Questions about raising kids from Obama thread

[nu7015 0]

What is your prefered alternative?

O, and if God is your father, do you trust Him enough to submit to His Will?

Peace and being present with yourself and those around you, in other words, being with God. Like I mentioned before, religion can get you there and it can also take you away from being there.

Thank you for that. May I ask, does your belief system have guidelines, limits, directives?

Very very much. It's quite similar to Islam in many ways.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Then, why did you see what I posted about humility as oppressive?

Edited June 28, 2008 by Virtual wife

[tenderheartusa79 14]

i disagree i think its up to the children as they grow older to make their own decisions.my fiance is egyptian and it took a long time but we agreed if they wanted to convert to my religion.its their free will.you cant control children all their lives.you can only guide them.and pray for the best for them.if they choose to convert its on them.its ok.God still loves us no matter what.he will never disown his children.and i also think that if you want to marry a christian then its just love no matter what your religion is.i know about the honor thing.but we dont want to control our children .and the other muslims can do what they want .but we agreed our children will have free will.i know this may start a fight and i hope and pray it dont.i also know there is alot of people here who may agree with me.i hope i am not alone.i am just lucky to have a man who wants our life good.and fair to our children God bless you all and dont take this to heart and think i am a bad person.well we are not just want to be fair in our culture.i give and take just like him.and we compromise.have a wonderful day

i respect you and your man but now we talking about islamic culture .it is not accpeted in islam that kids of muslim father be anything but muslim. and how the childern will choose thier own religion while they are young or you talking about let them grow with no religion till they can understand and choose?

Sorry but that s not true in some cases...i guess it depends on what u view as a muslim or how you view them...some people believe in freedom of choice rather than labeling

i agree with free of choice but muslims would like thier kids to be muslims tooor it will bring alot of fights later . it is very clear that islamic culture and religion state that and i see ur SO is Egyptian ask him how he will feel if his own kids raised as anything other than islam and how his familly will feel

i think you misunderstand her .

cause my fiancee know that the children will born Muslims like me and i will teach them about Islam for sure and take them with me to the mosque ....(so they will be muslins)

all what she was talking about it at some pionts when they will be old enough maybe when they will be adults and if they want to convert we will not force them .actually you can't force anyone to convert to another religion or you can't force anyone to don't convert to another religion.

thats what she was talking about .

Edited June 28, 2008 by tenderheart197900

[♥JP♥ 5]

i disagree i think its up to the children as they grow older to make their own decisions.my fiance is egyptian and it took a long time but we agreed if they wanted to convert to my religion.its their free will.you cant control children all their lives.you can only guide them.and pray for the best for them.if they choose to convert its on them.its ok.God still loves us no matter what.he will never disown his children.and i also think that if you want to marry a christian then its just love no matter what your religion is.i know about the honor thing.but we dont want to control our children .and the other muslims can do what they want .but we agreed our children will have free will.i know this may start a fight and i hope and pray it dont.i also know there is alot of people here who may agree with me.i hope i am not alone.i am just lucky to have a man who wants our life good.and fair to our children God bless you all and dont take this to heart and think i am a bad person.well we are not just want to be fair in our culture.i give and take just like him.and we compromise.have a wonderful day

i respect you and your man but now we talking about islamic culture .it is not accpeted in islam that kids of muslim father be anything but muslim. and how the childern will choose thier own religion while they are young or you talking about let them grow with no religion till they can understand and choose?

Sorry but that s not true in some cases...i guess it depends on what u view as a muslim or how you view them...some people believe in freedom of choice rather than labeling

i agree with free of choice but muslims would like thier kids to be muslims tooor it will bring alot of fights later . it is very clear that islamic culture and religion state that and i see ur SO is Egyptian ask him how he will feel if his own kids raised as anything other than islam and how his familly will feel

i think you misunderstand her .

cause my fiancee know that the children will born Muslims like me and i will teach them about Islam for sure and take them with me to the mosque ....(so they will be muslins)

all what she was talking about it at some pionts when they will be old enough maybe when they will be adults and if they want to convert we will not force them .actually you can't force anyone to convert to another religion or you can't force anyone to don't convert to another religion.

thats what she was talking about .

