Palestinians barred from Dead Sea beaches

[Saddle Bronc 124]

Rediverting back to tatreez topic (which MK had stated as "more fun")--some of the tatreez you showed bears some resemblance to mirrorworks (where small mirrors encircled by cloth are sewn onto the clothing); any connection (other than coincidental) between the two?

[mawilson 2,133]

Oh can they now ? International law says the refugees have the right to return to their property. But in violation of that law and the Geneva Convention, Israel refuses to let them.

Israel also prevents West Bank Palestinians from traveling to Gaza, and prevents most Gaza Palestinians from traveling anywhere at all outside Gaza (Israel has exerted strong pressure on Egypt, via its American friends, to keep the Rafah border closed.) Many Palestinians in Gaza have received full scholarships to study in other countries, or need to travel abroad for urgent medical care, but Israel refuses to issue them travel permits so that they may pass through Israeli-controlled borders. Israel even refused to issue permits to the Gaza scholars who had been awarded the prestigious Fulbright scholarships -- a policy so blatantly outrageous that it actually got attention in the United States, and the U.S. State Department finally started squawking.

Israel didn't prevent your fiance/husband from travelling to the U.S., did they? Or is he from the West Bank?

[bhajishah 4]

Even Sr Bush had the ballz to stand up and say its wrong and stop the invasion and violations..He later backed down because of public opinion etc..from those who get mind controlled so easily by stuff and cant be real critical thinkers etc.. so it goes.. It will be another campaign about safety while everyone keeps on ignoring that our gas and factories and etcteras are going to China while they build thier big war machine and space programs..

[Saddle Bronc 124]

Oh can they now ? International law says the refugees have the right to return to their property. But in violation of that law and the Geneva Convention, Israel refuses to let them.

Israel also prevents West Bank Palestinians from traveling to Gaza, and prevents most Gaza Palestinians from traveling anywhere at all outside Gaza (Israel has exerted strong pressure on Egypt, via its American friends, to keep the Rafah border closed.) Many Palestinians in Gaza have received full scholarships to study in other countries, or need to travel abroad for urgent medical care, but Israel refuses to issue them travel permits so that they may pass through Israeli-controlled borders. Israel even refused to issue permits to the Gaza scholars who had been awarded the prestigious Fulbright scholarships -- a policy so blatantly outrageous that it actually got attention in the United States, and the U.S. State Department finally started squawking.

Israel didn't prevent your fiance/husband from travelling to the U.S., did they? Or is he from the West Bank?

Mark, don't give MK an excuse to repost her 2005 rant-thread about the difficulties he faced going to the US embassy.

[mawilson 2,133]

Oh can they now ? International law says the refugees have the right to return to their property. But in violation of that law and the Geneva Convention, Israel refuses to let them.

Israel also prevents West Bank Palestinians from traveling to Gaza, and prevents most Gaza Palestinians from traveling anywhere at all outside Gaza (Israel has exerted strong pressure on Egypt, via its American friends, to keep the Rafah border closed.) Many Palestinians in Gaza have received full scholarships to study in other countries, or need to travel abroad for urgent medical care, but Israel refuses to issue them travel permits so that they may pass through Israeli-controlled borders. Israel even refused to issue permits to the Gaza scholars who had been awarded the prestigious Fulbright scholarships -- a policy so blatantly outrageous that it actually got attention in the United States, and the U.S. State Department finally started squawking.

Israel didn't prevent your fiance/husband from travelling to the U.S., did they? Or is he from the West Bank?

Mark, don't give MK an excuse to repost her 2005 rant-thread about the difficulties he faced going to the US embassy.

Difficult or not, it happened, so it's not impossible.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

That's amazing that Palestineans still do tatreez for market by hand-- in jordan it's mostly machine-done... as far as what's in the markets. Many people don't even have a clue as to how to do it anymore. Only small villagers tend to have an idea, and as you said many girls feel they are "too modern" to do it.

Yeah! Show me your pics when you get them. Did you ever learn to do this? I figured I would learn from Nadia.

I can cross-stitch but have never tried to do tatreez-style. Everyone I've given tatreez has absolutely loved it -- wall hangings with the word "Jerusalem" or "Bethlehem" or "Palestine" are especially popular with my family and friends. Here are some of the pieces I have:

Tatreez shawl

Shawl detail

Table Mat

Table Mat

Pillows

Table Runner

Table Runner

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Rediverting back to tatreez topic (which MK had stated as "more fun")--some of the tatreez you showed bears some resemblance to mirrorworks (where small mirrors encircled by cloth are sewn onto the clothing); any connection (other than coincidental) between the two?

