Visa canceled

[Teacher Mark 53]

Peter,

I understand that the consulate does not have an easy job and is overwhelmed with petitions. If the consulate is that overwhelmed they should either cut back on petitions, staff up for the higher demand of petitions, or step down from their position. It really is not fare to those of us who want a equal and just decision and are not getting that. They raised the cost of the application fees back in August 2007 so what are these fees going towards? The consulate does not even give you the option of explaining yourself if they do not agree with something. Where is Due Process in this whole thing? At least with the state or local officials, there is Due Process. Is this America that they are representing or have they been in Vietnam for so long that they forgot what America stands for and the simple freedoms that we take for granted? I truly believe that something needs to be done about the whole process here in Vietnam. Perhaps polygraph testing should be the new method to weed out fraudulent petitions.

J & Q

While I agree that bureaucracry at any level of government should be fixed, the problem is American voters don't vote for taxes or honest politicans (usually) so little gets fixed. Also the burearucracy (with their unions) resist all change to a performance based job placement/review. Once hired most bureaucrats are there until they quit or die, regardless of whether or not they are qualified to do their jobs or do their jobs properly.

The new fees are suppose to help by hiring more people, buying more equipment so the process gets better. However the people in charge have a different mindset than the rest of us who are employed by a private company or in business for themselves. Therefore I'm skeptical that anything will really change until the President, Secretary of State, Congress and the rest of the heads of the bureaucracy decide to change the process. This comes under the heading of Immigration reform which we know is a "hot button" topic that causes most elected officials to avoid or make meaningless attempts at reform. The American general population doesn't help because they think it's about illegal aliens not about fixing the legal immigration problems.

The legal immigration laws are based on the thinking of 1900s America not based on the realities of

21st century America. The world is much smaller than it was, better educated and with a lot more communication between people yet most governments still act like it takes weeks to travel anywhere and weeks for information to travel between people.

What can we do about this mess?

We have to take care of ourselves by arming ourselves with the best information we can about the process, prepare the best possible case and plan for the worst. Waiting for the US people to vote for officals who will fix this process, demanding them to do this and apply continious review and pressure to insure this gets done isn't going to help any of us now. We should do what we can to change the system of course but in the meantime, we help each other with the most information we can get about how HCMC Consulate decides our cases.

For what I've seen here, your I-129f not the evidence at the interview is most important to how the HCMC Consulate decides your case. What can help us all the best with this is to share what we did right and wrong.

In my case, I made sure to address any issuse I thought the Consulate would be a reason for a denial. I went through our relationship listing everything: I had decided to meet Vietnamese women in the US not Vietnam but had lots of Vietnamese women from Vietnam respond to my Vietsingle profile. Thi was one that responded to my prolife. Thi and I didn't keep any of our first emails. I'm much older than she is. She barely cold write in English. I don't speak Vietnamese tho I have clients who are Vietnamese. They never wanted to help me learn. Thi and I had only known each other for 8 months before we met in person and then got engaged within a week of meeting. I stayed with her sister's family not a hotel. I had sent her money for a computer to test her intentions (hoping it would help our relationship by not having to wait for emails and be able to video/audio chat). I had many of my friends telling me she was just trying to get money or a green card from me.

So I set about answering these issues in the I-129f because the Consulate has the most time to study that. They have almost no time at the interview. They have to make up 80-90% of their decision on the petition submitted. My I-129f #18 statement plus the proof of ongoing relationship statement was I presented these problems and answered them in my own words backed up with all the evidence I could get. When there was little or none evidence, I explained why that was. Any differences between evidence was explained, for example in my case my flight to HCMC was delayed by 6 hours which cause the visa stamp to be difference than the actual time I landed in HCMC and what my itnerary/ plane tickets stated. So I wrote a statement explaining that with vouchers and a apology letter from United.

I hope this helps anyone who is now in the process of submitting their I-129f because these discussions should shed light on what works and what should be avoided.

To those who are waiting for the Head of the Consulate and Mark Ellis to return, I hope Mark gets back in time to stop the Consulate and get everyone their visa.

Peter and Thi

I-129F Sent : 2007-05-26

I-129F NOA1 : 2007-06-11

I-129F RFE(s) :

RFE Reply(s) :

I-129F NOA2 : 2007-10-26

Touched: 2007-11-02

NVC Recieved: 2007-11-16

Consulate recieved ??????

