My Husband's Father was Deported Yesterday

[sara535 15]

I have to agree. Diaddie I am sure your points have some legal validity and I am sure that Allousa and her family and lawyers will work hard to get to the bottom of it all. However in the meantime her family is feeling extremely sad and traumatized and they need some care and support. Allousa didnt post her story on here for legal advice, sounds like she is getting that elsewhere. She posted because we have been with her for a long time in the trials of her visa journey and has often come here for support. So lets give her that.

Edited July 13, 2008 by sara535

[diadromous mermaid 36]

Keep in mind that his father is 70 and mother 65 and only his father speaks a very small amount of English.

Is it at all possible that your FIL misunderstood a line of questioning in secondary inspection, that precipitated the CBP agents to believe that he was misusing his visa?

Techically, this is expedited removal, rather than deportation, btw.

I don't see how anything her FIL could have said made him deserve that kind of treatment. There is no excuse for that kind of behavior. It is something I would expect of some other countries, but I would like to think we are better than that.

I'm not condoning any harsh punishment, but expedited removal is a privilege afforded border agents to remove aliens that they have reason to believe are either misusing a document, or have counterfeit documents, or are otherwise inadmissible. Placing an alien in detention is customary, albeit, I would not wish to spend the night in jail, I can't imagine being in jail for any reason would be pleasant. The issue here is to find out why the CBP thought her FIL was not entitled to enter. Once that information is ascertained, it may or may not shed light onto whether his treatment was out of ordinary.

I cannot even begin to fathom your line of thinking here. IF the FIL said something 'incriminating' why could the patrol officers not tell the son why his father was being deported? Of even more concern is since it was probably obvious that the FIL didn't speak good english, why not allow some translator to make sure he understood. There is NO reason for the treatment this poor man received. I don't know Allousa personally but I'm ready to spit nails over this whole thing. Utterly embarassed to be a citizen of a country that allows this nonsense. How in God's name do these people sleep with themselves at night??? I hope you are able to get some resolution Allousa. I know no amount of anything is going to make this go away, but at least knowing what happened that started the incident will give you some closure. Knowing that your FIL spent a night in jail for nothing....grrrrrrr.

I cannot "fathom" your willingness to jump to extremes without further information! Why would the CBP be obliged to inform the son of their actions? Is that a requirement? I believe that a translator was engaged, if I read the information offered properly. Whether the FIL understood the consequences of his choices (if any) or his answers doesn't simply rest on whether a translation was accurate. It could simply have been that he was unaware of what could render him inadmissible. Again, we don't know, but to jump to condemning the USA without specific facts is equally as irresponsible, in my opinion.

I believe you are offering quite of bit of speculation yourself without knowing exactly what happened either. If its ok for you to do that, then its ok for other members to express their outrage towards the situation as well. I'm not exactly sure why you are going to such great lenghs to defend the officers actions at this point. The fact is none of us really know what happened. But we are offering our support to Allousa and her family, which at this point is all we can do.

I'm offering no speculation at all! I am providing reasons that CBP chooses to refuse entry to non-immigrants, some that can result in an expedited removal. That's all! I have said, repeatedly, that we don't know the specifics in this case. So, without those facts, how can anyone become outraged? There could be facts that will unfold that provide a reasonable explanation for CBP's actions. Furthermore, I am not going to great lengths to defend the officers at all. Your reading comprehension is lacking if that is what you are deriving from this line of discourse. What I am doing is providing information as to the particular events that can and do precipitate an expedited removal. Whether the FIL falls into such a category is yet to be seen.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

There's no reason to be that harsh w/ a 70 y/o man unless he's wielding a gun in your face or has a bomb strapped to him. That's just wrong!

There are many Americans that would disagree with the above statement, but that has little to do with this discussion.

Wow, you're hardcore, Diaddie.... and brutal.

Hardcore and brutal? What is hardcore and brutal about providing information that outlines DHS's legal authority? I think you are improperly judging me, rather than looking at the situation objectively....which is ironic, because it is exactly that, an alleged and improper judgement that is outraging you. Do you not see that?

