Visa canceled

[mimhnhut 0]

How is the Hanoi Embassy in relation to the one in Ho chi Minh City? I think that they really need to restructure the whole embassy, even if that means firing everyone and starting from scratch.

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All of immigrant visa are issue by HCM consulate.

Ha Noi Embassy only issue non-immigrant visa ( travel, study trip, business).

[Tyrobe 1]

My attorney here in NYC is great. It is the bozo that we hired in HCM. This guy thinks he knows it all and advices her against what my attorney and I say. I have told him numerous times not to go against me. This was the last straw. I advised her to get the paperwork that he has and bring it with her to the new person we will hire. I was going to call but figured that I may make matters worse and cause him to keep us from getting the paperwork back. I am so pissed right now I just want to jump on a plane and kick his butt all over HCM.

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. Hang in there buddy. I just hope the CO would know our emotional pain caused by their unjust decision. Anyway, I would not trust some of the outside helpers in HCM. When my wife and I went to pick up her medical result at Cho Ray Hospital, I overheard two women there talking about getting outside helpers to organize interview paperwork for $100. My wife and I just laughed at this service.

[J & Q 0]

How is the Hanoi Embassy in relation to the one in Ho chi Minh City? I think that they really need to restructure the whole embassy, even if that means firing everyone and starting from scratch.

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All of immigrant visa are issue by HCM consulate.

Ha Noi Embassy only issue non-immigrant visa ( travel, study trip, business).

There are a lot of people it seems that state they know the inner workings of the consulate and can help you get your visa. You really need to be careful on finding the right person. I wish that we knew now what we knew back then. Anyway, I spoke with my Congressman's office staff yesterday morning. I was told that per there last inquiry with the consulate all the consulate needed was a list of her relatives and we would be granted our visa when we turned it in. they are baffled why the consulate has changed his mind and decided to send the case back. They are hoping they can get the consulate to reconsider our case. I truly hope that their influence will impact the consulates decision in our favor.

[Kevin and 10]

How is the Hanoi Embassy in relation to the one in Ho chi Minh City? I think that they really need to restructure the whole embassy, even if that means firing everyone and starting from scratch.

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All of immigrant visa are issue by HCM consulate.

Ha Noi Embassy only issue non-immigrant visa ( travel, study trip, business).

There are a lot of people it seems that state they know the inner workings of the consulate and can help you get your visa. You really need to be careful on finding the right person. I wish that we knew now what we knew back then. Anyway, I spoke with my Congressman's office staff yesterday morning. I was told that per there last inquiry with the consulate all the consulate needed was a list of her relatives and we would be granted our visa when we turned it in. they are baffled why the consulate has changed his mind and decided to send the case back. They are hoping they can get the consulate to reconsider our case. I truly hope that their influence will impact the consulates decision in our favor.

HCM wanted a timeline from me. I was pretty excited, they made it sound like everything was OK except they wanted a little more information. I sent it to them and they in return sent our case back to the US. The second blue slip stated lack of communication evidence. #######. Couldn't they have stated that the first time? There is something wrong over there when they ask for additional information then send case back once they receive requested evidence/information. And the reason for sending cases back isn't even addressed on the initial Blue Slip.

Edited July 2, 2008 by Kevin and Tuyen

[pasaitoh 0]

HCM wanted a timeline from me. I was pretty excited, they made it sound like everything was OK except they wanted a little more information. I sent it to them and they in return sent our case back to the US. The second blue slip stated lack of communication evidence. #######. Couldn't they have stated that the first time? There is something wrong over there when they ask for additional information then send case back once they receive requested evidence/information. And the reason for sending cases back isn't even addressed on the initial Blue Slip.

Yeah the same happened to us. My thing is they ask everyone for a timeline. It should be part of what they request you bring as part of the interview packet. My thought is they rubberstamp blue slip all apps so they can fleece you by collecting the $30 notarization fee for the consulate. Notarization should be $10 tops, but where else can you have it done in HCMC? They obviously aren't reviewing the case and documentation until after they blueslip you. Then they come up with their "reason" for rejection. If there are issues the consulate wants to see resolved, they should be listed on the blue slip. That is one thing that steams me.

