Canadian Health Care We So Envy Lies In Ruins, Its Architect Admits

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Coming from a county that too has social health care system I'd say without a doubt the system back home (am sure the system in Canada too) overall quite literally kicks the ####### of the every man for himself system here. I didn't mind at all paying higher taxes on everything knowing if I got sick I don't have to worry about a big bill, debt collectors and everyone else hounding me to death for money! I didn't mind paying more knowing that everyone all the way from the top to the bottom would get the same treatment.

The system here in the US isn't harsh to me... it's inhuman on those at the bottom. I've read and been told that some hospitals will send people without insurance to collections 2 weeks after requesting payment? 2 weeks before they set the vultures on ye!

I tried to make a dentist appointment here a few weeks ago, first question I was asked was "do you have insurance" next was "we might not accept that, you'd have to pay first".. Back home the first question was "whats wrong and are you in pain".... it sickens me to death to think that people without (could have been me, was me before) would have been turned away in pain?

Hmmm... Funny you should mention dental problems. Right now I feel like a horse kicked me in the jaw. However, when my tooth finally got to the point where I could no longer put off seeing a dentist I walked into the closest office to my home. They didn't ask about insurance at that point, and they made me an appointment for 3 days later. When I went in I was seen, had x-rays and was told about the need for some dental surgurey. Only after all that did they talk about insurance and money. I gave them my card and before I left they told me what part I would have to pay and what the insurance company would pay. Then they said that if I had any problem with coming up with my part ( I don't thank God) that they would take payments at zero interest for up to a year.

Gary, why is the U.S. the only industrialized nation that doesn't guarantee healthcare to its citizens?

Because we are a lot bigger than all the other industrialized countries with a more diverse population.

Try again, Gary: the six largest EU countries alone have a larger combined population than the US. And there are actually 27 member states in the EU with a total population close to 500MM. The EU, despite it's size and diversity offers universal health care to her citizens. Size ain't the reason, Gary.

And each one with their own system. You can't lump them all together unless their health care systems are also lumped together. Try again Dog.

Every citizen in the EU enjoys access to adequate health care. Everyone is covered. Period. And they pay less per capita for their systems than we do while we leave one out of six Americans in the dust. They're doing a better job overall and outperform us in efficiency many times over. But keep defending the indefensible.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I agree that something must change with our health care system.

Why the change of heart, Gary?

Just 15 days ago, this is what you had to say:

Our health care system is fine

It is fine but it can be improved. Personally I am very happy with what I have. As I said before, most people in America have good medical care (thats the fine part). But I do see the need to improve it and to help out the ones that don't have access.

are you serious? the thousands of americans who work low wage manufacturing jobs don't get jack.. the burger flippers at mickey d's get jack, they have to go to the healthcare county office wait forever and get crappy service...

Do you actually know any of these so-called poor people?

I don't. I think the media makes them up so they can push their radical marxist agenda!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I agree that something must change with our health care system.

Why the change of heart, Gary?

Just 15 days ago, this is what you had to say:

Our health care system is fine

It is fine but it can be improved. Personally I am very happy with what I have.

Gary is a big advocate of red tape and bureaucratic waste. He knows that no government comes close to the private sector when it comes to creating costly and inefficient red tape in the health care sector. Therefore, he supports the status quo.

We are having a real discussion here dog, if you want to start a flame war I suggest you go elsewhere.

You support the most ineffective, most wasteful health care system in the world. You must like red tape in order to defend it.

[pedroh 21]

I agree that something must change with our health care system.

Why the change of heart, Gary?

Just 15 days ago, this is what you had to say:

Our health care system is fine

It is fine but it can be improved. Personally I am very happy with what I have. As I said before, most people in America have good medical care (thats the fine part). But I do see the need to improve it and to help out the ones that don't have access.

are you serious? the thousands of americans who work low wage manufacturing jobs don't get jack.. the burger flippers at mickey d's get jack, they have to go to the healthcare county office wait forever and get crappy service...

