Friend Gets Goodbye Email from Fiance

[Satellite 1]

I was talking to a friend this morning and he told me that one of our friends had gotten an email from his fiance telling him she wished not to leave Russia and hopes he can find his happiness with another Russian girl....she was to have her interview in Moscow in about two weeks.

Yeah, we haven't seen him on this forum for a while and it was pretty abrubt. There are a million things that could've happened and who knows what really did.

Hmmm, I wonder if it's MOX.

Are you sure it is MOX?

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showuser=38377

His timeline says the interview was scheduled for:

http://www.visajourney.com/timeline/profile.php?id=38377

May 14, 2008

Unless there was a change of date with no update, bruc must be talking about someone else.

[groovlstk 0]

It didn't have anything to do with love and trust. She loves him and trust him but she wasn't so sure about our country and what the future held even the possibility of her fiance eventually being unemployed and not being able to support them. I certainly understand this and you should also because the only real person that knows your future is your employer and you never know when you might get walking papers yourself.

Sorry, but I believe this is hogwash.

Whenever I see one of these relationships go up in smoke - and I've seen many, including my own years ago when I was courting a Ukrainian woman - the guy's first instinct is to ignore reality and pin the blame on anything other than the obvious fact that his girl simply never loved him and never will, and that her motivation for marrying him was not in the best of his interests. Time and again I've watched guys try to squirm out from under the weight of logic and blame controlling parents who don't want her to leave Russia/Ukraine, pessimistic and jealous friends who spread rumors of a horrible life awaiting her in the US, fear of retribution from ex-husbands, etc. The list goes on and on. It's hard to except the reality that his girl is trying to let him down as easily as possible and the alternative of believing her story is a million times better than accepting the fact that she's been playing him for a fool all along.

[akdiver 3]

Whenever I see one of these relationships go up in smoke - and I've seen many, including my own years ago when I was courting a Ukrainian woman - the guy's first instinct is to ignore reality and pin the blame on anything other than the obvious fact that his girl simply never loved him and never will, and that her motivation for marrying him was not in the best of his interests. Time and again I've watched guys try to squirm out from under the weight of logic and blame controlling parents who don't want her to leave Russia/Ukraine, pessimistic and jealous friends who spread rumors of a horrible life awaiting her in the US, fear of retribution from ex-husbands, etc. The list goes on and on. It's hard to except the reality that his girl is trying to let him down as easily as possible and the alternative of believing her story is a million times better than accepting the fact that she's been playing him for a fool all along.

Wow!! Truth on VJ. Whodda thinked it? You get a +1 for the day.

[slim 1,525]

First let me say I made this post as what could be a warning to some of you with something that could be happening to some of you also and to get comments on your thoughts. Thank you for your comments positive and negative and I certainly wish you all the best.

You all "were" a part of this and it doesn't matter that this person should be a member of this forum or any other forum which he is not.

We should be smart enough to learn from other persons problems and solutions to their problems and this has certainly been good information for a lot of guys out there is what we're hearing. It also made me listen and talk to my fiance about it and other guys are doing the same thing.

Exactly why we should all be on VJ. Just because it's not someone we know, it's possible that certain things in someone else's life could be similar to our own. We can learn from others, even if they're only hypothetical.

The day her fiance called her was not a conference call. He asked us to listen in on their conversation to help him decide if she was sincere or not especially the two girls from Russia listening.

We could tell that between the media and her friends that she had gotten scared and worried about the future of she and her two young daughters here. We all agreed we would have felt the same way in the same situation and the two girls from Russia said "she was definitely scared" and understood her actions. We never know what could"really" be happening in the background no matter how solid you think your relationship is.

It didn't have anything to do with love and trust. She loves him and trust him but she wasn't so sure about our country and what the future held even the possibility of her fiance eventually being unemployed and not being able to support them. I certainly understand this and you should also because the only real person that knows your future is your employer and you never know when you might get walking papers yourself. I'm an employer so I can tell you that I know more about what's happening in my company than they do.