[J & Q 0]

How is the Hanoi Embassy in relation to the one in Ho chi Minh City? I think that they really need to restructure the whole embassy, even if that means firing everyone and starting from scratch.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5k-9IZfSFfE&hl=en"></param><param'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5k-9IZfSFfE&hl=en"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5k-9IZfSFfE&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

All of immigrant visa are issue by HCM consulate.

Ha Noi Embassy only issue non-immigrant visa ( travel, study trip, business).

There are a lot of people it seems that state they know the inner workings of the consulate and can help you get your visa. You really need to be careful on finding the right person. I wish that we knew now what we knew back then. Anyway, I spoke with my Congressman's office staff yesterday morning. I was told that per there last inquiry with the consulate all the consulate needed was a list of her relatives and we would be granted our visa when we turned it in. they are baffled why the consulate has changed his mind and decided to send the case back. They are hoping they can get the consulate to reconsider our case. I truly hope that their influence will impact the consulates decision in our favor.

HCM wanted a timeline from me. I was pretty excited, they made it sound like everything was OK except they wanted a little more information. I sent it to them and they in return sent our case back to the US. The second blue slip stated lack of communication evidence. #######. Couldn't they have stated that the first time? There is something wrong over there when they ask for additional information then send case back once they receive requested evidence/information. And the reason for sending cases back isn't even addressed on the initial Blue Slip.

That was my complaint. She received 2 blue slips, the first for a timeline and additional proof of airline tickets and the second for her family and friends living in the US information. We satisfied all of their needs and they still sent the damn petition back to the US. I tried to contact the consulate directly after the second blue slip to find out why it wasn't noticed during the previous interview. They refused to put me through to anyone with any authority. They just told me what the blue slip said. I also sent numerous emails just to get the same answer. Her to travel to HCM isn't easy because she lives 8 hours away and gets car sick every time, not that they care. I hope that this embassy burns to the ground and if they decide to rebuild, I hope the new embassy will be run more efficiently and just.

[Rodney n. 0]

maybe its like a lot of other things i noticed while in viet nam. if you just give the right person the right amount of cash anything is possible. Government is so corrupt and maybe it has spread inside our embassy. maybe thats a little harsh, but it may be true also. Like many things it could be political also. i am trying to play devils advocate of course. any thoughts? close to the truth or way off base?

Rodney

Edited July 3, 2008 by Rodney n.

[martindart 0]

So what are we to do from here? I already left a message with my Congressman who contacted the CO last week. It sounded like per his email that all we had to do was submit the documents as requested by the blue slip and we would have our pink slip. It did not however turn out that way though. I don't know what the next step will be. ME is in the US and won't be back in HCM until 7/10. She is going to try and meet with one of his co-workers tomorrow morning to see what they can do.

I am not putting much stock in our senators and congressmen. First off, they do not weild the power to supercede the CO's decision. At best, they might convince a CO to hold the case for further review as some sort of political favor. Secondly, I have never heard of a senator getting involved. So far, all mine have done is sent me political spam on my voicemail about unrelated political endeavors. And third, this chief CO seems like the kind of guy who does not like to be second guessed. I am worried that IF my senator DID call him, it might hurt more than help.

Also, we all (those of us being currently denied) got that first blue slip where we thought we would just need to give some more proof. To me, that 1st one seems to just buy them some time to write up the refusal.

What to do now? Its pretty nebulous. I want to hire ME but my fiance is not so sure that he can help at this point. The bottom line is we have provided the embassy with all the proof we have. What more a lawyer can do is unknown. Hard to swallow the idea of spending thousands of dollars on a lawyer, when we may simply have no ther option than to re-apply in the end.

As a K-129 petitioner who’s petition was sent back to the service center that approved it.

I want to say; I did win my case and the petition was REAFIRMED and sent back to HCMC for another interview. After nearly a 2 year, battle I feel the consulate fears most is old business.