Do you actually know any of these so-called poor people?

I don't. I think the media makes them up so they can push their radical marxist agenda!

yea, i lived in a small ### country-town for years.. where most jobs are manufacturing or in the farms.. even if they had a 'decent' insurance.. the city didn't have the facilities to take care of medium-to complex procedures, they either had to fly them to fayettenam or hospitals in raleigh, just the transport fee even with coverage was a killer

[GaryC 7]

I agree that something must change with our health care system.

Why the change of heart, Gary?

Just 15 days ago, this is what you had to say:

Our health care system is fine

It is fine but it can be improved. Personally I am very happy with what I have. As I said before, most people in America have good medical care (thats the fine part). But I do see the need to improve it and to help out the ones that don't have access.

are you serious? the thousands of americans who work low wage manufacturing jobs don't get jack.. the burger flippers at mickey d's get jack, they have to go to the healthcare county office wait forever and get crappy service...

Those are the 20% that I am talking about in my previous post. Let those that have insurance keep their insurance. Fix what is wrong with it by making it portable and eliminating the pre-existing condition clause. For those that don't have insurance ( your example ) then expand one of the government programs to include them.

I agree that something must change with our health care system.

Why the change of heart, Gary?

Just 15 days ago, this is what you had to say:

Our health care system is fine

It is fine but it can be improved. Personally I am very happy with what I have.

Gary is a big advocate of red tape and bureaucratic waste. He knows that no government comes close to the private sector when it comes to creating costly and inefficient red tape in the health care sector. Therefore, he supports the status quo.

We are having a real discussion here dog, if you want to start a flame war I suggest you go elsewhere.

You support the most ineffective, most wasteful health care system in the world. You must like red tape in order to defend it.

Your not going to draw me into a flame war Dog. Go away unless you want to have a discussion like an adult.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I agree that something must change with our health care system.

Why the change of heart, Gary?

Just 15 days ago, this is what you had to say:

Our health care system is fine

It is fine but it can be improved. Personally I am very happy with what I have. As I said before, most people in America have good medical care (thats the fine part). But I do see the need to improve it and to help out the ones that don't have access.

are you serious? the thousands of americans who work low wage manufacturing jobs don't get jack.. the burger flippers at mickey d's get jack, they have to go to the healthcare county office wait forever and get crappy service...

Do you actually know any of these so-called poor people?

I don't. I think the media makes them up so they can push their radical marxist agenda!

yea, i lived in a small ### country-town for years.. where most jobs are manufacturing or in the farms.. even if they had a 'decent' insurance.. the city didn't have the facilities to take care of medium-to complex procedures, they either had to fly them to fayettenam or hospitals in raleigh, just the transport fee even with coverage was a killer

i was being facetious

[aidan80 9]

Coming from a county that too has social health care system I'd say without a doubt the system back home (am sure the system in Canada too) overall quite literally kicks the ####### of the every man for himself system here. I didn't mind at all paying higher taxes on everything knowing if I got sick I don't have to worry about a big bill, debt collectors and everyone else hounding me to death for money! I didn't mind paying more knowing that everyone all the way from the top to the bottom would get the same treatment.

The system here in the US isn't harsh to me... it's inhuman on those at the bottom. I've read and been told that some hospitals will send people without insurance to collections 2 weeks after requesting payment? 2 weeks before they set the vultures on ye!

I tried to make a dentist appointment here a few weeks ago, first question I was asked was "do you have insurance" next was "we might not accept that, you'd have to pay first".. Back home the first question was "whats wrong and are you in pain".... it sickens me to death to think that people without (could have been me, was me before) would have been turned away in pain?

