Palestinians barred from Dead Sea beaches

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Filkenstein wasn't trying to immigrate to Israel - he was denied entry as a tourist.

Ironically, if he wanted to become an Israeli citizen, the Law of Return would guarantee

him that right.

Well he was detained upon arrival at the airport, slapped with a 10-year ban for being a so-called "security risk" (because he criticizes Israel's policies) and deported the next day, so Finkelstein's "guaranteed right to return" won't be any time soon.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I don't know where you heard the stories of

religious persecution of Ethiopian Jews, but I'm inclined to take that information with a grain

of salt. Ethiopian Jews in Israel definitely have their fair share of problems, but religious

persecution isn't one of them.

As for being hassled at Ben Gurion... all true. They interrogate *everyone* who has a

foreign passport. I find it extremely annoying, but it is what it is.

There has been a lot of media coverage about this issue, both inside Israel and outside. Apparently there *is* a problem:

Israel's interior minister Meir Sheetrit, speaking of his goverment's policy of allowing Ethiopians of Jewish ancestry to move to Israel:

"Who needs them?" he said in an interview with The Jerusalem Post. "They are all Christians. We need to take care of the future of Israel and this immigration will never finish."

-Israeli Minister in Ethiopian racism row

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/155...racism-row.html

Examples of racism in Israel in 2007: a school that prides itself on its low number of Ethiopian students; parents requesting Ethiopian children be removed from their children's kindergarten; a teacher that says 'the student is a nuisance not only to Ethiopians but also to the Israeli students in the class.'

-Ethiopian community hit hard by discrimination

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3480010,00.html

Petach Tikva: Ethiopians protest racism in schools

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3481887,00.html

Israeli Prime Minister decried racism experienced by Ethiopians in Israel

http://www.ethiopianreview.com/content/1619

Yes, Ben Gurion indeed has very stringent security. But not "everyone" with a foreign passport is "interrogated." Some people are merely asked a few routine questions and sent on their way. There's a difference, and it's not always about a foreign passport -- it depends on a lot of factors.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Oh and on your way out, don't even think to leave all that trash behind -- time to sweep up the illegal settlers -- as well as the soldiers -- and send 'em on home.

Israeli settlers and soldiers are trash?

My sentence was not constructed very well. I was trying to say that Israel should sweep up its trash -- the settlers -- and take them home, along with its soldiers.

And yes -- any settlers who are squatting illegally on stolen Palestinian land are trash. Which would be all of them.

I have said many times on this board that some of Israel's soldiers are very professional and conscientious -- even courteous -- and I've posted many links about Israeli soldiers who speak out against the occupation and against the atrocities the IDF commits against Palestinians. I have a lot of respect for anyone who stands up for truth and justice (especially when it could be hazardous to their health.)

But since you asked, I say yes -- some soldiers are trash, too -- like the ones who shoot schoolgirls in the head; or refuse to allow pregnant women to get to a hospital and force them give birth right there in public; or beat mentally ill boys to death; or vandalize and loot homes or business, defecating on the sofa or in the copy machines; or drop their pants in front of teenage girls; or taunt the sick and elderly at gunpoint; etc. etc. etc.

These YouTubes aren't even close to the most outrageous. If anyone cares to look further, it's out there.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Ok so what do you suggest we do? Where do Palestians go to live now? What happens to the PLO? Where can they go live in peace?

I'm starting to think you're a ringer

Anyway, which Palestinians are you talking about ? The ones in the West Bank and Gaza and Jerusalem ? Or the refugees in other countries ? Or what ?

Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza and Jerusalem shouldn't have to go anywhere -- they are already home. International law has already provided for a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza. Jerusalem was supposed to be an international zone, but there is room for both sides to negotiate an agreement that allows the Israelis to have West Jerusalem for their capitol, and for East Jerusalem to become part of the Palestinian state.

As far as what should we do -- well, it's not brain surgery. International law and the U.N. resolutions should be enforced. Israel must leave the occupied territories, remove its illegal settlers and soldiers, and return to the 1967 borders. (And actually this is a pretty good deal for Israel, as there is no real legal ground for Israel to take anything beyond the 1948 Mandate -- but the Palestinian Authority has agreed to accept the 1967 borders.)