Having a reaffirmed petition back on the desk of someone desk inside that or any other consulate for that matter put that consulate on notice the USCIS is aware that many petition are being sent back to USA and many are being sent back again as reaffirmed. If petitioners would fight their returned petitions rather than filing a new K-129, which, I feel the consulate prefers.

The issue here is to give all petitioners the prima fascia right that the petitions will be given due process and consideration; and that any reasonable burden of doubt go in favor of the petition (as all consulate officers are directed to take this position) but don’t. The Staff at the Consulate in HCMC are overwhelmed daily. Blue sheeting and green sheeting people and including RFE (request for evidence) AR, (administrative review) “I feel” are all stall tactics that buys time for consular staff, unfortunately at the expense and hardship of petitioners and beneficiary lives.

When I found out my petition was being sent back to USA I said to myself, ok, I am selling all my stuff and moving to Vietnam to do whatever… soon thereafter I said again… NOT, I am staying and fighting for my true and sincere relationship as I planned.

The time it takes for the petition to be sent back to USA is about the same time it is to challenge the CO findings and win a reaffirmed petition, then, that same petition/application “I paid for” is sent back and soon knocking on the Visa Unit door (Here I am again!) Appears to me, With enough reaffirmed petitions sent back it will raise the issue before USCIS to ask, or investigate as to why are so many of these K-129 petition are being sent back to us and being denied for unnecessary reason(s)

For us, The CO findings came back by The Vietnamese Embassy in Washington DC, and after my reading the form letter it did not seem to “me” that a reasonable person would conclude a denial was in order. The list of reason(s) for the denial must be SPECIFIC once knowing the reason(s) it is then easy to rebut the consular officers finding and win the reaffirmed petition.

Do not file a RFI (request for information) under the freedom of information act because that will really delay the process. Should your petition be sent back to the USA, hope in not over but the beginning of the fight for your love just dig in and wait.

Any who,

This was my choice in how I handled having my petition sent back to USA. “I felt,” Whatever the reason for the denial would only haunt the new petition because you’re in the system and if you don’t change or overcome the CO findings what is to say they wont use those same reason for denial of the new petition/interview again. Perhaps procedures have change. I do not know, but do your homework and stay current.

I am sharing my experience and my own personal feelings on this issue (hopefully) all goes well for you in this journey for you and the decision(s) you make.

Good luck

Don

[Hesham&Tanya 0]

Im so sorry, I will keep u in my prayers! Good Luck! I hope someone is able to help, and along with your undieing efforts get this matter resolved..

Best Wishes..

[J & Q 0]

Sorry to hear the bad news. My fiancee has her interview in july and i have plenty of evidence, but i was also introduced by a family member. i was introduced by her aunt, who i have been friends with for a while. she didnt initiate the relationship though i did, but am not sure if that matters. i was looking though some photo albums and saw vans picture and wanted to meet her. she had a bf at the time so i had to wait a few months, but it has worked out good so far. hope you can get everything cleared up soon.

rodney

Please keep in touch. It looks like this may be a long road ahead of some of us. It makes me so angry how we are being treated, hard working American honest citizens such as ourselves.

[J & Q 0]

My heart goes out to all of you. It sounds like you are doing everything you can at this point. I would contact the ACLU like Matt suggested. They need a good, old fashioned class action suit against them.

I am in the process of drafting up a letter to send to them in hopes that it will put this CO in the spot light due to his harsh and unfair treatment of those of us who have been treated unfairly. I would suggest anyone else that has a LEGITIMATE case and has been treated unfairly to contact them as well. You can contact them at http://www.aclu.org/affiliates/.

Get involved

[Teacher Mark 53]

My heart goes out to all of you. It sounds like you are doing everything you can at this point. I would contact the ACLU like Matt suggested. They need a good, old fashioned class action suit against them.

I am in the process of drafting up a letter to send to them in hopes that it will put this CO in the spot light due to his harsh and unfair treatment of those of us who have been treated unfairly. I would suggest anyone else that has a LEGITIMATE case and has been treated unfairly to contact them as well. You can contact them at http://www.aclu.org/affiliates/.

