How is your spouse adjusting

[doodlebugg 10]

I think of you MENA gals alot and my respect for you runs deep...you are truly unique in that many of you, not all, have converted to Islam, you wear hijab and abayas, and you leave behind so much of yourself for your husband.

I hear what you're saying but I have to say that some of us who did convert and do wear hijab do not and did not do it for our husbands. For a lot of us meeting our husbands was the first introduction to Islam that we have had which then led us to look more deeply into it. I wear hijab for God, never for him.

That being said, I know that many women do lose their identity when they get married. I did it in my first marriage and it took me almost 10 years to gain it back. This time around is so different and although my first marriage was hell on earth I wouldn't trade the lessons that I learned for anything.

Edited July 16, 2008 by bridget

[caybee 21]

Wahrania, I feel for you sister. This adjustment period for you all must be hell on earth - and especially to be pregnant trying to get through this has to suck big time. Note to all...having been through this whole immigration process from I-129 to citizenship, my advice is to hold off on the pregnancies if you can. I say this knowing that many of you have truly, truly beautiful MENA babies - they are adorable and I love seeing their pics! But, I will also say, it is in those first few years that you really need that time to get to know each other. I'll never forget when my DH came from Argentina, it was a treat just to go to a movie together, just hang out alone. We're almost to that point that we'll want to start a family, but it has been a Godsend to me to have a husband that says to everyone, "We are taking this time to get to know each other." It has worked in our favor as now we have a good comprehension of one another.

I'm not sure if your husband now has his LPR or if it is conditional, but there is a reason why immigration gives you that Conditional Greencard - it is for you to figure out if this relationship with your spouse is just that - a relationship. It sounds to me like your husband is not in this relationship...you are flying solo and by the seat of your pants...not good. You seem to have so much stress in your life, and that is one thing I have found for almost all that immigrate - they can't believe the stress that Americans live with everyday. For those of us that have really gotten to know our spouse's homeland, we normally love it because there is typically a more stress-free lifestyle. For those spouses who live in warzones that might not be the case...but overall, think about the time you spent in their country and how there was time for socializing, tea times, siestas (or something like that) - I bet you loved it. It is a shock to their system to see how things work here, and they are not used to the hustle and bustle pace that we maintain.

You know, Sarahaziz had an excellent point when she said when you take on your husband's culture and religion you can forget who you are...forgive me Sara if I didn't phrase that exactly word for word. But, here it is - you have got to remember who the hell you were before you ever entered into this process. There were times when I was going through rough patches with my DH - I would almost forget who I was...I bucked up and said to myself, first and foremost, I'm an American woman - I honest to God don't have to take this S#!T. I would let myself have a 1 hour pity party and then I would tell him how I felt, and always reminded him that if he didn't want to stay married to me that the big "D" was always an option. We've made it through and we're still in this together - but it isn't without some truly hard times.

I think of you MENA gals alot and my respect for you runs deep...you are truly unique in that many of you, not all, have converted to Islam, you wear hijab and abayas, and you leave behind so much of yourself for your husband. That is tremendously difficult even when it is done out of love. But I will say this, somewhere deep inside of you, you have to find that place where you remember who you were before...it reminds me of the show Designing Women, where Charlene had a great girlfriend from her childhood, Mavis, who was being abused by her husband. Charlene said, "Mavis we were the Rowdy Girls - how could you forget?" Which is what I say to you...don't forget that somewhere deep inside of you a Rowdy Girl lives within - don't be afraid to haul her A$$ back out to make an appearance just to give your husband a taste of who you really are. And, if that man can't handle it, show him where the door is.

You make a lot of important points. I think very few women here, if any, would say they converted to Islam for their husbands, but it is very true that it is easy to get so wrapped up in a partner's wants and needs and sometimes even culture that a person can lose their own identity.

[doodlebugg 10]

Wahrania I have to say that what you are writing scares me. To me, it sounds as though he is getting violent and I have to wonder what else is going on that you are not writing........and I don't need to hear it but just think about it and be honest with yourself. You have children other than the baby inside you to think about so I would hate for them to be even the least bit afraid of him in their own home. don't make excuses for the man. There are plenty of men and women from war torn nations who do not act with violence (i.e. smashing laptops)

Don't let him get away with things just because you feel bad for his upbringing. Things that you have written here are unacceptable for children to witness so I hope to God that they have not been around when this has happened. Sounds like typical abusive stage/honeymoon stage behavior to me and I would start looking into ways to get him out if I were you but only you can be 100% honest with how this is affecting your children. In times like this sometimes the only way we can be 100% honest is to forget about how it affects us and focus on the children and what is best for them.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

First off to say that a marriage won’t last is way off, there are so many factors and just because the man is homesick is not a sign of divorce. Sometimes the happiest couples are the ones that end in divorce, not always, but I am sure the BTK killer’s wife had no clue that she was married to a serial killer. So never think you have all the answers, your own marriage could be in trouble and you have no clue. Marriage is hard enough without someone telling you that your marriage is not going to make it. No one knows, unless you are a wonderful psychic. If you are indeed a psychic, should I just throw in the towel on my life? Just wondering, cause right now it looks very dark in here.

Well I have read many many of her posts and I know the type of woman she is. And by the last post in this thread my prediction is correct. I don't wish this on her, I wish she would change and maybe he marriage could work.

So true, we are the evil American women, and he is the man. You should respect him and lie on the ground while he walks all over you!

Did I get that right Gaby&Talbert?

You are really confusing Gaby. First let me inform you that I come here to talk to spouses of MENA people. I am really not sure why you come here. Second, I have NOT been acting like the stereotypical "American ######" as you call all of us. I have been actually extremely compassionate and forgiving of him . I am trying to help him go to school. I am getting the food he likes. I have put him first in every single way. His mom is aware of this. So is everyone else. We have our good days. We have bad days. We have amazing days. Its been hard the last few weeks, I wont lie. He is having a hard time adjusting. I am really hurt. But I love him more than I care that I am right or justified. We love each other. But its been real tough. I think you need to get the stereotypical view of the women on here out of your head. To stalk us on our boards and hang out around here just seems downright weird..Why the interest in our lives when your spouse is from Mexico and you hate American women and everything we stand for?

No that is not what I am saying. She should have walked away from the relationship before he ever came here but no she complained about everything and still brought him here.

If someone is going to b i t c h about everything then marry someone who will put up with it and will kiss her a s s all the time. You can't pretend to be someone you are not. She needed to lay it on the line to her husband what she expected and if not then walk away. She should have seen exactly what he was like back in his home and accept him for that and not expect him to change.

[Alhamdulillah 0]

I think of you MENA gals alot and my respect for you runs deep...you are truly unique in that many of you, not all, have converted to Islam, you wear hijab and abayas, and you leave behind so much of yourself for your husband.

Who converts their religion for another person? If that were true it wouldn't be anything more than an act to show for the other person. I have only met one person in my life who converted their religion to marry someone.... she was Budhist and he was catholic and the priest wouldn't marry them if she didn't convert (on paper even lol) and go to classes before the wedding. She still lights incense in front of the lil Budha in her shop (and so does her catholic hubby and he even refills the food and tea )

I mean no offense to you personally but I get so tired of everyone assuming when a woman converts to Islam that it MUST be because she's trying to please her husband (or to find one)

there is a reason why immigration gives you that Conditional Greencard - it is for you to figure out if this relationship with your spouse is just that - a relationship

Also, this is incorrect information. USCIS does NOT issue cond GC so YOU can use that time to decide if you want to keep your spouse or return to sender..... it's so THEY can see if the marriage was a fake or legit.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Wahrania I have to say that what you are writing scares me. To me, it sounds as though he is getting violent and I have to wonder what else is going on that you are not writing........and I don't need to hear it but just think about it and be honest with yourself. You have children other than the baby inside you to think about so I would hate for them to be even the least bit afraid of him in their own home. don't make excuses for the man. There are plenty of men and women from war torn nations who do not act with violence (i.e. smashing laptops)

Don't let him get away with things just because you feel bad for his upbringing. Things that you have written here are unacceptable for children to witness so I hope to God that they have not been around when this has happened. Sounds like typical abusive stage/honeymoon stage behavior to me and I would start looking into ways to get him out if I were you but only you can be 100% honest with how this is affecting your children. In times like this sometimes the only way we can be 100% honest is to forget about how it affects us and focus on the children and what is best for them.

Ive been broken hearted over it and really wanted to leave. He s got to come clean about it. I am just really struggling as to whether to leave the relationship based on one incident ( thank god my kids were not HOME) Or whether to fight through things and keep going. Its been a really rough road for me Bridget, especially emotionally. I dont know if one incident like him breaking something is enough to divorce him. I am in alot of hurt and shock and pain over all of it

[doodlebugg 10]

Wahrania I have to say that what you are writing scares me. To me, it sounds as though he is getting violent and I have to wonder what else is going on that you are not writing........and I don't need to hear it but just think about it and be honest with yourself. You have children other than the baby inside you to think about so I would hate for them to be even the least bit afraid of him in their own home. don't make excuses for the man. There are plenty of men and women from war torn nations who do not act with violence (i.e. smashing laptops)

Don't let him get away with things just because you feel bad for his upbringing. Things that you have written here are unacceptable for children to witness so I hope to God that they have not been around when this has happened. Sounds like typical abusive stage/honeymoon stage behavior to me and I would start looking into ways to get him out if I were you but only you can be 100% honest with how this is affecting your children. In times like this sometimes the only way we can be 100% honest is to forget about how it affects us and focus on the children and what is best for them.

Ive been broken hearted over it and really wanted to leave. He s got to come clean about it. I am just really struggling as to whether to leave the relationship based on one incident ( thank god my kids were not HOME) Or whether to fight through things and keep going. Its been a really rough road for me Bridget, especially emotionally. I dont know if one incident like him breaking something is enough to divorce him. I am in alot of hurt and shock and pain over all of it

Well just keep your eyes and ears open to how your kids behave around him, you know? I'm sure you know....you're a mom and you will know when something seems not right. Of course they'd be hesitant with him the first few weeks or so but eventually they should now be feeling comfortable with him. If that's not the case, it might be nothing other than shyness but it *might* be something. Talk to them often and just get a handle on how they feel about him, you know? I really feel for you and cannot even imagine going through this stuff while pregnant....even without being pregnant I can't imagine having my husband compare me to women back home or any of that nonsense that he's spewing off!!!! This is like your honeymoon period where you both should be fighting to keep your hands off of each other, you know? I really feel for you and I'll continue to make dua that this gets better somehow.

[Nutty 2]

Wahrania,

I am sorry for your situation really. I know that adjustment is hard. However the situation you explained below is not adjustment issues. It is plain selfish behavior. Your husband prides himself on being a "good and proper muslim" and yet he is chatting with women online while his pregnant wife suffers and WORKS. This is a hypocrisy of character and no amount of cultural background can excuse it.

Nutty

To bring a conclusion to the story, his mom has actually tried very hard to be supportive of me.

My husband has done some things over the last week that have floored me. First he took my laptop which was a present from my brother and smashed it into pieces and stepped on it. I had found him chatting with other women and I was devastated ( I had installed Spector PRO and could screenshot everything he did when I was at work) I told him that this wasnt a life for me to be working and for him to be able to work and doing nothing to fix his situation. He became enraged and smashed the computer in the kitchen , stepping on it. Afterwards he refused to speak to me the rest of the day and into the evening. I did not react. I just swept up the computer and put it into a bag and threw it away. Later that evening he told me that he loved me and started talking about a married Canadian woman he had been talking to in MSN ( apparently he thought I saw THAT particular im exchange as well) Apparently he thought I caught him doing more than he did but it really didnt matter. I ended up with a shattered laptop and no way to work from home but remember since he has been here he has barely let me on the computer ( he would sit for hours either chatting, surfing etc. or watching Algerian television or using skype) Needless to say, I will not be buying another laptop anytime soon. I dont care too much if I have the net at home anyway but its killing me. Hes apologised about a thousand time but I told him I am not going to tell my family because my brother bought me that as a present and he would be devastated. My family doesnt do all this drama and isnt loud spoken etc.

I will tell you , for you VIRTUAL WIFE, that NOT ALL ARAB CULTURES are created similar. Some arabs are more known to be soft spoken...some more funny....etc. Moroccans are known as DIPLOMATS. They get along with everyone and have a very nice nature to tourists. Algerians from the years I have been going there are fiercely loving and loyal to their country and as you know have lived engulfed in either civil war, occupation or terrorism. This is NOT TO EXCUSE ANYTHING OR BAD BEHAVIOR but you say again and again that somehow I have either chosen a mysogynist or that there is no ring of truth to anything I say. The temperament of many Algerians can be at time a bit more abrupt and forthright than many cultures because frankly they are a republic not a kingdom and everyone their has grown up in an environment of collectivism and jihad. Anytime a culture loses 1,000,000 to civil war and terrorism, then you have a generation that grew up watching people shot in the street and their throats cut ( my husband not only witness all of this from about 12 on he also served in the army during the height of terrorism ( late 90s) I am not defending him or excusing him but he has had an immense adjustment to EVERYTHING... even running water and daily showers and not going to be hungry. I really have been wanting to thrown in the towel with him. He literally went for 2 weeks without kissing me or holding me and holing himself up in his bed. After he broke the computer it was like he broke into tears. He wouldnt stop kissing me or holding me or talking to me and he has been acting alot different over the last few days. He kept saying I am so sorry to me. What amazed me is how understanding my family has been about him adjusting. My mom would listen to me tell her the things he was doing and she said just let him be and keep going and I did.. You predict that I will have failure in my relationship as if somehow I am doing something to earn it. On the contrary, I have found out things about myself over this last 2 months that I never could have imagined. My husband literally is terrified to be here. Terrified of failure. Terrified of his language barrier. He is just now adjusting to the food. I am in alot of pain emotionally because I want him to be happy. He has so many wonderful qualities. We do not have a huge age disparity. We are having a baby together. There are many things going for us if we can just overcome his adjusting to this place. I would be lying to tell you that this has been a cakewalk. Its been up.... down ... and everything in between. His particular background was a little bit more extreme than many others. His father was from the SAHARA and was an IBADI muslim and severely mistreated his more moderate big city Mother. Its about alot more than just being arab. There are so many sub cultures within the catagory arab that culturally you can step on toes and mess up with out even trying too hard.

All I know is that I am doing the best I can every single day, working, planning for the baby and I have school next week and I just have alot on me. I think its come down to either he bucks up and faces things and grows up or goes home. His mom wants him to adapt and stay and when he has wanted to leave , I think he s sad because she wants him to buck up, my mom wants him to buck up and so do I. All I know is I cant do much more than I am doing.. I love him very much. Hes done some things that have really pissed me off and hurt me but I am trying to hang in there

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Wahrania I have to say that what you are writing scares me. To me, it sounds as though he is getting violent and I have to wonder what else is going on that you are not writing........and I don't need to hear it but just think about it and be honest with yourself. You have children other than the baby inside you to think about so I would hate for them to be even the least bit afraid of him in their own home. don't make excuses for the man. There are plenty of men and women from war torn nations who do not act with violence (i.e. smashing laptops)

Don't let him get away with things just because you feel bad for his upbringing. Things that you have written here are unacceptable for children to witness so I hope to God that they have not been around when this has happened. Sounds like typical abusive stage/honeymoon stage behavior to me and I would start looking into ways to get him out if I were you but only you can be 100% honest with how this is affecting your children. In times like this sometimes the only way we can be 100% honest is to forget about how it affects us and focus on the children and what is best for them.

Ive been broken hearted over it and really wanted to leave. He s got to come clean about it. I am just really struggling as to whether to leave the relationship based on one incident ( thank god my kids were not HOME) Or whether to fight through things and keep going. Its been a really rough road for me Bridget, especially emotionally. I dont know if one incident like him breaking something is enough to divorce him. I am in alot of hurt and shock and pain over all of it

Well just keep your eyes and ears open to how your kids behave around him, you know? I'm sure you know....you're a mom and you will know when something seems not right. Of course they'd be hesitant with him the first few weeks or so but eventually they should now be feeling comfortable with him. If that's not the case, it might be nothing other than shyness but it *might* be something. Talk to them often and just get a handle on how they feel about him, you know? I really feel for you and cannot even imagine going through this stuff while pregnant....even without being pregnant I can't imagine having my husband compare me to women back home or any of that nonsense that he's spewing off!!!! This is like your honeymoon period where you both should be fighting to keep your hands off of each other, you know? I really feel for you and I'll continue to make dua that this gets better somehow.

The kids seem to love him and he them. Its almost as if I am up against impossible comparisons to people back home like cooking, looks etc. He has said some horrific things to me over the last 2 weeks. I am almost 32 weeks pregnant so you know that I am already just feeling so overwhelmed.I was at the point I was ready to whip out and buy his ticket back home and just wash my hands of everything. Its been too much. His mom actually feels for me. I think they all know what I am going through including my family.

The reality is that I love him with no conditions and I am trying to be forgiving and loving and hang in there. Its been tough thats for sure. I am sure I have opened my self up to an onslaught of criticism but thats why I come here because you guys understand stuff and many on the outside wouldnt

[caybee 21]

Wahrania I have to say that what you are writing scares me. To me, it sounds as though he is getting violent and I have to wonder what else is going on that you are not writing........and I don't need to hear it but just think about it and be honest with yourself. You have children other than the baby inside you to think about so I would hate for them to be even the least bit afraid of him in their own home. don't make excuses for the man. There are plenty of men and women from war torn nations who do not act with violence (i.e. smashing laptops)

Don't let him get away with things just because you feel bad for his upbringing. Things that you have written here are unacceptable for children to witness so I hope to God that they have not been around when this has happened. Sounds like typical abusive stage/honeymoon stage behavior to me and I would start looking into ways to get him out if I were you but only you can be 100% honest with how this is affecting your children. In times like this sometimes the only way we can be 100% honest is to forget about how it affects us and focus on the children and what is best for them.

Ive been broken hearted over it and really wanted to leave. He s got to come clean about it. I am just really struggling as to whether to leave the relationship based on one incident ( thank god my kids were not HOME) Or whether to fight through things and keep going. Its been a really rough road for me Bridget, especially emotionally. I dont know if one incident like him breaking something is enough to divorce him. I am in alot of hurt and shock and pain over all of it

But has it really been only one incident? In your posts you have described several incidents and behaviors that struck me as borderline abusive at best. You've only just mentioned the laptop incident in the last 15 minutes. There's a line between violence toward objects and toward people, but sometimes it doesn't take much to cross that line. And kids should not be placed in a position where they cannot feel safe in their own home, when they never know when something will be smashed or worse. That's a frightening enough scenario for an adult, as you know well enough, let alone for a child. Your story sounds sooooo familiar, except for the kids part. Please take Bridget's words to heart. There are some personality differences and points of view here in MENA, but I don't think anyone here wants to see one of our own in this sort of situation again.

[morocco4ever 63]

Wahrania I may not know much about Algerian men, but the Arab men I do know have been raised to treat their wife with love and respect, and this goes double when she is pregnant. You KNOW in your heart you deserve to be treated better, and you KNOW in your heart that HE knows better. Why do you try so hard to please him when he is not respecting you? Sister, what you would tell us if this was one of our stories? Think about it.

Oh and by the way, I think Gaby&Talbert still has a thing for his ex. Don't tell him I said so.

[doodlebugg 10]

It might be time to take him to an Imam and get some counseling. Maybe he's the type that would respect a man in somewhat of an authoritative position, you know? Does he got to a mosque at all?

[LaL 418]

Wahrania,

I am sorry for your situation really. I know that adjustment is hard. However the situation you explained below is not adjustment issues. It is plain selfish behavior. Your husband prides himself on being a "good and proper muslim" and yet he is chatting with women online while his pregnant wife suffers and WORKS. This is a hypocrisy of character and no amount of cultural background can excuse it.

