How is your spouse adjusting

[♥JP♥ 5]

The reality is that I love him with no conditions and I am trying to be forgiving and loving and hang in there. Its been tough thats for sure. I am sure I have opened my self up to an onslaught of criticism but thats why I come here because you guys understand stuff and many on the outside wouldnt

Why? If he doesn't love you and respect you, then why be loving and forgiving? The reality is he has to love you unconditionally as well, and according to what you have posted so far it doesn't seem that he does. You can't make this relationship work with your love alone.

[Nutty 2]

Be sure, Wahrania, we are not here to criticize you. Listen, we all know how hard it is to sponsor someone to come here. It's so hard to admit to family and friends (those who see you in the flesh everyday) that "things aren't working out" because you are frightened of the "I told you so's" or the "I knew it would not work out" sentences that may follow. That's why our little group is special. We all have a shared experience in marrying and bringing a foreign spouse to live with us and the ups and downs that come with the territory.

Please don't think that advice, sometimes deliveried sternly (I admit I do this at times) is a criticism. Really, we just want to help.

The reality is that I love him with no conditions and I am trying to be forgiving and loving and hang in there. Its been tough thats for sure. I am sure I have opened my self up to an onslaught of criticism but thats why I come here because you guys understand stuff and many on the outside wouldnt

[Ban Hammer 13,112]

#######! :blink: :blink:

[RAKASA 0]

oh my........... let me check my crystal ball again.

[Staashi 371]

I think of you MENA gals alot and my respect for you runs deep...you are truly unique in that many of you, not all, have converted to Islam, you wear hijab and abayas, and you leave behind so much of yourself for your husband.

Who converts their religion for another person? If that were true it wouldn't be anything more than an act to show for the other person. I have only met one person in my life who converted their religion to marry someone.... she was Budhist and he was catholic and the priest wouldn't marry them if she didn't convert (on paper even lol) and go to classes before the wedding. She still lights incense in front of the lil Budha in her shop (and so does her catholic hubby and he even refills the food and tea )

I mean no offense to you personally but I get so tired of everyone assuming when a woman converts to Islam that it MUST be because she's trying to please her husband (or to find one)

there is a reason why immigration gives you that Conditional Greencard - it is for you to figure out if this relationship with your spouse is just that - a relationship

Also, this is incorrect information. USCIS does NOT issue cond GC so YOU can use that time to decide if you want to keep your spouse or return to sender..... it's so THEY can see if the marriage was a fake or legit.

Alhamdulillah - I didn't say that all MENAs converted to Islam for their husbands, conversion is a truly gut-wrenching, soul baring process - and I know of which I speak, because I was raised a Protestant and converted to Catholicism after many years. But what does happen to many women who are with MENA men is that over time they learn about Islam, study it, and then after their own personal discernment decide to convert. I appreciate this...it is the same process that I went through. Women please their husbands in whatever way they see fit...I'm not saying that conversion is one of them...but there is also a sense of pride for MENA men when their wives do convert. I say this because growing up in Los Angeles I had a wonderful group of male MENA friends from allover the MENA region - not too many Moroccans, mostly from UAE, Palestine, Qatar, Jordan, Lebanon - they were amazing and lots of fun.

Overtime, as they began to get married to American girls, their wives would convert - typically if not before, but definitely after the birth of their first child. The sense of pride that they had in their voice was one of awe - "I can't believe she did this for me." It was powerful to witness this. Furthermore, it was very interesting to see how the girl went from hoochiemama, to covering up, to a little more conservative, to hijab, and then finally to hijab and abaya. I thought - wow...what has happened here? As I saw their conversion from a HPOA (hot piece of ###, and not afraid to show it!) to a very traditional muslim woman, I was shocked to say the least...but I could appreciate that if you were going to have children, you wouldn't want mommy to look like a ####### (which was common in LA) you would want to be respectable.

Now, onto the conditional greencard...I'm not saying that you're going to return to sender your spouse...but it is during those first two years that you all establish a relationship that involves living in the same home, sharing your lives, comingling your funds...doing what any traditional couple who is just married would do. USCIS wants to see how well you have established that relationship - which would define you as fake or legitimate. And furthermore, if your husband or wife turns out to not be what you expected, one can divorce and apply for a waiver of conditions - it happens all the time...but what does USCIS want to see - the validity of the relationship!

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

I get what Alhamdulillah is saying about the woman converting and I understand what you are saying... and Alhamdulillah will correct me if Im wrong but basically we know that women should not be converting to any religion for a man or anyone... its between her and whomever or whatever she believes in and no one can get or should not get in the middle of ones religion. But yes, Im sure there are women who do marry MENA men and convert to make their men happy, sure that does happen... and if the guy is wise enough he wouldnt have his wife convert or make her convert under a circumstance to glorify himself.

But I do agree that it is good to see women regardless of what their beliefs are... muslim, jewish or christian to dress modest and pleasing to the LORD and their husband and not dress hoochified! It should be to the LORD first then out of respect to herself and then for respect to her husband.