Edited July 13, 2008 by diadromous mermaid

[diadromous mermaid 36]

I have to agree. Diaddie I am sure your points have some legal validity and I am sure that Allousa and her family and lawyers will work hard to get to the bottom of it all. However in the meantime her family is feeling extremely sad and traumatized and they need some care and support. Allousa didnt post her story on here for legal advice, sounds like she is getting that elsewhere. She posted because we have been with her for a long time in the trials of her visa journey and has often come here for support. So lets give her that.

I am sure part of her outcry was for support, but to be specific, I believe her post was to say this...

but you need to know that this can happen and does. I pray that none of you have to go through the hell that we just did. What turns my stomach even more, not just from what they did to my FIL, but the fact that we endured such hell and separation for 7 years dealing with my husband's Immigration case only to have something like this happen.

[RAKASA 0]

Wow, you're hardcore, Diaddie.... and brutal.

Hardcore and brutal? What is hardcore and brutal about providing information that outlines DHS's legal authority? I think you are improperly judging me, rather than looking at the situation objectively....which is ironic, because it is exactly that, an alleged and improper judgement that is outraging you. Do you not see that?

Clearly I do not. I still think you're pretty hardcore and brutal.... so sue me. Have you no compassion? I guess it's just all business w/ you..... Good thing there are plenty of others who are compassionate, which in my feeble assumption, is what Allousa is needing now. As Sara said, she seems to be getting the legal advice she needs elsewhere.

Edited July 13, 2008 by ME~n~HIM

[diadromous mermaid 36]

Wow, you're hardcore, Diaddie.... and brutal.

Hardcore and brutal? What is hardcore and brutal about providing information that outlines DHS's legal authority? I think you are improperly judging me, rather than looking at the situation objectively....which is ironic, because it is exactly that, an alleged and improper judgement that is outraging you. Do you not see that?

Clearly I do not. I still think you're pretty hardcore and brutal.... so sue me. Have you no compassion? I guess it's just all business w/ you..... Good thing there are plenty of others who are compassionate, which in my feeble assumption, is what Allousa is needing now. As Sara said, she seems to be getting the legal advice she needs elsewhere.

Oh I see...so you are comparing my factual offering to the OP as heinous and brutal, I suppose, and just like the inappropriate treatment of her FIL? Now who is being brutal? The fact is that my post to direct Allousa to the regulations with respect to CBP and DHS's authority is not legal advice, it is designed to provide her with knowledge as to what events can precipitate an ER. By the way, Me~n~Him, how do you conclude that I have no compassion? One thing is certain, I do not judge people, I am not prejudiced and that, my dear, I am afraid I can't say about you!

[RAKASA 0]

[rebeccajo 14]

The language and terminology that Diaddie is using may be considered 'hardcore' but let me offer this...

If allousa and her family persue complaints and/or legal action against CBP or others for this incident, they will see this language and plenty more like it.

So while support is nice, it's necessary in situations like this to research and know the facts especially when an adversarial position will likely arise. Just because you go to court doesn't mean you will win - you have to know how to play to win.

So don't shoot the messenger. This information is invaluable to allousa.

[brnidokiegurl 0]

Be a friend or let it end...

[diadromous mermaid 36]

Be a friend or let it end...

I see I am not being appreciated. Brnidokiegurl, I hope you can live up to your member message.

[S and S 12]

Wow, you're hardcore, Diaddie.... and brutal.

Hardcore and brutal? What is hardcore and brutal about providing information that outlines DHS's legal authority? I think you are improperly judging me, rather than looking at the situation objectively....which is ironic, because it is exactly that, an alleged and improper judgement that is outraging you. Do you not see that?

Clearly I do not. I still think you're pretty hardcore and brutal.... so sue me. Have you no compassion? I guess it's just all business w/ you..... Good thing there are plenty of others who are compassionate, which in my feeble assumption, is what Allousa is needing now. As Sara said, she seems to be getting the legal advice she needs elsewhere.

Oh I see...so you are comparing my factual offering to the OP as heinous and brutal, I suppose, and just like the inappropriate treatment of her FIL? Now who is being brutal? The fact is that my post to direct Allousa to the regulations with respect to CBP and DHS's authority is not legal advice, it is designed to provide her with knowledge as to what events can precipitate an ER. By the way, Me~n~Him, how do you conclude that I have no compassion? One thing is certain, I do not judge people, I am not prejudiced and that, my dear, I am afraid I can't say about you!

