Reflections on the sacrifices MENA Father's Make when they Immigrate

[KHPerfectMatch 1]

Peace and Greetings to everyone on Father's Day,

Knowing that it could be a matter of a few weeks until my SO leaves his children to come to live with me I am feeling very reflective and a bit melancholy on this Father's Day. I'm also dealing with the sadness I feel that my son's father (another MENA Male) is no longer in this country so my son has no one to visit today.

My SO is leaving behind 3 children. A 20 year old son, a 17 year old daughter, and a 6 year old daughter. I have never understood how he can be so calm about this, and in the beginning when we first met I hesitated to go on with the relationship when I realized I could not live in Egypt full time (something I was considering when we met) and I knew it would mean that he would leave his children in Egypt with their mother to come to me in the USA.

This is a huge sacrifice for him and one I cannot comprehend. I know that he has better opportunities to provide for them financially here, but is that all a father is judged on in the MENA??? Sometimes it seems so. I discussed this with his sisters who told me not to worry that Egyptians leave Egypt all the time to pursue a better income and that many children who's parents aren't even divorced are living alone with their Mom's while Dad works in the Gulf or Saudi, etc. Like this makes it OK for the kids????? I don't THINK so!

I just don't get it. One of the reasons I decided I couldn't live in Egypt full time (besides the cotton mattresses!!!!) was the need I felt to be near my 20 year old son. He maybe be an "adult" by legal standards, but he's certainly not got his life in order and needs a guiding hand. Of course with his father back in the ME he only has me for this guidance, but I just can't imagine how my SO can cope with leaving a 6 year old behind, even if she has her Mom and a huge extended family!

He thinks that he can visit them all the time... (oh yeah, right, it's only 8,000 miles!) and that I guess is how he copes with this. I am torn between being grateful for the sacrifice he's making to be with me, and puzzled that he's willing to do it.

Wondering if anyone else is dealing with this issue, or if any of the MENA guys on this group have any insight for me about how they have (or might) deal with this, or how I can understand his willingness to do this in a positive light.

I know that father's play a bit of a different role in MENA than they traditionally do here, but I still believe that kids want time with their parents more than material things 90% of the time. He's telling me they are "happy for him"... and I'm just not buying it... I think they are just too polite to say otherwise.

I just wish I knew if we'd ever be able to bring them here to visit. Between the USCIS and their Mom I'm guessing this will be nearly impossible and certainly difficult. Especially the 20 year old boy... doubtful we'll ever get him here... (maybe it's good that he's the one who is LEAST interested in coming here)...

Anyway, Happy Fafther's Day to all the Dad's on this group and for those of you who are apart today, may Allah bring you together with your loved ones soon and keep you together forever, insha'allah.

Salaam,

Karamella

[Alhamdulillah 0]

My hubby doesn't have children so I can't really answer for him but my kids are the only reason he's here instead of me going there. I have to wait until they're old enough to come with me before I can move overseas and then they can either come with me or stay here and visit when they can. It'll be hard if they choose not to come with me but I feel like they will probably follow me since they are both pretty fascinated at the idea of traveling abroad, even now at this young age.

BTW, I just was just tripping out over the Baskin Robbins sign in the background of your pic I brought home بيبسي labels from Egypt, as well as other american labels in Arabic just for the memories

[SaadBell 0]

Totally there, my husband has 4 children I have one, and he will leave Kuwait, he is thinking of bringing the boys, the youngest daughter is an American citizen already. The youngest daughter and I are both are American citizens, we need the rest to become citizens. We would like all the children to have a good education in America, my husband loves it here. It is a hard thing; my husband doesn’t say too much about it, he has the most amazing control over his emotions. Hang in there it will all work out, and maybe his children can come and stay for a little bit in America, gives kids a great start in life to be able to travel and experiences other ways of life.

[polarbear 0]

My husband doesn't have any kids, but his father had 6 and spent 10 years of his youth in Saudi Arabia... he was basically raised by an uncle and his mother ( and his older sisters ). From the way he talks about it, it is considered normal and the extended family provided a father figure. He is also very proud of his father and close to him in his old age. He in turn acts as a bit of a father figure to some of his neices and nephews and it's very normal in his family to travel abroad - in fact, none of his brothers stayed in Egypt past the age of 25, including him. He is close to his extended family.

