Question from friend married to an Egyptian

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

The whole idea of adoption being haram in Islam is not tied to the act of adoption, but that adoption laws can go aganst the God given rights of the child. Just as Islam served to protect the rights of women, it also gave protection of the rights of children. One of these rights is that as a child, you have the right to know your parentage. American adoption laws for years ignored the right of the child over the right of the biological parent.

Well as far as I am concerned, I think the advantages of adoption far outweigh the negatives. Have you seen the swollen orphanages in Morocco and Algeria with kids brimming at the seams and 15 year old girls hooking because they dont have parents? Have you seen the tiny kids with no homes in the streets of casa sniffing glue and running all around un protected? Who is thinking about their rights? They need homes, not a permanent bed in an orphanage. All I know is my h usbands grandma took in all kinds of kids and raised and loved them. Again, I think its easier to wife kids under the rug.I strongly disagree with the prohibition on adoption

[mybackpages 0]

The whole idea of adoption being haram in Islam is not tied to the act of adoption, but that adoption laws can go aganst the God given rights of the child. Just as Islam served to protect the rights of women, it also gave protection of the rights of children. One of these rights is that as a child, you have the right to know your parentage. American adoption laws for years ignored the right of the child over the right of the biological parent.

Well as far as I am concerned, I think the advantages of adoption far outweigh the negatives. Have you seen the swollen orphanages in Morocco and Algeria with kids brimming at the seams and 15 year old girls hooking because they dont have parents? Have you seen the tiny kids with no homes in the streets of casa sniffing glue and running all around un protected? Who is thinking about their rights? They need homes, not a permanent bed in an orphanage. All I know is my h usbands grandma took in all kinds of kids and raised and loved them. Again, I think its easier to wife kids under the rug.I strongly disagree with the prohibition on adoption

How can anyone justify the solution to a problem is to take away someone's rights?

By protecting the rights of the child, children are protected from the very conditions you describe.

And just to be clear, I never said adoption is bad, I said the adoption laws are bad.

[morocco4ever 63]

Maybe I am the one confused, but when I read the OP I thought she meant surrogate as in surrogate egg, which would be haram.

[Alhamdulillah 0]

Right, but the issue is with the fact that the blood mixes in the gestational period..... that's probably what the shaykh will argue

If she's doing it for her husband and he's against it then it shouldn't be an issue. There's a lot of hasanat in adoption

I've seen the argument that a man's sperm shouldn't go into a woman unless she is his wife... and thus permitting a co-wife but not anyone else from doing surrogacy.

Yep that's another issue as well.

[nana_356 0]

The whole idea of adoption being haram in Islam is not tied to the act of adoption, but that adoption laws can go aganst the God given rights of the child. Just as Islam served to protect the rights of women, it also gave protection of the rights of children. One of these rights is that as a child, you have the right to know your parentage. American adoption laws for years ignored the right of the child over the right of the biological parent.

Well as far as I am concerned, I think the advantages of adoption far outweigh the negatives. Have you seen the swollen orphanages in Morocco and Algeria with kids brimming at the seams and 15 year old girls hooking because they dont have parents? Have you seen the tiny kids with no homes in the streets of casa sniffing glue and running all around un protected? Who is thinking about their rights? They need homes, not a permanent bed in an orphanage. All I know is my h usbands grandma took in all kinds of kids and raised and loved them. Again, I think its easier to wife kids under the rug.I strongly disagree with the prohibition on adoption

me too, I really agree with you on this wahrania.

[Jenn! 918]

Maybe I am the one confused, but when I read the OP I thought she meant surrogate as in surrogate egg, which would be haram.

She said they would use her eggs and his sperm.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

The whole idea of adoption being haram in Islam is not tied to the act of adoption, but that adoption laws can go aganst the God given rights of the child. Just as Islam served to protect the rights of women, it also gave protection of the rights of children. One of these rights is that as a child, you have the right to know your parentage. American adoption laws for years ignored the right of the child over the right of the biological parent.