I don't believe Mohammed missed the point at all. I think we are all aware that we can't control what our children do when they are grown. This conversation is more focused about changing a marriage contract to reflect that a muslim man will allow his child to be raised in another religion. Its very clear that won't happen. As VW and Mohammed have said, this is deep rooted in arab culture. Its not just muslims that observe this either.

That doesn't mean things don't happen out of the norm, but what Mohammed is talking is the norm and is what is accepted by the culture and society in Egypt and most MENA countries. I plan to raise my children as Christians and baptize them, however I can't guarantee that somehwere down the road they won't become buddhists. However I don't plan on raising them in any other religion.

[mybackpages 0]

Does it seem extreme to be looked down upon, disowned, families torn apart, etc. because of religion? I would think that religion would bring people together, regardless of choices among family members. Isn't that what religion teaches us; acceptance, tolerance, forgiveness, love? Something seems to be missing if there are such harsh consequences for choosing outside a religion.

that has been my intuitive sense as well but from what I'm learning here it's not just religion it's a whole culture of arab traditions.

And you will find it is this way in every Muslim majority nation- from North Africa to Indonesia. It happens here among american Muslims.

[mohamed and trina 0]

i still believe you cant control your children.and i wont.i mean we wont with our children.againi say if my child ever says mom i want to be christian.we will not refuse that even though the father will be muslim.or if we have a girl.and she will ask me mom i want to marry a christian man.we will not refuse her.love is love no matter what religion.again i say we are all Gods children.some religions are so controlling.i am christian and he is a muslim.and yeah my mom had doubts at first.my family did.but they learned to love him.they had hard feelings about him livivng so far away.and also being a muslim.and me and mohamed had had our fights about alot of things about religion.people and friends religion is not that way.who is better then who.what religion will be in heaven which will not.who goes to hell.no one knows but our father in heaven.againnnnnnnn he knows our hearts and lives and souls.we are here to live a good life for God.and live as he wants us to in a Godly manner.and to believe and worship in his name.friends it dont matter what religion because at the end it is not up to us who goes.its up to God and how we lived our lives for him.if you are christian or muslim.lets not argue or fight about religion.we all just want to live in peace and a life for God.so it dont matter what our children will be as long as it is a godly believer.we the believers will be with our father.God bless you all and have a wonderful day

[Sofiyya 1,687]

i think you misunderstand her .

cause my fiancee know that the children will born Muslims like me and i will teach them about Islam for sure and take them with me to the mosque ....(so they will be muslins)

all what she was talking about it at some pionts when they will be old enough maybe when they will be adults and if they want to convert we will not force them .actually you can't force anyone to convert to another religion or you can't force anyone to don't convert to another religion.

thats what she was talking about .

Tenderheart, your fiancee was born Muslim, too, but she isn't Muslim. We know that people born Muslim, even in Muslim families, don't become Muslim just because they're parents are, anymore than people become Christian or Jewish just because their parents were. This is even true of children, who may go to masjid or temple or church and NEVER be what their parents are, or a parent is.

In free societies like the US, this is even more true. Children can choose to believe other than their parents, or one parent's beliefs. That is why scholars are against Muslims marrying non-Muslims in the west because the likihood of their children rejecting Islam is high, and even moreso if the father is Muslim and not the mother. When you have parents who are of competing faiths, the majority faith or no faith at all, is more likely to win out. Even in majority Muslim or majority Christian countries, many give only lip service to being part of the faith. They are, in practice, cultural Christians or cultural Muslims; their actual practice is secular.

[Staashi 371]

[quote name='Olivia*' post='1969946' date='Jun 27 2008, 04:47 PM'

It's more of Arab tradition than Islamic law. Same would be true if you were Catholic. Right? Catholics must raise their children catholic?