I don't know if this helps at all, but it's also seems to be different for the fathers. And yes, they have a heavy financial responsiblities put on by culture and expectations that force them to make that choice.

[KHPerfectMatch 1]

Thanks to everyone who replied. I'm surprised this is such a low response topic... Guess most of the VJ members are younger than me and my SO and don't have this issue... or??? Who knows...

Allahuallam, with the difficult economic times Egyptians are facing maybe this is the time for H to come this direction and be in a better position to provide for his children even if it is from afar.

Karamella

[sarahaziz 0]

I don't want to shed a negative opinion/view here but I'm thinking If he can leave a 6 year old behind and kids at an age who need a father what more importance could he give to a wife? I do wish you and your spouse a happy outcome no matter what. God bless.

[Alhamdulillah 0]

I don't want to shed a negative opinion/view here but I'm thinking If he can leave a 6 year old behind and kids at an age who need a father what more importance could he give to a wife? I do wish you and your spouse a happy outcome no matter what. God bless.

Ppl get divorced.... what's a man to do then if he's divorced from his wife? Never marry another woman or live in his ex-wife's basement so he isn't perceived as "leaving" his children?

[KHPerfectMatch 1]

ROFLOL - living in the basement of his ex-wife!!!!

I know what Sarah is saying.... but of course I didn't give all the facts... and considering he went back to his wife 3 times (the limit in Islam that they can remarry unless she remarries someone else and divorces...) for the sake of the children, just to have the same situation (misery) inflicted on him I have to say he truly gave it the "Old College Try"!

He sees it as having sacrificed about 18 years of his life in a loveless marriage for the sake of his children and now he has to move on. He had hoped when he met me to convince me to stay in Egypt. But I could not. And by time I made up my mind 100%, which I had warned him from the beginning was the most likely scenario, he already decided he was smitten and had to go where ever I went... or at least that's how the story goes... (Egyptian romance/drama/love story)

It is TOTALLY possible that he will dump me some day too..... ANYTHING is possible... and I've been in the arab/muslim/immigrant community for a zillion years and have seen it happen to myself and others TOO MANY TIMES.............

My ex-husband (who was being deported from the USA) chose an immigrant visa to Canada over going home to Egypt for his 2 years mandatory stay (J-1 Visa holder) and can NEVER return to the USA, (unless there is a miracle of Allah) even when it meant he didn't see either of his parents (for over 10 years) and they passed away without EVER seeing him again.... That to me was unacceptable and was the last straw. If he cared more about North America residency than his parents how could I expect him to ever care much about me when I was no longer "useful" to him.

I also think the fact that H doesn't get to spend much time with his kids IN EGYPT makes it seem more acceptable to him to leave. I was there for 2 months this year and we barely got to spend more than a few hours or so with them on the days we saw them.

He's paying a big price to follow his heart and I just pray that I'm worth it...

[sarahaziz 0]

That's horrible 18 years of a loveless marriage I can't imagine that life.

Alhamdulilah - People get divorced yes I'm not talking about that. Just think about your own kids if you have them. Look through their viewpoint in life of their father. It's not her responsibility to take care of his kids but she is honestly concerned.

The situation make sense now though since he doesn't get to see them alot anyways while he IS there. I can see why it's easy to leave then.

[Nasturtium 500]

Neither one of us have children or else I would have answered you

[KHPerfectMatch 1]

That's horrible 18 years of a loveless marriage I can't imagine that life.

Alhamdulilah - People get divorced yes I'm not talking about that. Just think about your own kids if you have them. Look through their viewpoint in life of their father. It's not her responsibility to take care of his kids but she is honestly concerned.

The situation make sense now though since he doesn't get to see them alot anyways while he IS there. I can see why it's easy to leave then.

Ma'sha'allah I think I didn't write my original post very well.... I have a 20 year old son who's father abandoned him (another MENA male!) so I KNOW BETTER THAN MOST what a child feels like when his father abandons him. He came back into my son's life when my son was school age and has been only a NEGATIVE influence on him ever since. He's now back in the Middle East, which I believe is actually better for my son, but it hurts my son nevertheless that his father has played NO ROLE in parenting him EVER. And didn't even tell him when he decided to leave back to the Middle East, AND has never contacted him ONCE since he left...