While I agree it is good to know the regulations and what priveledges these officers have and anyone coming to the United States for a visa, I believe many of the priveledges for the officers were broadened after September 11th. Of course we wanted to see more secure boarders and airport security. These officers have the tough job of weading through everyone at the point of entry to determine if anyone is trying to enter illegally. Now, there are other countries which I will not name that I expect them to be tough a treat anyone they suspect with disrespect and maltreatment. What I find sad is that we have reduced ourselves to that level. That even on the slightest evidence (and I read all your examples) that this calls for treating not just the FIL but the MIL, Allousa and her husband this way is absolutely ridiculous. To allow a infant to wear a filthy diper for hours on end and force the mother to beg just to go get another one? I think when you start forcing other people who are not coming into the United States to be questioned and harrassed then they do have the right to know why. The laws may very well allow these officers to do exactly what you say they can, but if that is the case then I am deeply disturbed that our country has been reduced to this level. That we are becomming nothing short of a police state and no one is even crying out to stop it before it goes too far. There is always a right way and a wrong way. I've been in positions of authority where I could have done things worse than these guys do and no one would have stopped me, but my morals and belief in basic human rights always kept me from doing such horrible things. We weren't there, we don't know all the facts, but if it was your mother or father treated this way and you could only go by what they told you, would you just sit back and feel nothing? If you heard these same accounts but about your parents, could you just tell them that is standard procedure?

[♥JP♥ 5]

Keep in mind that his father is 70 and mother 65 and only his father speaks a very small amount of English.

Is it at all possible that your FIL misunderstood a line of questioning in secondary inspection, that precipitated the CBP agents to believe that he was misusing his visa?

Techically, this is expedited removal, rather than deportation, btw.

I don't see how anything her FIL could have said made him deserve that kind of treatment. There is no excuse for that kind of behavior. It is something I would expect of some other countries, but I would like to think we are better than that.

I'm not condoning any harsh punishment, but expedited removal is a privilege afforded border agents to remove aliens that they have reason to believe are either misusing a document, or have counterfeit documents, or are otherwise inadmissible. Placing an alien in detention is customary, albeit, I would not wish to spend the night in jail, I can't imagine being in jail for any reason would be pleasant. The issue here is to find out why the CBP thought her FIL was not entitled to enter. Once that information is ascertained, it may or may not shed light onto whether his treatment was out of ordinary.

I cannot even begin to fathom your line of thinking here. IF the FIL said something 'incriminating' why could the patrol officers not tell the son why his father was being deported? Of even more concern is since it was probably obvious that the FIL didn't speak good english, why not allow some translator to make sure he understood. There is NO reason for the treatment this poor man received. I don't know Allousa personally but I'm ready to spit nails over this whole thing. Utterly embarassed to be a citizen of a country that allows this nonsense. How in God's name do these people sleep with themselves at night??? I hope you are able to get some resolution Allousa. I know no amount of anything is going to make this go away, but at least knowing what happened that started the incident will give you some closure. Knowing that your FIL spent a night in jail for nothing....grrrrrrr.

I cannot "fathom" your willingness to jump to extremes without further information! Why would the CBP be obliged to inform the son of their actions? Is that a requirement? I believe that a translator was engaged, if I read the information offered properly. Whether the FIL understood the consequences of his choices (if any) or his answers doesn't simply rest on whether a translation was accurate. It could simply have been that he was unaware of what could render him inadmissible. Again, we don't know, but to jump to condemning the USA without specific facts is equally as irresponsible, in my opinion.

I believe you are offering quite of bit of speculation yourself without knowing exactly what happened either. If its ok for you to do that, then its ok for other members to express their outrage towards the situation as well. I'm not exactly sure why you are going to such great lenghs to defend the officers actions at this point. The fact is none of us really know what happened. But we are offering our support to Allousa and her family, which at this point is all we can do.

I'm offering no speculation at all! I am providing reasons that CBP chooses to refuse entry to non-immigrants, some that can result in an expedited removal. That's all! I have said, repeatedly, that we don't know the specifics in this case. So, without those facts, how can anyone become outraged? There could be facts that will unfold that provide a reasonable explanation for CBP's actions. Furthermore, I am not going to great lengths to defend the officers at all. Your reading comprehension is lacking if that is what you are deriving from this line of discourse. What I am doing is providing information as to the particular events that can and do precipitate an expedited removal. Whether the FIL falls into such a category is yet to be seen.

