Palestinians barred from Dead Sea beaches

[mawilson 2,133]

Not too long ago I read something about Ethiopian Jews in Israel. Since they are a minority who believe in Jesus as their savior whereas many of the more Orthodox Jews of Israel do not believe this. As a result, they are persecuted inside Israel because they don't follow the "norm". Sure they live in Israel, but do you really consider living in persecution being welcomed with open arms?

I also read something about a woman who has dual citizenship being hassled at Ben Gurion. She said that they interrogate her everytime, asking her where she went to school growing up in Israel, who the rabbi was there....yet they just do that because they can.

It sure does not sound to me like Israel opens its doors to just anyone.

Persecuted how? I know many Christians who are Israeli citizens and I honestly don't think

anyone gives a hoot what they believe. I don't know where you heard the stories of

religious persecution of Ethiopian Jews, but I'm inclined to take that information with a grain

of salt. Ethiopian Jews in Israel definitely have their fair share of problems, but religious

persecution isn't one of them.

As for being hassled at Ben Gurion... all true. They interrogate *everyone* who has a

foreign passport. I find it extremely annoying, but it is what it is.

[Risto 0]

This is another page from the ongoing Zionist campaign to delegitimatize Palestinians as a people

No one is doing this better than the arab countries

[mawilson 2,133]

Oh and on your way out, don't even think to leave all that trash behind -- time to sweep up the illegal settlers -- as well as the soldiers -- and send 'em on home.

Israeli settlers and soldiers are trash?

[Amby 490]

you two need to get along! HUG NOW!!!!!!!!!!

[zqt3344 21]

Ok so what do you suggest we do? Where do Palestians go to live now? What happens to the PLO? Where can they go live in peace?

Palestinians barred from Dead Sea beaches to 'appease Israeli settlers'

By Donald Macintyre in Jerusalem

Saturday, 14 June 2008

ALAMY

The southern section of the Dead Sea's west coast is in Israel; the northern in the occupied West Bank. But civil rights groups say the Palestinians are being barred even from their own beaches to the north.

Palestinians are being regularly and illegally barred from reaching Dead Sea beaches in the occupied West Bank, according to a Supreme Court petition filed by Israel's leading civil rights organisation.

The Association of Civil Rights (Acri) in Israel is challenging what it says is the frequently imposed ban by the military on Palestinians seeking to swim or relax at beaches in the northern Dead Sea. The salt-saturated sea is the only open water accessible to Palestinians from the otherwise landlocked West Bank.

The petition says that the Israeli military is using the Beit Ha'arava checkpoint on Route 90 – the only open access route in the occupied West Bank for travel to the Dead Sea – to turn back Palestinians, mainly but not exclusively on weekends and Jewish holidays.

Acri says that the ban is to appease Israeli settlers operating concessions along the Dead Sea's northern shore. They fear losing Jewish customers if there are large numbers of Arabs using the beaches in territory seized by Israel during the Six Day War in 1967.

A Palestinian bus driver, Mohammed Ahmed Nuaga'a, described how he was turned back by the military with a party of children, aged between six and 12, on a school trip from the Hebron district to the Dead Sea last month. The outing had been officially co-ordinated with the Palestinian Authority education ministry and included 10 teachers and 15 parents. He returned a few hours later in the hope that the soldiers would relent but they did not do so. "I tried to explain to them that these are young pupils who came from very far to fulfil a big dream – to see the sea," he said.

"But the soldiers were aggressive, and started shouting at us that Palestinian passage is forbidden, whether children or adults. The pupils begged the soldiers to let them go for even 10 minutes just to see the sea and return, but nothing happened."

In the petition a senior Acri lawyer, Limor Yehuda, says: "We are dealing here with travel bans and entry prohibitions to public places in occupied territory which are tainted with discrimination and characteristic of colonial regimes. We have here prohibitions preventing the protected population of the occupied territory from using its own resources, while the very same resources are put at the disposal and enjoyment of the citizens of the occupying power."

The ban came to light after the testimony of two Israeli army reservists who said that at the beginning of their tour of duty in May they were told that the purpose of the checkpoint was to "prevent Palestinians coming from the Jordan Valley to the Dead Sea beaches".

One of the reservists, Doron Karbel, testified that as a "side note", the Jordan Valley Brigade Commander, Colonel Yigal Slovik, had said the reason for the checkpoint was that "when Jews and Palestinian vacationers were sitting on the beaches side by side it hurt the business of the surrounding yishuvim [Jewish communities].

Mr Karbel added: "In a conversation I later had with the Brigade Commander, he told me that he could come up with or find a security justification if he needed to."

