Where is the outrage?

[Peikko 1,575]

All I do know is that the non-evacuees in New Orleans had lead-time, they were told this was an impending catastrophic event and they CHOSE to stay right in it's path.

That could well be true but there are people who stay because leaving would be equally problamatic for them. I would asume that they thought staying was the least worst option.

This is somewhat true of those living in flood plains in Bangladesh seeing as they 'know' that this flooding happens time and time again but they don't really have any options to be anywhere else so even if there was a warning issued, the results would likely be more or less the same as they are now.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

When Bangladesh has its worst type of flooding (about once every few decades), almost half the country goes under water. And the population density is mad high as it is, there's just no way they can all fit in to the remaining half. It sucks, why do you think they're all moving to the Queens

[LaL 418]

Ah yes, take responsibility for yourselves you lily livered (that's probably not pc) 'victims' of natural disasters. That earth quake really wasn't so bad, that tsunami was just a little wave, that hurricane was just a little storm. I blame those whingers from the third world. They never do anything for themselves, always have their caps in hand looking for a handout. Honestly we should just nuke anyone who doesn't sing yankee doodle dandee when they get hit by a freak of nature!

Alot of the tragic loss of life during Katrina was down to lack of personal responsibility on the part of non-evacuees, bad organization and disaster response mechanisms at a LOCAL government level and chaotic FEMA organization, response and structure.

There was at least a 4 day lead time on that hurricane. Not long, true, but a lot longer than the victims of tsunamis and earthquakes have. Here in a non-third world country with a strong communications infrastructure, advanced meteorological forecasting technology and at least some sort of disaster preparedness plans, the loss of life after Katrina was partly down to some people waiting for the Govt to just "do something"..........And we all know where that gets you in most nations.

Interestingly, tsunamis and quakes happen frequently in countries [ some 3rd world] that have no widespread communications system, no enforceable disaster preparedness plan-yet how many of their citizens blame their Govt for the loss of life after their disasters- or maybe it's just not publisized...I don't know.

All I do know is that the non-evacuees in New Orleans had lead-time, they were told this was an impending catastrophic event and they CHOSE to stay right in it's path.

I have to say having lived in Florida for 7 years - during 2004 and 2005 during this peak of hurricane activity was a weekly stressor. All we heard was direct hit this, direct hit that constantly - week after week. I packed up my house so many times, listened to the radio all nights, packed up my desk at work to be able to mobilize up to Boston to ensure no loss of revenue, - for nothing to happen (thankfully!) But after hearing this so much, and packing so many times, I became desensitized. Heck even if I wasnt, plywood was way out of stock, as were other items necessary to "prepare". After 2004 and well into the season of 2005 I am sure I was not alone in this.

I am not saying its right - but just saying hindsight is always 20x20. They *should* have gotten out of there (those that had the ability to do so). But I personally, understand why many stayed.

[Peikko 1,575]

When Bangladesh has its worst type of flooding (about once every few decades), almost half the country goes under water. And the population density is mad high as it is, there's just no way they can all fit in to the remaining half. It sucks, why do you think they're all moving to the Queens

It's natural selection...

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

All I do know is that the non-evacuees in New Orleans had lead-time, they were told this was an impending catastrophic event and they CHOSE to stay right in it's path.

That could well be true but there are people who stay because leaving would be equally problamatic for them. I would asume that they thought staying was the least worst option.

This is somewhat true of those living in flood plains in Bangladesh seeing as they 'know' that this flooding happens time and time again but they don't really have any options to be anywhere else so even if there was a warning issued, the results would likely be more or less the same as they are now.

Yeah they can't move because the Ganges Delta is the most fertile farmland in the region and they're dependent on subsistence agriculture to survive. The death toll in some of those flood events is really staggering - up to 1000,000,000 dead in 1973 (from the initial event, and subsequent disease outbreaks) and another big one in hundreds of thousands during the early 90's.

Edited July 10, 2008 by Number 6

[tmma 467]

Ah yes, take responsibility for yourselves you lily livered (that's probably not pc) 'victims' of natural disasters. That earth quake really wasn't so bad, that tsunami was just a little wave, that hurricane was just a little storm. I blame those whingers from the third world. They never do anything for themselves, always have their caps in hand looking for a handout. Honestly we should just nuke anyone who doesn't sing yankee doodle dandee when they get hit by a freak of nature!

Alot of the tragic loss of life during Katrina was down to lack of personal responsibility on the part of non-evacuees, bad organization and disaster response mechanisms at a LOCAL government level and chaotic FEMA organization, response and structure.

