How much, is too much?

[Simply_Uno 1]

I like salt with my pepa :rofl:

Like this??

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yes, like dat, I wanna shoop baybe'

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[lovin_famo 0]

I think the requests for money are different for everyone.

If he is asking you for money for rent, everyday bills, food, internet access......I would run the other way.

If it is money pertaining to the visa process, then I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing. Inusah and I discussed the bills for immigraiton and our wedding. He is paying for the reception and furnishing a house that his dad offered us to stay when we go home. He had saved up money for his plane ticket here. I told him to use it towards the wedding so that we could go all out. Inusah has never asked me for any money, what I have given him has only been related to immigration. I already have his money for AOS. We don't want to wait on filing that once he gets here.

I think requests for money should be judged on a case by case basis.

Yes, yes, yes! Exactly, the requests for money are different, for example, your husband has been saving money in preparation for his coming here, Bravo! to you. Ola, is doing the same, his reason being that, he knows i am a single mother, and he knows my first priority is my daughter. We do not wish to cause stress on her living and well-being. I am thinking, long-term, and so is he. The process in itself is expensive. Just wanted to hear others opinions on the subject. Thanks for your valuable input!

Dana

[lovin_famo 0]

I am not bashing you or your relationship so please before I post please dont take this the wrong way.In fact this post is not aimed at you. I am only using it becuase of the comment regarding salery. For your relationship this may be fine becuase only you know your husband,the arrangements you have made and your personal finances, however for some this kind of thinking is how soo many women got and continue to get into trouble in their relationships. They immediatly assume that they are not making the kind of money we make here and that they are proving their love and devotion by "helping out". Let me tell you somthing(in a good way) I have been around Africans all my life. All of my friends are Africans and I have NEVER dated anyone but African men. I was in a long term and I mean long term relationship with a Nigerian before my first marriage. Nigerians LOVE money. In my opinion even more than the average Joe. They are very resourcefull, hardworking, go getters. They get educations rival to the Japanese. They are smart and take pride in success. Jobs may be hard to come by in Naija but let me tell you that most have emplyment becuase they will hustle(in a good way) to get money. They will sit by the road and make phone calls just to get by. In fact I have met more extremely wealthy Nigerians than I have of Americans.

Dont get me wrong, there is extreme poverty in Africa but there are many who are also wealthy or at lease middle class and making it. So many people have steryotypes about what Africa really is and immediatly assume that their boyfriend, fiance, or spouse are making little to nothing and need their financial support. Then with complete abandon start sending money, assuming the role of provider, and taking on a responsibilty that should be shared. Then they get into trouble when their SO gets here and expects the same thing.

I know for a fact that marriage and family is quite a big deal to Nigerians. Most men do not marry at an early age becuase they cannot afford a spouse and family. They do not usually consider marriage until they have enough income to care for such a task. That is why I warn so much about getting involved with a man that says he needs money or accepts his partner taking on the responsibility of such things. It is diffrent if you have disscused this and made arrangements on who will pay what and when. But I must admit I have a problem when the men are allowing their SO to take on the total responsibilty. My husband was upset with me when I started the immigration process and paid the fee and didnt tell him. He promptly sent me the money back and has said he will conintue to pay for the rest of the journey. I have offered to even go in half but he does not agree to this and says he will have faith in God that when the time comes, so will the money. I am not trying to compare my relationship with anyones, I am just giving an example of what we have discussed. Everyone is diffrent and everyones marriage is diffrent, however I must warn women new to these kind of relationships not to assume and rush in based on the idea that their man "needs" them. Be patient, and dont try to jump in and be captain save a homey.

I hope you will not think I am implying this of you Sylvia , like I said I know nothing of your marriage, but I think putting this message out there can be detremental to a newcomer who may or may not be in a bad situation. This applies for everyone though whether in a relationship with a foreigner or someone on the home front. It all comes down to keeping your senses until he has proved himself and saving the freefall for later.

