President Bush to address the nation on Monday about Immigration

[JanaknJanet 0]

And it would just be our luck if all this goes down guess on very special date... 06 06 06

666... comming close... too much turmoil for me to think about.. ..

If hell is going to break loose... I just hope .. Jan is with me.. .......

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

And it would just be our luck if all this goes down guess on very special date... 06 06 06

666... comming close... too much turmoil for me to think about.. ..

If hell is going to break loose... I just hope .. Jan is with me.. .......

If hell is going to break loose? It's 666, of course hell is gonna break loose. Brace yourselves.

[yogib37 3]

I am not wasting my time watching. What would be the point? He will do what he wants to do anyways. It doesn't matter what we want.

Interesting thing is, a President with a 30% approval rating wants a guest worker program and members of Congress are in line waiting to be the one to give it to him.

yes that is sad.. It is true.. that is why it is important in November to go out and vote out the rubber stampers to the Bush admin.

Already I see a GOP control commited.. they have a couple more member on that commitee so they can just rubber stamp it

I think they did that on purpose cause if it is a tie they can break it and give the HEAD RETARD in the white house what he wants

[almaty 19]

And it would just be our luck if all this goes down guess on very special date... 06 06 06

666... comming close... too much turmoil for me to think about.. ..

If hell is going to break loose... I just hope .. Jan is with me.. .......

i hope my guns don't misfire .

[yogib37 3]

And it would just be our luck if all this goes down guess on very special date... 06 06 06

666... comming close... too much turmoil for me to think about.. ..

If hell is going to break loose... I just hope .. Jan is with me.. .......

i hope my guns don't misfire .

just dont point the guns at this bear

[dalegg 143]

I wonder how many people who voted him in are kicking themselves now?

I don't have to do that. Even though I voted for Bush I live in California, and California overwhelmingly gave our electorates to Kerry.

Frankly, I believe this country is a million times better place to live today than it was 100 years ago (when most of the immigrants were white). But the thing that gnaws at me is this: there were minimal barriers to migrating here back then. You paid for and boarded a ship, prayed that the a##hole at Ellis Island let you in, and that's it. No worries about status, nothing. And now that most of the migration is from south of the border, Asia, South America... almost coincidentally there is now this huge government bureacracy we must al navigate. Why did this change? I'm not suggesting race is a factor but it does make me wonder.

The 1935 Social Security act. 100 years ago this was the land of opportunity, but nobody who immigrated thought just being here meant they would be guaranteed a secure future.

As for companies hiring immigrants at $1 an hour or whatever...all that does is continue to destroy the economy of the USA....along with shipping jobs to other countries...it just all equates to lower paid/jobless consumers and high priced products for consumers with no jobs...

You are hitting it right on the head, which is why I think lower wages is simply inevitable- with or without illegal immigrants here.

What's the difference between a company for example lowering the wages of auto workers from $20 and hour to $8 an hour because of available cheap labor, or that company moving it's plant to another country and paying those workers $1 an hour, putting 1000 people out of work?

Some people say at least the people are contributing to the tax base if they are here, but even this isn't true. Someone making $8 an hour with a family isn't going to be paying federal income taxes and in fact will qualify for earned income credit. They might pay some social security taxes, but not nearly enough to compensate for social security benifits paid out later.

How do you stop China for example from paying their workers low wages? Don't buy goods made in China? Put a billion chinese people out of work? I don't think it's good for the US to have a bunch of nations in the world with starving people either. So, whether they are here or there, our wages are coming down.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

You are hitting it right on the head, which is why I think lower wages is simply inevitable- with or without illegal immigrants here.

What's the difference between a company for example lowering the wages of auto workers from $20 and hour to $8 an hour because of available cheap labor, or that company moving it's plant to another country and paying those workers $1 an hour, putting 1000 people out of work?

Some people say at least the people are contributing to the tax base if they are here, but even this isn't true. Someone making $8 an hour with a family isn't going to be paying federal income taxes and in fact will qualify for earned income credit. They might pay some social security taxes, but not nearly enough to compensate for social security benifits paid out later.

How do you stop China for example from paying their workers low wages? Don't buy goods made in China? Put a billion chinese people out of work? I don't think it's good for the US to have a bunch of nations in the world with starving people either. So, whether they are here or there, our wages are coming down.

That's only half the truth, though. You are not talking about the outrageously growing non-earned incomes and you are also not talking about the opposite trend of earned income development on the upper end of the spetrum. It's not that the total of what's paid to the folks working for any given employer is shrinking. The distribution of earned and non-earned income is just being re-arranged to the vast disadvantage of Joe Average.

How come, for example, that the former CFO of the firm I work for presided over the finances when the company stock lost a whopping 30% of it's value. He "resigned" in light of that situation. And yet he still collected more than 1.5 million dollars when he resigned despite of his piss-poor handling of his responsibilities. I am quite certain that he is in a similar position somewhere else in corporate America today. These people can't loose.

[dalegg 143]

You are hitting it right on the head, which is why I think lower wages is simply inevitable- with or without illegal immigrants here.

What's the difference between a company for example lowering the wages of auto workers from $20 and hour to $8 an hour because of available cheap labor, or that company moving it's plant to another country and paying those workers $1 an hour, putting 1000 people out of work?

Some people say at least the people are contributing to the tax base if they are here, but even this isn't true. Someone making $8 an hour with a family isn't going to be paying federal income taxes and in fact will qualify for earned income credit. They might pay some social security taxes, but not nearly enough to compensate for social security benifits paid out later.

How do you stop China for example from paying their workers low wages? Don't buy goods made in China? Put a billion chinese people out of work? I don't think it's good for the US to have a bunch of nations in the world with starving people either. So, whether they are here or there, our wages are coming down.

That's only half the truth, though. You are not talking about the outrageously growing non-earned incomes and you are also not talking about the opposite trend of earned income development on the upper end of the spetrum. It's not that the total of what's paid to the folks working for any given employer is shrinking. The distribution of earned and non-earned income is just being re-arranged to the vast disadvantage of Joe Average.

How come, for example, that the former CFO of the firm I work for presided over the finances when the company stock lost a whopping 30% of it's value. He "resigned" in light of that situation. And yet he still collected more than 1.5 million dollars when he resigned despite of his piss-poor handling of his responsibilities. I am quite certain that he is in a similar position somewhere else in corporate America today. These people can't loose.

They do this because of cheap immigrant labor? I don't understand the correlation.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

You are hitting it right on the head, which is why I think lower wages is simply inevitable- with or without illegal immigrants here.

What's the difference between a company for example lowering the wages of auto workers from $20 and hour to $8 an hour because of available cheap labor, or that company moving it's plant to another country and paying those workers $1 an hour, putting 1000 people out of work?

Some people say at least the people are contributing to the tax base if they are here, but even this isn't true. Someone making $8 an hour with a family isn't going to be paying federal income taxes and in fact will qualify for earned income credit. They might pay some social security taxes, but not nearly enough to compensate for social security benifits paid out later.

How do you stop China for example from paying their workers low wages? Don't buy goods made in China? Put a billion chinese people out of work? I don't think it's good for the US to have a bunch of nations in the world with starving people either. So, whether they are here or there, our wages are coming down.

That's only half the truth, though. You are not talking about the outrageously growing non-earned incomes and you are also not talking about the opposite trend of earned income development on the upper end of the spetrum. It's not that the total of what's paid to the folks working for any given employer is shrinking. The distribution of earned and non-earned income is just being re-arranged to the vast disadvantage of Joe Average.

How come, for example, that the former CFO of the firm I work for presided over the finances when the company stock lost a whopping 30% of it's value. He "resigned" in light of that situation. And yet he still collected more than 1.5 million dollars when he resigned despite of his piss-poor handling of his responsibilities. I am quite certain that he is in a similar position somewhere else in corporate America today. These people can't loose.

They do this because of cheap immigrant labor? I don't understand the correlation.

The low wages in China have little to do with falling wages here. There are more than enough jobs that are simply unexportable. Or can you demonstrate how a janitor's job, for example, would be shipped overseas?The wages in those jobs are not falling because of competition in cheap labor countries. They are falling due to corporate greed.

[dalegg 143]

The low wages in China have little to do with falling wages here. There are more than enough jobs that are simply unexportable. Or can you demonstrate how a janitor's job, for example, would be shipped overseas?

I believe I can:

Let's say there's a corporation where 500 people were making $15 hour to mass produce computer chips in a large company in California. The company that produces those chips gets fed up with being taxed to death and having to deal with Workers compensation benifits and decides to move their operation to Mexico where they can take advantage of low salaries.

#1- 500 people are now out of work and competing for other jobs, including janitorial work, restaurant service, and even service jobs such as telephone installers and plumbers. The more people competing for a single job drives the wages of that job lower. So instead of a telephone installer or a plumber making $20 an hour, maybe now they have to settle for $15 hour because the out of work computer chip worker is happy to make this salary.

#2- The factory is closed. It's janitorial staff is all out of work. They have to find other places work and are willing to work for less, thus driving the wages of janitors down.

#3- Now janitors, telephone installers, and plumbers are all making less money so they have to cut down on expenses. Maybe now they don't eat out for dinner as often. So less restaurant workers are needed. The out of work waiters (and restaurant janitors) are looking for jobs and are willing to work for less elsewhere.

Then of course people have less money to buy computers and televisions so they shop at places where they can get things cheaper, thus forcing other companies to lower their prices AND expenses- this means salaries.

This cycle continues on and on until every wage in every area is lowered, except of course for the CEOs at the top of the corporations who have managed to keep their company profitable by exporting the labor to another country. They've saved so much money for their company and caused such a rise in stock prices that they give him a $30 million bonus.

Edited May 13, 2006 by dalegg

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

This cycle continues on and on until every wage in every area is lowered, except of course for the CEOs at the top of the corporations who have managed to keep their company profitable by exporting the labor to another country. They've saved so much money for their company and caused such a rise in stock prices that they give him a $30 million bonus.

They get their fat bonuses one way or the other. That's what stinks. Hell, the executive thieves at AA or Delta, don't recall which, where caught with their hands in the cookie jar while fighting in bancruptcy court to have wage and benefit contracts thrown out. And as I pointed out above, our ex CFO left with a 7 figure bonus after having presided over the finances of a company that saw it's stock plummet some 30%.

[iceyspots 0]

Is there going to be one of those "state of the union" drinking games for this event?