There was at least a 4 day lead time on that hurricane. Not long, true, but a lot longer than the victims of tsunamis and earthquakes have. Here in a non-third world country with a strong communications infrastructure, advanced meteorological forecasting technology and at least some sort of disaster preparedness plans, the loss of life after Katrina was partly down to some people waiting for the Govt to just "do something"..........And we all know where that gets you in most nations.

Interestingly, tsunamis and quakes happen frequently in countries [ some 3rd world] that have no widespread communications system, no enforceable disaster preparedness plan-yet how many of their citizens blame their Govt for the loss of life after their disasters- or maybe it's just not publisized...I don't know.

All I do know is that the non-evacuees in New Orleans had lead-time, they were told this was an impending catastrophic event and they CHOSE to stay right in it's path.

In 3rd world countries it isn't publicised because rural (typically subsistence agriculture) populations in places such as Bangladesh (where storm surge flooding has killed up to 300,000,000 in some notable incidents - don't have much of a political voice in their own destiny. Certainly not to hold the government accountable. Generally why so many relief operations in these countries are dependent on foreign aid.

I would also suggest that the same political apathy holds true for poor communities in the US.

Well, While I agree that political apathy exists here in poorer communities (and some wealthy ones)---where is common sense? Just talking Katrina/New Orleans here.

As for the storm surge in places like Bangladesh that you mentioned, I agree with you.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

When Bangladesh has its worst type of flooding (about once every few decades), almost half the country goes under water. And the population density is mad high as it is, there's just no way they can all fit in to the remaining half. It sucks, why do you think they're all moving to the Queens

It's natural selection...

I feel bad for them... my dads side of the family and my wifes moms side of the family are both originally from what is now Bangladesh. I am glad they left for (what is now) India.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Ah yes, take responsibility for yourselves you lily livered (that's probably not pc) 'victims' of natural disasters. That earth quake really wasn't so bad, that tsunami was just a little wave, that hurricane was just a little storm. I blame those whingers from the third world. They never do anything for themselves, always have their caps in hand looking for a handout. Honestly we should just nuke anyone who doesn't sing yankee doodle dandee when they get hit by a freak of nature!

Alot of the tragic loss of life during Katrina was down to lack of personal responsibility on the part of non-evacuees, bad organization and disaster response mechanisms at a LOCAL government level and chaotic FEMA organization, response and structure.

There was at least a 4 day lead time on that hurricane. Not long, true, but a lot longer than the victims of tsunamis and earthquakes have. Here in a non-third world country with a strong communications infrastructure, advanced meteorological forecasting technology and at least some sort of disaster preparedness plans, the loss of life after Katrina was partly down to some people waiting for the Govt to just "do something"..........And we all know where that gets you in most nations.

Interestingly, tsunamis and quakes happen frequently in countries [ some 3rd world] that have no widespread communications system, no enforceable disaster preparedness plan-yet how many of their citizens blame their Govt for the loss of life after their disasters- or maybe it's just not publisized...I don't know.

All I do know is that the non-evacuees in New Orleans had lead-time, they were told this was an impending catastrophic event and they CHOSE to stay right in it's path.

In 3rd world countries it isn't publicised because rural (typically subsistence agriculture) populations in places such as Bangladesh (where storm surge flooding has killed up to 300,000,000 in some notable incidents - don't have much of a political voice in their own destiny. Certainly not to hold the government accountable. Generally why so many relief operations in these countries are dependent on foreign aid.

I would also suggest that the same political apathy holds true for poor communities in the US.

Well, While I agree that political apathy exists here in poorer communities (and some wealthy ones)---where is common sense? Just talking Katrina/New Orleans here.

As for the storm surge in places like Bangladesh that you mentioned, I agree with you.

Common sense in what regard? Its not easy to move out of your home - in many cases it's not possible because people want to stay and protect their homes from looters.

[Heracles 417]

Right now there is a hearing about whether or not FEMA knew the trailers they gave Katrina victims were contained with toxic levels of formaldehyde.

Oh okay. Because the houses these people lived in prior to Katrina must have been safe and all.

[tmma 467]

All I do know is that the non-evacuees in New Orleans had lead-time, they were told this was an impending catastrophic event and they CHOSE to stay right in it's path.

That could well be true but there are people who stay because leaving would be equally problamatic for them. I would asume that they thought staying was the least worst option.

They were TOLD numerous times, this was a catastrophic hurricane and to evacuate. The warnings from the NHC stated that "staying in this hurricane's path would result in significant loss of life, catastrophic damage to buildings and infrastructures...etc" how could staying be the lessor of 2 bad options? Not being argumentative here, just asking.

This is somewhat true of those living in flood plains in Bangladesh seeing as they 'know' that this flooding happens time and time again but they don't really have any options to be anywhere else so even if there was a warning issued, the results would likely be more or less the same as they are now.

