Questions about raising kids from Obama thread

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

I'm not a Muslim but I know that according to Islam if the Father is a Muslim then the offspring are Muslim and should be raised so. Conversion is not impossible and it looks like the Obama's brother recognizes that Barack is a convert Christian.

I am unsure when his mother divorced his father but that may have something to do with his conversion.

In Obama's books he admitted to being raised in Islam as a child and CNN investigated and reported that Obama went to a fundamentalist Muslim elementary schools till he was 6 in Indonesia.

Those being the facts I have questions.

If he's gone to this Christian church for the pass 20 years and he's roughly 45 then what was he for those other missing 14 years of his life between the time of when he was 6 and 25? Was he a Christian before that? What does he feel about Islam? How will his religion affect his presidency? How will his upbringing affect his Presidency? If he is not a racist and didn't agree with this line of thinking then why did he stay from the ages of 25-45, with that church, with that reverend, who he recently venomously denounced?

Accoding to his autobiography, in the intervening years he was agnostic as there is no mention of church going, spirituality or faith in anything but the most vague terms.

I have a feeling, also from reading the autobiography, that his interest in the church during that time was rather pragmatic and revolved around his work as an organizer.

I'm not a Muslim but I know that according to Islam if the Father is a Muslim then the offspring are Muslim and should be raised so. -Olivia*

I saw the same error in the article too. There is nothing in the Quran or the Sunnah of the Prophet that supports the claim that Islam passes thru the father. In fact, Allah says it's He and only He who determines a person's faith and guides who He may, as He may. This is repeated several times in the Quran, and one verse in particular states that our variety of beliefs is a test for us.

5.48 To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what God hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that

hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If God had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to God; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;

I realize that some of you are protagonists and anti-Islam agitators, but some are well meaning, but ill-informed. If Barack Obama was ever a Muslim, he is certainly not one now, so the problem you have with him is rooted in his flawed Christianity. Some time in the future, insha'allah, we will have a Muslim president, but it isn't that guy.

So does this means that it's not the biological father it passes from but the spiritual father? In some places I've read that we're all born Muslims and Allah is testing our faith?

Maybe the more important question for me is: If the father is Muslim and the Mother is not then the children don't have to be raised Muslim according to the fathers faith because the children aren't born Muslims because of the father?

So I never got an answer back from VW on this one but I really want to know it because it applies to me personally as well. Would someone please answer my last question to her?

If the father is Muslim and the Mother is not then the children don't have to be raised Muslim according to the fathers faith because the children aren't born Muslims because of the father?

Edited June 27, 2008 by Olivia*

[♥JP♥ 5]

Here is what I know and this applies to MENA. The children are always supposed to follow the father faith. That doesn't mean it always happens.

For example, a Muslim man can marry a Christian or Jewish woman without her converting to Islam. Their children will be Muslim. However a Muslim woman cannot marry a Christian or Jewish man because her children would take on the father's faith.

I know of many cases, where this has not happened this way. I'm not sure if this is a rule set by society or religion. Islam is not the only relgion that follows this in MENA, Christians obide by it as well. In Jordan, if Christian man wants to marry a Muslim woman, he must convert or there is no marriage. However, a Christian girl would not have to convert to marry a Muslim man but she would most likely be disowned by her family or worse.

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

Here is what I know and this applies to MENA. The children are always supposed to follow the father faith. That doesn't mean it always happens.

For example, a Muslim man can marry a Christian or Jewish woman without her converting to Islam. Their children will be Muslim. However a Muslim woman cannot marry a Christian or Jewish man because her children would take on the father's faith.

I know of many cases, where this has not happened this way. I'm not sure if this is a rule set by society or religion. Islam is not the only relgion that follows this in MENA, Christians obide by it as well. In Jordan, if Christian man wants to marry a Muslim woman, he must convert or there is no marriage. However, a Christian girl would not have to convert to marry a Muslim man but she would most likely be disowned by her family or worse.

So any child I had with him is supposed to be raised in his faith.

[mybackpages 0]

Here is what I know and this applies to MENA. The children are always supposed to follow the father faith. That doesn't mean it always happens.

For example, a Muslim man can marry a Christian or Jewish woman without her converting to Islam. Their children will be Muslim. However a Muslim woman cannot marry a Christian or Jewish man because her children would take on the father's faith.

I know of many cases, where this has not happened this way. I'm not sure if this is a rule set by society or religion. Islam is not the only relgion that follows this in MENA, Christians obide by it as well. In Jordan, if Christian man wants to marry a Muslim woman, he must convert or there is no marriage. However, a Christian girl would not have to convert to marry a Muslim man but she would most likely be disowned by her family or worse.

So any child I had with him is supposed to be raised in his faith.

