Palestinians barred from Dead Sea beaches

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

It is madness and disgusting, always fighting for land, is it worth bloodshed? It isn’t even real good land, the whole thing just makes me sick. Like children fighting over toys, the winner gets all the goodies, the loser gets nothing. Even if you went in and spilt it up evenly someone would not be happy. It is about two different cultures coming together for the good of all people, and until that happens, you will see this disgusting waste of life’s continue. Learn from Gandhi, there are ways other than violence and it works.

I cannot teach you violence, as I do not myself believe in it. I can only teach you not to bow your heads before any one even at the cost of your life.

Mahatma Gandhi

When I despair, I remember that all through history the ways of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. Think of it--always.

Mahatma Gandhi

I have to point out that the people who have lived on this land for millennia have opinions of their own about it which are in total disagreement with you about Palestine being "not real good land." First of all, this is their beloved home. Now you may have some idea (shared by many who have never seen it or seen only photos of parts of it) that it is all barren rocky desert, but this is not so. The area has a lot of very arable land, well suited to dryland farming, which has supported its population very well for centuries. I can post some pics if you like.

I have heard the comparison to "children fighting over toys" made before -- I am ashamed to say that I once held opinions like that myself. But that was before I knew what I know now. I have to tell you -- such analogies are shallow and dismissive, based on total ignorance of the seriousness of the problem, as well as not understanding the history and progression of the conflict.

As for Gandhi -- well, he expressed his sympathies for Jews as a people, for being subjected to inhuman treatment and persecution for a long time. But he actually rejected the whole idea of Zionism and creating a Jewish homeland by force in Palestine:

"My sympathy does not blind me to the requirements of justice. The cry for the national home for the Jews does not make much appeal to me. The sanction for it is sought in the Bible and in the tenacity with which the Jews have hankered after their return to Palestine. Why should they not, like other peoples of the earth, make that country their home where they are born and where they earn their livelihood?"

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

"Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French. It is wrong and inhuman to impose the Jews on the Arabs... Surely it would be a crime against humanity to reduce the proud Arabs so that Palestine can be restored to the Jews partly or wholly as their national home."

"But in my opinion, they [the Jews] have erred grievously in seeking to impose themselves on Palestine with the aid of America and Britain and now with the aid of naked terrorism... Why should they depend on American money or British arms for forcing themselves on an unwelcome land? Why should they resort to terrorism to make good their forcible landing in Palestine?

"What is the solution to the Palestine problem?"

"It has become a problem which seems almost insoluble. If I were a Jew, I would tell them: 'Do not be so silly as to resort to terrorism...' The Jews should meet the Arabs, make friends with them and not depend on British aid or American aid, save what descends from Jehovah."

-Mahatma Gandhi

Edited June 19, 2008 by wife_of_mahmoud

[SaadBell 0]

I have been there, and I understand it is their homeland, like my Grandparents who homeland is Spain, but we left because the quality of life was not good. Germany was home to many Jews for many centuries before the holocaust. Indians also had America, and of course the white man took that from them, it sucks and it happens all the time, which is the world. We as a human race need to learn to share our land, but that won’t happen in my time. To me nothing is worth bloodshed, period, no one wins, homeland, give that idea up, the world is our homeland.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I have been there, and I understand it is their homeland, like my Grandparents who homeland is Spain, but we left because the quality of life was not good. Germany was home to many Jews for many centuries before the holocaust. Indians also had America, and of course the white man took that from them, it sucks and it happens all the time, which is the world. We as a human race need to learn to share our land, but that won’t happen in my time. To me nothing is worth bloodshed, period, no one wins, homeland, give that idea up, the world is our homeland.

I adamantly disagree with the idea that we should shrug our collective shoulders and say "Well it happens all the time." World War II was fought and tens of millions died, and we said "never again." The nations of the world agreed that the taking of territory by force and ethnic cleansing were wrong -- even evil -- and should not be tolerated ever again. The international community agreed on laws to provide for action against this type of thing. Just because certain powers continue to attempt such behavior does not mean we should condone it, ignore it, or stop opposing it. Or didn't we mean all that stuff about justice and law and order ?

You may consider yourself a citizen of the world, and may be unwilling to fight for your only home. That's your choice. But the reality is: plenty of other people are willing to fight for what's theirs. You are not living under occupation, you don't have an army trying to shove you and your family and all your people off your land. You are free to go on vacation and come back without any worry that a bunch of illegal settlers have taken over your house and farm or business while you're gone, or will attack you even as you still stay inside your home, trying to drive you out. You have a homeland that no one's trying to take from you by force. So I'm just saying that you might feel quite a bit differently about the issue if the shoe was on your foot.

Again, the solution to this conflict is laid out in international law. Peace is not going to happen without pressure from the international community, and certainly not by looking the other way until everyone bleeds to death. One side has continued to refuse to implement international law, has continued to violate hundreds of UN resolutions and the Geneva Convention, has been empowered to impose its will unilaterally, and has been shielded from international repercussions for its continued flouting of world consensus. This is the problem, and there is no solution without addressing it.