-Tam

[Jenn! 918]

Overtime, as they began to get married to American girls, their wives would convert - typically if not before, but definitely after the birth of their first child. The sense of pride that they had in their voice was one of awe - "I can't believe she did this for me." It was powerful to witness this. Furthermore, it was very interesting to see how the girl went from hoochiemama, to covering up, to a little more conservative, to hijab, and then finally to hijab and abaya. I thought - wow...what has happened here? As I saw their conversion from a HPOA (hot piece of ###, and not afraid to show it!) to a very traditional muslim woman, I was shocked to say the least...but I could appreciate that if you were going to have children, you wouldn't want mommy to look like a ####### (which was common in LA) you would want to be respectable.

But that's the thing - why should that be a reason to be proud? I would think just the opposite. Why would a man who is a true "believer" wish for his wife to be a believer for *his* benefit?

I'm not saying that what you said isn't true, but I don't get the logic behind it.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I'm a born Muslima who doesn't wear hijab.

I will tell you , for you VIRTUAL WIFE, that NOT ALL ARAB CULTURES are created similar. Some arabs are more known to be soft spoken...some more funny....etc. Moroccans are known as DIPLOMATS. They get along with everyone and have a very nice nature to tourists. Algerians from the years I have been going there are fiercely loving and loyal to their country and as you know have lived engulfed in either civil war, occupation or terrorism. This is NOT TO EXCUSE ANYTHING OR BAD BEHAVIOR but you say again and again that somehow I have either chosen a mysogynist or that there is no ring of truth to anything I say.

I'm quite sure, sis, that I never said that all Arab cultures are the same. In fact, I have said not to stereotype Arabs as a group or as individuals. I know lots of sweet natured Algerians, I know they do exist.

Nor, have I said that there is no truth to what you say. In fact, what I said is that your attitude toward Arabs, which has been rather caustic, is a self-fulfulling prophecy. I can't say that I am surprised that you are having trouble with this man. From your posts in the past, it seems to be what you expect from him as an Arab. That has been your message in every thread anyone started on this board about relationship problems.

I want to make it clear that I am not saying that you deserve to be treated this way, but I don't believe it's a coincidence that you are being treated badly.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Overtime, as they began to get married to American girls, their wives would convert - typically if not before, but definitely after the birth of their first child. The sense of pride that they had in their voice was one of awe - "I can't believe she did this for me." It was powerful to witness this. Furthermore, it was very interesting to see how the girl went from hoochiemama, to covering up, to a little more conservative, to hijab, and then finally to hijab and abaya. I thought - wow...what has happened here? As I saw their conversion from a HPOA (hot piece of ###, and not afraid to show it!) to a very traditional muslim woman, I was shocked to say the least...but I could appreciate that if you were going to have children, you wouldn't want mommy to look like a ####### (which was common in LA) you would want to be respectable.

Decent Muslim men don't marry hoochimamas.

Edited July 17, 2008 by Virtual wife

[SaadBell 0]

He broke your lap top, oh sweetie, you poor thing, what kind of person is this? He needs some counseling that is for sure, professional counseling, someone that has an education in marriage counseling, you can always chose a male, if that is what he wants. Very sad that a lot of men don’t respect women, and treat them like second class citizens. Breaking your laptop would have put me over the top that is like my lifeline and I would have been very upset. He should be a freaking man and learn to work and care for his pregnant wife, instead of chatting online to women. I understand the upbringing, but don’t excuse his behavior, for some reason I thought Arab men were a lot like Hispanic men, but I can see that is not the case. Some of the Hispanic men are losers, but the ones in my family would never dream of sending their pregnant wife to work while they lay around the home. That is sick; they would never take money from women or anything from a woman, which is my culture. Just buying your own plane tickets would make my Grandfather roll over in his grave. I since learned that lesson well. My Grandfather would have cut off his arm or sold his kidney than have my Grandmother work and struggle while he sat at home. Does he have any pride in being a man? You deserve so much better, but you did marry him and now you need some support. When my Grandfather came to this country he sure didn’t have any woman support him, he had to struggle by himself, and he learned to eat the foods and the language. When I would complain, he would always tell me to stop; he came from stark poverty and violence and was always grateful for anything he got. He would get up at the crack of dawn and work hard to provide for his family. I am second generation here in America so my uncles and aunts were born in a different country, culture and language. I know my uncles; every one of them always took care of their wife, PERIOD. They would rather cut their heart out than let their women work and earn money while they sat around. Maybe the culture is different, not sure, but this is not acceptable, I am angry, because I wish I could take the pain from you and give your husband a lesson on being a real man. Comparing you to women in Algeria, please, you think they would work while their husband sat on his butt, I doubt that, but like I said maybe that is the culture. Hang in there and start to put yourself first with your children, I am here if you need to vent, and I truly understand being in a bad situation. You are a wonderful women and deserve to be treated like the queen you are. First try getting him some help, since you are married with a baby on the way, I understand in trying to keep the marriage. Take it one step at a time, but you go and start some counseling even if he dosn't want to, you go for yourself.