There is a vast difference of incomes between us and them. Most of our men don't come close to making the same money we do even if they have the same type of job. Joseph is a hard working, mid wage person in his country. Which means he still fights employers that try the " I will pay you next week/month " and the lack of things I consider basics such as electricity and hot water. He is also a man of great faith that we will get through this without spending money for repeated trips. I have sent money for his birthday and the holidays. He hasn't asked for more. I will be paying for the ticket and AOS and the marriage and possibly some of the fees to complete this part of the journey. He is trying his best to cover the rest of his expenses there but we think his employer has caught on to his reason for missing work. He has not collected his pay in a month so his small savings are vanishing. So far we are sneaking by, hoping for approval because his flat is paid for until Oct and we don't want to have to pay again ( 1800 USD a year )

When he arrives I know it will take a while until he is settled in a job. But even then I doubt he will ever be the major wage earner in terms of $$ and that is fine I make enough to not worry about sponsoring him. What he earns will add to the income of the household and enable us to build structures on the land he owns there, which is good for families on both ends. I did not meet him online, in fact this whole thing has proceed basically without the benefit of internet.

[lovin_famo 0]

I think the requests for money are different for everyone.

If he is asking you for money for rent, everyday bills, food, internet access......I would run the other way.

If it is money pertaining to the visa process, then I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing. Inusah and I discussed the bills for immigraiton and our wedding. He is paying for the reception and furnishing a house that his dad offered us to stay when we go home. He had saved up money for his plane ticket here. I told him to use it towards the wedding so that we could go all out. Inusah has never asked me for any money, what I have given him has only been related to immigration. I already have his money for AOS. We don't want to wait on filing that once he gets here.

I think requests for money should be judged on a case by case basis.

Well put. My husband and I have split the costs for the visa petitions. We have taken trips back and forth, but it usually works out half/half always; as a marriage should be (and that isn't to say monitarily speaking.. that's goes across the board). You never expect your spouse to make the same, or the make more. You do what you do with the means that you have.

Oh sorry that I'm a European in the Sub Sarahan-Africa thread... I just thought it was an interesting one.

Quite alright! Maybe, i should have asked what careers do you guys have so i can switch, because my means aren't pretty!

[przy 0]

I think the requests for money are different for everyone.

If he is asking you for money for rent, everyday bills, food, internet access......I would run the other way.

If it is money pertaining to the visa process, then I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing. Inusah and I discussed the bills for immigraiton and our wedding. He is paying for the reception and furnishing a house that his dad offered us to stay when we go home. He had saved up money for his plane ticket here. I told him to use it towards the wedding so that we could go all out. Inusah has never asked me for any money, what I have given him has only been related to immigration. I already have his money for AOS. We don't want to wait on filing that once he gets here.

I think requests for money should be judged on a case by case basis.

Well put. My husband and I have split the costs for the visa petitions. We have taken trips back and forth, but it usually works out half/half always; as a marriage should be (and that isn't to say monitarily speaking.. that's goes across the board). You never expect your spouse to make the same, or the make more. You do what you do with the means that you have.

Oh sorry that I'm a European in the Sub Sarahan-Africa thread... I just thought it was an interesting one.

Quite alright! Maybe, i should have asked what careers do you guys have so i can switch, because my means aren't pretty!

There is a saying I use quite often, "Kämpfen und Siegen." Basically, struggle and success. It can be applied to everyday and every experience (I think). When the going gets tough, the tough gets going.

[Enlighten one :) 5]

People who have to defend their relationships are really defending to themselves not you 4theloveofhenry. So do not take it personal. When I first was here I supported Idocare causes, because I know exactly what you explained. She is defensive because of her own doubts. It has nothing to do with what you said. Take it with a grain of salt. I realize that when people get defensive about these post it is because they are really defensive about themselves.

I will quit posting here becuase no one ever really reads what someone says. I emphatically told you this post was not aimed at you but for someone new to this kind of relationship. It really suprises me how somone can post somthing with the mildest and sincerest intent and then get jumped all over by somone who did not even take the time to read what was really said but heard only what they wanted to hear. Didnt you read anything I said about this not being about you!!!!!!!!!!!! DId you see where I said this was only concerning the myth about income in NIgeria. I am sick and will say it again sick of this GARBAGE. Sick of people that just want to start somthing. I never talked about you or your husband, hence the reason for me letting you know that in the beginning. I give up on this ridiculous #######!!!