[SaadBell 0]

You may consider yourself a citizen of the world, and may be unwilling to fight for your only home. That's your choice. But the reality is: plenty of other people are willing to fight for what's theirs. You are not living under occupation, you don't have an army trying to shove you and your family and all your people off your land. You are free to go on vacation and come back without any worry that a bunch of illegal settlers have taken over your house and farm or business while you're gone, or will attack you even as you still stay inside your home, trying to drive you out. You have a homeland that no one's trying to take from you by force. So I'm just saying that you might feel quite a bit differently about the issue if the shoe was on your foot.

Very true, but it wasn't always that way for my family. My Great grandmother was a slave in Spain, and yes they had slaves. My Great Grandmother’s family sold her into slavery, and she was bought from a family that did horrible things to her. She married young to some older man still she was indentured to the family. She escaped with her husband and they boarded a ship to Hawaii to pick sugar cane, and they were indentured to the sugar cane plantation. On the trip her husband died, they threw him over board and she arrived in Hawaii alone with a new baby she had had. Her life was extremely hard and of course she would talk of Spain, but life is very hard for our people and one had to escape in order to have a better life. Does it make it right, or course not, it is awful, but violence is never a solution to any problem. So Spain is my family’s homeland, does that give me the right to kill someone over it, of course not. Someone has to give in, and the problem is no one is going to do it. So you will continue to have life’s lost for land, which to me is a waste. What I don’t understand is why people think they have to have a certain piece of land, or they will die, if that was my family, we would still be in Spain living in sheer poverty. I always know where I came from, but it does not mean it will define me; I could live almost anywhere as long as I have decent job and food. Spain didn’t do it for my family, so they moved and found somewhere they could. The problem always is to find a place that you can live a decent life.

[mawilson 2,133]

Very true, but it wasn't always that way for my family. My Great grandmother was a slave in Spain, and yes they had slaves. My Great Grandmother’s family sold her into slavery, and she was bought from a family that did horrible things to her. She married young to some older man still she was indentured to the family. She escaped with her husband and they boarded a ship to Hawaii to pick sugar cane, and they were indentured to the sugar cane plantation. On the trip her husband died, they threw him over board and she arrived in Hawaii alone with a new baby she had had. Her life was extremely hard and of course she would talk of Spain, but life is very hard for our people and one had to escape in order to have a better life. Does it make it right, or course not, it is awful, but violence is never a solution to any problem. So Spain is my family’s homeland, does that give me the right to kill someone over it, of course not. Someone has to give in, and the problem is no one is going to do it. So you will continue to have life’s lost for land, which to me is a waste. What I don’t understand is why people think they have to have a certain piece of land, or they will die, if that was my family, we would still be in Spain living in sheer poverty. I always know where I came from, but it does not mean it will define me; I could live almost anywhere as long as I have decent job and food. Spain didn’t do it for my family, so they moved and found somewhere they could. The problem always is to find a place that you can live a decent life.

Fighting has gotten them nowhere.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Very true, but it wasn't always that way for my family. My Great grandmother was a slave in Spain, and yes they had slaves. My Great Grandmother’s family sold her into slavery, and she was bought from a family that did horrible things to her. She married young to some older man still she was indentured to the family. She escaped with her husband and they boarded a ship to Hawaii to pick sugar cane, and they were indentured to the sugar cane plantation. On the trip her husband died, they threw him over board and she arrived in Hawaii alone with a new baby she had had. Her life was extremely hard and of course she would talk of Spain, but life is very hard for our people and one had to escape in order to have a better life. Does it make it right, or course not, it is awful, but violence is never a solution to any problem. So Spain is my family’s homeland, does that give me the right to kill someone over it, of course not. Someone has to give in, and the problem is no one is going to do it. So you will continue to have life’s lost for land, which to me is a waste. What I don’t understand is why people think they have to have a certain piece of land, or they will die, if that was my family, we would still be in Spain living in sheer poverty. I always know where I came from, but it does not mean it will define me; I could live almost anywhere as long as I have decent job and food. Spain didn’t do it for my family, so they moved and found somewhere they could. The problem always is to find a place that you can live a decent life.

That's a very sad story.

However, it is rather simplistic to believe that the answer to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is simply to tell millions of Palestinians to just move somewhere else. The solution has already been enshrined in international law. The only sensible thing to do is to implement it.

[mawilson 2,133]

However, it is rather simplistic to believe that the answer to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is simply to tell millions of Palestinians to just move somewhere else. The solution has already been enshrined in international law. The only sensible thing to do is to implement it.

If it hasn't been done by now, I doubt things will change in the future.

Palestinians have already lost the spotlight to world recession, financial and

energy crises, record-high oil and food prices. The world is going to have

more important problems in the future than solving the Palestinian question.