I feel so guilty at times about chosing this man as a father for my son knowing full well that he wasn't practicing his faith (I don't trust ANYONE who isn't any more!) and sure enough he went from a "wild and crazy guy" when we were in college to where he is today, an alcoholic and a drug addict, penniless and sent back to his home country by his brothers because he has brought so much shame on the family here.

I have no idea what you mean about it not being her responsibility to care for their children. If you mean financially I agree (Islamically speaking) and she's going to ride that horse to the end of time, since supporting the kids means he supports her as well (basically). And even THAT I don't begrudge her. She is doing a great job of raising the kids (as far as I can tell) and she was smart enough to ask to meet me before she allowed the kids to stay for prolonged periods of time around me. So I give her credit for that as well. I'd do the same (if I had EVER had the chance). I would never have married a man who did NOT support his kids from a previous marriage because I've BEEN a single Mom who got every penny of child support ever paid through the State's Child Support Enforcement Program.

And finally it is NOT easy for him to leave them, but he has decided that he will. There's a BIG difference between deciding to do something and it being EASY. Not the same at all....

All through this process from day one I've only asked "Allah let whatever is best for ALL CONCERNED happen". Not what is best for me, but for ALL CONCERNED. So Alhamdulillah, however it turns out.

Salaam,

Karamella

[Alhamdulillah 0]

That's horrible 18 years of a loveless marriage I can't imagine that life.

Alhamdulilah - People get divorced yes I'm not talking about that. Just think about your own kids if you have them. Look through their viewpoint in life of their father. It's not her responsibility to take care of his kids but she is honestly concerned.

The situation make sense now though since he doesn't get to see them alot anyways while he IS there. I can see why it's easy to leave then.

I do have children and their father nevers sees them, calls them or offers any help in supporting them so I do know how that feels. I also know what it's like to have divorced parents and not to see one's father because of living with my mom..... but I wouldn't think it was fair to say that my dad was bad or couldn't be happy again with another woman because he didn't live with my mom anymore. I guess I just mis-read what you wrote.

[anitacastillo 0]

My husband and I do not have children - so this is not an issue for us. He is not MENA - so maybe I culturally see things differently. And thanks be to God my parents are still together and in love.

BUT overall, I think it is very sad for a father to leave a child's life. We all need our fathers. There are many fathers who live in the same state and country and walk out of their children's lives. And putting an ocean between them makes it even more different to have any contact.

[KHPerfectMatch 1]

That's horrible 18 years of a loveless marriage I can't imagine that life.

Alhamdulilah - People get divorced yes I'm not talking about that. Just think about your own kids if you have them. Look through their viewpoint in life of their father. It's not her responsibility to take care of his kids but she is honestly concerned.

The situation make sense now though since he doesn't get to see them alot anyways while he IS there. I can see why it's easy to leave then.

I do have children and their father nevers sees them, calls them or offers any help in supporting them so I do know how that feels. I also know what it's like to have divorced parents and not to see one's father because of living with my mom..... but I wouldn't think it was fair to say that my dad was bad or couldn't be happy again with another woman because he didn't live with my mom anymore. I guess I just mis-read what you wrote.

Oh I think you understand me completely, I was replying to the previous comment, not yours... I'm still laughing about him living in his ex-s basement so he could prove he didn't abandon them! That picture will be stuck in my head for SOME time... I keep remembering the little cubbie hole the Haris and his family lived in where we rented a flat during my last trip... Oh well, it isn't going to happen so I can let that one go...

K

[KHPerfectMatch 1]

My husband and I do not have children - so this is not an issue for us. He is not MENA - so maybe I culturally see things differently. And thanks be to God my parents are still together and in love.

BUT overall, I think it is very sad for a father to leave a child's life. We all need our fathers. There are many fathers who live in the same state and country and walk out of their children's lives. And putting an ocean between them makes it even more different to have any contact.

No one said it wasn't sad, in fact I think the point of this topic IS the sadness. However I take offense at your insinuation that what he is doing is "walking out of their lives"... he's moving to another city that happens to be in another country. He will still be supporting them financially, and we have already set up the computer for the kids to talk to us online with the webcam as often as we can find a mutually suitable time that fits their school schedule and his work schedule. He's leaving them his mobile and mine so we can text and call them any time. We plan to take month long trips every year until we can either get them over here for visits or until we start our retirement there insha'allah in the next 8-10 years.

Yes it's sad, that's a given.