"How Canada Stole the American Dream"

[SapphireDreams 71]

Just wanted to add in my two cents here and this is not mean to be offensive in any way. I've never really considered myself a passionate Canadian, so this is my perspective. I've known I wanted to live in the U.S. for a long time.

First, I would say that my U.S. friends and my boyfriend have much better social lives than me and my Canadian friends, always have. The U.S. college experience is crazy fun - and I went to Laurier and had fun too... but there is just something different about going to school in the States. Well maybe that is just from our experiences. Even now that we all work full time. My boyfriend's friends who live in the city have amazing social lives. When I'm there we are always going for dinner, finding cool places to go in the city, going to different bars. Living in the NYC vicinity makes that easier. Sure, maybe more expensive to live there, but its a sacrifice for sure.

Also, I live in Toronto (well actually Mississauga, but I work in Toronto and my friends are all in Toronto) and the cost of living is very comparable. Actually, I will most likely get paid more in NYC when I get a new job for the same job and the cost of living will be similar. We will be living in Queens because yes Manhattan is a bit outrageous, but Queens is very very reasonable. I feel fine walking around by myself, we will only be a 20 minute subway ride into the city and we'll most likely be able to buy a condo soon too. Our rent if we were to live in Toronto downtown would be the same as if we lived in Queens. I consider Queens pretty urban too and similar to living as far as like High Park or Yonge and Eglinton, not as nice maybe, but New York is older/dirtier so its a trade off.

I also think I work harder than my boyfriend for sure. He has like 31 days vacation (he's the USC) and I only have 12 so go figure. I'm in way more debt than him from school. We also always joke that he's way smarter than me because he learned so much more in school than I did! Seriously, the stuff he learned in High School, and the SATs! Way harder. Anyways, I digress.

I think at the end of the day, its just impossible to generalize the term "American vs. Canadian" or to say that Canadian have stole the American Dream. Even comparing Toronto vs. Waterloo (I've lived in both, Waterloo just wasn't for me, but Toronto is) is different.

Anyways, the good thing is that we have choices, yes we need money to act on our choices, but its not impossible if we are strategic with our savings and plans than we can make it work.

For us it comes down to priorities. Our priorities are living close to the city. We will never have a large house with a yard and a pool, but we will have other things, like being a 5 minute walk to the subway and a million different restaurants.

[CBR 0]

Who said bashing? I must have missed that part.

[Marilyn. 340]

First of all, no offense, but who are you to come in and think you can settle all these "misconceptions" like we are a bunch of idiots that need a-talking to? I'm not trying to offend you and I read all of what you wrote. You are entitled to your opinion but don't come in and say you are clearing up misconceptions with "facts".

I'm merely pointing out some of the inaccuracies that have been stated in this thread regarding American history. I'm sorry if you don't like that, but I'm not telling you how Canada was formed (and incorrectly too, I might add).

I do not believe any of us took the article in Macleans Magazine 100% seriously. Obviously there is bias in the article based on audience. Please do not treat any one like they are stupid. Most of us said we thought the article was interesting.

Yes, and that very interesting article has been taken far too seriously and factual as well. As I said before, anything written like that (whether American or Canadian) should be taken with a "huge grain of salt."

Also, you are talking about me when I said I went to Canada on a recent vacation and forgot how great it was. Are you forgetting I lived there for 23 years and worked and went to school there full time for years? You are telling me that I don't know what my social life WOULD be like if I lived there, worked there, etc. Isn't that a little bit silly not knowing someones history to make a comment like that?

I still loved canada and had a better social life when I was doing mundane tasks every day! Now that I live in New Jersey, it isn't even safe for me to be out by myself past it getting dark out. How can I have a social life if there is a good chance of me getting mugged at night coming into my house?

That is my experience that I can draw from an article that says Canadians have a better social life. I don't even bother going to bars in New Jersey for fear I might look at someone the wrong way...female or male.