From Ein Gedi southwards, the beaches on the Dead Sea's western side are in sovereign Israeli territory. But the popular beaches of the northern Dead Sea are Israeli-run and visitors could easily – but erroneously – imagine they are also in Israel rather than in occupied territory. In April this year, the British Advertising Standards Authority required the Israel Ministry of Tourism to alter the wording of an advertisement suggesting that Qumran, close to the northern shore, and the site of the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, was in Israel.

In the Acri petition, Ms Yehuda says: "The illegality of the actions and orders of the army cries out to the heavens. This is a clear case of misusing security considerations as camouflage for achieving other goals which are unrelated to security matters and unacceptable."

Israel has also been criticised for segregating roads used by Israeli motorists in the West Bank for stated reasons of security. Israeli officials reject claims that this is racial discrimination, partly because Arabs with Israeli citizenship are permitted to use the roads. They also frequent the Dead Sea beaches.

The Israeli military declined to comment in detail while judicial proceedings are under way, but said in a statement that "the network of security crossings in the West Bank was erected in response to the extreme terrorist threat and violence during the second intifada." Since the violence had "ebbed" crossings were "under review".

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/mi...ers-846948.html

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Arabic-speaking people have lived in what now is called "Palestine" since the

early days of Islam; however, a self-identified "Palestinian people" evolved

only in the last two centuries as a result of European interference and Zionist

settlements.

Once again, you try to distort history in an attempt to minimize and delegitimatize the Palestinian people.

The indigenous people of Palestine are not simply products of Arabization or Islam -- they didn't suddenly sprout up in 635, nor did they suddenly decide to become an identifiable cultural group when the Zionists arrived.

Present-day Palestinians count among their many ancestors the original inhabitants of Palestine -- the ancient Canaanites, and their descendants -- the Phoenicians. Over the millennia, this population has intermarried and mingled with many invaders and immigrants and wandering tribes -- including the Hebrews -- but they have maintained a continuing presence in Palestine.

Palestinians had developed a culture and customs unique to them and different from the rest of the Middle East long before Zionists arrived -- from their own distinguishable dialects and expressions, to their traditional clothing and the distinctive tall headdresses that were often worn by women -- these were worn by no other group in all the Middle East.

The exact district a Palestinian woman comes from can be identified -- even down to her village -- from the colors and patterns of embroidery ("tatreez") on her traditional dress -- a style of embroidery that is distinctively Palestinian. Palestinians have always had a rich and vibrant culture that is all their own, long before as well as after Israel’s creation.

But here you go again, trying to add that old "writer's embellishment" to the history of the Zionist presence in Palestine. We've already had this conversation, but that doesn't even faze you -- once again you try to claim that it stretches back some "two centuries." In fact, the first Zionist Congress (which was held in *Switzerland*) was not until 1897 -- a scant 111 years ago. As I've already pointed out to you, that's barely *one* century ago; not *two.*

And the members of the Zionist Congress did not immediately agree on an endeavor in Palestine -- they also considered locations in Madagascar, Uganda and more.

Actually in 1800 (long before Zionism was invented) there were a total of only 6,700 Jews in Palestine -- amid 268,000 Arabs. By 1880, this had grown to just 24,000 Jews amid 525,000 Arabs -- hardly enough of a presence to be even noticed, much less influence Palestinian political or cultural identity as you claim.

By 1914, the Jewish community in Palestine numbered 60,000 -- still a rather insignificant number amid what was then 731,000 Arabs. The Zionists' attempts to lobby the Ottoman Empire to permit the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine had failed, and immigration had remained quite low. It wasn't until 1917, after the end of World War I and the beginning of the British Mandate, that Zionists finally received support for their plan -- this from Lord Balfour in the form of a letter -- and the proposal was not endorsed by the League of Nations until 1922. And *that* is in fact when Zionist immigration began en-mass -- *less* than one century ago. And not until the weeks immediately preceding the establishment of Israel in 1948 was there ever anything other than a huge Arab majority.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

The past is what it was and is not in question. Current events dictate that both sides need to be recognizable as viable national entities.

Agreed.

And both sides need to be willing to recognize each other as such, formally and in practice.

Well, one side side already *has.*

The Palestinian Authority under Yasser Arafat formally recognized the State of Israel in writing at the Oslo Agreements of 1993, and the P.A. has confirmed that recognition in every single negotiation since then. And Hamas has already agreed to abide by all previous agreements made by the Palestinian Authority under Fatah, including its official recognition of Israel.