There is room for mutually-agreed upon minor border adjustments -- Palestinians have expressed willingness to consider "trading" certain areas of Palestinian land for equivalent territory on the Israeli side. But these agreements have to be mutually accepted.

As for the refugees -- a just settlement must be negotiated. Israel does not want to allow them to return to their homes in what is now Israel (other than perhaps a few isolated cases) so it must compensate them for their losses. For the refugees who wish to return to the area, the Palestinian state may absorb them.

There is another possibility that's acceptable under international law and which is also gaining support on both sides. If the majority of all the residents of the region decide they want to have one state for all people, this is also possible (and perhaps could be an even better solution -- it sure would have worked better than what was actually done.) But it's up to the people to decide this.

The PLO doesn't exist any more, so it can't "go" anywhere (although there has been some talk of reactivating it in lieu of the continued failure to get Israel to agree to any real negotiations toward establishing a Palestinian state.) Do you mean the Palestinian Authority ?

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

So lines such as the following have been excised from the Hamas Charter?

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

I guess it didn't occur to you to take a look at the charters of some of Israel's political parties. I've posted this before, but here it is again:

Likud (the Consolidation party -- the right-wing party of Benjamin Netanyahu and formerly of Ariel Sharon, as well as Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir. Likud's charter calls for Israel's annexation and settlement of the entire West Bank, Gaza Strip, Golan Heights, and all of Jerusalem. Most Likud members oppose Palestinian statehood.

Sounds like obliteration of any possibility of a Palestinian state to me.

Yisrael Beiteinu (Israel Our Home party) is another settler party -- these guys left Likud because it wasn't extreme enough. Led by racist wacko Avigdor Lieberman, they support the "transfer" of Arab Israeli citizens, either by "swapping" Arab communities near the Green Line -- stripping them of their citizenship -- in "return" for Israel keeping the illegal settlements in the West Bank.... or by "encouraging" Arabs to leave Israel. Lieberman has also called for Israel to bomb all Palestinian commercial centers (including banks and gas stations.)

This sounds pretty extremist.

Even Kadima (Forward, the so-called "moderate" party of Ehud Olmert, founded by Sharon and other longtime Likudniks, calls for Israel to take all of Jerusalem.

Maybe this doesn't bother you, but it bothers Palestinians (not to mention completely violates international law.)

If you care to look, you will find lots more.

And some of these parties were established long before there ever was a Hamas, so maybe Hamas was just following their lead.

BTW that is a cool avatar !

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Palestinians had developed a culture and customs unique to them and different from the rest of the Middle East long before Zionists arrived -- from their own distinguishable dialects and expressions, to their traditional clothing and the distinctive tall headdresses that were often worn by women -- these were worn by no other group in all the Middle East.

The exact district a Palestinian woman comes from can be identified -- even down to her village -- from the colors and patterns of embroidery ("tatreez") on her traditional dress -- a style of embroidery that is distinctively Palestinian. Palestinians have always had a rich and vibrant culture that is all their own, long before as well as after Israel’s creation.

How, though, is that any different from the Northern Jordanian tatreez? And the Southern Syrian? Just curious... it was the same way for them-- village specific design.

The people in northern Jordan and southern Syria who are making tatreez are of Palestinian origin. Look at where the refugee camps are:

Of course not every single person of Palestinian descent who is living in Jordan and Syria is a refugee, and not all are still living in the camps. There has always been some movement of populations throughout the area, and of course at one time Palestine was a part of Greater Syria. But most of the Palestinians living in these countries today are refugees or descended from Palestinians driven out before and during the creation of the State of Israel. Syria has close to half a million of them, mostly from the areas of Safad, Haifa, Jaffa and the Galilee.