[SaadBell 0]

Yes I know you can’t have everyone just leave and the whole thing makes me crazy. I should explain that my mother’s family side is Basque, which is an ethnic group who use to inhabit parts of the north and central Spain and southwestern France. They fight all the time for their homeland, and large numbers of them have left for other parts of the world, due to economic or political reasons. France and Spain refuse to give up the land and of course this means war and life’s lost. For the Basque homeland is now only a dream and we are currently split in two and ruled by France and Spain. Saying this, would I die to have our homeland back HELL NO. This is an amazingly old culture, our language is unrelated to any other language on the planet, our culture is unrelated to any culture, and scientists, though DNA analysis and archeological evidence, have determined that the Basque people have lived in the same area at least since the stone-age. The Basque people have been fighting for their own homeland for a long time and of course with no success. So yes I do understand the conflict, but again nothing is worth bloodshed, as far as I am concern, maybe since my people have lost our homeland many moons ago, I just feel different, and when my mother took me for the first time and she said as we arrived, this is your homeland, I never felt like that, even America to me is just a place I live for the time. The world is my homeland. Just like Ireland, we never seem to get it, Israel has done many bad things, but also some good, do they have the right to take over the land, of course not, but violence has done nothing to change a thing. Sad so very very sad. Why we can't all share our planet, sometimes I wish some aliens would come down and threaten our world than maybe we would come together as a human race for once.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

However, it is rather simplistic to believe that the answer to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is simply to tell millions of Palestinians to just move somewhere else. The solution has already been enshrined in international law. The only sensible thing to do is to implement it.

If it hasn't been done by now, I doubt things will change in the future.

Palestinians have already lost the spotlight to world recession, financial and

energy crises, record-high oil and food prices. The world is going to have

more important problems in the future than solving the Palestinian question.

That would be your own wishful thinking -- that the world would just look somewhere else -- anywhere else -- and ignore Israel as it finishes seizing all of the land and driving out the rest of the native inhabitants. We'll see if your wish will come true.

Again, the only real answer to this conflict is already written in international law.

[mawilson 2,133]

However, it is rather simplistic to believe that the answer to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is simply to tell millions of Palestinians to just move somewhere else. The solution has already been enshrined in international law. The only sensible thing to do is to implement it.

If it hasn't been done by now, I doubt things will change in the future.

Palestinians have already lost the spotlight to world recession, financial and

energy crises, record-high oil and food prices. The world is going to have

more important problems in the future than solving the Palestinian question.

That would be your own wishful thinking -- that the world would just look somewhere else -- anywhere else -- and ignore Israel as it finishes seizing all of the land and driving out the rest of the native inhabitants. We'll see if your wish will come true.

I'm just a realist. The world has looked away before - what's going to change now or 20 years from now?

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I'm just a realist. The world has looked away before - what's going to change now or 20 years from now?

You are not facing reality. 88 U.N. Security Council resolutions and nearly 450 General Assembly resolutions have been passed that condemned, criticized or otherwise opposed Israel's actions. It is Israel and the U.S. that have "looked away" from the rest of world opinion on the matter.

[mawilson 2,133]

I'm just a realist. The world has looked away before - what's going to change now or 20 years from now?

You are not facing reality. 88 U.N. Security Council resolutions and nearly 450 General Assembly resolutions have been passed that condemned, criticized or otherwise opposed Israel's actions. It is Israel and the U.S. that have "looked away" from the rest of world opinion on the matter.

"88 U.N. Security Council resolutions and nearly 450 General Assembly resolutions" haven't stopped Israel, have they?

I think you're not facing reality if you believe that "international law" is going to fix everything.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I'm just a realist. The world has looked away before - what's going to change now or 20 years from now?

You are not facing reality. 88 U.N. Security Council resolutions and nearly 450 General Assembly resolutions have been passed that condemned, criticized or otherwise opposed Israel's actions. It is Israel and the U.S. that have "looked away" from the rest of world opinion on the matter.

"88 U.N. Security Council resolutions and nearly 450 General Assembly resolutions" haven't stopped Israel, have they?

I think you're not facing reality if you believe that "international law" is going to fix everything.

First you claimed the world looked away. Now you claim that world opinion doesn't matter. As I said before, this is wishful thinking on your part.

International law is the only solution to the conflict. Even most Israelis agree that the occupation/annexation of the West Bank and Israel's aggressions in Lebanon and Syria have caused nothing but trouble for the State of Israel, and greatly endangered its people. The good news is --Zionist ideology is shared by a small (but very vocal) minority that is shrinking by the hour.

[Ban Hammer 13,206]

I'm just a realist. The world has looked away before - what's going to change now or 20 years from now?

You are not facing reality. 88 U.N. Security Council resolutions and nearly 450 General Assembly resolutions have been passed that condemned, criticized or otherwise opposed Israel's actions. It is Israel and the U.S. that have "looked away" from the rest of world opinion on the matter.

"88 U.N. Security Council resolutions and nearly 450 General Assembly resolutions" haven't stopped Israel, have they?

I think you're not facing reality if you believe that "international law" is going to fix everything.

un resolutions. if you don't stop, we'll pass another!