Sadly for those, I agree with you on their situation. Most people in NOLA had more options available to them than do most the residents of the flood plains of Bangladesh.

[LaL 418]

Ah yes, take responsibility for yourselves you lily livered (that's probably not pc) 'victims' of natural disasters. That earth quake really wasn't so bad, that tsunami was just a little wave, that hurricane was just a little storm. I blame those whingers from the third world. They never do anything for themselves, always have their caps in hand looking for a handout. Honestly we should just nuke anyone who doesn't sing yankee doodle dandee when they get hit by a freak of nature!

Alot of the tragic loss of life during Katrina was down to lack of personal responsibility on the part of non-evacuees, bad organization and disaster response mechanisms at a LOCAL government level and chaotic FEMA organization, response and structure.

There was at least a 4 day lead time on that hurricane. Not long, true, but a lot longer than the victims of tsunamis and earthquakes have. Here in a non-third world country with a strong communications infrastructure, advanced meteorological forecasting technology and at least some sort of disaster preparedness plans, the loss of life after Katrina was partly down to some people waiting for the Govt to just "do something"..........And we all know where that gets you in most nations.

Interestingly, tsunamis and quakes happen frequently in countries [ some 3rd world] that have no widespread communications system, no enforceable disaster preparedness plan-yet how many of their citizens blame their Govt for the loss of life after their disasters- or maybe it's just not publisized...I don't know.

All I do know is that the non-evacuees in New Orleans had lead-time, they were told this was an impending catastrophic event and they CHOSE to stay right in it's path.

In 3rd world countries it isn't publicised because rural (typically subsistence agriculture) populations in places such as Bangladesh (where storm surge flooding has killed up to 300,000,000 in some notable incidents - don't have much of a political voice in their own destiny. Certainly not to hold the government accountable. Generally why so many relief operations in these countries are dependent on foreign aid.

I would also suggest that the same political apathy holds true for poor communities in the US.

Well, While I agree that political apathy exists here in poorer communities (and some wealthy ones)---where is common sense? Just talking Katrina/New Orleans here.

As for the storm surge in places like Bangladesh that you mentioned, I agree with you.

You don't think hearing of impending doom (aka hurricane just formed) for two full seasons week after week had some sort of effect on how those who could going? Like I said - it certainly did affect me!

[tmma 467]

Ah yes, take responsibility for yourselves you lily livered (that's probably not pc) 'victims' of natural disasters. That earth quake really wasn't so bad, that tsunami was just a little wave, that hurricane was just a little storm. I blame those whingers from the third world. They never do anything for themselves, always have their caps in hand looking for a handout. Honestly we should just nuke anyone who doesn't sing yankee doodle dandee when they get hit by a freak of nature!

Alot of the tragic loss of life during Katrina was down to lack of personal responsibility on the part of non-evacuees, bad organization and disaster response mechanisms at a LOCAL government level and chaotic FEMA organization, response and structure.

There was at least a 4 day lead time on that hurricane. Not long, true, but a lot longer than the victims of tsunamis and earthquakes have. Here in a non-third world country with a strong communications infrastructure, advanced meteorological forecasting technology and at least some sort of disaster preparedness plans, the loss of life after Katrina was partly down to some people waiting for the Govt to just "do something"..........And we all know where that gets you in most nations.

Interestingly, tsunamis and quakes happen frequently in countries [ some 3rd world] that have no widespread communications system, no enforceable disaster preparedness plan-yet how many of their citizens blame their Govt for the loss of life after their disasters- or maybe it's just not publisized...I don't know.

All I do know is that the non-evacuees in New Orleans had lead-time, they were told this was an impending catastrophic event and they CHOSE to stay right in it's path.

In 3rd world countries it isn't publicised because rural (typically subsistence agriculture) populations in places such as Bangladesh (where storm surge flooding has killed up to 300,000,000 in some notable incidents - don't have much of a political voice in their own destiny. Certainly not to hold the government accountable. Generally why so many relief operations in these countries are dependent on foreign aid.

I would also suggest that the same political apathy holds true for poor communities in the US.

Well, While I agree that political apathy exists here in poorer communities (and some wealthy ones)---where is common sense? Just talking Katrina/New Orleans here.

As for the storm surge in places like Bangladesh that you mentioned, I agree with you.

Common sense in what regard? Its not easy to move out of your home - in many cases it's not possible because people want to stay and protect their homes from looters.