It's Israel that has *never* recognized the State of Palestine, either formally or in practice. In fact, Israel has never even acknowledged the borders established for it by the U.N. Mandate of 1948, and still refuses to declare its borders today.

[palilover 1]

Not too long ago I read something about Ethiopian Jews in Israel. Since they are a minority who believe in Jesus as their savior whereas many of the more Orthodox Jews of Israel do not believe this. As a result, they are persecuted inside Israel because they don't follow the "norm". Sure they live in Israel, but do you really consider living in persecution being welcomed with open arms?

I also read something about a woman who has dual citizenship being hassled at Ben Gurion. She said that they interrogate her everytime, asking her where she went to school growing up in Israel, who the rabbi was there....yet they just do that because they can.

It sure does not sound to me like Israel opens its doors to just anyone.

Persecuted how? I know many Christians who are Israeli citizens and I honestly don't think

anyone gives a hoot what they believe. I don't know where you heard the stories of

religious persecution of Ethiopian Jews, but I'm inclined to take that information with a grain

of salt. Ethiopian Jews in Israel definitely have their fair share of problems, but religious

persecution isn't one of them.

As for being hassled at Ben Gurion... all true. They interrogate *everyone* who has a

foreign passport. I find it extremely annoying, but it is what it is.

This is the article I was referring to. http://www.imemc.org/article/55055

Dont know if this was an isolated incident or not.

However, fwiw, an Israeli guy did write me back on this and he had this to say.

"Jews for Jesus are not actually Jewish. The organization was created by Christians as a ploy to drag Jews from Judaism into Christianity. The state of Israel bases a person's Judaism on a person's parents. If either of a person's parents are Jewish, according to Israel, that person is Jewish. This is not so according to Judaism though. According to Judaism, a person's mother must be Jewish for them to be considered Jewish."

[Scott & Lai 12]

The past is what it was and is not in question. Current events dictate that both sides need to be recognizable as viable national entities.

Agreed.

And both sides need to be willing to recognize each other as such, formally and in practice.

Well, one side side already *has.*

The Palestinian Authority under Yasser Arafat formally recognized the State of Israel in writing at the Oslo Agreements of 1993, and the P.A. has confirmed that recognition in every single negotiation since then. And Hamas has already agreed to abide by all previous agreements made by the Palestinian Authority under Fatah, including its official recognition of Israel.

It's Israel that has *never* recognized the State of Palestine, either formally or in practice. In fact, Israel has never even acknowledged the borders established for it by the U.N. Mandate of 1948, and still refuses to declare its borders today.

So lines such as the following have been excised from the Hamas Charter?

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

[zqt3344 21]

What is your definition of a Zionist? So what do you suggest they do, in Palestine? Where do they go and live in peace at now? What is the solution?

Arabic-speaking people have lived in what now is called "Palestine" since the

early days of Islam; however, a self-identified "Palestinian people" evolved

only in the last two centuries as a result of European interference and Zionist

settlements.

Once again, you try to distort history in an attempt to minimize and delegitimatize the Palestinian people.

The indigenous people of Palestine are not simply products of Arabization or Islam -- they didn't suddenly sprout up in 635, nor did they suddenly decide to become an identifiable cultural group when the Zionists arrived.

Present-day Palestinians count among their many ancestors the original inhabitants of Palestine -- the ancient Canaanites, and their descendants -- the Phoenicians. Over the millennia, this population has intermarried and mingled with many invaders and immigrants and wandering tribes -- including the Hebrews -- but they have maintained a continuing presence in Palestine.

Palestinians had developed a culture and customs unique to them and different from the rest of the Middle East long before Zionists arrived -- from their own distinguishable dialects and expressions, to their traditional clothing and the distinctive tall headdresses that were often worn by women -- these were worn by no other group in all the Middle East.

The exact district a Palestinian woman comes from can be identified -- even down to her village -- from the colors and patterns of embroidery ("tatreez") on her traditional dress -- a style of embroidery that is distinctively Palestinian. Palestinians have always had a rich and vibrant culture that is all their own, long before as well as after Israel’s creation.

But here you go again, trying to add that old "writer's embellishment" to the history of the Zionist presence in Palestine. We've already had this conversation, but that doesn't even faze you -- once again you try to claim that it stretches back some "two centuries." In fact, the first Zionist Congress (which was held in *Switzerland*) was not until 1897 -- a scant 111 years ago. As I've already pointed out to you, that's barely *one* century ago; not *two.*

And the members of the Zionist Congress did not immediately agree on an endeavor in Palestine -- they also considered locations in Madagascar, Uganda and more.