Packet 3 sent 2007-12-11

Packet 3 received 2007-12-24

Packet 3 returned 2007-12-28

Packet 4 sent 2008-1-14

Email Reply with Interview Date 2008-1-23

Interview Date 2008-2-27

Passed Interview 2008-02-27

Visa Pick Up Date 2008-3-05

Received Visa 2008-2-29 (called to pick up earlier)

POE 2008-3-05 Los Angeles

Wedding 2008-4-26

Well thought out and written Peter.

[martindart 0]

We're sorry that lately there's been a lot of blue slips from VJers.

However I think you need to understand that you're dealing with a bureaucracy. The HCMC Consulate is no different from the IRS or your local city department of zoning. If you don't follow their rules, they throw your paperwork back at you until you fix what is wrong. Then they look at it again starting from where they left off. They don't go thru your paperwork and tell you everything that's wrong. That's not their job. Their job is to return the paperwork at the first sign of a problem. It's a stupid practice but it's the way the US/State/local governments work. They don't work like a private business. If they were a private business operating like this then they'd be out of business years ago. If you haven't dealt with the any level of the government in the US then you would think HCMC is crazy, unfair and needs an overhall.

In HCMC Consulate, it's usually too late to at the interview to clarify issues that your original I-129f brought up. These issues could be simple things like forgetting to include the chat room where you met, not having the original email of introduction between you and your fiancee (which we didn't have btw) which you didn't explain or provide evidence for. They don't want to ask your fiancee or you about it at the interview, the procedure is to give a blue slip, then see if the evidence sunmitted in response to the blue slip is enough to satisfy the blue slip then look at your case from the point where the blue slip was given. If your case didn't include any other issues such as no credit slip for your plane trip, relative info to make sure everything is legit, etc and If your fiancee didn't say anything wrong at the interview, ie get dates wrong, or names, etc then you will get your pink slip. The more issues the Consulate has with your case the more likely it could get sent back to the US.

The reason for being so cold heared? They are dealing with a huge amount of cases because this is the number one K1 visa place in the world at least in 2004. (The number of K1 fiance (e) aplicaltions continues to rapidly increase, from 2,390 in 2000 to 7,840 in 2004 according to the 2004 Inspection Report on Hanoi and HCMC). If that rate of increase is constant that means they are dealing with somewhere around 15,000 cases now. If you had 100 cases a day to deal with, you'd pass the time consuming ones on (give blue slips and send back to the US) instead of taking the time to deal with them. Not right but it's human nature when overworked. It's your job to make it easy for them not hard, don't give them a reason to give you a blue slip.

I understand that this is your loved one and your future they're dealling with, not a permit to build a backyard fence so it is very emotional. Just remember, the HCMC Consulate only wants to make sure the K1 Visa it grants is a valid.

If you persist you will prevail. Dave_Thao are a good example of that.

We hope everyone presently with blues slips/return to the USCIS, etc get their cases resolved quickly and fairly.

Peter and Thi

I-129F Sent : 2007-05-26

I-129F NOA1 : 2007-06-11

I-129F RFE(s) :

RFE Reply(s) :

I-129F NOA2 : 2007-10-26

Touched: 2007-11-02

NVC Recieved: 2007-11-16

Consulate recieved ??????

Packet 3 sent 2007-12-11

Packet 3 received 2007-12-24

Packet 3 returned 2007-12-28

Packet 4 sent 2008-1-14

Email Reply with Interview Date 2008-1-23

Interview Date 2008-2-27

Passed Interview 2008-02-27

Visa Pick Up Date 2008-3-05

Received Visa 2008-2-29 (called to pick up earlier)

POE 2008-3-05 Los Angeles

Wedding 2008-4-26

If homeland security did, face-to-face interviews/background checks on petitioners as part of USCIS procedures fraudulent petitions would be stopped here. Anyone (even me) would have welcomed this process knowing what I’ve been through and the heartache of being blue sheeted, green sheeted, petitions sent back, winning that process, being blue sheeted again after the second interview because my fiancée forgot engagement date…(I’m mad now!!!) That was back in 2006 folks gone but not forgotten.