Common sense in the regard that "hey if you stay you will likely die" or "leave and live......yes, your house may get looted, but you will be alive"

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Ah yes, take responsibility for yourselves you lily livered (that's probably not pc) 'victims' of natural disasters. That earth quake really wasn't so bad, that tsunami was just a little wave, that hurricane was just a little storm. I blame those whingers from the third world. They never do anything for themselves, always have their caps in hand looking for a handout. Honestly we should just nuke anyone who doesn't sing yankee doodle dandee when they get hit by a freak of nature!

Alot of the tragic loss of life during Katrina was down to lack of personal responsibility on the part of non-evacuees, bad organization and disaster response mechanisms at a LOCAL government level and chaotic FEMA organization, response and structure.

There was at least a 4 day lead time on that hurricane. Not long, true, but a lot longer than the victims of tsunamis and earthquakes have. Here in a non-third world country with a strong communications infrastructure, advanced meteorological forecasting technology and at least some sort of disaster preparedness plans, the loss of life after Katrina was partly down to some people waiting for the Govt to just "do something"..........And we all know where that gets you in most nations.

Interestingly, tsunamis and quakes happen frequently in countries [ some 3rd world] that have no widespread communications system, no enforceable disaster preparedness plan-yet how many of their citizens blame their Govt for the loss of life after their disasters- or maybe it's just not publisized...I don't know.

All I do know is that the non-evacuees in New Orleans had lead-time, they were told this was an impending catastrophic event and they CHOSE to stay right in it's path.

In 3rd world countries it isn't publicised because rural (typically subsistence agriculture) populations in places such as Bangladesh (where storm surge flooding has killed up to 300,000,000 in some notable incidents - don't have much of a political voice in their own destiny. Certainly not to hold the government accountable. Generally why so many relief operations in these countries are dependent on foreign aid.

I would also suggest that the same political apathy holds true for poor communities in the US.

Well, While I agree that political apathy exists here in poorer communities (and some wealthy ones)---where is common sense? Just talking Katrina/New Orleans here.

As for the storm surge in places like Bangladesh that you mentioned, I agree with you.

Common sense in what regard? Its not easy to move out of your home - in many cases it's not possible because people want to stay and protect their homes from looters.

Common sense in the regard that "hey if you stay you will likely die" or "leave and live......yes, your house may get looted, but you will be alive"

True - but this area is hit by hurricanes almost every year. As Lal said - after a while you probably get numb to it, especially if you're used to waiting out the storms - as indeed many people do.

[Heracles 417]

Midwesterners know how to take care of themselves. They aren't welfare leaches looting a flat screen.

Edited July 10, 2008 by Boo-Yah!

[jundp 191]

Ok, I have to admit that I stopped reading because I was getting irritated so if some of this has been said already, ignore me.

We also tend to evacuate when we are told to evacuate in the midwest.

I agree with you to a certain extent here. Except that many many many of the people who "stayed behind" during Katrina did so because they had no way out of the city. Public transportation had stopped and so many of those people didn't have cars or ways to leave.

Also, and I'm not trying to just make excuses for my hometown people, but the fact is that we'd been expecting the "big storm" for about 10 years. Now, my family left when the evac order came in, but I can see why many old-timers didn't. Plus, the entire Gulf Coast was decimated in a way it hadn't been since Camille.

That being said, I would never claim that NOLA and Katrina was worse than the flooding now. And I totally agree that there seems to be more banding together in the Midwest than there was in the Gulf Coast.

I believe by "chocolate New Orleans" the guy was meaning that the city wouldn't lose its historical character (for which the city was known), which controversial as it may sound (and I really don't think it is) is connected to the ethnic mixture of the people who lived there.

People might be offended by the phraseology, but its not half as controversial as people want to make out.

It was racist and controversial. There's no other way to look at it. Even many African-Americans from the area found it to be such. Louisiana's rich heritage is Spanish, French, Caribbean, Haitian, Acadian...as well as African. That's not what Nagin was referring to. He could have drawn on the rich cultural heritage but he didn't.

Also, I'm not sure about the celebrities, but Harry Connick Jr is a NOLA boy through and through. He has ALWAYS been there for the city. He didn't go back to bring cameras and say "OMGZORZ LOOK AT ME AND WHAT I AM DOING!!!!11" He went back because his family is Louisiana and he has incredibly strong ties. As well, the Music Rising Project was born out of the belief in music therapy and attempting to protect the rich and very diverse musical heritage in Louisiana.

Finally, and I'll get off my soapbox soon, I think that we need to make this thread about the Midwest and the people in need there.

Midwesterners know how to take care of themselves. They aren't welfare leaches looting a flat screen.

Wow. Just...wow. Yeah, all people in the Gulf Coast are welfare leeches. Yep. That would be my whole family.

PS Please spell "leeches" correctly. Kthxbye