Where is the outrage?

[Heracles 417]

To me, the issue isn't whether people got out or not. To me, it's how people react after certain natural disasters. Some people help themselves and help their neighbors. They may hope for the government to help them individually, but they're not expecting it.

Other people just complain and expect the house fairy to send them a house the next day and the money fairy to give them pre-paid VISA cards.

On the other hand though, not everyone reacts the same way. I remember seeing a positive story about Hurricane Katrina on TV, where people busted their a$$es helping themselves and their neighbors. At the time the story ran, their neighborhood was light years ahead of other New Orleans neighborhoods because they were PROACTIVE and not REACTIVE. This isn't the story I saw, but it's about the same group. story

Here is the dateline video on it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19292199/

Edited July 10, 2008 by Boo-Yah!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Oh Jesus - here we go again...

Lets define the entire black population of NO by the worst examples we can find.

Unlike your examples right. So show me otherwise..

Why? You've already made up your mind.

And we've already been around the houses on the issue of Blacks in American, whether its in New Orleans, New Jersey, Los Angeles or anywhere else in the country. I just wish you could accept the idea that there complex human beings in these situations who don't fit the grotesque stereotypes you consistently want to apply to them.

[tmma 467]

From what I understand 2/3 of the pre-Katrina population of NO has returned to the city.

The truth is that much of the devastation at the Convention Center and the Superdome happened to blacks in the city who didn't have a way to get out.

That's not pulling a race card...that's stating the facts.

I don't know about other demographics but if someone advised me of a huge storm and I lived within a city protected by levees; I would get out. But hey that is just me.

Otherwise I guess I too could simply wait there, loot, and then blame the federal government for everything. "Where's job Buuuuuuuush..." style. Because much like Canada, the UK and Australia, America is obviously a federally oriented nation. Therefore little responsibility falls on the city, county and state government right?

I imagine its easier to make a blanket judgement about what people should do in a situation - if you're not in that situation yourself, and you aren't them.

where's the "blanket judgement"?

See bolded.

I don't see how the bolded part is a "judgement". BY said their choice would be to evacuate. How much more emphatic did the warnings have to get?

I have never before and never since seen a warning issued like this....

000

WWUS74 KLIX 281550

NPWLIX

URGENT - WEATHER MESSAGE

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW ORLEANS LA

1011 AM CDT SUN AUG 28 2005

...DEVASTATING DAMAGE EXPECTED...

.HURRICANE KATRINA...A MOST POWERFUL HURRICANE WITH UNPRECEDENTED

STRENGTH...RIVALING THE INTENSITY OF HURRICANE CAMILLE OF 1969.

MOST OF THE AREA WILL BE UNINHABITABLE FOR WEEKS...PERHAPS LONGER. AT

LEAST ONE HALF OF WELL CONSTRUCTED HOMES WILL HAVE ROOF AND WALL

FAILURE. ALL GABLED ROOFS WILL FAIL...LEAVING THOSE HOMES SEVERELY

DAMAGED OR DESTROYED.

THE MAJORITY OF INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS WILL BECOME NON FUNCTIONAL.

PARTIAL TO COMPLETE WALL AND ROOF FAILURE IS EXPECTED. ALL WOOD

FRAMED LOW RISING APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL BE DESTROYED. CONCRETE

BLOCK LOW RISE APARTMENTS WILL SUSTAIN MAJOR DAMAGE...INCLUDING SOME

WALL AND ROOF FAILURE.

HIGH RISE OFFICE AND APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL SWAY DANGEROUSLY...A

FEW TO THE POINT OF TOTAL COLLAPSE. ALL WINDOWS WILL BLOW OUT.

AIRBORNE DEBRIS WILL BE WIDESPREAD...AND MAY INCLUDE HEAVY ITEMS SUCH

AS HOUSEHOLD APPLIANCES AND EVEN LIGHT VEHICLES. SPORT UTILITY

VEHICLES AND LIGHT TRUCKS WILL BE MOVED. THE BLOWN DEBRIS WILL CREATE

ADDITIONAL DESTRUCTION. PERSONS...PETS...AND LIVESTOCK EXPOSED TO THE

WINDS WILL FACE CERTAIN DEATH IF STRUCK.

POWER OUTAGES WILL LAST FOR WEEKS...AS MOST POWER POLES WILL BE DOWN

AND TRANSFORMERS DESTROYED. WATER SHORTAGES WILL MAKE HUMAN SUFFERING

INCREDIBLE BY MODERN STANDARDS.