In USA we see engagement date as day of the purposed of marriage (will you marry me?) however in VN, it is the day engement ceremony (party) happens duh… who cares? The CO did… even having a reaffirmed petition and waiting just over two years waiting for a second interview (submission of a ton of proof) once again, we were stopped.

Once a petition is alleged to be a sham to evade immigration laws the CO, or consular staff goes on the defensive to support their finding are true. (In my case) The CO then sifts through our supporting evidence to twist, misrepresent the facts. (Example) My fiancée submitted some 50 + photos of our engagement ceremony in Bien Hoa, they carefully selected (and kept) photos showing only a few people at a table and concluded a small number of people attended our party However, as part of my evidence before Nebraska Service Center who reaffirmed my petition, I submitted the same set of uncensored photos showing dozens and dozens of attendees in the background.

On a different note: regularly here, on VJ, I am seeing a high number of Vietnam cases having the need for ME influence. (Forgive me ME) I too am a ME success story… I just do not understand why these cases are NOT standing on their own. Is it now part of their SOP to retain this good man to keep Consular Staff via the Visa Chief to conduct them selves within the law?

Hang in there Jeff.

[Jack & Xuan 0]

My case has not been approved by the USCIS yet and I have already gotten ME on it. I do not want to take any chances if I can help it. I would rather pay for ME now and have a better then average chance to get it on the first time then take the chance and see what happens. I will not ever know if I really needed to hire "this good man" and I am ok with that. It is worth it to me to know that he has been helpful to those in the past and I am starting off with him in my corner. I hope it helps.

[J & Q 0]

My case has not been approved by the USCIS yet and I have already gotten ME on it. I do not want to take any chances if I can help it. I would rather pay for ME now and have a better then average chance to get it on the first time then take the chance and see what happens. I will not ever know if I really needed to hire "this good man" and I am ok with that. It is worth it to me to know that he has been helpful to those in the past and I am starting off with him in my corner. I hope it helps.

Yeah, unfortunately I found out about ME afterwards. We are just hoping that his office can do something to so that we can be together very soon.

[Jack & Xuan 0]

My case has not been approved by the USCIS yet and I have already gotten ME on it. I do not want to take any chances if I can help it. I would rather pay for ME now and have a better then average chance to get it on the first time then take the chance and see what happens. I will not ever know if I really needed to hire "this good man" and I am ok with that. It is worth it to me to know that he has been helpful to those in the past and I am starting off with him in my corner. I hope it helps.

Yeah, unfortunately I found out about ME afterwards. We are just hoping that his office can do something to so that we can be together very soon.

I did not know about ME when I filed the I-129 and I had already paid another lawyer to help me. Once I found this web site and seen how people on here valued his help I decided to hire him as well. I hope he will be able to help both of our cases.

[Thai family 0]

If homeland security did, face-to-face interviews/background checks on petitioners as part of USCIS procedures fraudulent petitions would be stopped here. Anyone (even me) would have welcomed this process

I heartily second that. Make those up-front interviews: The USC petitioner goes to their local office with the petitions and supporting documents and goes over everything with an officer at the very start of the process. An up or down vote could be given on the spot, pending security checks, approval by another officer or provision of additional evidence. I live in a fantasy world.

My heart goes out to everyone going through Vietnam. May you be reunited with loved ones soon

[LuckyDucky 0]

On a different note: regularly here, on VJ, I am seeing a high number of Vietnam cases having the need for ME influence. (Forgive me ME) I too am a ME success story… I just do not understand why these cases are NOT standing on their own. Is it now part of their SOP to retain this good man to keep Consular Staff via the Visa Chief to conduct them selves within the law?

I can say that I've been fortunately enough not to have to consult with Mark Ellis to get our visa approved. We were a touch nervous because she was originally given a green slip asking for a detailed timeline of our relationship (which I had already prepared, but apparently it was insufficient) and a letter from her aunt, who was the one that introduced us. Since we worked together, she photocopied her ID badge with her letter and I submitted my hiring letter that showed we worked at the same place for 6 years. I also got letters from people that knew we had met each other through work. At the second interview she got her approval.

She also had the translator and only spoke Vietnamese with her. When I asked her why she didn't respond in English, she said that she felt it was rude. I can understand that, but it didn't help my nerves while I waited for the results.

[don2008 0]

J&Q,

hows it going now? any good news yet?

