Text message to Russia and Ukraine

[Brad and Vika 129]

So there is such thingy as "mail-order bride catalog"? I heard about some agencies in Kiev, but at that scale... Wow

You have to remember, that was over 10 years ago. I never saw the catalog and I have heard it mentioned on several forums in the past.

If there's one out there I have no clue where or what agency would have one.I've got a Russian woman now that I haven't figured out yet so I would definitely not be on the hunt for another one.

bruc

Lol, my fiance says the same thing. He just told me today the best way to deal with us, Slavic woman, is just ignoring those weird culture things. Boy, is he wrong... Well, I guess I have a lifetime to show that to him.

My fiance told me one time that I was in for a new experience when they get here to American with me. I wanted to tell her that SHE was already a new experience for me but since I was there and not here I kept my mouth shut. I would probably keep my mouth shut here too. I told here one time very nicely that sometimes I didn't understand some of the way she did things...she replied to me that I was a man and she understood everything I did

I think your fiance and myself are in for a heap of trouble when you girls arrive to us.

bruce

My fiance is a very lucky man. He gets an "americanized" me, since I did spend couple years in the States. And to you, I wish all the best. Trust me, there will be many funny "culture" things to experience. From what I hear Russian women make good wives, just like us Ukrainians... must be similar Slavic origin or smth

I agree. My Viktoria spent some time in America too, and I feel very lucky that she already likes it here and will have less of a shock when she comes back with me. I try hard to understand cultural differences, but sometimes I am confounded. Her intense devotion to, and support expectations for, her extended family are tough to understand. In America I think we value independence and individuality so much that the thought of closely relying on family for help indefinitely is not common. All off the OP subject.

[Ree 9]

My fiance' has Kyivstar, and through AT&T we text ALOT! Is there some similar website for Kyivstar?

http://www.kyivstar.ua/en/sms/

I always used this site for sending SMS when I lived in Ukraine and had Kyivstar.

[Brad and Vika 129]

My fiance' has Kyivstar, and through AT&T we text ALOT! Is there some similar website for Kyivstar?

http://www.kyivstar.ua/en/sms/

I always used this site for sending SMS when I lived in Ukraine and had Kyivstar.

I found the site and used it several times today. Thank you VERY much!!!

[Ree 9]

I found the site and used it several times today. Thank you VERY much!!!

You are welcome

[slim 1,525]

I try hard to understand cultural differences, but sometimes I am confounded. Her intense devotion to, and support expectations for, her extended family are tough to understand. In America I think we value independence and individuality so much that the thought of closely relying on family for help indefinitely is not common. All off the OP subject.

In America it's long been established that it's your own responsibility to provide for your own retirement. The system is such that it's expected that you'll build wealth your entire life. If you don't, well, it's not your kids' responsibility to take care of you, you should've planned better.

In most places abroad, it's expected that you'll spend most of your wealth on taking care of your family so it then becomes your family's responsibility to "pay you back" by taking care of you in old age.

I don't think it's so much an "independence" thing as much as just a different system. Our system is one that individuals are almost always free from familial obligations past a certain point. (Age 18 is common, sometimes 24 if going through school.) And even if the obligations extend past that point, they almost always go down the family tree, not up.

The key to keeping the international marriage working in relation to parents/family abroad is to take a "foreign" approach to it. "If you were still there, you'd only be giving them this much, right?" Plus, there are obligations to building wealth here that don't stop just because the family back home needs money. It's hard enough for the family here to make it.

[Brad and Vika 129]

I try hard to understand cultural differences, but sometimes I am confounded. Her intense devotion to, and support expectations for, her extended family are tough to understand. In America I think we value independence and individuality so much that the thought of closely relying on family for help indefinitely is not common. All off the OP subject.

In America it's long been established that it's your own responsibility to provide for your own retirement. The system is such that it's expected that you'll build wealth your entire life. If you don't, well, it's not your kids' responsibility to take care of you, you should've planned better.