Actually in 1800 (long before Zionism was invented) there were a total of only 6,700 Jews in Palestine -- amid 268,000 Arabs. By 1880, this had grown to just 24,000 Jews amid 525,000 Arabs -- hardly enough of a presence to be even noticed, much less influence Palestinian political or cultural identity as you claim.

By 1914, the Jewish community in Palestine numbered 60,000 -- still a rather insignificant number amid what was then 731,000 Arabs. The Zionists' attempts to lobby the Ottoman Empire to permit the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine had failed, and immigration had remained quite low. It wasn't until 1917, after the end of World War I and the beginning of the British Mandate, that Zionists finally received support for their plan -- this from Lord Balfour in the form of a letter -- and the proposal was not endorsed by the League of Nations until 1922. And *that* is in fact when Zionist immigration began en-mass -- *less* than one century ago. And not until the weeks immediately preceding the establishment of Israel in 1948 was there ever anything other than a huge Arab majority.

[Nasturtium 500]

Dont know if this was an isolated incident or not.

However, fwiw, an Israeli guy did write me back on this and he had this to say.

"Jews for Jesus are not actually Jewish. The organization was created by Christians as a ploy to drag Jews from Judaism into Christianity. The state of Israel bases a person's Judaism on a person's parents. If either of a person's parents are Jewish, according to Israel, that person is Jewish. This is not so according to Judaism though. According to Judaism, a person's mother must be Jewish for them to be considered Jewish."

It's not an isolated incedent. And what that person fails to expound upon is according to TORAH, only if your FATHER is Jewish can you be considered Jewish. That rule of inheritence was changed by Rabbis in response to persecution including rape. Jews for Jesus though is exactly that-- it seeks to try to trick Jews out of being Torah-observant by giving the trappings of Judaism but nothing more. It's very sad that Christians are on the whole, so entirely misled and have fallen into the prophecy of Daniel 100%.

[Nasturtium 500]

Palestinians had developed a culture and customs unique to them and different from the rest of the Middle East long before Zionists arrived -- from their own distinguishable dialects and expressions, to their traditional clothing and the distinctive tall headdresses that were often worn by women -- these were worn by no other group in all the Middle East.

The exact district a Palestinian woman comes from can be identified -- even down to her village -- from the colors and patterns of embroidery ("tatreez") on her traditional dress -- a style of embroidery that is distinctively Palestinian. Palestinians have always had a rich and vibrant culture that is all their own, long before as well as after Israel’s creation.

How, though, is that any different from the Northern Jordanian tatreez? And the Southern Syrian? Just curious... it was the same way for them-- village specific design.

[mawilson 2,133]

Dont know if this was an isolated incident or not.

However, fwiw, an Israeli guy did write me back on this and he had this to say.

"Jews for Jesus are not actually Jewish. The organization was created by Christians as a ploy to drag Jews from Judaism into Christianity. The state of Israel bases a person's Judaism on a person's parents. If either of a person's parents are Jewish, according to Israel, that person is Jewish. This is not so according to Judaism though. According to Judaism, a person's mother must be Jewish for them to be considered Jewish."

It's not an isolated incedent. And what that person fails to expound upon is according to TORAH, only if your FATHER is Jewish can you be considered Jewish. That rule of inheritence was changed by Rabbis in response to persecution including rape. Jews for Jesus though is exactly that-- it seeks to try to trick Jews out of being Torah-observant by giving the trappings of Judaism but nothing more. It's very sad that Christians are on the whole, so entirely misled and have fallen into the prophecy of Daniel 100%.

You got that wrong. You're Jewish only if your mother, not father, is Jewish.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

I dont see one pic of anyone that is beach bound!

[ready4ONE 5,400]

"Israel's "Palestinian problem" is the mirror image of the Nazis' "Jewish problem," and Zionists have come to a similar conclusion -- that the unwanted segment of the population must somehow disappear."

Unreal! There is no comparison between the Israeli's at their absolute worst, and the Nazi's. Certainly there is no credible claim that Israeli's have been cremating starved Palistinian's in ovens, gassing them etc. Oh and stealing their gold fillings, and anything else of value from their bodies before doing so...

"Seriously, the only answer to the "problem" is a just, negotiated agreement between the two parties -- the same thing the world community and international law has been demanding for decades."

A just and negotiated agreement can never be brokered if one side seeks the utter destruction of the other... I feel sympathetic to a degree to both sides. But it seems to me that for a bit too long there has been too much "Israel will be wiped from the earth" coming from the Arab countries in general, and the Palestinian's in particular. The rest of the world community seems to be behind Israel. It would be nice to see Palestinian leaders who truly can work with the Israeli's for the good of both their own two peoples, and the world.