THE VAST MAJORITY OF NATIVE TREES WILL BE SNAPPED OR UPROOTED. ONLY

THE HEARTIEST WILL REMAIN STANDING...BUT BE TOTALLY DEFOLIATED. FEW

CROPS WILL REMAIN. LIVESTOCK LEFT EXPOSED TO THE WINDS WILL BE

KILLED.

AN INLAND HURRICANE WIND WARNING IS ISSUED WHEN SUSTAINED WINDS NEAR

HURRICANE FORCE...OR FREQUENT GUSTS AT OR ABOVE HURRICANE FORCE...ARE

CERTAIN WITHIN THE NEXT 12 TO 24 HOURS.

ONCE TROPICAL STORM AND HURRICANE FORCE WINDS ONSET...DO NOT VENTURE

OUTSIDE!

--------------------------------

[amiquechu 0]

It's kind of ironic, given how the midwest as a whole is a leach on the rest of the country. They'll have a leg to stand on debates like these when they pay more into the treasury than they take, like California or New York or New Jersey or Florida. Until then, they shoudl STFU with their little hard working mythology.

So you're telling me if I moved to New Jersey my life would FINALLY be worth something? Cool! I'm there.

[Peikko 1,575]

We have already been told by people who live in the area that getting out was not a choice some of the poorest people could make.

[Heracles 417]

Lol. You are a pom after all. So you would probably stay there yourself and then complain about it.

Nah its simpler than that. Quite simply - I wouldn't have the gall to sit in an ivory chair and tell people what they should or shouldn't do.

Pedestrian comments are easy to come by in situations like this, and talk is cheap - as they say...

Call me crazy but I would get out.

If I had refused to get out, I certainly wouldn't have turned around to blame the government and George Bush. Especially after being given a warning to leave days earlier.

Edited July 10, 2008 by Boo-Yah!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

From what I understand 2/3 of the pre-Katrina population of NO has returned to the city.

The truth is that much of the devastation at the Convention Center and the Superdome happened to blacks in the city who didn't have a way to get out.

That's not pulling a race card...that's stating the facts.

I don't know about other demographics but if someone advised me of a huge storm and I lived within a city protected by levees; I would get out. But hey that is just me.

Otherwise I guess I too could simply wait there, loot, and then blame the federal government for everything. "Where's job Buuuuuuuush..." style. Because much like Canada, the UK and Australia, America is obviously a federally oriented nation. Therefore little responsibility falls on the city, county and state government right?

I imagine its easier to make a blanket judgement about what people should do in a situation - if you're not in that situation yourself, and you aren't them.

where's the "blanket judgement"?

See bolded.

I don't see how the bolded part is a "judgement". BY said their choice would be to evacuate. How much more emphatic did the warnings have to get?

I have never before and never since seen a warning issued like this....

Come on its an obvious judgement. "Ooh if I got a warning like that I'd be out of there sharpish!". Sure that might seem obvious to someone who doesn't live in a place where dealing with hurricanes or other natural disasters is commonplace - anyone not used to that would find such a thing an extreme event. You don't know whether those people are numbed to such warnings (as Lal suggested), whether they had sick relatives who could not be moved or what reasoning factored into their decision to stay. Again its easy to make such judgements - as to what others should do when its a decision you yourself don't have to make.

We have already been told by people who live in the area that getting out was not a choice some of the poorest people could make.

That is my understanding also.

[Heracles 417]

And we've already been around the houses on the issue of Blacks in American, whether its in New Orleans, New Jersey, Los Angeles or anywhere else in the country. I just wish you could accept the idea that there complex human beings in these situations who don't fit the grotesque stereotypes you consistently want to apply to them.

Have you seen the following MSNBC report.

THE VIETNAMESE-AMERICAN COMMUNITY RECOVERS AFTER KATRINA

We in the media don’t do enough of them. So when I heard about the Vietnamese-Americans of New Orleans and how their remarkable recovery after Katrina lifted an entire community, I was intrigued.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19292199/

Edited July 10, 2008 by Boo-Yah!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

And we've already been around the houses on the issue of Blacks in American, whether its in New Orleans, New Jersey, Los Angeles or anywhere else in the country. I just wish you could accept the idea that there complex human beings in these situations who don't fit the grotesque stereotypes you consistently want to apply to them.