Get involved

Bingo! I don't have a legitimate grip at this point. There are several posting in this topic that do.

[PeterFB 0]

We're sorry that lately there's been a lot of blue slips from VJers.

However I think you need to understand that you're dealing with a bureaucracy. The HCMC Consulate is no different from the IRS or your local city department of zoning. If you don't follow their rules, they throw your paperwork back at you until you fix what is wrong. Then they look at it again starting from where they left off. They don't go thru your paperwork and tell you everything that's wrong. That's not their job. Their job is to return the paperwork at the first sign of a problem. It's a stupid practice but it's the way the US/State/local governments work. They don't work like a private business. If they were a private business operating like this then they'd be out of business years ago. If you haven't dealt with the any level of the government in the US then you would think HCMC is crazy, unfair and needs an overhall.

In HCMC Consulate, it's usually too late to at the interview to clarify issues that your original I-129f brought up. These issues could be simple things like forgetting to include the chat room where you met, not having the original email of introduction between you and your fiancee (which we didn't have btw) which you didn't explain or provide evidence for. They don't want to ask your fiancee or you about it at the interview, the procedure is to give a blue slip, then see if the evidence sunmitted in response to the blue slip is enough to satisfy the blue slip then look at your case from the point where the blue slip was given. If your case didn't include any other issues such as no credit slip for your plane trip, relative info to make sure everything is legit, etc and If your fiancee didn't say anything wrong at the interview, ie get dates wrong, or names, etc then you will get your pink slip. The more issues the Consulate has with your case the more likely it could get sent back to the US.

The reason for being so cold heared? They are dealing with a huge amount of cases because this is the number one K1 visa place in the world at least in 2004. (The number of K1 fiance (e) aplicaltions continues to rapidly increase, from 2,390 in 2000 to 7,840 in 2004 according to the 2004 Inspection Report on Hanoi and HCMC). If that rate of increase is constant that means they are dealing with somewhere around 15,000 cases now. If you had 100 cases a day to deal with, you'd pass the time consuming ones on (give blue slips and send back to the US) instead of taking the time to deal with them. Not right but it's human nature when overworked. It's your job to make it easy for them not hard, don't give them a reason to give you a blue slip.

I understand that this is your loved one and your future they're dealling with, not a permit to build a backyard fence so it is very emotional. Just remember, the HCMC Consulate only wants to make sure the K1 Visa it grants is a valid.

If you persist you will prevail. Dave_Thao are a good example of that.

We hope everyone presently with blues slips/return to the USCIS, etc get their cases resolved quickly and fairly.

Peter and Thi

I-129F Sent : 2007-05-26

I-129F NOA1 : 2007-06-11

I-129F RFE(s) :

RFE Reply(s) :

I-129F NOA2 : 2007-10-26

Touched: 2007-11-02

NVC Recieved: 2007-11-16

Consulate recieved ??????

Packet 3 sent 2007-12-11

Packet 3 received 2007-12-24

Packet 3 returned 2007-12-28

Packet 4 sent 2008-1-14

Email Reply with Interview Date 2008-1-23

Interview Date 2008-2-27

Passed Interview 2008-02-27

Visa Pick Up Date 2008-3-05

Received Visa 2008-2-29 (called to pick up earlier)

POE 2008-3-05 Los Angeles

Wedding 2008-4-26

[J & Q 0]

We're sorry that lately there's been a lot of blue slips from VJers.

However I think you need to understand that you're dealing with a bureaucracy. The HCMC Consulate is no different from the IRS or your local city department of zoning. If you don't follow their rules, they throw your paperwork back at you until you fix what is wrong. Then they look at it again starting from where they left off. They don't go thru your paperwork and tell you everything that's wrong. That's not their job. Their job is to return the paperwork at the first sign of a problem. It's a stupid practice but it's the way the US/State/local governments work. They don't work like a private business. If they were a private business operating like this then they'd be out of business years ago. If you haven't dealt with the any level of the government in the US then you would think HCMC is crazy, unfair and needs an overhall.