Well, as a practicing Catholic, we are supposed to only marry practicing Catholics, but if we choose to marry someone who is not of our faith, that person has to honor that we are free to practice our faith and that any children we have as part of our union will be raised as Catholics. It is called "disparity of worship" and it is pretty intense...

Disparity of worship or disparity of cult (Disparitas Cultus) is a diriment impediment in Roman Catholic canon law: a reason why a marriage can not be validly contracted without a dispensation, stemming from one person being certainly baptized, and the other certainly not baptized.

The reasons for this impediment is that the marriage will not be a sacrament with one spouse unbaptized, that the unbaptized person's views on marriage may be incompatible with the Catholic views, and that such a marriage may hinder the practice of religion on part of the Catholic spouse and any children.

Disparity of worship does not affect the marriage of a Catholic or baptized non-Catholic with one whose baptism, even after careful investigation concerning the baptismal ceremony or its validity, remains doubtful. Neither does it in any way influence the marriage of two who, after diligent examination, are still considered doubtfully baptized.

A marriage between a Catholic and another, baptized person not a Catholic, is a mixed marriage. Though sometimes referred to by this term, the permission of the bishop is required merely to make the union licit; the marriage is valid but illicit without it.

Disparity of worship can be dispensed for grave reasons, and on the promises (usually written) from the spouses: the unbaptized not to interfere with the spouse's practice of religion or the raising of the children in religion, the Catholic to practice the Catholic religion and raise the children in it.

[mybackpages 0]

Well, as a practicing Catholic, we are supposed to only marry practicing Catholics, but if we choose to marry someone who is not of our faith, that person has to honor that we are free to practice our faith and that any children we have as part of our union will be raised as Catholics. It is called "disparity of worship" and it is pretty intense...

Disparity of worship or disparity of cult (Disparitas Cultus) is a diriment impediment in Roman Catholic canon law: a reason why a marriage can not be validly contracted without a dispensation, stemming from one person being certainly baptized, and the other certainly not baptized.

The reasons for this impediment is that the marriage will not be a sacrament with one spouse unbaptized, that the unbaptized person's views on marriage may be incompatible with the Catholic views, and that such a marriage may hinder the practice of religion on part of the Catholic spouse and any children.

Disparity of worship does not affect the marriage of a Catholic or baptized non-Catholic with one whose baptism, even after careful investigation concerning the baptismal ceremony or its validity, remains doubtful. Neither does it in any way influence the marriage of two who, after diligent examination, are still considered doubtfully baptized.

A marriage between a Catholic and another, baptized person not a Catholic, is a mixed marriage. Though sometimes referred to by this term, the permission of the bishop is required merely to make the union licit; the marriage is valid but illicit without it.

Disparity of worship can be dispensed for grave reasons, and on the promises (usually written) from the spouses: the unbaptized not to interfere with the spouse's practice of religion or the raising of the children in religion, the Catholic to practice the Catholic religion and raise the children in it.

Thanks for the clarification Staashi!

[mohamed N melinda 0]

i disagree i think its up to the children as they grow older to make their own decisions.my fiance is egyptian and it took a long time but we agreed if they wanted to convert to my religion.its their free will.you cant control children all their lives.you can only guide them.and pray for the best for them.if they choose to convert its on them.its ok.God still loves us no matter what.he will never disown his children.and i also think that if you want to marry a christian then its just love no matter what your religion is.i know about the honor thing.but we dont want to control our children .and the other muslims can do what they want .but we agreed our children will have free will.i know this may start a fight and i hope and pray it dont.i also know there is alot of people here who may agree with me.i hope i am not alone.i am just lucky to have a man who wants our life good.and fair to our children God bless you all and dont take this to heart and think i am a bad person.well we are not just want to be fair in our culture.i give and take just like him.and we compromise.have a wonderful day

i respect you and your man but now we talking about islamic culture .it is not accpeted in islam that kids of muslim father be anything but muslim. and how the childern will choose thier own religion while they are young or you talking about let them grow with no religion till they can understand and choose?