Were you married in Canada or were you single? That can make a big difference? I'd also imagine you spent far more time in Canada when you were younger (i.e. during your college years), so the chances of having a more exciting social life would have been greater and had little to do with the location, but your overall situation.

Even if you only looked at your locale, you should realize that there is a huge difference between someplace like Toronto and most places in New Jersey. That'd be like comparing New York City or Los Angeles and Nanaimo or someplace else that's relatively small. The good news is that since you're in NJ, you're very close to New York. So if you're inclined to do so, it's a short drive to someplace far more lively and entertaining.

take it and use it as you like.

DeadPool, I know you are Canadian and again, I wasn't trying to attack you in any way. I know my post was kind of aggressive and filled with a little bit of tension. I just wanted to point out to you that a lot of us are educated and it's not like we fictionalize stories of Canada's or America's birth, or the fruition of the two nations. We all have our own take on history, especially when it is ours.

First of all, I'm not Canadian. I'm the USC; my wife is Canadian. Second, I'm extremely picky about history. I'd be attacking someone for getting Canadian history wrong too. Having your own take on history isn't really a good idea. There's historical fact and historical fiction. People can believe whatever they want, but that doesn't change what has occurred.

Heheheehe, it bears repeating . . .

"Canadians will understand and Americans will go 'huh'? (i.e won't understand).'

What an interesting collection of reactions to what was posted as an 'interesting' article .

What are we Americans not understanding? There have been quite a few incorrect generalizations made about American history (canadian too btw) and culture here. Some pointed out by deadpool and eric and corinna.

I think a point needs to be made that all these Canada is better than the US sentiments are driving an unnecessary wedge. In general I find all the Canadians here and people I've met while visiting my fiance are wonderful people...well educated, kind, having good values, funny etc... overall people I would like to know. When these comments fly around it honestly pi$$es me off (and my fiance too...he made me add that). I don't see Americans making the same crappy attitude comments about Canada.

Yes, this is the Canada forum, but it's an immigration website. Aren't we Americans welcome here in the Canada section if we're marrying a Canadian? Can't we focus on the good, focus on the positive similarities? Why do we have to constantly endure a negative attitude? Why can't we all just be friends dammit?

I have to agree with this. Maybe the Canadians here don't mean to be antagonistic with some of the comments (just as some Americans don't mean to be with pro-American sayings), but given the multicultural nature of this board, it's bound to rub some people the wrong way. Granted, this is the Canadian Forum and I understand that many Canadians are homesick. However, there's probably a better way to say "nice things" about Canada without bashing the United States in the process.

Both are great countries, so I don't see the need for the competition. My wife dislikes it as well. I'm sure that doesn't mean whole lot (since none of you have met her), but there really isn't a good reason to purposely hurt relations between Americans and Canadians.

no one is bashing the US.. we are just pointing how somethings are different in Canada then in the US.. what is wrong with that??

I notice that when a Canadian talks about Canada we are totally jumped on but when other people talk about their home countries it doesn't get the same response

[Cassie 8]

Who said bashing? I must have missed that part.

not necessarily in this thread, but it has happened in others around VJ, with the predictable posts that include "go home then if you don't like it here', "why did you bother coming here in the first place", "why are you always so negative about the US" etc etc etc.

[thetreble 19]

Just wanted to add in my two cents here and this is not mean to be offensive in any way. I've never really considered myself a passionate Canadian, so this is my perspective. I've known I wanted to live in the U.S. for a long time.

First, I would say that my U.S. friends and my boyfriend have much better social lives than me and my Canadian friends, always have. The U.S. college experience is crazy fun - and I went to Laurier and had fun too... but there is just something different about going to school in the States. Well maybe that is just from our experiences. Even now that we all work full time. My boyfriend's friends who live in the city have amazing social lives. When I'm there we are always going for dinner, finding cool places to go in the city, going to different bars. Living in the NYC vicinity makes that easier. Sure, maybe more expensive to live there, but its a sacrifice for sure.