Last week a bank here gave four of their people their walking papers because of the economy. One of them told me none of them saw it coming until the morning it happened to them...so you never know. I certainly hope all of you do survive this attack on our economy and not loose your jobs.It's scary out there right now for a lot of us that own businesses.

I do have good news on my part. I got a call from my fiance this morning about 4am, woke me from my sleep to tell me we have an interview in September. It was a long haul for us because our paperwork got lost and we had to refile. We didn't start throwing things, yelling and do all those things to

to vent our frustrations. We both had a little laugh and said oh well, here we go again and kept the patience that it would eventually happen for us and it did.

Like most everyone doing this frustrating process I have learned a lot here and I will leave you with a wealth of information not only learned from you but gained from our own personal experiences.

My company gave walking papers to 1/3 of my department two weeks ago. The economy here is uncertain as it's been in my lifetime, but what normal people do when they face economic uncertainty is they TALK to each other and figure out what they're going to do to make their relationship weather the storm. They don't "call it off" before discussing it with their fiance(e) or S/O, they discuss options and figure something out. They find a solution to money problems so their relationship survives, not call off their relationship so their money problems go away.

The fact that the fiancee threw in the towel without discussion tells me that she's more motivated by the economic impact of marrying an American guy than the quest to find love abroad. That's not necessarily a bad thing because reality is there are some pretty hot MILFs over there that need a "rich" American man to support them and their children. But, once that support starts to fade away (..... unexpected walking papers...) that support is gone and the "love" starts to dissipate real quick.

If your buddy is rich and doesn't care if his fiancee is a gold-digger, then by all means, tell him to go ahead. But, if he's just an average American guy (in debt, waiting for his next paycheck) then you better tell him to start the process over and find a younger one with no kids. Maybe even add "Philippines" to the search for a wife next time. My words aren't meant to be harsh, just meant to call attention to the reality of the situation. Remember, we're all learning from each other here. Wanna learn from me? Talk to your fiancee IN DEPTH about money and her obligations BEFORE she comes here. If she still wants to marry you, she may just like you for who you are, not what you make! (I didn't do this..... my wife's still trying to decide.)

I'm also thankful that my fiance and daughter will have a nice support group here in our community that speaks their language and understands her culture more than I do to help them adjust to their new lifestyles here.

I wish all of you still in the process the best and to keep your chins up, it will eventually happen for you also. I wish all of you that are married a much successful life with your Russian wife.

I hope your fiancee isn't swayed the way your buddy's was. But, since your support group is helpful in convincing fiancees to do the right thing, you should be just fine. Thanks for the successful wishes, and right back at you. It is a challenge! Keep the lines of communication open, and don't throw in the towel before you talk it over with your S/O first.

[Brad and Vika 129]

I don't think it is hogwash to the OPs friend. I believe we in America really underestimate the influence of friend/family opinion on Eastern Europeans. We apply our standards, and don't get the picture sometimes. While I see the same possible relationship issues here that you do, I think they stem from a legitimate fear of leaving a very comfortable situation (in terms of long term relationships and familiar surroundings) and taking a great risk with the happiness of her and her kids. All that doesn't negate the problem we all see though.

[slim 1,525]

I don't think it is hogwash to the OPs friend. I believe we in America really underestimate the influence of friend/family opinion on Eastern Europeans. We apply our standards, and don't get the picture sometimes. While I see the same possible relationship issues here that you do, I think they stem from a legitimate fear of leaving a very comfortable situation (in terms of long term relationships and familiar surroundings) and taking a great risk with the happiness of her and her kids. All that doesn't negate the problem we all see though.

I agree with all of what you're saying but it needs to be remembered that the beneficiary is coming here to live in America. They can bring some of their culture and language and all of that here, but when they get here, they need to remember that life here is life here, not back home.