As you know, Jordan absorbed the bulk of Palestinian refugees -- more than any other country -- and again not all are (or were) living in camps. But this massive influx of Palestinians has dramatically altered Jordan's demographics (as happened in Lebanon as well, although to a lesser extent.) According to most estimates, 60% or more of Jordan's population is of Palestinian descent (however King Abdullah has said it is less -- he claimed 40-45%, and said a study would be conducted to ascertain that.) Either way, there are a LOT of Palestinians there, and it's not at all surprising that you will see lots and lots of tatreez.

Edited June 24, 2008 by wife_of_mahmoud

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Every time I read the title of this thread I think it says Dead Sea B1tches......

Edited June 24, 2008 by VJ Troll

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Every time I read the title of this thread I think it says Dead Sea B1tches......

I was thinking that.

"No more Dead Sea Biatches for you!"

[HAL 9000 96]

Every time I read the title of this thread I think it says Dead Sea B1tches......

I did have a student back in the day that was a recent arrival to the US... and that is precisely how his pronunciation of beach sounded. Made for very interesting presentations with a straight face...

[Ban Hammer 13,206]

Every time I read the title of this thread I think it says Dead Sea B1tches......

a real subliminal message........

[ready4ONE 5,400]

The hits just keep on coming! More Zionist propaganda!

Rockets hit Israel, which says truce broken

Police say three Palestinian rockets have hit southern Israel and Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's office says the cease-fire that took effect last week has been broken.

JERUSALEM —

Police say three Palestinian rockets have hit southern Israel and Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's office says the cease-fire that took effect last week has been broken.

Islamic Jihad militants in the Gaza Strip says they carried out the attack to avenge an Israeli military raid that killed one of their fighters in the West Bank early Tuesday.

Israel's national rescue service says two people were lightly wounded in the rocket barrage.

The West Bank is not formally part of the truce. But Islamic Jihad says it "cannot keep its hands tied" when its "brothers" in the West Bank are being targeted.

However, the Gaza Strip's ruling Hamas group says it remains committed to the truce.

Israeli troops killed two Palestinians in the West Bank raid.

Copyright © 2008 The Seattle Times Company

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nati...lestinians.html

[Saddle Bronc 124]

The hits just keep on coming! More Zionist propaganda!

Rockets hit Israel, which says truce broken

Police say three Palestinian rockets have hit southern Israel and Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's office says the cease-fire that took effect last week has been broken.

JERUSALEM —

Police say three Palestinian rockets have hit southern Israel and Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's office says the cease-fire that took effect last week has been broken.

Islamic Jihad militants in the Gaza Strip says they carried out the attack to avenge an Israeli military raid that killed one of their fighters in the West Bank early Tuesday.

Israel's national rescue service says two people were lightly wounded in the rocket barrage.

The West Bank is not formally part of the truce. But Islamic Jihad says it "cannot keep its hands tied" when its "brothers" in the West Bank are being targeted.

However, the Gaza Strip's ruling Hamas group says it remains committed to the truce.

Israeli troops killed two Palestinians in the West Bank raid.

Copyright © 2008 The Seattle Times Company

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nati...lestinians.html

Ahem, already subject of another thread

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Ahem, already subject of another thread

But not with my take on the incident! Innocent Palestinians looking for place to put their rockets called 'attack' by the Israelis.

[Ban Hammer 13,206]

Ahem, already subject of another thread

But not with my take on the incident! Innocent Palestinians looking for place to put their rockets called 'attack' by the Israelis.

love is in the air..........

[Nasturtium 500]

The people in northern Jordan and southern Syria who are making tatreez are of Palestinian origin. Look at where the refugee camps are:

Of course not every single person of Palestinian descent who is living in Jordan and Syria is a refugee, and not all are still living in the camps. There has always been some movement of populations throughout the area, and of course at one time Palestine was a part of Greater Syria. But most of the Palestinians living in these countries today are refugees or descended from Palestinians driven out before and during the creation of the State of Israel. Syria has close to half a million of them, mostly from the areas of Safad, Haifa, Jaffa and the Galilee.