No connection that I know of, but I haven't studied the history of the embroidered garment. Of course if you go back far enough, just about everything is related in some way.

I used to have a mirrorworks shirt that was made in India -- it was very beautiful. But if I recall correctly, it used a different type of stitch rather than cross-stitch.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Oh can they now ? International law says the refugees have the right to return to their property. But in violation of that law and the Geneva Convention, Israel refuses to let them.

Israel also prevents West Bank Palestinians from traveling to Gaza, and prevents most Gaza Palestinians from traveling anywhere at all outside Gaza (Israel has exerted strong pressure on Egypt, via its American friends, to keep the Rafah border closed.) Many Palestinians in Gaza have received full scholarships to study in other countries, or need to travel abroad for urgent medical care, but Israel refuses to issue them travel permits so that they may pass through Israeli-controlled borders. Israel even refused to issue permits to the Gaza scholars who had been awarded the prestigious Fulbright scholarships -- a policy so blatantly outrageous that it actually got attention in the United States, and the U.S. State Department finally started squawking.

Israel didn't prevent your fiance/husband from travelling to the U.S., did they? Or is he from the West Bank?

Mahmoud is from the West Bank -- Jenin district.

He had a very difficult time (to say the least) getting to Jerusalem for his interview. The Israeli police refused to issue him the special travel permit, and he was not permitted to cross the checkpoints around the city of Jerusalem. To travel from Ramallah to the consulate (which should normally take about 15 or 20 minutes) took him more than 7 hours, because he had to go miles out of his way to find an opening -- around the soldiers and around The Wall -- and walk in on foot. He had to risk his life to get around them. Thanks to God he made it safely.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Mark, don't give MK an excuse to repost her 2005 rant-thread about the difficulties he faced going to the US embassy.

I have a copy of that post, and it was not a "rant" by any stretch of the imagination -- it expressed my very real concerns for my husband's safety, and profound relief and thankfulness that he finally made it through and back safely.

This site is "Visa Journey," and its intent is to provide information about the visa process, and for its members to share their personal, first-hand experiences about their own process in order to help others. No one needs an "excuse" to talk about things like attending their interview at the consulate -- info like this is the whole POINT of this site.

I know you wish there could be some kind of Apartheid Wall here to keep Palestinian experiences or viewpoints on "the other side" where you don't have to be disturbed by the very sight of them. Gee... for someone who purportedly doesn't want to read my posts, you sure spend a lot of time in my threads. If you really don't want to hear what I have to say, why are you even here ? There's a little box with a red X up there in the right hand corner.

Difficult or not, it happened, so it's not impossible.

Miracles happen sometimes. So they're not impossible.

Hope your loved ones never have to face that kind of risk.

Edited July 11, 2008 by wife_of_mahmoud

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Oops I messed up the link for the pillows:

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Palestinians and Israel: Wrecking the peace process

03/15/2008

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice meekly observed:

"I have not hidden the fact that I think that there is a lot of room for improvement on both sides concerning road map obligations,"

That was a diplomatic way of portraying the grim reality: Both Israel and the Palestinian National Authority have been busy sabotaging the road map and the Annapolis peace process by what can be at best described as passive resistance. The Annapolis "process" turns out to be what one suspected it would be, a show for the foreign khawajas.

On the Israeli scorecard, we can put failure to remove outposts, failure to remove roadblocks in the West Bank an announcement that Israel will build more housing for Jews in East Jerusalem and constant "incursions" in the West Bank, in which Palestinian terrorists militants are killed. There is no possible way to excuse or explain either the renewed building or the failure to remove outposts. Neither are needed for Israeli security, both the settlement freeze and the removal of outposts have been pledged again and again, and yet nothing at all happens. Coalition politics take precedence over international commitments for this Israeli government.

The roadblocks, the incursions, the arrests and killings however, are a different matter. As bloody and ugly as they are, they are for the most part a necessary evil. They are probably responsible for the fact that there have been relatively few terror attacks. Both Mahmoud Abbas and Ehud Olmert, and even the clueless Condoleezza Rice, must be aware that a succession of major terror attacks from the West Bank would make the "peace process" totally unviable.