You have offered plenty regarding what he may or may not have said, his intent to immigrate, if his documents& passport were indeed valid. Like others have said, it's very clear that Allousa and her family are getting legal support somewhere else. This situation could very well happen to anyone here and I'm pretty sure if it happened to you (God forbid) you may find yourself singing a different tune.

Maybe you believe that we shouldn't condemn the USA for treating an elderly man this way, but if we do that is OUR choice. From what we know, from Allousa and her family, he didn't pose any kind of threat and to be quie honest that is the only side I care about. She came here for support not for legal mumbo jumbo or for anyone here to point fingers at her FIL. I'm sure she is aware she will here that legal talk somewhere else, but it's different when that advice is solicited and comes from a professional.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

Wow, you're hardcore, Diaddie.... and brutal.

Hardcore and brutal? What is hardcore and brutal about providing information that outlines DHS's legal authority? I think you are improperly judging me, rather than looking at the situation objectively....which is ironic, because it is exactly that, an alleged and improper judgement that is outraging you. Do you not see that?

Clearly I do not. I still think you're pretty hardcore and brutal.... so sue me. Have you no compassion? I guess it's just all business w/ you..... Good thing there are plenty of others who are compassionate, which in my feeble assumption, is what Allousa is needing now. As Sara said, she seems to be getting the legal advice she needs elsewhere.

Oh I see...so you are comparing my factual offering to the OP as heinous and brutal, I suppose, and just like the inappropriate treatment of her FIL? Now who is being brutal? The fact is that my post to direct Allousa to the regulations with respect to CBP and DHS's authority is not legal advice, it is designed to provide her with knowledge as to what events can precipitate an ER. By the way, Me~n~Him, how do you conclude that I have no compassion? One thing is certain, I do not judge people, I am not prejudiced and that, my dear, I am afraid I can't say about you!

While I agree it is good to know the regulations and what priveledges these officers have and anyone coming to the United States for a visa, I believe many of the priveledges for the officers were broadened after September 11th. Of course we wanted to see more secure boarders and airport security. These officers have the tough job of weading through everyone at the point of entry to determine if anyone is trying to enter illegally. Now, there are other countries which I will not name that I expect them to be tough a treat anyone they suspect with disrespect and maltreatment. What I find sad is that we have reduced ourselves to that level. That even on the slightest evidence (and I read all your examples) that this calls for treating not just the FIL but the MIL, Allousa and her husband this way is absolutely ridiculous. To allow a infant to wear a filthy diper for hours on end and force the mother to beg just to go get another one? I think when you start forcing other people who are not coming into the United States to be questioned and harrassed then they do have the right to know why. The laws may very well allow these officers to do exactly what you say they can, but if that is the case then I am deeply disturbed that our country has been reduced to this level. That we are becomming nothing short of a police state and no one is even crying out to stop it before it goes too far. There is always a right way and a wrong way. I've been in positions of authority where I could have done things worse than these guys do and no one would have stopped me, but my morals and belief in basic human rights always kept me from doing such horrible things. We weren't there, we don't know all the facts, but if it was your mother or father treated this way and you could only go by what they told you, would you just sit back and feel nothing? If you heard these same accounts but about your parents, could you just tell them that is standard procedure?

I have never said that I feel nothing, nor am I just willing to sit back. I have provided Allousa information so she would be well-armed to take action if none of the circumstances for expedited removal were legitimate. I have also not suggested that this is standard procedure; what I have suggested is that if expedited removal is determined, it is not atypical for an alien to be placed on the next available carrier, or held until the alien can fly back to his or her home land. What you fail to note is that according to Allousa's recount of the day the FIL spent the night in detention because the plane was experiencing mechanical failure. Not due to CBP, but simply due to the craft not being worthy of flight. As for the diaper issue, I can't say, but I do know that at International Entry points, there are security issues that might make going in and out a little more difficult than in any other public area of an airport, and as far as I can see there were gestures made toward the US resident family to make sure they were reunited and could spend 45 minutes together so they could say their goodbyes etc. While I agree this was an unfortunate incident, to paint it completely black is indirectly doing the OP injustice.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

You have offered plenty regarding what he may or may not have said, his intent to immigrate, if his documents& passport were indeed valid. Like others have said, it's very clear that Allousa and her family are getting legal support somewhere else. This situation could very well happen to anyone here and I'm pretty sure if it happened to you (God forbid) you may find yourself singing a different tune.