Have you seen the following MSNBC report.

THE VIETNAMESE-AMERICAN COMMUNITY RECOVERS AFTER KATRINA

We in the media don’t do enough of them. So when I heard about the Vietnamese-Americans of New Orleans and how their remarkable recovery after Katrina lifted an entire community, I was intrigued.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19292199/

Different dynamics in the poorer areas.

[Heracles 417]

I don't see how the bolded part is a "judgement". BY said their choice would be to evacuate. How much more emphatic did the warnings have to get?

I have never before and never since seen a warning issued like this....

WWUS74 KLIX 281550

NPWLIX

URGENT - WEATHER MESSAGE

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW ORLEANS LA

1011 AM CDT SUN AUG 28 2005

...DEVASTATING DAMAGE EXPECTED...

.HURRICANE KATRINA...A MOST POWERFUL HURRICANE WITH UNPRECEDENTED

STRENGTH...RIVALING THE INTENSITY OF HURRICANE CAMILLE OF 1969.

MOST OF THE AREA WILL BE UNINHABITABLE FOR WEEKS...PERHAPS LONGER. AT

LEAST ONE HALF OF WELL CONSTRUCTED HOMES WILL HAVE ROOF AND WALL

FAILURE. ALL GABLED ROOFS WILL FAIL...LEAVING THOSE HOMES SEVERELY

DAMAGED OR DESTROYED.

THE MAJORITY OF INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS WILL BECOME NON FUNCTIONAL.

PARTIAL TO COMPLETE WALL AND ROOF FAILURE IS EXPECTED. ALL WOOD

FRAMED LOW RISING APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL BE DESTROYED. CONCRETE

BLOCK LOW RISE APARTMENTS WILL SUSTAIN MAJOR DAMAGE...INCLUDING SOME

WALL AND ROOF FAILURE.

HIGH RISE OFFICE AND APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL SWAY DANGEROUSLY...A

FEW TO THE POINT OF TOTAL COLLAPSE. ALL WINDOWS WILL BLOW OUT.

AIRBORNE DEBRIS WILL BE WIDESPREAD...AND MAY INCLUDE HEAVY ITEMS SUCH

AS HOUSEHOLD APPLIANCES AND EVEN LIGHT VEHICLES. SPORT UTILITY

VEHICLES AND LIGHT TRUCKS WILL BE MOVED. THE BLOWN DEBRIS WILL CREATE

ADDITIONAL DESTRUCTION. PERSONS...PETS...AND LIVESTOCK EXPOSED TO THE

WINDS WILL FACE CERTAIN DEATH IF STRUCK.

POWER OUTAGES WILL LAST FOR WEEKS...AS MOST POWER POLES WILL BE DOWN

AND TRANSFORMERS DESTROYED. WATER SHORTAGES WILL MAKE HUMAN SUFFERING

INCREDIBLE BY MODERN STANDARDS.

THE VAST MAJORITY OF NATIVE TREES WILL BE SNAPPED OR UPROOTED. ONLY

THE HEARTIEST WILL REMAIN STANDING...BUT BE TOTALLY DEFOLIATED. FEW

CROPS WILL REMAIN. LIVESTOCK LEFT EXPOSED TO THE WINDS WILL BE

KILLED.

AN INLAND HURRICANE WIND WARNING IS ISSUED WHEN SUSTAINED WINDS NEAR

HURRICANE FORCE...OR FREQUENT GUSTS AT OR ABOVE HURRICANE FORCE...ARE

CERTAIN WITHIN THE NEXT 12 TO 24 HOURS.

ONCE TROPICAL STORM AND HURRICANE FORCE WINDS ONSET...DO NOT VENTURE

OUTSIDE!

--------------------------------

And we've already been around the houses on the issue of Blacks in American, whether its in New Orleans, New Jersey, Los Angeles or anywhere else in the country. I just wish you could accept the idea that there complex human beings in these situations who don't fit the grotesque stereotypes you consistently want to apply to them.

Have you seen the following MSNBC report.

THE VIETNAMESE-AMERICAN COMMUNITY RECOVERS AFTER KATRINA

We in the media don’t do enough of them. So when I heard about the Vietnamese-Americans of New Orleans and how their remarkable recovery after Katrina lifted an entire community, I was intrigued.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19292199/

Different dynamics in the poorer areas.

Ahh okay. That must be it.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Ahh okay. That must be it.

Glad you agree.

