Womens issue

[ace13 0]

Ok. ladies. What has feminism really gotten us? I am 27, thinking about kids, but have no idea how to be a mom and work full time. It is like they have 2 full time jobs. The sexual revolution has made girls sleazier than ever. Guys have less responsibility than ever, because women say it is their body and the guy is like "fine" you deal with it. Seriously, how are we better off? I wish I was 27 in the 50s sometimes. You got married. Your husband when to work. You took care of the house and kids. You had your ladies clubs. Sounds pretty ideal to me.

[Ladylethal 12]

Honestly, what I think happened to us that is positive is that we have a choice now. You can still be a full time mom and stay home taking care of the house and kids, but now if a woman doesn't want to, she can go to work and be as sucessful as any man.

Feminism really was overdone and today Feminists are just as much chavunists as man are/were, but not all woman MUST work all day and put their kids in second plan. I know for sure I want to work but I also want to be a mom, so I think that when I have a child I'll work less, part time job or something, so I can fulfill both sides of my life.

[ChristinaM 0]

lol

And you know, Ace, there's nothing to stop you living like that now - being a lady whose hubby earns money whilst she raises the kids and keeps the house the way she would like it.

What feminism gave us was the option and the choices. It means that we can go out to work if we want to, or we can stay home. It means that if we work, we have the right to ask for division of labour at home. It means that we can be in the kitchen because we want to be, not because society feels we should be. That's what it's all about to me.

Obvioiusly it doesn't always work that way, and there are women who work a fulltime job outside the home and still maintain the 1950's style home where they cook, clean and bring up the kids.

Having choices and options doesn't mean you absolutely have to use them, just make the choices appropriate for you.... because you can!

[Fuzzness 2]

here we go again

[ace13 0]

Who can actually afford to stay home these days? All of my friends that have had kids have to work and they all feel bad about it. It isn't liberating. They said it's exhausting. I feel like the average woman got screwed in this whole deal. Maybe if my husband was super rich....

As far as choices go-I went to college and graduated. I have a good job. But if I want to be a mom, I either have to give it all up or work 2 times as hard.

[pax 0]

What did feminism get us?

Gosh, not much. Only the right to vote, the right to own and control private property, the right to inherit, the right to control our own bodies, the right to higher education, the right to work in a profession of our own choosing, the right to not be bought and sold into marriage, the right to continue living dignified lives as divorcees and widows, the right to enter into relationships with other women if we are so inclined, the right to not be beaten or raped by our domestic partners, the right to say no to sexual activity, the right to hold political office, the right to travel freely...

So, yeah, not much. Sheesh, who needs all that?

[ChristinaM 0]

It IS hard.... but not impossible. There are still single-earner families out there. It's just hard to hold your grip on the middle class with one earner, as the housing and lending markets spiral out of control, wages don't keep up with inflation and school placement continues to be determined solely by location.

If you want it bad enough you'll make it happen somehow girlie, and you'll make it through. That's what everyone does, except the very rich.

[ivona 0]

oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my oh my

[Aymerlu 3]

I only wish I could have stayed home with my kids but it's impossible as a single mom. Really, I do not know many woman my age that can be stay at home moms. I work hard, but I work even harder to be a good mother to my kids and I know in my heart my kids will respect me for this in the future.

[Fischkoepfin 1]

So, it's the fault of feminists now that it is necessary for women to work?? With real incomes falling for the last 26 years, it comes as no surprise that the number of families relying on two incomes is increasing.

Most feminists were and are also in favor of social justice, which would include equal pay and equal chances of accumulating wealth. And social justice means that a woman has not only the choice to work or stay at home, but also the choice of affordable childcare facilities or of working at a job that doesn't discriminate against mothers.

As to men having become less willing to help out, that is an overgeneralization. I know many men who do much more in the household than their fathers would have ever done. Men who think they are somehow resisting feminist achievements by letting their wife pamper and serve them are misled to believe that their wife actually puts up with their antisocial attitude in the long run. Feminism also has made it easier for women to leave guys with the wron attitude...

[Jaylen Brit 0]

I gave up a pretty high paid job to stay at home with my kid - but that was my CHOICE - I did not have it foisted on me. I realised that, FOR ME, I couldnt give 110% at work and 100% at home and I didn't want to miss my child growing up, nor could I really afford to work just to pay the sitter (which is what it would have amounted to as my job was in management of an IT company and I was required to work long hours).

Sometimes it meant that I went without things but that was ok FOR ME. As long as the mortgage got paid and we had food and heat, I was fine with that.

For some poeple it isn't an option and thats cool too. Parents should do what SUITS THEM and their situations.

As for what we have gained..increased pay for one - the same pay for the same job - thats just fair but years ago it wasnt like that. Promotion prospects as well, now more equal than years ago.

Id agree tho it seems at times that by 'having it all' it appears we actually do MORE - though there are plenty of households where the woman doesn't feel she HAS to work what amounts to 2 jobs (home and paid employment) as her partner works WITH her to share the load.

[ace13 0]

So, it's the fault of feminists now that it is necessary for women to work?? With real incomes falling for the last 26 years, it comes as no surprise that the number of families relying on two incomes is increasing.

Most feminists were and are also in favor of social justice, which would include equal pay and equal chances of accumulating wealth. And social justice means that a woman has not only the choice to work or stay at home, but also the choice of affordable childcare facilities or of working at a job that doesn't discriminate against mothers.

As to men having become less willing to help out, that is an overgeneralization. I know many men who do much more in the household than their fathers would have ever done. Men who think they are somehow resisting feminist achievements by letting their wife pamper and serve them are misled to believe that their wife actually puts up with their antisocial attitude in the long run. Feminism also has made it easier for women to leave guys with the wron attitude...

Women are smart. They doubled the amount of applicants so naturally salaries would go down. In 1970, a Sears salesman made $17/hour!! They could raise a family selling washers and dryers.

[ChristinaM 0]

If there weren't jobs for these women, we'd have a 50% unemployment rate right now. There are more jobs to be filled, not simply twice as many applicants for the same number of jobs.

Read "The Two-Income Trap" by Elizabeth Warren, Ace. It's very interesting, even if you don't personally agree with the viewpoint.

Edited May 12, 2006 by clmarsh

[pax 0]

So the depression of wages has nothing to do with illegal immigration, the outsourcing of work to Asia, the swelling salaries of CEOs, the astronomical costs of health care...?

Whose labor kept this country from collapsing during World War II? When the country's manufacturing needs were incredibly high, the labor of women, many of whom were wives and mothers, kept the United States going during the war effort. And were, in many cases, unceremoniously asked to leave their jobs once the men came back.

Look, I'm the first to say that there are still a lot of flaws in the system. But don't blame the women who devoted their entire adult lives to see that women were treated fairly and equitably in many, many ways. I trust that very, very few women today, no matter how "traditional" they claim to be, would appreciate being turned away from a school or a voting booth because of their gender.

[ace13 0]

I agree with the men helping at home, but the point is who really wants to go home after work and work more. It sucks. You just want to relax. Sit down at the table and the food is there, etc. Man or woman. Americans work to damn much!!

So the depression of wages has nothing to do with illegal immigration, the outsourcing of work to Asia, the swelling salaries of CEOs, the astronomical costs of health care...?

Whose labor kept this country from collapsing during World War II? When the country's manufacturing needs were incredibly high, the labor of women, many of whom were wives and mothers, kept the United States going during the war effort. And were, in many cases, unceremoniously asked to leave their jobs once the men came back.

Look, I'm the first to say that there are still a lot of flaws in the system. But don't blame the women who devoted their entire adult lives to see that women were treated fairly and equitably in many, many ways. I trust that very, very few women today, no matter how "traditional" they claim to be, would appreciate being turned away from a school or a voting booth because of their gender.

Pax, I agree 100%. I want to be able to vote and have the choices you talk about. But most woman want to also be moms and it seems like now we have the resposibility of wife and mother and also full time worker. And the families suffer. I just am trying to figure out how to do it in my family and venting because it feels like I have worked so hard and life just seems more complicated.

Plus, I choose to marry an immigrant and even though he has a stable job, I don't think we could live on it.

Oh-correction--I said the families suffer. I ment to say the women suffer.