It's more of Arab tradition than Islamic law. Same would be true if you were Catholic. Right? Catholics must raise their children catholic?

[♥JP♥ 5]

Here is what I know and this applies to MENA. The children are always supposed to follow the father faith. That doesn't mean it always happens.

For example, a Muslim man can marry a Christian or Jewish woman without her converting to Islam. Their children will be Muslim. However a Muslim woman cannot marry a Christian or Jewish man because her children would take on the father's faith.

I know of many cases, where this has not happened this way. I'm not sure if this is a rule set by society or religion. Islam is not the only relgion that follows this in MENA, Christians obide by it as well. In Jordan, if Christian man wants to marry a Muslim woman, he must convert or there is no marriage. However, a Christian girl would not have to convert to marry a Muslim man but she would most likely be disowned by her family or worse.

So any child I had with him is supposed to be raised in his faith.

From what I understand, yes. I'm pretty sure Egypt operates the same way as Jordan when it comes to this. Maybe Mohammed can shed some more light on this issue for us.

However keep in mind, you may come to a different agreement with your spouse. It can happen but would most likely be frowned upon heavily by his family/friends.

Here is what I know and this applies to MENA. The children are always supposed to follow the father faith. That doesn't mean it always happens.

For example, a Muslim man can marry a Christian or Jewish woman without her converting to Islam. Their children will be Muslim. However a Muslim woman cannot marry a Christian or Jewish man because her children would take on the father's faith.

I know of many cases, where this has not happened this way. I'm not sure if this is a rule set by society or religion. Islam is not the only relgion that follows this in MENA, Christians obide by it as well. In Jordan, if Christian man wants to marry a Muslim woman, he must convert or there is no marriage. However, a Christian girl would not have to convert to marry a Muslim man but she would most likely be disowned by her family or worse.

So any child I had with him is supposed to be raised in his faith.

It's more of Arab tradition than Islamic law. Same would be true if you were Catholic. Right? Catholics must raise their children catholic?

True but the consequences aren't as severe as they are in MENA.

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

Here is what I know and this applies to MENA. The children are always supposed to follow the father faith. That doesn't mean it always happens.

For example, a Muslim man can marry a Christian or Jewish woman without her converting to Islam. Their children will be Muslim. However a Muslim woman cannot marry a Christian or Jewish man because her children would take on the father's faith.

I know of many cases, where this has not happened this way. I'm not sure if this is a rule set by society or religion. Islam is not the only relgion that follows this in MENA, Christians obide by it as well. In Jordan, if Christian man wants to marry a Muslim woman, he must convert or there is no marriage. However, a Christian girl would not have to convert to marry a Muslim man but she would most likely be disowned by her family or worse.

So any child I had with him is supposed to be raised in his faith.

From what I understand, yes. I'm pretty sure Egypt operates the same way as Jordan when it comes to this. Maybe Mohammed can shed some more light on this issue for us.

However keep in mind, you may come to a different agreement with your spouse. It can happen but would most likely be frowned upon heavily by his family/friends.

Here is what I know and this applies to MENA. The children are always supposed to follow the father faith. That doesn't mean it always happens.

For example, a Muslim man can marry a Christian or Jewish woman without her converting to Islam. Their children will be Muslim. However a Muslim woman cannot marry a Christian or Jewish man because her children would take on the father's faith.

I know of many cases, where this has not happened this way. I'm not sure if this is a rule set by society or religion. Islam is not the only relgion that follows this in MENA, Christians obide by it as well. In Jordan, if Christian man wants to marry a Muslim woman, he must convert or there is no marriage. However, a Christian girl would not have to convert to marry a Muslim man but she would most likely be disowned by her family or worse.

So any child I had with him is supposed to be raised in his faith.

It's more of Arab tradition than Islamic law. Same would be true if you were Catholic. Right? Catholics must raise their children catholic?

True but the consequences aren't as severe as they are in MENA.

What are the consequences?

[♥JP♥ 5]

Here is what I know and this applies to MENA. The children are always supposed to follow the father faith. That doesn't mean it always happens.

For example, a Muslim man can marry a Christian or Jewish woman without her converting to Islam. Their children will be Muslim. However a Muslim woman cannot marry a Christian or Jewish man because her children would take on the father's faith.

I know of many cases, where this has not happened this way. I'm not sure if this is a rule set by society or religion. Islam is not the only relgion that follows this in MENA, Christians obide by it as well. In Jordan, if Christian man wants to marry a Muslim woman, he must convert or there is no marriage. However, a Christian girl would not have to convert to marry a Muslim man but she would most likely be disowned by her family or worse.

So any child I had with him is supposed to be raised in his faith.