[Marlita 0]

Well, I [for one] am not "judging" anyone-just stating my opinion. I don't care if you are poor, rich, white, green, black, pink, purple, or yellow.......

To hell with the purple people. Somebody's got to draw the line somewhere.

Why do people make pointless comments like this stating how they dont care if your black white yellow pink purple....blah blah blah. Those are useless statements because of course there are no purple people. Show me the culture that is referred to as Purples! Purple-Americans! We are not Black-Americans by the color of our skin.....our skin color is not black for one. Its Brown or many shades of brown. When speaks of Black people in disdain you are not speaking of our skin you are speaking of our culture. So to say you dont care about the 500 million other colors of people is ignorant cause they DON'T EXIST!

Get real people. Obviously by this thread, people are natural stereotypers. They percieve certain things by what they have been told, or seen or exposed to and most times not by what is actually true. Its depressing as a Black person in this country to constantly come to the OT forums and see such ill statements made about Black-Americans....as if we are all the same, as if we have no feelings and as if we cause others in this country so much pain. Each cultural group of people have "bad apples", but it seems that the ONLY opinion made on Visa Journey OT forums, about Black people, is NEGATIVE! Why is that? And just about ALL the comments come from people who have never took the time to delve into the life of an average Black-American. We are merely and simply Americans, nothing less nothing more. But as you can tell from how people perceive us we are constantly seen as this seperate American entity causing us to never truly feel as if we belong to the country in which we've lived in and known our ENTIRE generation. We are not 2nd or 3rd or 4th generation Americans....we are orginal Americans. We are just a cultural group in America.

This whole idealogy of putting Katrina victims against those of the recent Mid-West floods and braking it down by racial issues is pure ignorance...where is the outrage in that? I dont even know how this became a racial issue. Or better yet another VJ ranting thread to state degrading comments about Blacks! I dont see Blacks or other cultures on here making degrading comments about Whites. Why is it always the other way around? Why do people have such a malevolent reactions towards Black people. It is extremely hurtful and just one of those things that most all Blacks wish would end. We have been having enough of that in our country and just want to be made to feel apart of it.

[Marlita 0]

From what I understand 2/3 of the pre-Katrina population of NO has returned to the city.

The truth is that much of the devastation at the Convention Center and the Superdome happened to blacks in the city who didn't have a way to get out.

That's not pulling a race card...that's stating the facts.

I don't know about other demographics but if someone advised me of a huge storm and I lived within a city protected by levees; I would get out. But hey that is just me.

Otherwise I guess I too could simply wait there, loot, and then blame the federal government for everything. "Where's job Buuuuuuuush..." style. Because much like Canada, the UK and Australia, America is obviously a federally oriented nation. Therefore little responsibility falls on the city, county and state government right?

I imagine its easier to make a blanket judgement about what people should do in a situation - if you're not in that situation yourself, and you aren't them.

where's the "blanket judgement"?

See bolded.

I don't see how the bolded part is a "judgement". BY said their choice would be to evacuate. How much more emphatic did the warnings have to get?

I have never before and never since seen a warning issued like this....

Come on its an obvious judgement. "Ooh if I got a warning like that I'd be out of there sharpish!". Sure that might seem obvious to someone who doesn't live in a place where dealing with hurricanes or other natural disasters is commonplace - anyone not used to that would find such a thing an extreme event. You don't know whether those people are numbed to such warnings (as Lal suggested), whether they had sick relatives who could not be moved or what reasoning factored into their decision to stay. Again its easy to make such judgements - as to what others should do when its a decision you yourself don't have to make.

We have already been told by people who live in the area that getting out was not a choice some of the poorest people could make.

That is my understanding also.

Thats true. Its the same way people here in California feel about earthquakes. most times I dont even get out of bed if i feel one cause I dont care too much about them. Same with wildfires. when they become so commonplace you get numb to reacting to them as urgently as someone who has never experienced one.

[tmma 467]

We have already been told by people who live in the area that getting out was not a choice some of the poorest people could make.

Right, and like I said earlier-LOCAL officials were kept constantly appraised of the impending situation DAYS beforehand.

Provisions could and should have been made for the poor, sick and infirm at the local level, in their local Govt's [non-existent] preparedness plan.Here is a resource that could have been used if the local Govt had chosen to

There is a huge amount of blame to spread everywhere, including individual choices of property over life, to officials not utilizing resources they had soon enough.

[Ban Hammer 13,656]