Also, I live in Toronto (well actually Mississauga, but I work in Toronto and my friends are all in Toronto) and the cost of living is very comparable. Actually, I will most likely get paid more in NYC when I get a new job for the same job and the cost of living will be similar. We will be living in Queens because yes Manhattan is a bit outrageous, but Queens is very very reasonable. I feel fine walking around by myself, we will only be a 20 minute subway ride into the city and we'll most likely be able to buy a condo soon too. Our rent if we were to live in Toronto downtown would be the same as if we lived in Queens. I consider Queens pretty urban too and similar to living as far as like High Park or Yonge and Eglinton, not as nice maybe, but New York is older/dirtier so its a trade off.

I also think I work harder than my boyfriend for sure. He has like 31 days vacation (he's the USC) and I only have 12 so go figure. I'm in way more debt than him from school. We also always joke that he's way smarter than me because he learned so much more in school than I did! Seriously, the stuff he learned in High School, and the SATs! Way harder. Anyways, I digress.

I was born in Kitchener, and most of my friends went to waterloo or laurier, so I feel I can sort of tag along to your post. First of all, you are making broad generalizations from your experience. My husband, his brother in law and my sister in law all have college degrees from different colleges. In my 4th year of university while I was busting my ### in my 4th year seminars and writing 20 page papers on no sleep, my husband was playing beer pong. A full course load in the United States is 4 courses, and in Canada it is 5. In fact, in his 4th year I don't believe my husband wrote ONE paper that he had to actually go to the library to research. He still says today that he only used the library a couple times in 4 years and it wasn't necessary as most of his papers were written from opinion and text books. I had so much work I could hardly breathe. Also, all three of my inlaws took a bunch of bullshit courses when I didn't have the opportunity to do so. Here in the US, most colleges offer a lot of courses that are not english/science/math, etc. based. My sister in law took a class in "rhythmic breathing" and my brother in law took a class in "90s hip hop". Not only was stuff like that not offered to me, I don't think it is offered anywhere in Canada. In comparison to my friends in Canada, some people I have met here are incredibly un-worldy. (maybe I'm meeting the wrong people but the term "jersey girl" sums it up pretty often) People will always know what they want to know, no matter where you are. If there is no desire to go beyond that, your knowledge base can fall pretty flat. As far as your husband being more in debt than you, that has nothing to really do with America VS Canada. I was in debt as I borrowed money for living expenses from the bank. My husband's tuition was more than twice the cost of mine, at a state college no less, but his dad paid for everything. So that more or less has to do with your situation.

As far as you working harder, I have not found that to be the case. Working for a small company that ONLY closed on christmas day and new years day, every other day was a work day for me. I was putting in 45 hours a week, not a lot by most peoples standards but I was only working 35 hours in Canada, for peanuts. My employer only paid 10% of my health benefits, and I only had access to 5 personal days a year. Not so great, you know? My husband works at least 60 hours a week and that cuts into our family time greatly. Some times we hardly see each other. Each situation is different.

As someone who has lived right across the water from NYC for the past year and a half, it really is a great place to live if you can afford to live in it. Often times without living somewhere you don't realize the high costs of things like groceries and taxes.

NY has decently high sales tax, at somewhere between 8-12% I believe. All the people in Jersey that I know that work in Manhattan have to bring their lunches or they end up spending a huge chunk of their paycheques on what I call "Manhattan expenses. Maybe Queens will work out well for you and your husband. I seriously hope it does. But I was like, too, before I moved here. I was very gung-ho and thought I would absolutely love it, getting a job in the city and living a great life. Little did I know that at first, all I could be was a receptionist, living with my father in law even though we have two incomes, and not meeting many people that are down to earth at all. Again, maybe it will be JUST the place for you to live a wonderful life, but I'd be hesitant to say anything to set in stone until you live here.