Maybe you believe that we shouldn't condemn the USA for treating an elderly man this way, but if we do that is OUR choice. From what we know, from Allousa and her family, he didn't pose any kind of threat and to be quie honest that is the only side I care about. She came here for support not for legal mumbo jumbo or for anyone here to point fingers at her FIL. I'm sure she is aware she will here that legal talk somewhere else, but it's different when that advice is solicited and comes from a professional.

Once again, and emphatically, let me spell it out again....I am not offering legal advice. I am offering facts as to when expedited removal is just, legal and within reason. And for your information, since you clearly missed the first time I indicated it, expedited removal is not simply due to someone being a perceived "threat" to the US. It can be a border agent's remedy to any one of a number of inadmissibility issues. Tens of thousands of aliens are refused entry to the US each year; some by virtue of their choice, are removed expeditiously; some, by virtue of misunderstanding their options, are defaulted to expedited removal because they refuse to surrender their application for entry. We don't know if this option was offered to Allousa's FIL, but to simply assume it wasn't is just as incorrect as the treatment you conclude was inappropriate. It could well be that he was offered to depart the USA, without ER, but didn't know what answer to give. How can any of us know right now?

Jumping to the conclusion that the US agents abused their authority is improper at this juncture, just as jumping to the conclusion that CBP wanted for Allousa's child to be in deplorable conditions, or that CBP chose that her FIL spent the night in jail rather than to take the flight back to Morrocco is improper. Why is it that you can't accept that it might have been for some other reason that the FIL was refused entry? Why is it that it is incomprehensible for you to consider that it could have been for a technicality? Why would you rather accuse the US of considering himn a threat to national security?

It may indeed have been a series of unfortunate coincidences. When I read the ouitrage, without consideration for the coincidences, this is the sort of "reverse discrimination" bothers me to read.

[♥JP♥ 5]

You have offered plenty regarding what he may or may not have said, his intent to immigrate, if his documents& passport were indeed valid. Like others have said, it's very clear that Allousa and her family are getting legal support somewhere else. This situation could very well happen to anyone here and I'm pretty sure if it happened to you (God forbid) you may find yourself singing a different tune.

Maybe you believe that we shouldn't condemn the USA for treating an elderly man this way, but if we do that is OUR choice. From what we know, from Allousa and her family, he didn't pose any kind of threat and to be quie honest that is the only side I care about. She came here for support not for legal mumbo jumbo or for anyone here to point fingers at her FIL. I'm sure she is aware she will here that legal talk somewhere else, but it's different when that advice is solicited and comes from a professional.

Once again, and emphatically, let me spell it out again....I am not offering legal advice. I am offering facts as to when expedited removal is just, legal and within reason. And for your information, since you clearly missed the first time I indicated it, expedited removal is not simply due to someone being a perceived "threat" to the US. It can be a border agent's remedy to any one of a number of inadmissibility issues. Tens of thousands of aliens are refused entry to the US each year; some by virtue of their choice, are removed expeditiously; some, by virtue of misunderstanding their options, are defaulted to expedited removal because they refuse to surrender their application for entry. We don't know if this option was offered to Allousa's FIL, but to simply assume it wasn't is just as incorrect as the treatment you conclude was inappropriate. It could well be that he was offered to depart the USA, without ER, but didn't know what answer to give. How can any of us know right now?

Jumping to the conclusion that the US agents abused their authority is improper at this juncture, just as jumping to the conclusion that CBP wanted for Allousa's child to be in deplorable conditions, or that CBP chose that her FIL spent the night in jail rather than to take the flight back to Morrocco is improper. Why is it that you can't accept that it might have been for some other reason that the FIL was refused entry? Why is it that it is incomprehensible for you to consider that it could have been for a technicality? Why would you rather accuse the US of considering himn a threat to national security?

It may indeed have been a series of unfortunate coincidences. When I read the ouitrage, without consideration for the coincidences, this is the sort of "reverse discrimination" bothers me to read.

Then don't read it. I never said that I couldnt accept that maybe there were some other reasons for the FIL's removal. However, I am only here to offer my support to ALlousa and her family