Hmmm... Funny you should mention dental problems. Right now I feel like a horse kicked me in the jaw. However, when my tooth finally got to the point where I could no longer put off seeing a dentist I walked into the closest office to my home. They didn't ask about insurance at that point, and they made me an appointment for 3 days later. When I went in I was seen, had x-rays and was told about the need for some dental surgurey. Only after all that did they talk about insurance and money. I gave them my card and before I left they told me what part I would have to pay and what the insurance company would pay. Then they said that if I had any problem with coming up with my part ( I don't thank God) that they would take payments at zero interest for up to a year.

I'd love to know where that dentist was.. you sure you didn't go to Canada for that kind of treatment?... Maybe you looked/sounded like you could afford it maybe, maybe you found one in a million? I know one thing for sure every dentist I've seen in the US has asked for three things right away, fill in this document, we'll need to see ID and your health insurance card.. No insurance card, well we'll need to see some cash...

I think if this country cut back on the billions spend killing other people across the globe and chopped government in a few dozen places then maybe it wouldn't be so bad? I mean, how many levels of government in this county?.. City, County, State, Federal.. so much waste!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I agree that something must change with our health care system.

Why the change of heart, Gary?

Just 15 days ago, this is what you had to say:

Our health care system is fine

It is fine but it can be improved. Personally I am very happy with what I have. As I said before, most people in America have good medical care (thats the fine part). But I do see the need to improve it and to help out the ones that don't have access.

are you serious? the thousands of americans who work low wage manufacturing jobs don't get jack.. the burger flippers at mickey d's get jack, they have to go to the healthcare county office wait forever and get crappy service...

Do you actually know any of these so-called poor people?

Yes.

[GaryC 7]

Coming from a county that too has social health care system I'd say without a doubt the system back home (am sure the system in Canada too) overall quite literally kicks the ####### of the every man for himself system here. I didn't mind at all paying higher taxes on everything knowing if I got sick I don't have to worry about a big bill, debt collectors and everyone else hounding me to death for money! I didn't mind paying more knowing that everyone all the way from the top to the bottom would get the same treatment.

The system here in the US isn't harsh to me... it's inhuman on those at the bottom. I've read and been told that some hospitals will send people without insurance to collections 2 weeks after requesting payment? 2 weeks before they set the vultures on ye!

I tried to make a dentist appointment here a few weeks ago, first question I was asked was "do you have insurance" next was "we might not accept that, you'd have to pay first".. Back home the first question was "whats wrong and are you in pain".... it sickens me to death to think that people without (could have been me, was me before) would have been turned away in pain?

Hmmm... Funny you should mention dental problems. Right now I feel like a horse kicked me in the jaw. However, when my tooth finally got to the point where I could no longer put off seeing a dentist I walked into the closest office to my home. They didn't ask about insurance at that point, and they made me an appointment for 3 days later. When I went in I was seen, had x-rays and was told about the need for some dental surgurey. Only after all that did they talk about insurance and money. I gave them my card and before I left they told me what part I would have to pay and what the insurance company would pay. Then they said that if I had any problem with coming up with my part ( I don't thank God) that they would take payments at zero interest for up to a year.

I'd love to know where that dentist was.. you sure you didn't go to Canada for that kind of treatment?... Maybe you looked/sounded like you could afford it maybe, maybe you found one in a million? I know one thing for sure every dentist I've seen in the US has asked for three things right away, fill in this document, we'll need to see ID and your health insurance card.. No insurance card, well we'll need to see some cash...

I think if this country cut back on the billions spend killing other people across the globe and chopped government in a few dozen places then maybe it wouldn't be so bad? I mean, how many levels of government in this county?.. City, County, State, Federal.. so much waste!

That has been my experience with medical issues all along. When Luz had her problem a few months ago the hospital didn't ask for insurance until we went to check out. When all was said and done my insurance picked up all but about $1000. When I got the bill a few weeks later I said I didn't have it all right now. I asked if we could make payments on it. They set me up with a zero interest payment plan for one year. It was all very painless and Luz had the best care anyone would want.