Sorry but that s not true in some cases...i guess it depends on what u view as a muslim or how you view them...some people believe in freedom of choice rather than labeling

i agree with free of choice but muslims would like thier kids to be muslims tooor it will bring alot of fights later . it is very clear that islamic culture and religion state that and i see ur SO is Egyptian ask him how he will feel if his own kids raised as anything other than islam and how his familly will feel

i think you misunderstand her .

cause my fiancee know that the children will born Muslims like me and i will teach them about Islam for sure and take them with me to the mosque ....(so they will be muslins)

all what she was talking about it at some pionts when they will be old enough maybe when they will be adults and if they want to convert we will not force them .actually you can't force anyone to convert to another religion or you can't force anyone to don't convert to another religion.

thats what she was talking about .

i agree no foce but not accept . will not accept them to convert as i wont accept daughter to date and has bf . it is same

i disagree i think its up to the children as they grow older to make their own decisions.my fiance is egyptian and it took a long time but we agreed if they wanted to convert to my religion.its their free will.you cant control children all their lives.you can only guide them.and pray for the best for them.if they choose to convert its on them.its ok.God still loves us no matter what.he will never disown his children.and i also think that if you want to marry a christian then its just love no matter what your religion is.i know about the honor thing.but we dont want to control our children .and the other muslims can do what they want .but we agreed our children will have free will.i know this may start a fight and i hope and pray it dont.i also know there is alot of people here who may agree with me.i hope i am not alone.i am just lucky to have a man who wants our life good.and fair to our children God bless you all and dont take this to heart and think i am a bad person.well we are not just want to be fair in our culture.i give and take just like him.and we compromise.have a wonderful day

i respect you and your man but now we talking about islamic culture .it is not accpeted in islam that kids of muslim father be anything but muslim. and how the childern will choose thier own religion while they are young or you talking about let them grow with no religion till they can understand and choose?

Sorry but that s not true in some cases...i guess it depends on what u view as a muslim or how you view them...some people believe in freedom of choice rather than labeling

i agree with free of choice but muslims would like thier kids to be muslims tooor it will bring alot of fights later . it is very clear that islamic culture and religion state that and i see ur SO is Egyptian ask him how he will feel if his own kids raised as anything other than islam and how his familly will feel

i think you misunderstand her .

cause my fiancee know that the children will born Muslims like me and i will teach them about Islam for sure and take them with me to the mosque ....(so they will be muslins)

all what she was talking about it at some pionts when they will be old enough maybe when they will be adults and if they want to convert we will not force them .actually you can't force anyone to convert to another religion or you can't force anyone to don't convert to another religion.

thats what she was talking about .

I don't believe Mohammed missed the point at all. I think we are all aware that we can't control what our children do when they are grown. This conversation is more focused about changing a marriage contract to reflect that a muslim man will allow his child to be raised in another religion. Its very clear that won't happen. As VW and Mohammed have said, this is deep rooted in arab culture. Its not just muslims that observe this either.

That doesn't mean things don't happen out of the norm, but what Mohammed is talking is the norm and is what is accepted by the culture and society in Egypt and most MENA countries. I plan to raise my children as Christians and baptize them, however I can't guarantee that somehwere down the road they won't become buddhists. However I don't plan on raising them in any other religion.

u got it right . i was talking about the roots and tradition in general and sure every one will like to raise his kids on his own religion so the fights will start from here

[mohamed and trina 0]

ok think what u want

[mohamed N melinda 0]

ok think what u want

i already know what i want to do and i do it . u seem dont like when someone disagree with you even he was teling the truth

[Sofiyya 1,687]

i already know what i want to do and i do it . u seem dont like when someone disagree with you even he was teling the truth

Oh, what I could do with that . . .

But, I won't.

Edited June 28, 2008 by Virtual wife

[mohamed N melinda 0]

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[Staashi 371]

Thanks for the clarification Staashi!

You are welcome...just wanted to give my two little cents.