From what I understand, yes. I'm pretty sure Egypt operates the same way as Jordan when it comes to this. Maybe Mohammed can shed some more light on this issue for us.

However keep in mind, you may come to a different agreement with your spouse. It can happen but would most likely be frowned upon heavily by his family/friends.

Here is what I know and this applies to MENA. The children are always supposed to follow the father faith. That doesn't mean it always happens.

For example, a Muslim man can marry a Christian or Jewish woman without her converting to Islam. Their children will be Muslim. However a Muslim woman cannot marry a Christian or Jewish man because her children would take on the father's faith.

I know of many cases, where this has not happened this way. I'm not sure if this is a rule set by society or religion. Islam is not the only relgion that follows this in MENA, Christians obide by it as well. In Jordan, if Christian man wants to marry a Muslim woman, he must convert or there is no marriage. However, a Christian girl would not have to convert to marry a Muslim man but she would most likely be disowned by her family or worse.

So any child I had with him is supposed to be raised in his faith.

It's more of Arab tradition than Islamic law. Same would be true if you were Catholic. Right? Catholics must raise their children catholic?

True but the consequences aren't as severe as they are in MENA.

What are the consequences?

A person can be disowned by his family, honor killings, death threats to both parties. Most of this doesn't apply here in the US.

[mybackpages 0]

Here is what I know and this applies to MENA. The children are always supposed to follow the father faith. That doesn't mean it always happens.

For example, a Muslim man can marry a Christian or Jewish woman without her converting to Islam. Their children will be Muslim. However a Muslim woman cannot marry a Christian or Jewish man because her children would take on the father's faith.

I know of many cases, where this has not happened this way. I'm not sure if this is a rule set by society or religion. Islam is not the only relgion that follows this in MENA, Christians obide by it as well. In Jordan, if Christian man wants to marry a Muslim woman, he must convert or there is no marriage. However, a Christian girl would not have to convert to marry a Muslim man but she would most likely be disowned by her family or worse.

So any child I had with him is supposed to be raised in his faith.

From what I understand, yes. I'm pretty sure Egypt operates the same way as Jordan when it comes to this. Maybe Mohammed can shed some more light on this issue for us.

However keep in mind, you may come to a different agreement with your spouse. It can happen but would most likely be frowned upon heavily by his family/friends.

Here is what I know and this applies to MENA. The children are always supposed to follow the father faith. That doesn't mean it always happens.

For example, a Muslim man can marry a Christian or Jewish woman without her converting to Islam. Their children will be Muslim. However a Muslim woman cannot marry a Christian or Jewish man because her children would take on the father's faith.

I know of many cases, where this has not happened this way. I'm not sure if this is a rule set by society or religion. Islam is not the only relgion that follows this in MENA, Christians obide by it as well. In Jordan, if Christian man wants to marry a Muslim woman, he must convert or there is no marriage. However, a Christian girl would not have to convert to marry a Muslim man but she would most likely be disowned by her family or worse.

So any child I had with him is supposed to be raised in his faith.

It's more of Arab tradition than Islamic law. Same would be true if you were Catholic. Right? Catholics must raise their children catholic?

True but the consequences aren't as severe as they are in MENA.

What are the consequences?

A person can be disowned by his family, honor killings, death threats to both parties. Most of this doesn't apply here in the US.

And depending on the country, the law often upholds the tradition giving the father legal custody and rights over the child.

[♥JP♥ 5]

Here is what I know and this applies to MENA. The children are always supposed to follow the father faith. That doesn't mean it always happens.

For example, a Muslim man can marry a Christian or Jewish woman without her converting to Islam. Their children will be Muslim. However a Muslim woman cannot marry a Christian or Jewish man because her children would take on the father's faith.

I know of many cases, where this has not happened this way. I'm not sure if this is a rule set by society or religion. Islam is not the only relgion that follows this in MENA, Christians obide by it as well. In Jordan, if Christian man wants to marry a Muslim woman, he must convert or there is no marriage. However, a Christian girl would not have to convert to marry a Muslim man but she would most likely be disowned by her family or worse.

So any child I had with him is supposed to be raised in his faith.

From what I understand, yes. I'm pretty sure Egypt operates the same way as Jordan when it comes to this. Maybe Mohammed can shed some more light on this issue for us.

However keep in mind, you may come to a different agreement with your spouse. It can happen but would most likely be frowned upon heavily by his family/friends.

Here is what I know and this applies to MENA. The children are always supposed to follow the father faith. That doesn't mean it always happens.

For example, a Muslim man can marry a Christian or Jewish woman without her converting to Islam. Their children will be Muslim. However a Muslim woman cannot marry a Christian or Jewish man because her children would take on the father's faith.