Edited July 5, 2008 by thetreble

[CBR 0]

Well, I don't have that opinion Cassie. I understand that there are going to be things you miss and stating so isn't what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about people touting their home country either. I love to hear about life in other countries directly from people who grew up there. But when you start making comparisons people are gonna feel offended and I'm sorry to single you out Reba (cuz I know you're a sweetheart) but your post was a comparison on our differences and it was definitely intent on putting the US down and Canada up. I'm not the only one who disagreed with it and it is what it is. Also, I don't spend time in the other regional forums, but I have caught a couple posts with the same attitude and it made me feel the same. I'm not picking on this forum, it's just the only regional forum I read in because my fiance is Canadian.

Back to the topic of this thread which was the article on Canada stealing the American dream (nice title). I actually agree with most of it. Americans in general are crazy with their wanting to one up their neighbors...bigger car, bigger house, bigger boat, better job etc... I wish we would get back to spending time with family, putting children first (referencing our crappy maternity leave here), having more time off etc... There's a good part of the article that states how impossible it is to compare the two countries since the US within itself is hard to compare to itself. Salaries, city size, cultures etc... I don't agree that drinking more is a positive. I don't know about Canadians having better social lives. What I've experienced is that it costs a lot more to do anything there (where I visited compared to where i live) and there's not much to do. There is a lot more drug abuse and teen pregnancies there (where I visited compared to where I live) and I would attribute that to boredom and lack of parental guidance into activities (which aren't available in canada like they are where I live). There's a lot more for kids to get involved in here.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Maybe we should go and read the original article again - it seems like the discussions have veered off track and become a lot more personal. Canada is a great country and if I wanted to bother - if it was so important to me to have to rush out and defend my country - it would be a pretty straightforward matter to back up many of the statements made in the Macleans' article. The documentary evidence and statistics exist and have been collected. But really, guys, who said it had to become a competition? Why do we need to make it an 'either/or' situation - either you love Canada and hate the US or hate Canada and love the US. There has never been any intention to make this distinction. It is like the comparison between the US and Canadian dollars - sometimes the US dollar is worth more and sometimes the Canadian dollar is. It doesn't make anything right or wrong, or black and white.

My observation about Canadians understanding and Americans going 'huh' has been reinforced quite a number of times over the collective posts. Americans have shown over and over again that they do not understand - and why should they? It is not their experience. There is an indefinable quality about being a Canadian that is cannot be fully understood except from the inside out. Perhaps this personal story might provide an analogy to help explain:

My career and training are in the heritage sector as a museum professional. In 1995 I submitted a proposal to the Uncle Tom's Cabin Historic Site (now National Historic Site) in Dresden Ontario to do the design and installation of their new exhibition/interpretation centre. The original Dawn Settlement of Dresden, Upper Canada was founded by Josiah Henson (the inspiration for Harriet Beecher Stowe's character of Uncle Tom) along with other former slaves who had escaped to freedom in Canada. They established a community wherein they taught newcomers from the Underground Railroad how to be self-sufficient, how to look after their own homes and trained them for a useful occupation (carpenters, wood workers, seamstresses, etc.). During the initial interview with the Board of Directors when I was trying to get the contract one of the Board members who was a descendant of one of the original settlers asked me how I, as a white person, could begin to understand what it was like being a black refugee from slavery trying to build a life in a new world. I told him that I couldn't. I also said that he couldn't either because neither of us were black refugees from slavery trying to build a life in a new world. What I could do, though, was research and tell the story from the outside, using resources and materials provided from the original settlers to help tell that story. I could use their words and their experiences to make the story come to life and I could get a pretty darn good understanding of what it would be like, even though I could never actually know it on a personal level. It would be the closest any of us could get. (I got the contract and the exhibit was some of my best work. Most of it is still intact 12 years later.)