Well as far as I am concerned, I think the advantages of adoption far outweigh the negatives. Have you seen the swollen orphanages in Morocco and Algeria with kids brimming at the seams and 15 year old girls hooking because they dont have parents? Have you seen the tiny kids with no homes in the streets of casa sniffing glue and running all around un protected? Who is thinking about their rights? They need homes, not a permanent bed in an orphanage. All I know is my h usbands grandma took in all kinds of kids and raised and loved them. Again, I think its easier to wife kids under the rug.I strongly disagree with the prohibition on adoption

me too, I really agree with you on this wahrania.

There was no artificial insemination and ixy and surrogating being done back in the 600's when Islam came about. There are plenty of examples of slave girls bearing kids for barren women. Frankly, I think this whole surrogacy debate with this being haram and that being haram is a bunch of bunk. I think if you give a guy an option to have a baby and he is really in love with you, he will do his best to work things out with you. Babies are one thing. Love is another. Frankly I think some of these guys are coming up with BS excuses cause they want out of the marriage or relationship. If they marry you NOT being able to have kids, then having kids should NOT be an issue. Having kids IS NOT ENOUGH to keep a relationship together if someone wants out EVIDENCED by all the single parent families headed by women alone in MENA where the guy has taken off on his kids with his MENA wife and the women are tossed into poverty. From what I have seen,laws are just NOW being changed so women with a real marriage have some kind of protection.

I just get so aggravated when I see guys throwing up blocks against insemination etc. If he wants a baby and loves his American wife for real, he should do what they have to do to have a baby. I think alot of this resistance is because they dont want to stay with the American woman in the first place and want some stupid excuse to jet. This whole haram ####### in my opinion is bunk. I think religion gets used to justify decisions people wanna make anyway

[rachbel 2]

The whole idea of adoption being haram in Islam is not tied to the act of adoption, but that adoption laws can go aganst the God given rights of the child. Just as Islam served to protect the rights of women, it also gave protection of the rights of children. One of these rights is that as a child, you have the right to know your parentage. American adoption laws for years ignored the right of the child over the right of the biological parent.

Well as far as I am concerned, I think the advantages of adoption far outweigh the negatives. Have you seen the swollen orphanages in Morocco and Algeria with kids brimming at the seams and 15 year old girls hooking because they dont have parents? Have you seen the tiny kids with no homes in the streets of casa sniffing glue and running all around un protected? Who is thinking about their rights? They need homes, not a permanent bed in an orphanage. All I know is my h usbands grandma took in all kinds of kids and raised and loved them. Again, I think its easier to wife kids under the rug.I strongly disagree with the prohibition on adoption

me too, I really agree with you on this wahrania.

There was no artificial insemination and ixy and surrogating being done back in the 600's when Islam came about. There are plenty of examples of slave girls bearing kids for barren women. Frankly, I think this whole surrogacy debate with this being haram and that being haram is a bunch of bunk. I think if you give a guy an option to have a baby and he is really in love with you, he will do his best to work things out with you. Babies are one thing. Love is another. Frankly I think some of these guys are coming up with BS excuses cause they want out of the marriage or relationship. If they marry you NOT being able to have kids, then having kids should NOT be an issue. Having kids IS NOT ENOUGH to keep a relationship together if someone wants out EVIDENCED by all the single parent families headed by women alone in MENA where the guy has taken off on his kids with his MENA wife and the women are tossed into poverty. From what I have seen,laws are just NOW being changed so women with a real marriage have some kind of protection.

I just get so aggravated when I see guys throwing up blocks against insemination etc. If he wants a baby and loves his American wife for real, he should do what they have to do to have a baby. I think alot of this resistance is because they dont want to stay with the American woman in the first place and want some stupid excuse to jet. This whole haram ####### in my opinion is bunk. I think religion gets used to justify decisions people wanna make anyway

you totaly right, stupid excuse to get rid of this innocent American woman. that's how ignorant ppl misuse Islam for their own benefits and act like messengers or prophets.

[sandinista! 1,816]

The whole idea of adoption being haram in Islam is not tied to the act of adoption, but that adoption laws can go aganst the God given rights of the child. Just as Islam served to protect the rights of women, it also gave protection of the rights of children. One of these rights is that as a child, you have the right to know your parentage. American adoption laws for years ignored the right of the child over the right of the biological parent.

