that way. He was detained far too long, his family knew nothing of what was going on and had blood in his mouth... that's all I need to know. I'm quite sure he would have admitted had he bit his tongue.

There is no reason a young woman should be detained in a jail cell and denied her medication and end up in the hospital because of it.

Russell was denied entry. He was brought into a private room where he had to wait a while. He was offered water, he answered questions and signed a form. He was offerered tissues, advice.... and compassion before he was sent on his way.

What has happened is barbaric ...it's obviously an issue with that POE... it's obviously an issue with people on power trips... and that is the problem here and that is the reason we show some compassion....even when offering great insight. I don't think the bickering is doing the OP, or anybody else, any good. She's been in this process a long, long time so i'm sure she understands the legalities of how it all works. I think everyone is on the same page in that abuse of any kind should not be tolerated. It's really that simple... there is right..and there is wrong.

Similar situation with a dear friend of mine waited a year and a half for her husband from Pakistan to get here. When he finally made it to Seatac airport she was there to meet him but couldn't find him. She waited for two hours in the airport noone would tell her anything.

She started making phone calls on her cell and was greeted with security officals and told her to come with them. She kept asking do you know where my husband is.. she tried so hard not to cry and plead with them... they ignored her and continued walking. She finally was brought into a room where sat her husband. 1 door a table and two chairs... she rushed to him crying. They talked but her husband talked in hushed tones.... 30 min. later they let them both out of the room and said "we believe you two" and sent them on their way.

This is the story I got from my friend just a couple of weeks ago when her husband made it here. To this day he doesn't speak about what happened from the time he got off the plane to the time she saw him. He and she are just thankful to have made it.

It makes me wonder how many are "thankful for making it" that have stories that should be heard???

Anyway, just wondering.....

Oh, I pray none of our husbands have to go through that or their families. Thanks for sharing that story.

[Steven Shirley 0]

Similar situation with a dear friend of mine waited a year and a half for her husband from Pakistan to get here. When he finally made it to Seatac airport she was there to meet him but couldn't find him. She waited for two hours in the airport noone would tell her anything.

She started making phone calls on her cell and was greeted with security officals and told her to come with them. She kept asking do you know where my husband is.. she tried so hard not to cry and plead with them... they ignored her and continued walking. She finally was brought into a room where sat her husband. 1 door a table and two chairs... she rushed to him crying. They talked but her husband talked in hushed tones.... 30 min. later they let them both out of the room and said "we believe you two" and sent them on their way.

This is the story I got from my friend just a couple of weeks ago when her husband made it here. To this day he doesn't speak about what happened from the time he got off the plane to the time she saw him. He and she are just thankful to have made it.

It makes me wonder how many are "thankful for making it" that have stories that should be heard???

Anyway, just wondering.....

Thank you for bringing this up...I think there are many cases of immigration official abusing their power and even those of us not assumed as terrorist/or threat to national security at this moment are still at risk as long as such practices go unchallenged and remain hidden from the public. It was not so long ago, other races were the assumed enemies of the country. Japanese, already in the US working legally and productively were ripped from their house and put in what can be justifiably called concentration camps right here in US soil...didn't know that...check out the history of a tiny place in Arizona called Poston! At other times anyone having a differing political view even slightly similar to socialism/communism was harassed and often jailed...look up McCarthy! Of course today it is the middle eastern people who bare the brunt of our fear incited inhumanity which has given our government way to much authority and legal secrecy to do whatever they wish as long as they wave the flag of national security and 911. We should not forget this is a government "by the people and for the people" but in truth the only way to keep it working that way is for the people to DEMAND accountability of their government wither through the courts or public media or both. When will Mexicans, or Russians or Cubans or Asians be the next on the unofficial "hit list" in the name of national security....not a single one of us who has our hearts intertwined with loved ones born outside an imaginary line called a border is safe until such practices are stopped by public scrutiny and outcry.

I suggest we do whatever we can to support whatever action any such victims choose to take as a way of protecting us all! there is safety and strength in numbers!

Steven

[Staashi 371]

I'm sorry to have seen the way things broke down in this topic, but I will say that although the situation at hand can be somewhat incomprehensible, when someone such as the Mermaid shows up you know you will get a rational answer(s) or ideas as to what might be going on. Sometimes, when you post a topic to a forum such as this all you want are cyberhugs from your friends, but in many ways, one needs people such as the Mermaid to give a logical perspective to the situation.

The difficult part about immigration is that it is a legal process for an emotional issue - love, family, etc. Sadly, the things that we have seen happen to the US in the last 7 years have made all of us susceptible to some serious scrutiny as to our relationships with lovers, family and friends when immigration is involved. When it comes to what happens with DHS, be it CBP or USCIS, you have to step away from the emotional aspect of it and look at it from the business side. It reminds me of that movie, You've Got Mail, where Tom Hanks said, "It's not personal, it's business." Which is what brings us to this situation...it wasn't personal, it was business. Something with the FIL's information made CBP decide to deny him entry, a business decision that became personal for Allousa and her family. Now, I'm not denying that in Charlotte there are probably some crackerasscrackers as CBP officers, with a thing for denying MENAs, but every action by a DHS officer has to be justifiable...so somewhere, someone has a verifiable answer as to what made them do this.

In the end, this very tragic situation is truly incomprehensible for all involved. For everyone's edification, I look forward to the future when Allousa - if she so desires, can shed more light on the situation, and divulge to us what the attorneys believe happened here.

Edited July 14, 2008 by Staashi

[S and S 12]

The thing I keep thinking is not that security doesn't have reasons to suspect someone or question them. It is within their rights if they find something suspicious or not within guidelines. What I keep wondering is if there is ever a reason for our homeland security personnel to treat someone the way the FIL was treated. Is it really okay to yell at relatives if they simply ask a question. Is it really okay to put someone in jail without charges. I keep thinking most people treat their animals with more respect than CBP did with that man. I'm not concerned with why the FIL was detained. Obviously they had a reason of some sort. My question is regardless of why they are detained, do they have the right to treat people in such deplorable ways. Is this what our security personnel have been reduced to? That they can't even be professional? I think this is what is bothering people the most.

Most people have no problem answering questions or even a delay if it is really necessary. Our only concern is that we aren't treated guilty before we even know what we are being accused of. Arresting people or detaining them should require a reasonable explanation. The person should not be kept in uncomfortable conditions, they should be provided food and water as necessary and be allowed to rest if held for long periods. It really is sad that death row inmates can be afforded more comfort than someone that may have caused some ever so slight suspicion.

[AlHayatZween 2]

Wow... this thread really took off in an unexpected direction.

Well-said, S and S.

i think the emotions are running high because this sort of thing could happen to any one of us or to any one of our families. and it is this constant lack of control and accountability that makes this whole immigration process nerve-wracking. as for being deported or ER or whatever you want to call it, i cannot even begin to imagine how devastating that would be... whether it be because of a technicality or much worse, an unjust/uninformed mistake on DHS's part... and then to be left without immediate information or recourse as to why? Devastating.

Anyway, you have a lot of friends here, Allousa, and it sounds like you are doing all the right things in terms of acquiring legal cousel, etc... Inchallah, you will have some insight as to what the heck happened and soon..... (F)