[J & Q 0]

J&Q,

hows it going now? any good news yet?

Not really any good news to report. I received an email from my Congressman yesterday stating that the consulate refused to reconsider our case because there is not enough supporting documents. I am like #######. How much supporting documents does one need? We gave them everything that they asked us for and more. We gave them 3 photo albums worth of pictures, daily email correspondence, daily text message bills, phone bills, and letters. All together we much have had a forest worth of papers.

Anyway, I am traveling to Vietnam to spend some time with my loved one and hopefully sort this mess out while I am there. I will be there fro August 1 through August 14.

Hopefully I will have better news.

[don2008 0]

good luck. i hope it works out for you. keep us posted.

[LuckyDucky 0]

Good luck! I know it's tough. Keep us updated.

[What's next 1]

J&Q,

hows it going now? any good news yet?

Not really any good news to report. I received an email from my Congressman yesterday stating that the consulate refused to reconsider our case because there is not enough supporting documents. I am like #######. How much supporting documents does one need? We gave them everything that they asked us for and more. We gave them 3 photo albums worth of pictures, daily email correspondence, daily text message bills, phone bills, and letters. All together we much have had a forest worth of papers.

Anyway, I am traveling to Vietnam to spend some time with my loved one and hopefully sort this mess out while I am there. I will be there fro August 1 through August 14.

Hopefully I will have better news.

If you made duplicates of your evidence, I would try submitting the same evidence again. They asked us for more evidence, but we had given them everything already. so we just gave them a stack of the same evidence. Surely they don't go through everything the first time, it'll be new to them the second time.

[wait4ever 0]

Well my fiancee went back to turn in the requested information per the blue slip last Thursday. Apparently the consulates office told her that they are not accepting blue slips and that she will have to come back on Monday. She went back yesterday with all of the information in hand and apparently they canceled the petition and are sending it back to the US. I really don't understand how they can do this after we have given everything and more of what they requested. I even had my congressman contact the consulate after the last incident. We both are so distraught right now and don't know what to do. She is supposed to be sending me the denial slip soon.

Has anyone else ever been through this or no of anyone who has? If so what did you/they do?

J&Q,

I am sorry to hear of your troubles with the Consulate. Although we were never denied, we faced four years of blue & green slips and all the awful bureaucracy that the HCMC Consulate could dish out. We were introduced by wife's aunt here in the US. After our blue slip, I was sure that part of the reason was the introduction by her aunt. As we approached my wife's third interview, we hired ME to make sure we had everything. He asked me " Can you provide a picture of you and your fiancee's aunt together?". My first though was, Marc, you're crazy. They hate relative introductions. But, I did have a picture and provided it. Fortunately our case was approved after that. In hindsight I think that perhaps the relative introduction is not always a count against you, but you must prove that your relationship stands up on its own separate from the association with the relative introducing the two of you. The fact that her aunt lives here has been a tremendous positive, easing her transition to the US, providing an extended family base of support. Her aunt is, in essence, her mother in the US.

Concerning your denial, it is terribly unfortunate and my heart goes out to you. I personally know of a couple who went through this. The denial was poorly supported by the Consular officer, as I suspect many are. It was immediately overturned by the USCIS, I think with minimal rebuttal on the part of the US citizen. The problem came in getting the paperwork back to the HCMC Consulate, and it took the actions of the Senator's office to get things back on track. After that the Consulate still gave them problems, but eventually they relented and issued a visa. It was an awful process for them, but they are a happy couple now and the proud parents of a beautiful baby boy.

My recommendation to you is to prepare to rebut your case with the USCIS for it's arrival stateside. Continue to build and document your relationship so that you are armed with even more evidence at her next interview. Don't let the pressure of the situation poison the relationship with your fiancee. Find strength in your ability to fight this together. Make sure your Congressman is following up on the progress of your case. It may be a long battle, but stick with it. I will be worth it in the end. Best of luck to you both.

[J & Q 0]

Well my fiancee went back to turn in the requested information per the blue slip last Thursday. Apparently the consulates office told her that they are not accepting blue slips and that she will have to come back on Monday. She went back yesterday with all of the information in hand and apparently they canceled the petition and are sending it back to the US. I really don't understand how they can do this after we have given everything and more of what they requested. I even had my congressman contact the consulate after the last incident. We both are so distraught right now and don't know what to do. She is supposed to be sending me the denial slip soon.