As far as the way our government is set up, well... sad to say that is the way it is. It's a tiered system. It does induce waste but at the same time it's easier to deal with on a local level for a local problem.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Your not going to draw me into a flame war Dog. Go away unless you want to have a discussion like an adult.

No health care system anywhere in the world is as wasteful and red tape laden as that here in the US. That's a fact. A third of every health care dollar goes towards red tape. That's a fact. And it's a disgrace. There's nothing more juvenile than denying the facts while claiming to have an adult discussion. Address the red tape and bureaucratic waste that makes this the most expensive and least efficient system of health care anywhere in the world. Then we can have an adult discussion. Dodging the facts with cheap excuses isn't working.

Edited June 27, 2008 by Mr. Big Dog

[GaryC 7]

Your not going to draw me into a flame war Dog. Go away unless you want to have a discussion like an adult.

No health care system anywhere in the world is as wasteful and red tape laden as that here in the US. That's a fact. A third of every health care dollar goes towards red tape. That's a fact. And it's a disgrace. There's nothing more juvenile than denying the facts while claiming to have an adult discussion. Address the red tape and bureaucratic waste that makes this the most expensive and least efficient system of health care anywhere in the world. Then we can have an adult discussion. Dodging the facts with cheap excuses isn't working.

Talking to you is useless on any level, that much is for sure. Just go somewhere else please.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Your not going to draw me into a flame war Dog. Go away unless you want to have a discussion like an adult.

No health care system anywhere in the world is as wasteful and red tape laden as that here in the US. That's a fact. A third of every health care dollar goes towards red tape. That's a fact. And it's a disgrace. There's nothing more juvenile than denying the facts while claiming to have an adult discussion. Address the red tape and bureaucratic waste that makes this the most expensive and least efficient system of health care anywhere in the world. Then we can have an adult discussion. Dodging the facts with cheap excuses isn't working.

Talking to you is useless on any level, that much is for sure. Just go somewhere else please.

What part of my claim is factually wrong? Dodging facts is the best you can do on this issue?

[GaryC 7]

Your not going to draw me into a flame war Dog. Go away unless you want to have a discussion like an adult.

No health care system anywhere in the world is as wasteful and red tape laden as that here in the US. That's a fact. A third of every health care dollar goes towards red tape. That's a fact. And it's a disgrace. There's nothing more juvenile than denying the facts while claiming to have an adult discussion. Address the red tape and bureaucratic waste that makes this the most expensive and least efficient system of health care anywhere in the world. Then we can have an adult discussion. Dodging the facts with cheap excuses isn't working.

Talking to you is useless on any level, that much is for sure. Just go somewhere else please.

What part of my claim is factually wrong? Dodging facts is the best you can do on this issue?

Oh well, if you won't leave then I will. Your filled with hate and can't see anything but what you want to see. Have fun Dog. Bye.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Your not going to draw me into a flame war Dog. Go away unless you want to have a discussion like an adult.

No health care system anywhere in the world is as wasteful and red tape laden as that here in the US. That's a fact. A third of every health care dollar goes towards red tape. That's a fact. And it's a disgrace. There's nothing more juvenile than denying the facts while claiming to have an adult discussion. Address the red tape and bureaucratic waste that makes this the most expensive and least efficient system of health care anywhere in the world. Then we can have an adult discussion. Dodging the facts with cheap excuses isn't working.

Talking to you is useless on any level, that much is for sure. Just go somewhere else please.

What part of my claim is factually wrong? Dodging facts is the best you can do on this issue?

Oh well, if you won't leave then I will. Your filled with hate and can't see anything but what you want to see. Have fun Dog. Bye.

I've actually experienced both models firsthand. I take the universal over the fragmented, wasteful and inefficient system I am subjected to now any day. It would save me a lot of money and afford me more convenient access to care.

[rebeccajo 14]

I still can't get over the fact that some people believe in a system wherein BUSINESS bears most of the cost of insuring Americans.

I can't help but think the business sector would benefit from having that drain removed from their books.