Nutty

I couldn't agree more and bears repeating. This is NOT something that can be summed up as solely adjustment issues.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Wahrania I have to say that what you are writing scares me. To me, it sounds as though he is getting violent and I have to wonder what else is going on that you are not writing........and I don't need to hear it but just think about it and be honest with yourself. You have children other than the baby inside you to think about so I would hate for them to be even the least bit afraid of him in their own home. don't make excuses for the man. There are plenty of men and women from war torn nations who do not act with violence (i.e. smashing laptops)

Don't let him get away with things just because you feel bad for his upbringing. Things that you have written here are unacceptable for children to witness so I hope to God that they have not been around when this has happened. Sounds like typical abusive stage/honeymoon stage behavior to me and I would start looking into ways to get him out if I were you but only you can be 100% honest with how this is affecting your children. In times like this sometimes the only way we can be 100% honest is to forget about how it affects us and focus on the children and what is best for them.

Ive been broken hearted over it and really wanted to leave. He s got to come clean about it. I am just really struggling as to whether to leave the relationship based on one incident ( thank god my kids were not HOME) Or whether to fight through things and keep going. Its been a really rough road for me Bridget, especially emotionally. I dont know if one incident like him breaking something is enough to divorce him. I am in alot of hurt and shock and pain over all of it

But has it really been only one incident? In your posts you have described several incidents and behaviors that struck me as borderline abusive at best. You've only just mentioned the laptop incident in the last 15 minutes. There's a line between violence toward objects and toward people, but sometimes it doesn't take much to cross that line. And kids should not be placed in a position where they cannot feel safe in their own home, when they never know when something will be smashed or worse. That's a frightening enough scenario for an adult, as you know well enough, let alone for a child. Your story sounds sooooo familiar, except for the kids part. Please take Bridget's words to heart. There are some personality differences and points of view here in MENA, but I don't think anyone here wants to see one of our own in this sort of situation again.

I have to go home now. I will tell you that when I told my family that I had a slight amount of problems ( my aunt) not even mentioning the laptop, she brought up giving the baby up for adoption ( NO I AM NOT KIDDING) Needless to say I dont have a safe or open place to get help or advice when scared hurt or confused.... I am really hurting .. Anyway I have to go home

[Nutty 2]

Adjustment issues are: depression, moodiness, arguementative, comparing cultures and the differences between here and there, finding faults with USA and putting their own country/people on an alter. However, chatting with women online does not fall into the catagorey of "adjustment disorder." Nor does becoming violent when caught doing it.

Loving him "without conditions" is not a wise position to take. It implies you are willing to accept intolerable behavior from him because of love. Would you allow another person to mistreat you in such a way? If no, then why would you accept it from the man who is supposed to be your best friend and cherish you.

It's true my husband and I have had our difficulties. Minor I admit (and sometimes I see them as bigger issues than they are). But I would never tolerate my husband online with women. Or tolerate the breaking of a laptop because you EXPOSED his bad conduct.

Be sure: A true, pious good muslim is faithful to his wife in every way. Not online flirting while his pregnant wife struggles.

The only reason I am being hard with my opinion is that I don't want you to become a doormat and accept inexcusable behavior "because of love." Too many woman allow themselves to be mistreated because they "love unconditionally."

The kids seem to love him and he them. Its almost as if I am up against impossible comparisons to people back home like cooking, looks etc. He has said some horrific things to me over the last 2 weeks. I am almost 32 weeks pregnant so you know that I am already just feeling so overwhelmed.I was at the point I was ready to whip out and buy his ticket back home and just wash my hands of everything. Its been too much. His mom actually feels for me. I think they all know what I am going through including my family.

The reality is that I love him with no conditions and I am trying to be forgiving and loving and hang in there. Its been tough thats for sure. I am sure I have opened my self up to an onslaught of criticism but thats why I come here because you guys understand stuff and many on the outside wouldnt

Edited July 16, 2008 by Nutty