America is a certain way and in order to make a healthy relationship here, either you need to be pretty well-to-do already (which frees them up to do whatever they want) or they're going to need to fall into an American role pretty quickly. And, they're not bringing their family with them, are they? Sure, they can talk on the phone or e-mail or whatever, but it's not like their mom and dad are going to be paying your mortgage.

If they want to get advice from family and friends, great. But, often times that advice doesn't help you pay your mortgage whereas advice from you (GET A JOB! Don't send money we don't have back home to your mom!) probably is going to help you pay your mortgage.

A paid mortgage seems to make for a happier family.

[Brad and Vika 129]

I don't think it is hogwash to the OPs friend. I believe we in America really underestimate the influence of friend/family opinion on Eastern Europeans. We apply our standards, and don't get the picture sometimes. While I see the same possible relationship issues here that you do, I think they stem from a legitimate fear of leaving a very comfortable situation (in terms of long term relationships and familiar surroundings) and taking a great risk with the happiness of her and her kids. All that doesn't negate the problem we all see though.

I agree with all of what you're saying but it needs to be remembered that the beneficiary is coming here to live in America. They can bring some of their culture and language and all of that here, but when they get here, they need to remember that life here is life here, not back home.

America is a certain way and in order to make a healthy relationship here, either you need to be pretty well-to-do already (which frees them up to do whatever they want) or they're going to need to fall into an American role pretty quickly. And, they're not bringing their family with them, are they? Sure, they can talk on the phone or e-mail or whatever, but it's not like their mom and dad are going to be paying your mortgage.

If they want to get advice from family and friends, great. But, often times that advice doesn't help you pay your mortgage whereas advice from you (GET A JOB! Don't send money we don't have back home to your mom!) probably is going to help you pay your mortgage.

A paid mortgage seems to make for a happier family.

Good points all, as money issues can also be relationship-ending. Also, as was discussd earlier, her choice of friends will be important. If she listens so closely to advice, but falls in with the "spoilers" in the Russian community there will be more trouble ahead. My fiance' told me that there is a saying about how it is "difficult to bring myself up, but much easier to bring you down", meaning the potential for bad advice is high.

Edited July 9, 2008 by Brad and Vika

[groovlstk 0]

I don't think it is hogwash to the OPs friend. I believe we in America really underestimate the influence of friend/family opinion on Eastern Europeans. We apply our standards, and don't get the picture sometimes. While I see the same possible relationship issues here that you do, I think they stem from a legitimate fear of leaving a very comfortable situation (in terms of long term relationships and familiar surroundings) and taking a great risk with the happiness of her and her kids. All that doesn't negate the problem we all see though.

I have no doubt that there is a high level of anxiety for any woman contemplating leaving her family, friends, language, and country behind. But I see so many similarities to other crash n' burns that I suspect there's a lot more going on.

My apologies to Bruc for picking at his posts, I don't mean to attack the messenger, but do any of you married guys see the following quote as strange?

This took several phones call to her from a lot of people discussing this with her.

She sent her fiance a sms and told him to call her and he did. Some of us know the conversation and heard the conversation between them including the two girls from Russia.

Would you have other people contact your fiancee - the woman you love and plan to spend the rest of your life with - and when she finally agrees to talk, have others (who are probably strangers to her) listen in on the conversation?

My wife and I had plenty of disagreements and issues in the days leading up to her interview, some of which gave her second thoughts, but never in a million years would I have considered having a "Russian friend" contact her and act as an intermediary. Not only were our squabbles no one else's damn business, but my wife would have seen such behavior as weak and indecisive, which in turn would have only made matters worse.

I sincerely hope things work out for Bruc's friend and his fiancee and I apologize for being cynical, but sometimes a guy in this situation can use a dose of reality from his friends rather than "support." Sometimes it's really difficult for guys who are also involved in the K1 process to see another pilgrim entwined with the wrong type of woman, as the first instinct is to think, "damn, this could be happening to me too and I just don't realize it yet." So then the most palatable option is to rationalize the obvious problems and blow sunshine up his butt.