The closest we can get to understanding history - or understanding one another - is through personal interpretation. The interpretation is going to be tempered by our degree of knowledge about the actual events, by our own experiences and by our own biases. Those of us who work in the historical field have an ongoing challenge to discover our own biases and try to prevent them from inadvertently distorting the story line - unless that is something we deliberately wish to do. There have been a lot of generalizations about both Canadian and American history made on this thread - and some have been taken out of their intended context as to be stereotyped when stereotyping was not implied - that is a personal bias that has coloured the interpretation. In fact, it is more accurate to state that there were at least 4 distinctly different cultural founding communities in different geographical areas to settle the early US - and I am talking long before Revolutionary times here which really focuses on the supremacy of one of those cultural identities over the others (the 13 colonies/New England). The same is true about Canadian history - there is a wonderful interplay of power struggles between the early Dutch, the French and the British - as well as reaction to/against the threat of the country that became the United States - both before and after the War of Independence. Also of significant impact to both countries are the roles placed by the various First Nations - the Indians/Native Americans. None of us are going to be able to more than discuss in very very very very broad generalizations the history of either of these countries - there just isn't space!

Canada's relationship with the US has often been described as living in the shadow of the elephant. When the elephant turns over - you notice - and you react if you don't want to get squished. The Canadians will understand this from the inside out - the Americans and other countries may see what is happening by observation but no matter how much they try, they will not be able to fully inculcate the awareness - to understand it as a Canadian because it is not part of their experience, it is not part of the awareness. This is not a flaw, it is not a complaint, it is not a criticism on either part. Americans can see the results of that experience and may even understand why it exists, but unless you grew up with it, it is not your experience. So, while I could not understand what it was like to be a black refugee from slavery trying to build a new life and new home in 19th century wilderness Canada, I could appreciate that there is a uniqueness to that experience that is valid and integral to the identity of those people. I can respect the differences, I can try to understand them, and I can appreciate that as close as I get to it, I will never fully know it until it is also my experience.

I guess that is what we Canadians would like to have from our American friends and neighbours - an acceptance that we are different in ways you will never know or understand, and not try to change us or tell us we are wrong because you don't see it the same way as do we.

[SapphireDreams 71]

Edited July 5, 2008 by SapphireDreams

[SapphireDreams 71]

Maybe we should go and read the original article again - it seems like the discussions have veered off track and become a lot more personal. Canada is a great country and if I wanted to bother - if it was so important to me to have to rush out and defend my country - it would be a pretty straightforward matter to back up many of the statements made in the Macleans' article. The documentary evidence and statistics exist and have been collected. But really, guys, who said it had to become a competition? Why do we need to make it an 'either/or' situation - either you love Canada and hate the US or hate Canada and love the US. There has never been any intention to make this distinction. It is like the comparison between the US and Canadian dollars - sometimes the US dollar is worth more and sometimes the Canadian dollar is. It doesn't make anything right or wrong, or black and white.

My observation about Canadians understanding and Americans going 'huh' has been reinforced quite a number of times over the collective posts. Americans have shown over and over again that they do not understand - and why should they? It is not their experience. There is an indefinable quality about being a Canadian that is cannot be fully understood except from the inside out. Perhaps this personal story might provide an analogy to help explain:

My career and training are in the heritage sector as a museum professional. In 1995 I submitted a proposal to the Uncle Tom's Cabin Historic Site (now National Historic Site) in Dresden Ontario to do the design and installation of their new exhibition/interpretation centre. The original Dawn Settlement of Dresden, Upper Canada was founded by Josiah Henson (the inspiration for Harriet Beecher Stowe's character of Uncle Tom) along with other former slaves who had escaped to freedom in Canada. They established a community wherein they taught newcomers from the Underground Railroad how to be self-sufficient, how to look after their own homes and trained them for a useful occupation (carpenters, wood workers, seamstresses, etc.). During the initial interview with the Board of Directors when I was trying to get the contract one of the Board members who was a descendant of one of the original settlers asked me how I, as a white person, could begin to understand what it was like being a black refugee from slavery trying to build a life in a new world. I told him that I couldn't. I also said that he couldn't either because neither of us were black refugees from slavery trying to build a life in a new world. What I could do, though, was research and tell the story from the outside, using resources and materials provided from the original settlers to help tell that story. I could use their words and their experiences to make the story come to life and I could get a pretty darn good understanding of what it would be like, even though I could never actually know it on a personal level. It would be the closest any of us could get. (I got the contract and the exhibit was some of my best work. Most of it is still intact 12 years later.)