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

I'm a born Muslima who doesn't wear hijab.

Nor, have I said that there is no truth to what you say. In fact, what I said is that your attitude toward Arabs, which has been rather caustic, is a self-fulfulling prophecy. I can't say that I am surprised that you are having trouble with this man. From your posts in the past, it seems to be what you expect from him as an Arab. That has been your message in every thread anyone started on this board about relationship problems.

I want to make it clear that I am not saying that you deserve to be treated this way, but I don't believe it's a coincidence that you are being treated badly.

Thanks for posting this VW and i really agree with you on that...

Wahrania, I really hate to say it but I have to bcz I believe it to be true as well... I do feel like you expected this behaviour from him based on what I have read from previous posts by you. And dear, what I just read just now about him being violent and breaking your laptop is abuse 100% and totally unacceptable! Im praying for you dear

[chaishai 1]

Who converts their religion for another person? If that were true it wouldn't be anything more than an act to show for the other person.

I cant even tell you how many people I know/have witnessed who OBVIOUSLY went through the motions converting to judaism to marry their israeli husband and yes I will say husband because I havent seen it in the reverse. Maybe that has to do with the fact that the lineage in judaism is through the mother and for the children to be jewish the mother has to be jewish and most israeli men wont marry non jewish women. But they LOVE non jewish women (to start with)... Shiksappeal lol.....

I find it hard to believe that this only happens in judaism though. Lots of people will do anything to please their SOs...

I gotta tell ya, I did alot of moroccan style cooking, etc in the beginning to impress my husband. Then I got alot more self esteem and realized he loved me for me, the inside me, and now I do things out of love vs. just to impress.

[Nasturtium 500]

Who converts their religion for another person? If that were true it wouldn't be anything more than an act to show for the other person.

I cant even tell you how many people I know/have witnessed who OBVIOUSLY went through the motions converting to judaism to marry their israeli husband and yes I will say husband because I havent seen it in the reverse. Maybe that has to do with the fact that the lineage in judaism is through the mother and for the children to be jewish the mother has to be jewish and most israeli men wont marry non jewish women. But they LOVE non jewish women (to start with)... Shiksappeal lol.....

I find it hard to believe that this only happens in judaism though. Lots of people will do anything to please their SOs...

I gotta tell ya, I did alot of moroccan style cooking, etc in the beginning to impress my husband. Then I got alot more self esteem and realized he loved me for me, the inside me, and now I do things out of love vs. just to impress.

It's not just for Judaism I've met quite a few "muslimas" who have converted, admittedly, without even knowing what they were converting to in the first place. Later on they usually either decide to get more religious or become areligious, or sometimes go back to where they came from-- but often, as the couple ages, if they stay together they tend to get more religious or at least try. This is my purely anecdotal experience. I belonged to 2 different women-only Muslimah boards and many were saying this is what they had done-- but of course since they were there, they were very much focused on learning the religion... 2, 3, or more years after the marriage. Many I had heard from did it at the nikah and then didn't think about it after that point for a while. So yes, the original conversion was just paper and just purely for him... but... the "actual" conversion in the sense of knowing what in the heck you were doing came later. I'm sure you've seen similar. I've seen similar things for Catholics, but I haven't seen much of the same for Protestants... maybe because they tend to be more open for marriage? Then again, I am sure it's about the same percentage across the board. This is, IMO, a personality issue for the two involved, not a religious issue. I think you'd have to be the kind of person who would do this kind of thing in the first place, whereas many others will not misrepresent themselves for whatever reason. I think it's the same kind of personality Alhamdulillah mentioned as the woman who "looses herself" in her marriage.

As an aside, how easy is it for these women to convert to Judaism? Judaism usually can be more work to convert into from being an outsider unless you can maybe prove some kind of Jewish ethnicity... or is that only Orthodoxy?

[jpaula 20]

I must chime in here if only to say that I know many a sweet natured Algerian man, my husband first among them.

I do not discount the violence this generation witnessed nor what it means to grow up in poverty and severe insecurity. But, Wharania, please do not use this as an excuse to let someone treat you badly. Cultural critique aside, in the end a marriage is between two individuals and you must expect him to show you the respect and support that a true marriage requires. I wish you strength and health. Please take care of yourself.

[chaishai 1]

As an aside, how easy is it for these women to convert to Judaism? Judaism usually can be more work to convert into from being an outsider unless you can maybe prove some kind of Jewish ethnicity... or is that only Orthodoxy?

It ranges from extremely easy to extremely hard. It is always possible, although in orthodoxy they make it VERY difficult for you and the the tradition is to turn you away three times. Then of course there are other rabbis that can be bribed or dont take it seriously and its easy.