In most places abroad, it's expected that you'll spend most of your wealth on taking care of your family so it then becomes your family's responsibility to "pay you back" by taking care of you in old age.

I don't think it's so much an "independence" thing as much as just a different system. Our system is one that individuals are almost always free from familial obligations past a certain point. (Age 18 is common, sometimes 24 if going through school.) And even if the obligations extend past that point, they almost always go down the family tree, not up.

The key to keeping the international marriage working in relation to parents/family abroad is to take a "foreign" approach to it. "If you were still there, you'd only be giving them this much, right?" Plus, there are obligations to building wealth here that don't stop just because the family back home needs money. It's hard enough for the family here to make it.

I don't understand what you mean by foreign approach. It seems to me that she (and a couple of other women I know from Eastern Europe) all want to send every cent they can manage back to Ukraine. I applaud the loyalty to family, but as you correctly point out, it is difficult enough for the family here to make it. I have obligations that are in the US (parents and kids).

A less serious example would be the Eastern European attitude towards flowers. Here in America, it is cliche' to show up early in the relationship with flowers (guy in a new suit, box of candy, etc.). Not wanting to appear weak or anything, of course I didn't bring flowers the first date or two. She tactfully (I like you without flowers... but let me tell you something about Slavic girls) let me know that flowers were VERY MUCH appreciated, and almost necessary to demonstrate a serious attitude. Too funny

Please understand that she is my other half, and I want her to be comfortable and happy. Some of this stuff we laugh about, but the support thing seems to be an issue until there are children. It runs both ways too Her family let me know that they want and expect to see much more of me, and get to know me well. The warmth, interest, and hospitality they show me always catches me by surprise.

So, help me out with the foreign attitude.

Edited July 9, 2008 by Brad and Vika

[slim 1,525]

So, help me out with the foreign attitude.

Indifference. That seems to be about the best way I can sum it up. If it's something that affects her, it's now become the center of the universe. But, if it's something affecting you, it doesn't really matter. Her parents need money back home, you have to scrape together every cent. Your parents need money here, well, she needs to get her hair done and you promised her last week she could get it done so, sorry mom, no money.

What I mean by the "foreign attitude" about sending money back home is this - How much money would she be able to give them if she were still living/working in Ukraine? Just because she married an American guy and is now making all that "big money" doesn't mean their lives should change too. Whatever "extra" money she's making here in the U.S. is probably, for the most part, needed here. If she happens to have "extra" money after paying all the bills here, saving for retirement, children's college funds, etc. then maybe she could spare some to send back to mom and dad. But, I suspect any "extra" money she has is probably either "your" money or money that she's making herself and counting as money she could send back home all the while forgetting how much is needed here.

I don't know your exact situation but I'll elaborate a little on mine. I work and pay 100% of our bills. Did so since my wife got here. No problem there because I invited her to come here and share her life together with me. However, I make just enough to pay our bills. That's it. Very early on I explained to her how finances work here in America and if she wanted "extra" stuff like a car and going places, etc., that she would have to work too and contribute to our household income or else we (she) wouldn't be able to afford anything other than necessities. She's since started working and bringing in some money too but her math is a little fuzzy. Her job only partially off-sets the monthly expenses but yet she continues to consider money from her check as "her" "extra" money because as the husband I should be paying for 100% of the bills and everything else. That frees up her money for things like getting her hair done, buying expensive cosmetics, eating dinners at nice restaurants, etc. And we do some of that, but, only AFTER all the bills are paid.

Now, we don't have to send money home (yet) because her mother is still self-sufficient. However, if that were to change, I would have to give her two options -

1. You send the money that you would "theoretically" be able to give your mother if you were back home

2. You pay for 50% of everything here and then "if" you have any extra money you can send her whatever you want

The first option is going to be her choice because invariably she's (excluding AKDiver's wife here, who is rolling) not going to be able to foot 50% of your monthly expenses on her wages and even if she can there's no way she's going to spend "her" money on her own mom (there's that indifference I was talking about) so she'll tap you to scrape together some conjured-up figure to send home. When you do it, do some research on what she would earn, what her expenses would be, and then figure out what she would be able to give to her mom. Whatever that is, it's going to be infinitely smaller than what she's requesting now.