You are right You have no idea of my relationship. We have known each other for years and I have known the family for over a decade. I have never implied that Joseph is lazy or going to live off me when he gets here. My comment about him not making as much as I do is a reference to my income level. I am not some welfare mom or some little old lady living on disability, so lonely for company and praying someone will drop a paycheck in my lap. Those are the types that will frustrate a hard working man as a burden and will find their home empty once again.

I am not sure why you singled me out, maybe you have something against interracial marriages but whatever you trip is that is fine. Joseph has long admired white features and that is part of what makes us tick as a couple. He has never really cared for the type of woman that spends hard earned money on hair and nails. His education there is as a construction costing manager. He made a decent wage by Nigerian standards. He was never one of those Nigerians I have had contact with that have money for things and could never quite explain how they got it. ( To me magic money spells scammer ) Right now there isn't much call for construction here in southern California so he will probably work out of his specialty. Maybe do a switch to something else. Either way he is looking working in a new country and will not be paid as a highly experienced , highly educated employee straight off.

I am not heading for a free fall by any means. Joseph is not well off in Nigeria but he was doing the best he could. He owns a couple of pieces of property that as of right now don't have dwellings on them. He is older and unmarried because when he was younger, he paid bride price for a woman, educated her and lost her to an automotive accident while she was doing her youth corp service. I have been to where she is buried on the family property. We have talked about plans for both properties as well as caring for his parents ( he is the oldest son so that falls on him ) We have talked traditions such as head shaving if he predeceases me. His father has broken a kola nut in my honor. His youngest brother and I hit off well because we are both electrical engineers. Another is a doctor. Joseph has given a lot to make sure they didn't have to leave school due to lack of money and never asked me for anything. Why would I at this point develop a sense of cheapness and tell him to reschedule an interview over a few hundred dollars. We want to be together so if for a bit more money comes out of my pocket I am fine with it.

Edited June 27, 2008 by Lurking

[Enlighten one :) 5]

Many Nigerian's are resentful of the American/western civilization ways. The quest to be as successful and materialistic has Americans is what causes corruption and deceit among their people. There is an article that talks about the failure of the African union of couples because of western civilization. There is one thing to need money to feed and take care of medicals, but for anything else is just unjustified. The cost of living there is substantially lower. Despite the empowerment of women in America some Nigerian men are resentful of this financial success over them. You might think I have done all this for him he will never leave me or at least always be my friend, but you are sorely mistaken. This could actually billed resentment and distain overtime, if one is not careful around their intention of being a provider.

1. Issue of Dowry and the role of the man and woman

The payment of dowry is a common practice in Africa, while dowry payments date back to Bible days, its meaning has changed. Dowry is now seen as purchasing the woman, so the woman is seen as a property and not a helpmate.

For many years when women were uneducated, men got away with treating them as a property. But with women lawyers, doctors, and other highly placed professionals, things are changing.

Based on the issue of dowry, women are treated different. We joke that a woman's place is in the kitchen. African men force respect out of their spouse by beating them instead of getting it through good leadership. The leadership role of a man is generally interpreted as that of a boss and servant, instead of the role stated in the Bible, as servant leader which Christ himself demonstrated in John chapter 13 when He washed the feet of His disciple.

While speaking to over 100 pastors and wives in Port-au-Prince, Haiti last week (4/8 - 4/16/05) you could have heard the pin drop when I said men and women are equal before God and men are only the leader among equal.

Earning more than your husband is a new concept that many people don't know how to deal with because for decades African men (and indeed men all over the world) have tied leading the home to financial dominance or more earning capacity.