Has anyone else ever been through this or no of anyone who has? If so what did you/they do?

J&Q,

I am sorry to hear of your troubles with the Consulate. Although we were never denied, we faced four years of blue & green slips and all the awful bureaucracy that the HCMC Consulate could dish out. We were introduced by wife's aunt here in the US. After our blue slip, I was sure that part of the reason was the introduction by her aunt. As we approached my wife's third interview, we hired ME to make sure we had everything. He asked me " Can you provide a picture of you and your fiancee's aunt together?". My first though was, Marc, you're crazy. They hate relative introductions. But, I did have a picture and provided it. Fortunately our case was approved after that. In hindsight I think that perhaps the relative introduction is not always a count against you, but you must prove that your relationship stands up on its own separate from the association with the relative introducing the two of you. The fact that her aunt lives here has been a tremendous positive, easing her transition to the US, providing an extended family base of support. Her aunt is, in essence, her mother in the US.

Concerning your denial, it is terribly unfortunate and my heart goes out to you. I personally know of a couple who went through this. The denial was poorly supported by the Consular officer, as I suspect many are. It was immediately overturned by the USCIS, I think with minimal rebuttal on the part of the US citizen. The problem came in getting the paperwork back to the HCMC Consulate, and it took the actions of the Senator's office to get things back on track. After that the Consulate still gave them problems, but eventually they relented and issued a visa. It was an awful process for them, but they are a happy couple now and the proud parents of a beautiful baby boy.

My recommendation to you is to prepare to rebut your case with the USCIS for it's arrival stateside. Continue to build and document your relationship so that you are armed with even more evidence at her next interview. Don't let the pressure of the situation poison the relationship with your fiancee. Find strength in your ability to fight this together. Make sure your Congressman is following up on the progress of your case. It may be a long battle, but stick with it. I will be worth it in the end. Best of luck to you both.

Wait4ever,

I truly appreciate your response. It has been a tough couple weeks after we received the worst possible outcome. Things are better between us now, we were just so disappointed because we thought that we would be starting our lives together as a family soon and now it is anyone's guess. We have recently hired ME and I am flying out on 7/31 to meet with him and to spend some time with my love. I am hoping that I will get there before the consulate sends back the petition if he hasn't done so already. ME's office asked me for all of our email correspondents from my mail box but as luck would have it, my hard drive crashed and surely enough all of my emails were stored on it. I will never use AOL's service again as emails do not save to their server indefinitely like Yahoo or Gmail. I contacted AOL and they state that once an email has either been deleted or expired it is not recoverable. I was only able to recover emails from June and July. That alone is almost 100 emails that I sent let alone what she sent. I am hoping that when I get a replacement computer I can recover the emails since I backed up my PC in June using Norton Ghost.

Hopefully I will have better news when I return.

[pasaitoh 0]

Wait4ever,

I truly appreciate your response. It has been a tough couple weeks after we received the worst possible outcome. Things are better between us now, we were just so disappointed because we thought that we would be starting our lives together as a family soon and now it is anyone's guess. We have recently hired ME and I am flying out on 7/31 to meet with him and to spend some time with my love. I am hoping that I will get there before the consulate sends back the petition if he hasn't done so already. ME's office asked me for all of our email correspondents from my mail box but as luck would have it, my hard drive crashed and surely enough all of my emails were stored on it. I will never use AOL's service again as emails do not save to their server indefinitely like Yahoo or Gmail. I contacted AOL and they state that once an email has either been deleted or expired it is not recoverable. I was only able to recover emails from June and July. That alone is almost 100 emails that I sent let alone what she sent. I am hoping that when I get a replacement computer I can recover the emails since I backed up my PC in June using Norton Ghost.

Hopefully I will have better news when I return.

You should try shoving the drive into another pc. You might luck out and be able to get your email off of it. Even if you think it is totally dead, you might try a program called Spinrite. Just google for it. Leo Laporte swears up and down it can recover stuff other tools cannot. I think it costs a little bit, but if you could get your email it would be worth its weight in gold.

Now you will back up every week from now on right?

I learned the hard way when i lost all of our yahoo chat, fortunately my old attorney had made copies of what i printed out. Now I make sure i back up at least once a week.

Good luck!