In HCMC Consulate, it's usually too late to at the interview to clarify issues that your original I-129f brought up. These issues could be simple things like forgetting to include the chat room where you met, not having the original email of introduction between you and your fiancee (which we didn't have btw) which you didn't explain or provide evidence for. They don't want to ask your fiancee or you about it at the interview, the procedure is to give a blue slip, then see if the evidence sunmitted in response to the blue slip is enough to satisfy the blue slip then look at your case from the point where the blue slip was given. If your case didn't include any other issues such as no credit slip for your plane trip, relative info to make sure everything is legit, etc and If your fiancee didn't say anything wrong at the interview, ie get dates wrong, or names, etc then you will get your pink slip. The more issues the Consulate has with your case the more likely it could get sent back to the US.

The reason for being so cold heared? They are dealing with a huge amount of cases because this is the number one K1 visa place in the world at least in 2004. (The number of K1 fiance (e) aplicaltions continues to rapidly increase, from 2,390 in 2000 to 7,840 in 2004 according to the 2004 Inspection Report on Hanoi and HCMC). If that rate of increase is constant that means they are dealing with somewhere around 15,000 cases now. If you had 100 cases a day to deal with, you'd pass the time consuming ones on (give blue slips and send back to the US) instead of taking the time to deal with them. Not right but it's human nature when overworked. It's your job to make it easy for them not hard, don't give them a reason to give you a blue slip.

I understand that this is your loved one and your future they're dealling with, not a permit to build a backyard fence so it is very emotional. Just remember, the HCMC Consulate only wants to make sure the K1 Visa it grants is a valid.

If you persist you will prevail. Dave_Thao are a good example of that.

We hope everyone presently with blues slips/return to the USCIS, etc get their cases resolved quickly and fairly.

Peter and Thi

I-129F Sent : 2007-05-26

I-129F NOA1 : 2007-06-11

I-129F RFE(s) :

RFE Reply(s) :

I-129F NOA2 : 2007-10-26

Touched: 2007-11-02

NVC Recieved: 2007-11-16

Consulate recieved ??????

Packet 3 sent 2007-12-11

Packet 3 received 2007-12-24

Packet 3 returned 2007-12-28

Packet 4 sent 2008-1-14

Email Reply with Interview Date 2008-1-23

Interview Date 2008-2-27

Passed Interview 2008-02-27

Visa Pick Up Date 2008-3-05

Received Visa 2008-2-29 (called to pick up earlier)

POE 2008-3-05 Los Angeles

Wedding 2008-4-26

Peter,

I understand that the consulate does not have an easy job and is overwhelmed with petitions. If the consulate is that overwhelmed they should either cut back on petitions, staff up for the higher demand of petitions, or step down from their position. It really is not fare to those of us who want a equal and just decision and are not getting that. They raised the cost of the application fees back in August 2007 so what are these fees going towards? The consulate does not even give you the option of explaining yourself if they do not agree with something. Where is Due Process in this whole thing? At least with the state or local officials, there is Due Process. Is this America that they are representing or have they been in Vietnam for so long that they forgot what America stands for and the simple freedoms that we take for granted? I truly believe that something needs to be done about the whole process here in Vietnam. Perhaps polygraph testing should be the new method to weed out fraudulent petitions.

Edited July 5, 2008 by J & Q

[PeterFB 0]

Peter,

I understand that the consulate does not have an easy job and is overwhelmed with petitions. If the consulate is that overwhelmed they should either cut back on petitions, staff up for the higher demand of petitions, or step down from their position. It really is not fare to those of us who want a equal and just decision and are not getting that. They raised the cost of the application fees back in August 2007 so what are these fees going towards? The consulate does not even give you the option of explaining yourself if they do not agree with something. Where is Due Process in this whole thing? At least with the state or local officials, there is Due Process. Is this America that they are representing or have they been in Vietnam for so long that they forgot what America stands for and the simple freedoms that we take for granted? I truly believe that something needs to be done about the whole process here in Vietnam. Perhaps polygraph testing should be the new method to weed out fraudulent petitions.