I've heard of guys sending $500+ back home each month. That's flippin crazy! Well, that is, unless it's "her" $500/month!

I understand they are your family now and you should "help" them out a little. But, they didn't hit the freakin lotto and if your wife were to be forced to spend her own money (not "your's") I would venture to say it would be a lot less. That's the "foreign attitude" when it comes to money.

There is the whole housing issue (if they'd be living with her) and old age (she'd be cooking for them, bathing them), etc., so if you're facing that, it may complicate things. But, if it's one of those, "We should send my parents some money because they're old and we're so rich" things, NO WAY! Put the ball in her court to send "her" money and see how generous she is then.

[slim 1,525]

Just noticed that you only recently filed for K-1 and are relatively new to the whole process.

Forget I said anything! Sunshine and puppy dogs, love is great!

Really though, if you're already being hit up for money to support her family..... you need to have a serious financial talk with her (and maybe her family too) because that's not going to go away and it's only going to get worse once she's here.

Weigh it heavily. I'm not saying you should throw in the towel, I'm just saying you should make sure she understands your financial situation and there are no other "red flags." A lot of times things like this, along with other warning signs, are overlooked because of the sunshine and puppy dogs.

This is a red flag. Don't ignore it.

If you can work through it, great! Just be aware that it exists.

[Brad and Vika 129]

Just noticed that you only recently filed for K-1 and are relatively new to the whole process.

Forget I said anything! Sunshine and puppy dogs, love is great!

Really though, if you're already being hit up for money to support her family..... you need to have a serious financial talk with her (and maybe her family too) because that's not going to go away and it's only going to get worse once she's here.

Weigh it heavily. I'm not saying you should throw in the towel, I'm just saying you should make sure she understands your financial situation and there are no other "red flags." A lot of times things like this, along with other warning signs, are overlooked because of the sunshine and puppy dogs.

This is a red flag. Don't ignore it.

If you can work through it, great! Just be aware that it exists.

Thanks again for the advice. She hasn't really put a figure out there, apparently because she doesn't want to be locked into one. Also, she says it is not normal for unmarried people to talk details about their families finances (their own finances are OK - but questions are still rude, and she hasn't asked me). The issue is that when her mom retires in two years, she wants to replace that income so mom doesn't have to get a job while on a pension. I think the figure is about $300 per month. That number and timetable are OK with me, but I also get the sense that the "help" should begin immediately. To add to the issue, her best girlfriend here in the States has that sort of deal. Hubby pays for everything, and all of wifey's wages go to Ukraine (about $500 per month). Among my friends who married girls from Eastern Europe, most of them find this to be an issue until they have kids. Then the focus seems to shift to the nuclear family a bit.

Also for the sake of clarity, I do not send her money for support of her or family now. I don't send anything unless I ask her to do something, like meet me at the airport or buy train tickets. In fact, she has never asked me for anything like family support, saying only that she wants to work when she gets here primarily to help her parents. It seems normal to me that she doesn't want them to suffer because she is far away and can't contribute the way she would otherwise. I understand the wage and work situation here though, and immediate help is likely to be funded by me. My heartburn is about not having firm numbers and open discussions about it. Maybe it is too soon? Maybe (heavy sigh) I have to just keep at the subject until we are both clear.

To your earlier point, I am new to this process today. I am however no stranger to Eastern Europe, and have traveled all over, done business, etc. I also dated Russian speaking women here and in Europe for years, so the issues aren't completely new to me. I have just never had to deal with any of them personally before. I appreciate the insight of all who are through the visa stage of the process.