The closest we can get to understanding history - or understanding one another - is through personal interpretation. The interpretation is going to be tempered by our degree of knowledge about the actual events, by our own experiences and by our own biases. Those of us who work in the historical field have an ongoing challenge to discover our own biases and try to prevent them from inadvertently distorting the story line - unless that is something we deliberately wish to do. There have been a lot of generalizations about both Canadian and American history made on this thread - and some have been taken out of their intended context as to be stereotyped when stereotyping was not implied - that is a personal bias that has coloured the interpretation. In fact, it is more accurate to state that there were at least 4 distinctly different cultural founding communities in different geographical areas to settle the early US - and I am talking long before Revolutionary times here which really focuses on the supremacy of one of those cultural identities over the others (the 13 colonies/New England). The same is true about Canadian history - there is a wonderful interplay of power struggles between the early Dutch, the French and the British - as well as reaction to/against the threat of the country that became the United States - both before and after the War of Independence. Also of significant impact to both countries are the roles placed by the various First Nations - the Indians/Native Americans. None of us are going to be able to more than discuss in very very very very broad generalizations the history of either of these countries - there just isn't space!

Canada's relationship with the US has often been described as living in the shadow of the elephant. When the elephant turns over - you notice - and you react if you don't want to get squished. The Canadians will understand this from the inside out - the Americans and other countries may see what is happening by observation but no matter how much they try, they will not be able to fully inculcate the awareness - to understand it as a Canadian because it is not part of their experience, it is not part of the awareness. This is not a flaw, it is not a complaint, it is not a criticism on either part. Americans can see the results of that experience and may even understand why it exists, but unless you grew up with it, it is not your experience. So, while I could not understand what it was like to be a black refugee from slavery trying to build a new life and new home in 19th century wilderness Canada, I could appreciate that there is a uniqueness to that experience that is valid and integral to the identity of those people. I can respect the differences, I can try to understand them, and I can appreciate that as close as I get to it, I will never fully know it until it is also my experience.

I guess that is what we Canadians would like to have from our American friends and neighbours - an acceptance that we are different in ways you will never know or understand, and not try to change us or tell us we are wrong because you don't see it the same way as do we.

Very nice post. Loved it. Thanks for contributing.

[thetreble 19]

The closest we can get to understanding history - or understanding one another - is through personal interpretation. The interpretation is going to be tempered by our degree of knowledge about the actual events, by our own experiences and by our own biases.

Canada's relationship with the US has often been described as living in the shadow of the elephant. When the elephant turns over - you notice - and you react if you don't want to get squished. The Canadians will understand this from the inside out - the Americans and other countries may see what is happening by observation but no matter how much they try, they will not be able to fully inculcate the awareness - to understand it as a Canadian because it is not part of their experience, it is not part of the awareness. This is not a flaw, it is not a complaint, it is not a criticism on either part. Americans can see the results of that experience and may even understand why it exists, but unless you grew up with it, it is not your experience.

Yes. This is a perfect understanding of how I feel. Not just about the Canada VS America debate, but just about life in general.

Edited July 5, 2008 by thetreble

[Reba 2]

Canada's relationship with the US has often been described as living in the shadow of the elephant. When the elephant turns over - you notice - and you react if you don't want to get squished. The Canadians will understand this from the inside out

Unfortunately, the Americans just read it that we're calling them a fat elephant.