J & Q

While I agree that bureaucracry at any level of government should be fixed, the problem is American voters don't vote for taxes or honest politicans (usually) so little gets fixed. Also the burearucracy (with their unions) resist all change to a performance based job placement/review. Once hired most bureaucrats are there until they quit or die, regardless of whether or not they are qualified to do their jobs or do their jobs properly.

The new fees are suppose to help by hiring more people, buying more equipment so the process gets better. However the people in charge have a different mindset than the rest of us who are employed by a private company or in business for themselves. Therefore I'm skeptical that anything will really change until the President, Secretary of State, Congress and the rest of the heads of the bureaucracy decide to change the process. This comes under the heading of Immigration reform which we know is a "hot button" topic that causes most elected officials to avoid or make meaningless attempts at reform. The American general population doesn't help because they think it's about illegal aliens not about fixing the legal immigration problems.

The legal immigration laws are based on the thinking of 1900s America not based on the realities of

21st century America. The world is much smaller than it was, better educated and with a lot more communication between people yet most governments still act like it takes weeks to travel anywhere and weeks for information to travel between people.

What can we do about this mess?

We have to take care of ourselves by arming ourselves with the best information we can about the process, prepare the best possible case and plan for the worst. Waiting for the US people to vote for officals who will fix this process, demanding them to do this and apply continious review and pressure to insure this gets done isn't going to help any of us now. We should do what we can to change the system of course but in the meantime, we help each other with the most information we can get about how HCMC Consulate decides our cases.

For what I've seen here, your I-129f not the evidence at the interview is most important to how the HCMC Consulate decides your case. What can help us all the best with this is to share what we did right and wrong.

In my case, I made sure to address any issuse I thought the Consulate would be a reason for a denial. I went through our relationship listing everything: I had decided to meet Vietnamese women in the US not Vietnam but had lots of Vietnamese women from Vietnam respond to my Vietsingle profile. Thi was one that responded to my prolife. Thi and I didn't keep any of our first emails. I'm much older than she is. She barely cold write in English. I don't speak Vietnamese tho I have clients who are Vietnamese. They never wanted to help me learn. Thi and I had only known each other for 8 months before we met in person and then got engaged within a week of meeting. I stayed with her sister's family not a hotel. I had sent her money for a computer to test her intentions (hoping it would help our relationship by not having to wait for emails and be able to video/audio chat). I had many of my friends telling me she was just trying to get money or a green card from me.

So I set about answering these issues in the I-129f because the Consulate has the most time to study that. They have almost no time at the interview. They have to make up 80-90% of their decision on the petition submitted. My I-129f #18 statement plus the proof of ongoing relationship statement was I presented these problems and answered them in my own words backed up with all the evidence I could get. When there was little or none evidence, I explained why that was. Any differences between evidence was explained, for example in my case my flight to HCMC was delayed by 6 hours which cause the visa stamp to be difference than the actual time I landed in HCMC and what my itnerary/ plane tickets stated. So I wrote a statement explaining that with vouchers and a apology letter from United.

I hope this helps anyone who is now in the process of submitting their I-129f because these discussions should shed light on what works and what should be avoided.

To those who are waiting for the Head of the Consulate and Mark Ellis to return, I hope Mark gets back in time to stop the Consulate and get everyone their visa.

Peter and Thi

I-129F Sent : 2007-05-26

I-129F NOA1 : 2007-06-11

I-129F RFE(s) :

RFE Reply(s) :

I-129F NOA2 : 2007-10-26

Touched: 2007-11-02

NVC Recieved: 2007-11-16

Consulate recieved ??????

Packet 3 sent 2007-12-11

Packet 3 received 2007-12-24

Packet 3 returned 2007-12-28

Packet 4 sent 2008-1-14

Email Reply with Interview Date 2008-1-23

Interview Date 2008-2-27

Passed Interview 2008-02-27

Visa Pick Up Date 2008-3-05

Received Visa 2008-2-29 (called to pick up earlier)

POE 2008-3-05 Los Angeles

Wedding 2008-4-26