Well as far as I am concerned, I think the advantages of adoption far outweigh the negatives. Have you seen the swollen orphanages in Morocco and Algeria with kids brimming at the seams and 15 year old girls hooking because they dont have parents? Have you seen the tiny kids with no homes in the streets of casa sniffing glue and running all around un protected? Who is thinking about their rights? They need homes, not a permanent bed in an orphanage. All I know is my h usbands grandma took in all kinds of kids and raised and loved them. Again, I think its easier to wife kids under the rug.I strongly disagree with the prohibition on adoption

How can anyone justify the solution to a problem is to take away someone's rights?

By protecting the rights of the child, children are protected from the very conditions you describe.

And just to be clear, I never said adoption is bad, I said the adoption laws are bad.

unfortunately, what yr actually saying is not being heard by her. the enormous height of her soapbox may be a factor.

[LRA 0]

We shouldn't question the religous beliefs of others....sure it came about a long long time ago and these scientifical advances were no where to be found at that time...but that is the religion. Having said that, I think we should always do what we believe is good for us. Me personally, I would definitely go against the religion if this was the only way that I could have kids. But I do fear Him and would definitely have to live with the consequences...who knows what those will be...and I would have to answer one day for this. But personally, I think that He is merciful and understanding and well sometimes I think I could put up a pretty darn good arguement on why I did certain things albeit haram ;-) I am not overly religious, but maybe this friend of the OP is. And maybe his fear of going to he!! outweighs his desire to have kids any which way. Religion does funny things to people and some interpret the texts in different ways. So in the end we have to make our decision and live with it and answer for it.

True some people want out of the relationship if they are "forced" to have kids. And sometimes the gal could "forget" to take her pill ;-) Or the guy tells her I had surgery or I can't have kids. And 9 monts later, bam...junior is coming out. Sometimes it's to snag the other person, sometimes to keep them, sometimes to get $ out of them. But of course that would create animosity in the relationship and I think it would quickly spiral out of control and put an end to it.

But the reasoning that the guy wants out from the get go, so he refuses to have kids with her is flawed. Think about it, if the guy left his kids before in some MENA country or wherever he has no qualms about doing it again. She could have a church of kids and if this guy wants out he just tells her I'm outta here. Kinda like if he left you for her, what's to say he won't leave you for that one.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

We shouldn't question the religous beliefs of others....sure it came about a long long time ago and these scientifical advances were no where to be found at that time...but that is the religion. Having said that, I think we should always do what we believe is good for us. Me personally, I would definitely go against the religion if this was the only way that I could have kids. But I do fear Him and would definitely have to live with the consequences...who knows what those will be...and I would have to answer one day for this. But personally, I think that He is merciful and understanding and well sometimes I think I could put up a pretty darn good arguement on why I did certain things albeit haram ;-) I am not overly religious, but maybe this friend of the OP is. And maybe his fear of going to he!! outweighs his desire to have kids any which way. Religion does funny things to people and some interpret the texts in different ways. So in the end we have to make our decision and live with it and answer for it.

True some people want out of the relationship if they are "forced" to have kids. And sometimes the gal could "forget" to take her pill ;-) Or the guy tells her I had surgery or I can't have kids. And 9 monts later, bam...junior is coming out. Sometimes it's to snag the other person, sometimes to keep them, sometimes to get $ out of them. But of course that would create animosity in the relationship and I think it would quickly spiral out of control and put an end to it.

But the reasoning that the guy wants out from the get go, so he refuses to have kids with her is flawed. Think about it, if the guy left his kids before in some MENA country or wherever he has no qualms about doing it again. She could have a church of kids and if this guy wants out he just tells her I'm outta here. Kinda like if he left you for her, what's to say he won't leave you for that one.

I completely agree.

Kids will not keep a marriage together. But I DO think that some of these guys do play that card against their wives. They go into the marriage saying it doesnt matter ( when it always did) and 5 years down the road all of the sudden it DOES matter when they have their permanent residency and they start living the good life and kids are most certainly part of the equation. I have yet to see it NOT be part of the excuse package for leaving. I for one DO NOT think that having a baby with my husband will keep him with me. I think only love and commitment to me on his part will do that.

I just get really aggravated when its used an excuse or haram this and haram that when the guy knew from jumpstreet that she couldnt or if all of the sudden it becomes an arguement.