I know of many cases, where this has not happened this way. I'm not sure if this is a rule set by society or religion. Islam is not the only relgion that follows this in MENA, Christians obide by it as well. In Jordan, if Christian man wants to marry a Muslim woman, he must convert or there is no marriage. However, a Christian girl would not have to convert to marry a Muslim man but she would most likely be disowned by her family or worse.

So any child I had with him is supposed to be raised in his faith.

It's more of Arab tradition than Islamic law. Same would be true if you were Catholic. Right? Catholics must raise their children catholic?

True but the consequences aren't as severe as they are in MENA.

What are the consequences?

A person can be disowned by his family, honor killings, death threats to both parties. Most of this doesn't apply here in the US.

And depending on the country, the law often upholds the tradition giving the father legal custody and rights over the child.

Right, especially in the case of divorce. The father always gets custody unless he arranges otherwise.

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

So stepping back for a second. VW is saying its not religious but can be interpreted that way and JP and MBP are saying that its not so much religious as it is Arab Culture and tradition, and Islamic Law states the father always gets the kids in a divorce unless otherwise stipulated.

So would this stipulation be put into the marriage contract & if it wasn't at that time then can there be an addendum made to the marriage contract after the fact for foregien wives that didn't know these things before getting married?

[♥JP♥ 5]

I'm not sure if it would be in the marriage contract. I don't have one but as a part of our vows we agree to make our religion the foundation of our home and family.

[mybackpages 0]

So stepping back for a second. VW is saying its not religious but can be interpreted that way and JP and MBP are saying that its not so much religious as it is Arab Culture and tradition, and Islamic Law states the father always gets the kids in a divorce unless otherwise stipulated.

So would this stipulation be put into the marriage contract & if it wasn't at that time then can there be an addendum made to the marriage contract after the fact for foregien wives that didn't know these things before getting married?

I agree with VW's interpretation because there is little specific in the Quran to answer explicitly and that jurist have interreted it this way and it also is rooted in ARab culture and tradition.

What stipulations are you thinking of? raising the children as Muslim or what happens in the case of divorce? Have you looked at the family laws of Egypt? I doubt that anything could be put in a marriage contract and upheld in a court if it contradicts codified laws. Just because the law says fathers get custody does not mean fathers must have custody. Some fathers will make different custody arrangement with their ex because it is what is best for the children.

I have never heard of amending a marriage contract? Anyone?

[♥JP♥ 5]

So stepping back for a second. VW is saying its not religious but can be interpreted that way and JP and MBP are saying that its not so much religious as it is Arab Culture and tradition, and Islamic Law states the father always gets the kids in a divorce unless otherwise stipulated.

So would this stipulation be put into the marriage contract & if it wasn't at that time then can there be an addendum made to the marriage contract after the fact for foregien wives that didn't know these things before getting married?

I agree with VW's interpretation because there is little specific in the Quran to answer explicitly and that jurist have interreted it this way and it also is rooted in ARab culture and tradition.

What stipulations are you thinking of? raising the children as Muslim or what happens in the case of divorce? Have you looked at the family laws of Egypt? I doubt that anything could be put in a marriage contract and upheld in a court if it contradicts codified laws. Just because the law says fathers get custody does not mean fathers must have custody. Some fathers will make different custody arrangement with their ex because it is what is best for the children.

I have never heard of amending a marriage contract? Anyone?

I doubt any imam will ammend a marriage contract to say the children will be raised in another religion. also keep in mind that those laws are not upheld here in the usa.

ps: sorry for all lower case, i hate typing on my laptop!

[Sofiyya 1,687]

So stepping back for a second. VW is saying its not religious but can be interpreted that way and JP and MBP are saying that its not so much religious as it is Arab Culture and tradition, and Islamic Law states the father always gets the kids in a divorce unless otherwise stipulated.

So would this stipulation be put into the marriage contract & if it wasn't at that time then can there be an addendum made to the marriage contract after the fact for foregien wives that didn't know these things before getting married?

Sorry, Olivia. I didn't get back to that thread to see that you had asked a question of me.

Passing religion, status, family names, nationality, etc. thru the father is part of Arab tradition, and like so many things Arab, have been inculcated into Islam as though divinely inspired. They are not. In reading the text, it becomes clear that how Allah perceives faith and how Muslims have adapted it to the status quo has not always remained faithful to Allah's Intent. No child is bound to any faith because it is their father's preference; converts to and from Islam on this board attest to that. One can give children guidance, but, in the end, that is all you can do. Allah guides who He may, as He may, and to accept that is a test for us all.

Edited June 28, 2008 by Virtual wife

[mohamed N melinda 0]

childern has to be raised as the father religion. so olivia in Egypt the kids raised as thier father religion and no muslim man will accept his kids to be any thing but muslim even he is not religous