As you know, Jordan absorbed the bulk of Palestinian refugees -- more than any other country -- and again not all are (or were) living in camps. But this massive influx of Palestinians has dramatically altered Jordan's demographics (as happened in Lebanon as well, although to a lesser extent.) According to most estimates, 60% or more of Jordan's population is of Palestinian descent (however King Abdullah has said it is less -- he claimed 40-45%, and said a study would be conducted to ascertain that.) Either way, there are a LOT of Palestinians there, and it's not at all surprising that you will see lots and lots of tatreez.

I apologize in advance for any misspellings. etc. I'm trying to proofread but I don't have my contacts in as this is sort of the middle of my night and I woke up and couldn't sleep-- I can't actually SEE the computer screen unless I am 4-6 inches away from it because I am really pretty blind

Actually, regular Jordanian-Jordanians make tatreez as well-- such as in my Dh's village. They are not of Palestinean decent (and not in any camps or migrant areas)...

http://users.stlcc.edu/mfuller/abila/AbilaEthno.html

This is an ethnographer wearing a traditional abaya with tatreez. They can get very elaborate but this is the majority of the design pattern-- around the collar, sleeves and hem. I have one his sisters gave me. Colors as of late are no longer indicitive of anything other than what you picked up a the store. Same with the Schmagh-- red and white used to be the thing, but now with the advent of cheaper, machine-made things black and white makes it way into the population as well. My husband's tribe occupies 7 villages traditionally, and they are the largest Jordanian tribe in the north.

The above picture has an example with their recently traditional headgear... the older traditional headgear is very expensive nowdays-- that was the everyday wear-- which is obviously quite different from the Palestinean tradtional wear-- more Beduin.

I will add that there seems to be 2 forms of dress though in North jordan-- both tatreez and non-tatreez. It;s the same abaya and the traditional "work" abaya has no decoration, which seems fairly practical IMO. Do the Palestineans traditionally always wear tatreez even to farm/work?

Ok, I have in my contacts now and woke up Ammar (middle of his night too) to ask him what that head piece is called-- he says hattah.

So there is one folded up, and I know I saw a pic of one down. i am trying to find it. Did find this on wikipedia:

The tatoos are different than the old women in his village (much more) but everyone had tatoos who was of the older generation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gharaibeh

I noticed in reading this wikipedia article that this particular tribe had a similar story as my Dh's as one possibility-- Dh's tribe is documented as coming up from the Hijaz and settling in Northern Jordan about 400 years ago-- there they of course, intermarried with the locals and are now sort of a hybrid of local and non-local genetics.. as well as the fact that they were supposedly of Jewish ancestry back in the Hijaz. So they aren't Palestinean which migrated over some.

Personally, I think we're dealing with an area that is 100 miles or less and that traditions should be common across the board here-- designs will be location-specific, but general costume should be similar. North Jordan is a very close climate to Northern Israel and down through Jerusalem, etc. It's middle and Southern Jordan where the whole double-dress shows up, which is a beduin thing it seems. What i noticed is that tribes from north Jordan seem to have the same thobs as Palestineans but a more similar head dress arrangement as the beduins, with some tatoos tossed in. You figure fashion is always influenced by those with whom you have contact.

(some more north Jordan wear)

As far as the palestinean population, I've heard the following demographic breakdowns for Jordan:

45%-50% Palestinean, 45% Iraqi, 5% actual Jordanians, 5-10% other-- like Egyptians. Jordanians themselves (from the real Jordanians I have spoken to or know of married to other westerners) don't seem that happy about this development and are really wishing the Iraqis would leave and the camps be pushed out-- but that isn't likely to happen. The recent Iraqi influx has apparently done to Jordan what the Euro influx did in Morocco- -drive up their property prices so Jordanians can no longer afford housing in places like Amman. The Palestineans inside camps have a bad reputation for being crude, crass, and starting crimes/gangs... although the ones OUTSIDE the camps don't seem to catch the same flack. It somewhat reminded me of our own social stigma placed on, for example, African Americans who live outside a "ghetto" versus those from inner city areas or "ghettos." Of course they also talk about themselves and the other villages... so it's across the board