I do also agree that having one to keep him with you if he wants to leave is stupid( one of my friends did this with her Tunisian husband) He forced her by nagging to tie her tubes upon the babies birth and then took off on her which pisses me off to no end.

I have alot of mixed feeling about this subject and the whole excuse to leave a marriage over kids coupled with not being willing to compromise on ways to get the kids here smells fishy to me. As far as I am concerned, if the woman is willing to try and he wants kids and he really really loves her, he should bend around and help her.

The kids issue is and will always be a testy issue. For some , its even a test if he really loves you or not.. If he is wearing a condom in bed and you can have kids and you are in a steady relationship and you can afford children on your part and he is doing everything to prevent having kids with you,as far as I am concerned , HE IS NOT PLANNING ON STAYING. I think NOT WANTING KIDS in some circumstances can be a red flag that he is not with you for the long haul . I wonder what other think. I always hear from alot of my muslim male friends that wanting children with you is a good indicator he wants to stay.My feelings about this are mixed having several American friends raising arab children on their own and their spouses have left

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

The whole idea of adoption being haram in Islam is not tied to the act of adoption, but that adoption laws can go aganst the God given rights of the child. Just as Islam served to protect the rights of women, it also gave protection of the rights of children. One of these rights is that as a child, you have the right to know your parentage. American adoption laws for years ignored the right of the child over the right of the biological parent.

Well as far as I am concerned, I think the advantages of adoption far outweigh the negatives. Have you seen the swollen orphanages in Morocco and Algeria with kids brimming at the seams and 15 year old girls hooking because they dont have parents? Have you seen the tiny kids with no homes in the streets of casa sniffing glue and running all around un protected? Who is thinking about their rights? They need homes, not a permanent bed in an orphanage. All I know is my h usbands grandma took in all kinds of kids and raised and loved them. Again, I think its easier to wife kids under the rug.I strongly disagree with the prohibition on adoption

How can anyone justify the solution to a problem is to take away someone's rights?

By protecting the rights of the child, children are protected from the very conditions you describe.

And just to be clear, I never said adoption is bad, I said the adoption laws are bad.

I get your point. I just think alot of kids can be helped by being adopted and they cant be due to religion.

I think alot of people use religion when it suits what they wanna do

[mybackpages 0]

The whole idea of adoption being haram in Islam is not tied to the act of adoption, but that adoption laws can go aganst the God given rights of the child. Just as Islam served to protect the rights of women, it also gave protection of the rights of children. One of these rights is that as a child, you have the right to know your parentage. American adoption laws for years ignored the right of the child over the right of the biological parent.

Well as far as I am concerned, I think the advantages of adoption far outweigh the negatives. Have you seen the swollen orphanages in Morocco and Algeria with kids brimming at the seams and 15 year old girls hooking because they dont have parents? Have you seen the tiny kids with no homes in the streets of casa sniffing glue and running all around un protected? Who is thinking about their rights? They need homes, not a permanent bed in an orphanage. All I know is my h usbands grandma took in all kinds of kids and raised and loved them. Again, I think its easier to wife kids under the rug.I strongly disagree with the prohibition on adoption

How can anyone justify the solution to a problem is to take away someone's rights?

By protecting the rights of the child, children are protected from the very conditions you describe.

And just to be clear, I never said adoption is bad, I said the adoption laws are bad.

I get your point. I just think alot of kids can be helped by being adopted and they cant be due to religion.

I think alot of people use religion when it suits what they wanna do

I agree with you in sentiment! And we are 100% in agreement about people using religion!

[amal 4]

I want to chime in and say that in Islam, we are able to adopt children. There are no rules against adoption in Islam. The only stipulation is that the child must keep their given last name as they can not take yours. It is actually a great thing in the eyes of Allah for someone to adopt a child who is in need of a family.

My husband actually told me he is not against adoption but he wants to have kids of his own blood (which I do understand even though I can love ANY child as though it was my biological child). He did make it clear that it was not a religious thing but a personal request for us to have children naturally. I can respect that since I know there are many ppl who just aren't comfortable with adoption.

amal

[♥JP♥ 5]

And 9 monts later, bam...junior is coming out.

If it only felt that way!