Feme Awodele

I am not bashing you or your relationship so please before I post please dont take this the wrong way.In fact this post is not aimed at you. I am only using it becuase of the comment regarding salery. For your relationship this may be fine becuase only you know your husband,the arrangements you have made and your personal finances, however for some this kind of thinking is how soo many women got and continue to get into trouble in their relationships. They immediatly assume that they are not making the kind of money we make here and that they are proving their love and devotion by "helping out". Let me tell you somthing(in a good way) I have been around Africans all my life. All of my friends are Africans and I have NEVER dated anyone but African men. I was in a long term and I mean long term relationship with a Nigerian before my first marriage. Nigerians LOVE money. In my opinion even more than the average Joe. They are very resourcefull, hardworking, go getters. They get educations rival to the Japanese. They are smart and take pride in success. Jobs may be hard to come by in Naija but let me tell you that most have emplyment becuase they will hustle(in a good way) to get money. They will sit by the road and make phone calls just to get by. In fact I have met more extremely wealthy Nigerians than I have of Americans.

Dont get me wrong, there is extreme poverty in Africa but there are many who are also wealthy or at lease middle class and making it. So many people have steryotypes about what Africa really is and immediatly assume that their boyfriend, fiance, or spouse are making little to nothing and need their financial support. Then with complete abandon start sending money, assuming the role of provider, and taking on a responsibilty that should be shared. Then they get into trouble when their SO gets here and expects the same thing.

I know for a fact that marriage and family is quite a big deal to Nigerians. Most men do not marry at an early age becuase they cannot afford a spouse and family. They do not usually consider marriage until they have enough income to care for such a task. That is why I warn so much about getting involved with a man that says he needs money or accepts his partner taking on the responsibility of such things. It is diffrent if you have disscused this and made arrangements on who will pay what and when. But I must admit I have a problem when the men are allowing their SO to take on the total responsibilty. My husband was upset with me when I started the immigration process and paid the fee and didnt tell him. He promptly sent me the money back and has said he will conintue to pay for the rest of the journey. I have offered to even go in half but he does not agree to this and says he will have faith in God that when the time comes, so will the money. I am not trying to compare my relationship with anyones, I am just giving an example of what we have discussed. Everyone is diffrent and everyones marriage is diffrent, however I must warn women new to these kind of relationships not to assume and rush in based on the idea that their man "needs" them. Be patient, and dont try to jump in and be captain save a homey.

I hope you will not think I am implying this of you Sylvia , like I said I know nothing of your marriage, but I think putting this message out there can be detremental to a newcomer who may or may not be in a bad situation. This applies for everyone though whether in a relationship with a foreigner or someone on the home front. It all comes down to keeping your senses until he has proved himself and saving the freefall for later.

There is a vast difference of incomes between us and them. Most of our men don't come close to making the same money we do even if they have the same type of job. Joseph is a hard working, mid wage person in his country. Which means he still fights employers that try the " I will pay you next week/month " and the lack of things I consider basics such as electricity and hot water. He is also a man of great faith that we will get through this without spending money for repeated trips. I have sent money for his birthday and the holidays. He hasn't asked for more. I will be paying for the ticket and AOS and the marriage and possibly some of the fees to complete this part of the journey. He is trying his best to cover the rest of his expenses there but we think his employer has caught on to his reason for missing work. He has not collected his pay in a month so his small savings are vanishing. So far we are sneaking by, hoping for approval because his flat is paid for until Oct and we don't want to have to pay again ( 1800 USD a year )

When he arrives I know it will take a while until he is settled in a job. But even then I doubt he will ever be the major wage earner in terms of $$ and that is fine I make enough to not worry about sponsoring him. What he earns will add to the income of the household and enable us to build structures on the land he owns there, which is good for families on both ends. I did not meet him online, in fact this whole thing has proceed basically without the benefit of internet.

[Sylvia_n_Joseph 3]

I was not defending myself I was responding to an unwarranted personal attack from someone that had no knowledge of the truth. I have no doubts at all about my relationship so thank you very much for throwing out some more thoughtless words. If you don't know what you are talking about you should really not make accusations. May god forgive you for your behavior

People who have to defend their relationships are really defending to themselves not you 4theloveofhenry. So do not take it personal. When I first was here I supported Idocare causes, because I know exactly what you explained. She is defensive because of her own doubts. It has nothing to do with what you said. Take it with a grain of salt. I realize that when people get defensive about these post it is because they are really defensive about themselves.

I will quit posting here becuase no one ever really reads what someone says. I emphatically told you this post was not aimed at you but for someone new to this kind of relationship. It really suprises me how somone can post somthing with the mildest and sincerest intent and then get jumped all over by somone who did not even take the time to read what was really said but heard only what they wanted to hear. Didnt you read anything I said about this not being about you!!!!!!!!!!!! DId you see where I said this was only concerning the myth about income in NIgeria. I am sick and will say it again sick of this GARBAGE. Sick of people that just want to start somthing. I never talked about you or your husband, hence the reason for me letting you know that in the beginning. I give up on this ridiculous #######!!!

[Asante Maroon 0]

I understand what you were trying to say here and I am pretty sure others understand you as well. The thing is that when conversations get out of hand like this one has, people tend to not want to get involved.

I don't think you are prejudice and I don't believe you were trying to take jabs at anyone here. I believe you were just trying to be informative and share your own personal experience.

VJ's purpose is not to create an uncomfortable and hostile environment. It is suppose to be an environment that offers support and encouragement. I really don't want this negative experience to give VJ a bad rap. There are a lot of positive, loving and extremely supportive people here. I can honestly say that I received so much support an help from people here.

Just like in life, on VJ you have to filter out all the negative talk and focus on the positive ones. And there are way more positive talk here!

This negative experience in no way represents the people of VJ. We got your back if you need us!!!

I will quit posting here becuase no one ever really reads what someone says. I emphatically told you this post was not aimed at you but for someone new to this kind of relationship. It really suprises me how somone can post somthing with the mildest and sincerest intent and then get jumped all over by somone who did not even take the time to read what was really said but heard only what they wanted to hear. Didnt you read anything I said about this not being about you!!!!!!!!!!!! DId you see where I said this was only concerning the myth about income in NIgeria. I am sick and will say it again sick of this GARBAGE. Sick of people that just want to start somthing. I never talked about you or your husband, hence the reason for me letting you know that in the beginning. I give up on this ridiculous #######!!!

[Enlighten one :) 5]

I thouroughly read her post. She was not attacking you. You she was making a comment on her knowledge and experience. I felt your responce to her was much more attacking. There is a reason you specificly felt attacked, but it has nothing to do with her. Only you.

Why would God have to forgive me? Because I am educated someone on why people get defensive.

"Generally, when people talk about someone becoming defensive in the context of a conversation, they are meaning that that someone is engaging in emotionally defensive maneuvers designed to ward off their having to experience some unwanted feeling or admit responsibility for some disowned act. People who are acting defensively are essentially trying to protect themselves from feeling a certain uncomfortable way, and from viewing themselves as a failure or otherwise in a negative light. " Ann Witt, MD

I was not defending myself I was responding to an unwarranted personal attack from someone that had no knowledge of the truth. I have no doubts at all about my relationship so thank you very much for throwing out some more thoughtless words. If you don't know what you are talking about you should really not make accusations. May god forgive you for your behavior

Edited June 27, 2008 by Lurking

[Sylvia_n_Joseph 3]

If people think this conversation has gotten out of hand they should leave the thread to die . I certainly wish it would. But if ANYONE thinks they know my relationship better than I do and wishes to post false statements about it be prepared for a rebuttal. I am especially shocked at those that pretend to be children of God throwing casting stones at my faith in this. This whole thread is definitely NOT supportive to my journey in fact I may save it as an example of it's darkest moments as the minions of the devil try to tear it apart.

[Ta Ta 1]

I thouroughly read her post. She was not attacking you. You she was making a comment on her knowledge and experience. I felt your responce to her was much more attacking. There is a reason you specificly felt attacked, but it has nothing to do with her. Only you.

Why would God have to forgive me? Because I am educated someone on why people get defensive.

"Generally, when people talk about someone becoming defensive in the context of a conversation, they are meaning that that someone is engaging in emotionally defensive maneuvers designed to ward off their having to experience some unwanted feeling or admit responsibility for some disowned act. People who are acting defensively are essentially trying to protect themselves from feeling a certain uncomfortable way, and from viewing themselves as a failure or otherwise in a negative light. " Ann Witt, MD

I was not defending myself I was responding to an unwarranted personal attack from someone that had no knowledge of the truth. I have no doubts at all about my relationship so thank you very much for throwing out some more thoughtless words. If you don't know what you are talking about you should really not make accusations. May god forgive you for your behavior

Only God can see the heart. It could be as simple as misunderstanding the meaning of the typed word by someone and we should not judge someones relationship and assume a reply is defensiveness when it is a misunderstanding.

[Sylvia_n_Joseph 3]

She was using a tact called diversion. In her denial of being person she called me out by name . If I make the statement

I am not claiming Sally stole the money by inference I am associating her name with that act.

She did not make a general statement but one directed toward me that I did take personally. Even after she posted in another thread that she was done with it, She returned to this one to have one last attack. I dropped the whole mess praying that it was over. But now you show up as self appointed analyst and decide that I am unsure of my relationship. And throwing it snippets for your gallery of quotes to justify your slander to wards my relationship.

I am stating right now that I am not going to let this negative devil tongued drivel ruin my journey. I hope you all have more compassion for others in real life than you are currently displaying on this "safe" haven for casting stones. My mother taught me long ago that many of those that profess to be godly are actually the devils agents of chaos and I certainly see that here.

I thouroughly read her post. She was not attacking you. You she was making a comment on her knowledge and experience. I felt your responce to her was much more attacking. There is a reason you specificly felt attacked, but it has nothing to do with her. Only you.

Why would God have to forgive me? Because I am educated someone on why people get defensive.

"Generally, when people talk about someone becoming defensive in the context of a conversation, they are meaning that that someone is engaging in emotionally defensive maneuvers designed to ward off their having to experience some unwanted feeling or admit responsibility for some disowned act. People who are acting defensively are essentially trying to protect themselves from feeling a certain uncomfortable way, and from viewing themselves as a failure or otherwise in a negative light. " Ann Witt, MD

I was not defending myself I was responding to an unwarranted personal attack from someone that had no knowledge of the truth. I have no doubts at all about my relationship so thank you very much for throwing out some more thoughtless words. If you don't know what you are talking about you should really not make accusations. May god forgive you for your behavior

[Sylvia_n_Joseph 3]

I thouroughly read her post. She was not attacking you. You she was making a comment on her knowledge and experience. I felt your responce to her was much more attacking. There is a reason you specificly felt attacked, but it has nothing to do with her. Only you.

Why would God have to forgive me? Because I am educated someone on why people get defensive.

"Generally, when people talk about someone becoming defensive in the context of a conversation, they are meaning that that someone is engaging in emotionally defensive maneuvers designed to ward off their having to experience some unwanted feeling or admit responsibility for some disowned act. People who are acting defensively are essentially trying to protect themselves from feeling a certain uncomfortable way, and from viewing themselves as a failure or otherwise in a negative light. " Ann Witt, MD

I was not defending myself I was responding to an unwarranted personal attack from someone that had no knowledge of the truth. I have no doubts at all about my relationship so thank you very much for throwing out some more thoughtless words. If you don't know what you are talking about you should really not make accusations. May god forgive you for your behavior

Only God can see the heart. It could be as simple as misunderstanding the meaning of the typed word by someone and we should not judge someones relationship and assume a reply is defensiveness when it is a misunderstanding.

[Enlighten one :) 5]

And throwing it snippets for your gallery of quotes to justify your slander to wards my relationship.

I was not slandering your relationship. I was explaining to her not to take your reaction personal and explanation of why people feel defensive. I know nothing about your relationship nor do I need to understand why people react defensively.

Maybe she is attacking you personally, but only you know that. Your defensive post to her response will only solidify her comments. So if what you say is the truth she accomplished what she wanted. Only through your reaction could she do that.