But when you start making comparisons people are gonna feel offended and I'm sorry to single you out Reba (cuz I know you're a sweetheart) but your post was a comparison on our differences and it was definitely intent on putting the US down and Canada up

No, I'm not a sweetheart, anyone who knows me personally will tell you I'm a cruel heartless ######. Including my darling husband, and my own mother. Why, because I have a rather direct way of speaking. I don't beat around the bush, use euphemisms, or politically correct language. Its #######, its a waste of time and really serves no purpose other than to coddle. I share this trait with the late great George Carlin. Who I am sure is screaming up at us at this very moment.

If you took offence to my earlier post, well I can assure you that was not my intent. I really was merely making comparisons between the countries to explain our differences, nothing more. If you found offence in that, well, maybe you should take another look.

The point is, the way that our 2 countries were founded have deeply affected the later generations. Those first settlers to each country each had different outlooks on life, and different purposes and reasons for coming to the new world. The attitudes of those first people have continued with later generations, and with the "founding fathers" of both countries. Those early settlers may have all come from the same European countries, but the people themselves were different. They had different agendas, they had different experiences, and they formed our countries independently of each other. So even if at the base of things, our gentic make-up may be exactly the same, we are fundamentally different.

If being different is offensive, well, I can't help that. If over-simplification is offensive, well, blame Reader's Digest.

And if you want to see some Canada bashing for a change, just check out any of Gary's threads over in Off-Topic. He's always finding all sorts of factually wrong articles with sweeping generalisations about Canada.

[Krikit 1,164]

As an aside, a quick story about the "have a beer" way of doing things. I'm involved in a dog sport which spans the border. Sometimes a team travels with a skeleton crew, and needs to enlist the help of other participants during the tournament. Down here in the US, folks usually offer to reciprocate help ("if you can help our team, we'll help yours" sort of thing). Well, we drove from NC up to Ontario for a tournament, and a Canadian team asked us if we could help them out with the offer "We'll give you a six-pack!" HAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!! My US teammates were shocked, but I just said "That's how we roll in Canada!"

Yeap, my US friends just don't understand when I offer to "pay" them with beer. Back home if my plumbing needs fixed, I call my brother in law and say "James, my tap is leaking. Bring your tools, I have beer". Or if I need help moving I call a friend with a pick-up truck "hey dude, I'm moving again, bring your truck, I've got beer". Or when a friend of mine was re-decorating her home. She'd call up and say "ok, I've got paint and wallpaper and a case of beer, be here by noon!"

The paying with beer thing is sooooooooo true! The heartwarming thing is that it is more than just paying with beer. It's the camaraderie and the bonding and the sense of "doing unto others". I'm really lucky in that I have found that exact same outlook on life here in my new neighbourhood. Everyone pitches in and helps each other out, as well as watching out for one another. It's soooooooo nice. I have the best neighbours ever.

[PlatyPius 5]

OMGWTFBBQ!?! AMERIKA-BASHING by CANADAIANSSS ITT!!111

"Blame Canada

Blame Canada

It seems that everything's gone wrong

Since Canada came along

Blame Canada

Blame Canada

They're not even a real country anyway!"

[thetreble 19]

Krikit-that is awesome that you have found great neighbours who all pitch in and help each other out. That must be great. The paying in beer thing is so true. Every time my friends did something nice for me, I'd take them out for some beers.

[pegbert64 0]

The paying with beer thing is sooooooooo true! The heartwarming thing is that it is more than just paying with beer. It's the camaraderie and the bonding and the sense of "doing unto others". I'm really lucky in that I have found that exact same outlook on life here in my new neighbourhood. Everyone pitches in and helps each other out, as well as watching out for one another. It's soooooooo nice. I have the best neighbours ever.

Well of course....... it's not "Here's your beer - now go away". Yer meant to crack that sucker open and stay a while!!! I am teaching my neighbors this, by wandering onto their patios late afternoon, with dogs in tow and beer in hand