The potential is indicated by the recent bombing in Dimona and the shooting in East Jerusalem, but "you should see the ones that got away." The foiled attacks are as damning as the ones that occur, because they all indicate that the Palestinian Authority has really done absolutely nothing to disarm terrorists militants, dismantle terrorist groups and prevent further attacks. Worse, the Palestinian President, Mahmoud Abbas, and officials of the Palestinian Authority, have gone out of their way to pour kerosene on the fire of hate-Israel rhetoric at almost every opportunity.

The Fatah Al-Aqsa group was dismantled months ago according to President Abbas. But it is still around, and it praised the terror attack in Jerusalem. Abbas himself has been less than helpful. Those who think his suspension of talks with Israel following the Israeli raid in Gaza is justified, should explain why an Israeli suspension of talks after the massacre of Yeshiva students in Jerusalem would not have been equally justified.

Most ominous was the rhetoric Abbas used in an in interview in Al Doustour. Right-wing Zionists insist that the "peace process" is only part of the Fatah staged plan to destroy Israel. Abbas seems to be vindicating their worst prognostications:

"About the resistance, Abbas said: It was I who, in 1965, had the honor of firing the first bullet. Many people, locally and abroad, know the resistance for what it is, how and under what circumstances it brings pride � and when it does not, what benefit can be derived from it, and what constitutes serious, genuine, and effective resistance. It is also commonly known when resistance may cause harm, and when the time, place, and circumstances are auspicious.

"[Abbas continued:] We [Fatah] had the honor of leading the resistance. We instructed everyone, including Hizbullah, as to what the resistance means. They were educated in our camps... At this time, I object to the armed struggle, since we are unable to conduct it; however, in future stages things may change.."

Abbas, it seems, has nothing against murdering civilians, and as soon as it is practical and useful to do so in order to further the plan, Fatah will resume terror attacks. The roadmap commitment to ending terror is just a phase according to Abbas, though Israeli withdrawals from territories are expected to be permanent. What would be the point of creating a Palestinian state in order to make it more propitious for Abbas and the Fatah to resume terrorism? That sort of temporary condemnation of terror is not going to kindle any mass peace movement in Israel.

Ami Isseroff

SOURCE:

http://www.mideastweb.org/log/archives/00000680.htm

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Palestinians and Israel: Wrecking the peace process

03/15/2008

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice meekly observed:

"I have not hidden the fact that I think that there is a lot of room for improvement on both sides concerning road map obligations,"

That was a diplomatic way of portraying the grim reality: Both Israel and the Palestinian National Authority have been busy sabotaging the road map and the Annapolis peace process by what can be at best described as passive resistance. The Annapolis "process" turns out to be what one suspected it would be, a show for the foreign khawajas.

On the Israeli scorecard, we can put failure to remove outposts, failure to remove roadblocks in the West Bank an announcement that Israel will build more housing for Jews in East Jerusalem and constant "incursions" in the West Bank, in which Palestinian terrorists militants are killed. There is no possible way to excuse or explain either the renewed building or the failure to remove outposts. Neither are needed for Israeli security, both the settlement freeze and the removal of outposts have been pledged again and again, and yet nothing at all happens. Coalition politics take precedence over international commitments for this Israeli government.

The roadblocks, the incursions, the arrests and killings however, are a different matter. As bloody and ugly as they are, they are for the most part a necessary evil. They are probably responsible for the fact that there have been relatively few terror attacks. Both Mahmoud Abbas and Ehud Olmert, and even the clueless Condoleezza Rice, must be aware that a succession of major terror attacks from the West Bank would make the "peace process" totally unviable.

The potential is indicated by the recent bombing in Dimona and the shooting in East Jerusalem, but "you should see the ones that got away." The foiled attacks are as damning as the ones that occur, because they all indicate that the Palestinian Authority has really done absolutely nothing to disarm terrorists militants, dismantle terrorist groups and prevent further attacks. Worse, the Palestinian President, Mahmoud Abbas, and officials of the Palestinian Authority, have gone out of their way to pour kerosene on the fire of hate-Israel rhetoric at almost every opportunity.

The Fatah Al-Aqsa group was dismantled months ago according to President Abbas. But it is still around, and it praised the terror attack in Jerusalem. Abbas himself has been less than helpful. Those who think his suspension of talks with Israel following the Israeli raid in Gaza is justified, should explain why an Israeli suspension of talks after the massacre of Yeshiva students in Jerusalem would not have been equally justified.