[bruc 0]

I would like to thank all of you for your replies to my post concerning this problem with one on my friends. Many have read your replies that are not members of VJ including the Russian girls here in our community. I can assure you that none of them rattled anyones nerves here or made a temper flare.

Everyone has a right to his freedom of speech and thoughts, so thank you for speaking what your thoughts were.

We're getting excellent reports from our friend in Russia. He made the comment to me on the phone this morning that he and his fiance were talking a walk and just happened to meet one of her friends. He said she looked a little startled to see him there and holding hands with her. She had told him that no one knew he was coming except her. I'm sure our next report will be visa approved. I feel certain everything will be fine for them and they'll move on with their lives together and remember this as a learning experience for them.

I've been in VJ since 2004, I've learned a lot of interesting things and I would consider it the most important place to be when doing this process with all the many fine and outstanding members that post here and get much needed support sometimes.

I commend all of you fine people for the extended effort you do here to help the many people that have no where else to turn to for answers and support.

VJ members are a unique family because you all share the same goals together and you do it as a wonderful team of teachers and doctors.

Next week is my fiance's birthday and my grown children and their spouses and myself have decided to go spend it with her. My children want to meet this fine lady in person that will be there new step-mom and especially the daughter that will be there new little sister. They've also had a correspondence with both of them and they think they need to experience some of her country and culture. I definitely agree with them.

It's time for me to leave VJ now and move on with preparations for the arrival of my new family in September. I have many things to do not only in our home but I think maybe emotionally too.

I would like to thank all of you that never knew I was sitting in the background reading and learning from your experiences and frustrations.

I will probably post again one day after my friend and his new family get here and when my new family has arrived and settled in.

I leave the ones of you with step children, childen coming with their moms or now adopted children, that was left to me by my very loving and carry parents on my 12th birthday.It still remains in my home next to my bed so I can read it every night before I go to bed. I will also give this to my new daughter one day.

It's called the Adoption Creed:

"Not flesh of my flesh, nor bone of my bone

But still miraculously my own.

Never forget for a single minute.

You didn't grow under my heart, but in my heart.

God Bless all of you and I wish you the best that life can always give to you.

brue

[visaveteran 1]

I don't think it is hogwash to the OPs friend. I believe we in America really underestimate the influence of friend/family opinion on Eastern Europeans. We apply our standards, and don't get the picture sometimes. While I see the same possible relationship issues here that you do, I think they stem from a legitimate fear of leaving a very comfortable situation (in terms of long term relationships and familiar surroundings) and taking a great risk with the happiness of her and her kids. All that doesn't negate the problem we all see though.

I have no doubt that there is a high level of anxiety for any woman contemplating leaving her family, friends, language, and country behind. But I see so many similarities to other crash n' burns that I suspect there's a lot more going on.

My apologies to Bruc for picking at his posts, I don't mean to attack the messenger, but do any of you married guys see the following quote as strange?

This took several phones call to her from a lot of people discussing this with her.

She sent her fiance a sms and told him to call her and he did. Some of us know the conversation and heard the conversation between them including the two girls from Russia.

Would you have other people contact your fiancee - the woman you love and plan to spend the rest of your life with - and when she finally agrees to talk, have others (who are probably strangers to her) listen in on the conversation?

My wife and I had plenty of disagreements and issues in the days leading up to her interview, some of which gave her second thoughts, but never in a million years would I have considered having a "Russian friend" contact her and act as an intermediary. Not only were our squabbles no one else's damn business, but my wife would have seen such behavior as weak and indecisive, which in turn would have only made matters worse.

I sincerely hope things work out for Bruc's friend and his fiancee and I apologize for being cynical, but sometimes a guy in this situation can use a dose of reality from his friends rather than "support." Sometimes it's really difficult for guys who are also involved in the K1 process to see another pilgrim entwined with the wrong type of woman, as the first instinct is to think, "damn, this could be happening to me too and I just don't realize it yet." So then the most palatable option is to rationalize the obvious problems and blow sunshine up his butt.

I believe you're a good judge of hogwash and respect your "tough love" cautionary posts. Would we encourage a 350 pound man to become a trapeze artist?

Bruc's anonymous friend with the fiancee with the dollar signs in her eyes is probably in the wrong game; and relationship by committee is making a bad scene even worse.

[akdiver 3]

If she does make it over here - I'm predicting :

Chance of divorce prior to AOS filed: 10%

Chance of divorce prior to AOS approved: 20%

Chance of divorce after AOS approved: 40%

Chance of divorce after 10-year PR card approved: 20%

Chance of remaining married 5 years or more: 10%

[mox 298]

Hmmm, I wonder if it's MOX.

It was not mox. I can, however, report that Nadya and I have recently had a mutual parting of ways, but there's nothing sordid or abrupt about it, and we remain fast friends. I've held off on saying anything because Nadya's ex boyfriend/stalker lurks here, and saying anything would have only encouraged him to re-start harassing her. But he's managed to figure it out, so I can at least share with you all that we won't be completing our VJ.

I do want to thank everyone for their support, especially those few of you who I did share the situation with, and who were so incredibly supportive. I made some great friends, and had some good times. Best of luck to everyone here. I'm sure I'll drop in from time-to-time to offer my voluminous wisdom and crass, baseless attacks, so you're probably not rid of me quite yet. Besides...I know this girl in Moscow...

[NYGirl 0]

Hmmm, I wonder if it's MOX.

It was not mox. I can, however, report that Nadya and I have recently had a mutual parting of ways, but there's nothing sordid or abrupt about it, and we remain fast friends. I've held off on saying anything because Nadya's ex boyfriend/stalker lurks here, and saying anything would have only encouraged him to re-start harassing her. But he's managed to figure it out, so I can at least share with you all that we won't be completing our VJ.

I do want to thank everyone for their support, especially those few of you who I did share the situation with, and who were so incredibly supportive. I made some great friends, and had some good times. Best of luck to everyone here. I'm sure I'll drop in from time-to-time to offer my voluminous wisdom and crass, baseless attacks, so you're probably not rid of me quite yet. Besides...I know this girl in Moscow...

How weird is this? Everyone who got their interview postponed broke up?

To me it looks like the couple who does it, especially the SO who should be coming to US has doubts and second thoughts about it and that's why asks for more time and postponed the interview. I think it's a red flag, unless it's because of a medical reason. Just my opinion.

Edit: To me it looks like anyone who dissappears from VJ out of the blue and especially before their SO got here, is self explanatory that things are not working out or the couple has some issues.

Edited July 9, 2008 by NYGirl

[NYGirl 0]

Hmmm, I wonder if it's MOX.

It was not mox. I can, however, report that Nadya and I have recently had a mutual parting of ways, but there's nothing sordid or abrupt about it, and we remain fast friends. I've held off on saying anything because Nadya's ex boyfriend/stalker lurks here, and saying anything would have only encouraged him to re-start harassing her. But he's managed to figure it out, so I can at least share with you all that we won't be completing our VJ.

I do want to thank everyone for their support, especially those few of you who I did share the situation with, and who were so incredibly supportive. I made some great friends, and had some good times. Best of luck to everyone here. I'm sure I'll drop in from time-to-time to offer my voluminous wisdom and crass, baseless attacks, so you're probably not rid of me quite yet. Besides...I know this girl in Moscow...

How weird is this? Everyone who got their interview postponed broke up?

To me it looks like the couple who does it, especially the SO who should be coming to US has doubts and second thoughts about it and that's why asks for more time and postponed the interview. I think it's a red flag, unless it's because of a medical reason. Just my opinion.

Edit: To me it looks like anyone who dissappears from VJ out of the blue and especially before their SO got here, is self explanatory that things are not working out or the couple has some issues. Especially if they were a frequent member.

[akdiver 3]

How weird is this? Everyone who got their interview postponed broke up?

Yeah - shocking. Just shocking.