Most ominous was the rhetoric Abbas used in an in interview in Al Doustour. Right-wing Zionists insist that the "peace process" is only part of the Fatah staged plan to destroy Israel. Abbas seems to be vindicating their worst prognostications:

"About the resistance, Abbas said: It was I who, in 1965, had the honor of firing the first bullet. Many people, locally and abroad, know the resistance for what it is, how and under what circumstances it brings pride � and when it does not, what benefit can be derived from it, and what constitutes serious, genuine, and effective resistance. It is also commonly known when resistance may cause harm, and when the time, place, and circumstances are auspicious.

"[Abbas continued:] We [Fatah] had the honor of leading the resistance. We instructed everyone, including Hizbullah, as to what the resistance means. They were educated in our camps... At this time, I object to the armed struggle, since we are unable to conduct it; however, in future stages things may change.."

Abbas, it seems, has nothing against murdering civilians, and as soon as it is practical and useful to do so in order to further the plan, Fatah will resume terror attacks. The roadmap commitment to ending terror is just a phase according to Abbas, though Israeli withdrawals from territories are expected to be permanent. What would be the point of creating a Palestinian state in order to make it more propitious for Abbas and the Fatah to resume terrorism? That sort of temporary condemnation of terror is not going to kindle any mass peace movement in Israel.

Ami Isseroff

SOURCE:

http://www.mideastweb.org/log/archives/00000680.htm

This article attempts to present itself as "unbiased," but once you read it, you realize it's another ridiculous propaganda piece. It starts out by saying both sides have violated the "Road Map," but then it gets into its real purpose -- blaming and demonizing Palestinians.

The author claims that Israeli incursions, arrests and killings take the lives of "Palestinian terrorist militants" -- implying that civilians aren't ever killed. But in fact civilians make up more than half the number of Palestinian casualties killed by the Israeli military.

The author then goes on to theorize that Israel's actions are "probably" the reason terror attacks have dropped off, totally ignoring the fact that Hamas made a decision to end this type of activity with its election in 2006.

So, according to the author, Israel's violations of the Road Map are "perhaps sad, but necessary responses." You seem bound and determined to provide examples of every point I've made:

Israeli deaths are almost always depicted as innocent victims of Palestinian aggression, while Palestinian deaths are more often portrayed as an “unavoidable” or “necessary” result of conflict.

...

Israeli assaults are invariably reported as "responses" to Palestinian violence, but Palestinian attacks are never portrayed as a response or retaliation to Israeli violence. The casual viewer is of course left with the impression that Palestinians attack, and Israelis respond. Periods when there are no Israeli deaths are portrayed as "quiet," even though the Israeli military continues to kill and maim Palestinian victims during the same period. If Palestinians return fire, it's called "a shattering of the quiet."

LOL @ the author calling Condaleeze Rice "meek" and "clueless." This may be true, but Zionists sure loved them some Condi when Bush was telling them to take all they want of the West Bank. Alas... how things change when you openly criticize the Israeli government's settlement policy.

LOL @ "terror attacks would make the peace process unviable." All the Zionist pinheads will nod in agreement. But in fact there WAS no peace process before 1993 (which was the year of the first suicide bombing against Israelis) -- there was only Israel continuing to take more and more Palestinian land. For more than 25 years, the occupation had continued, the settlement had continued -- and all the while there was NO terror, and NO peace process.

The Abbas quotes in this article are lifted from a MEMRI translation, which does not have the most stellar reputation for credibility. I'd like to see the original article in Arabic. But even taking the MEMRI translation at face value -- why is it a "bad thing" if Palestinians reserve the right to use violence if the peace process does not work ? Israel not only proclaims it has that right each and every day, but continues to use it. What's good for the gander is good for the goose.

The author moves on to try to embellish Abbas' purported statements even further -- saying that since Abbas does not rule out violence if the peace process leads to another dead end and Israel continues to take Palestinian land -- that this then means that Abbas "has nothing against murdering civilians," and intends to "resume terror attacks." But there's nothing in the quote even faintly resembling that.

In short, your article is absurd.

[natty bumppo 289]

where are the bikinis in this thread

[aidan80 9]

where are the bikinis in this thread

I think there on that beach the Israelis have stolen...

[ready4ONE 5,400]

In short, your article is absurd.

Your response to the article is absurd. Anything which falls short of portraying the Palestinians as long suffering, innocent and hopeless victims of Israeli/Zionist despots does not jibe with your view.

Here is a link to a very fair interpretation of the history of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict in brief, but be advised, it fails to blame all problems on Israel and Zionists.

http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm