Social Security for K1

[rin and john 71]

Found the following on the SSA's website. They may end up changing the rules for K1's regarding issuance of SSN's. If I read it correctly, they will currently issue a SSN if a K1 shows their visa and I-94 (EAD not required). That may be changing.

http://www.ssa.gov/oig/ADOBEPDF/audittxt/A-08-07-17044.htm

John

[Tom and Teaw 1]

If they move as fast as any other govt. agency, it will be a long time before any changes are made as everyone will have to study how it affects them, etc. etc.

[payxibka 10,047]

If they move as fast as any other govt. agency, it will be a long time before any changes are made as everyone will have to study how it affects them, etc. etc.

More than one agency is involved here... The movement will most likely be exponentially slow.

[YuAndDan 153]

This has been their policy for many years, EAD not required for K-1 to get SSN while I-94 is still valid, after I-94 expires then EAD is required to get SSN.

Example: http://www.kamya.com/ssn/em00154.pdf Memo dated 2000

They will not issue SSN past 76 days of entry, after that and there is not enough time for them to issue SSN while I-94 is valid.

Having SSN is not proof of work authorization, you still need EAD or Green-card to take a job.

NOTE: K-1 is not a work visa, it is a fiancee visa for entry to the USA and marriage, K-1 is "Work Auth" primarily to be able to get the SSN, some states are strict in their interpretation of a federal law that requires persons applying for a "license" to have SSN, this can cause a problem with marriage license if only one person has SSN and the other (the K-1 holder) does not.

[payxibka 10,047]

This has been their policy for many years, EAD not required for K-1 to get SSN while I-94 is still valid, after I-94 expires then EAD is required to get SSN.

Example: http://www.kamya.com/ssn/em00154.pdf Memo dated 2000

They will not issue SSN past 76 days of entry, after that and there is not enough time for them to issue SSN while I-94 is valid.

Having SSN is not proof of work authorization, you still need EAD or Green-card to take a job.

NOTE: K-1 is not a work visa, it is a fiancee visa for entry to the USA and marriage, K-1 is "Work Auth" primarily to be able to get the SSN, some states are strict in their interpretation of a federal law that requires persons applying for a "license" to have SSN, this can cause a problem with marriage license if only one person has SSN and the other (the K-1 holder) does not.

YuandDan,

You "quote" the above all the time, I have always wondered where/what is your source for the primary reason?

[YuAndDan 153]

This has been their policy for many years, EAD not required for K-1 to get SSN while I-94 is still valid, after I-94 expires then EAD is required to get SSN.

Example: http://www.kamya.com/ssn/em00154.pdf Memo dated 2000

They will not issue SSN past 76 days of entry, after that and there is not enough time for them to issue SSN while I-94 is valid.

Having SSN is not proof of work authorization, you still need EAD or Green-card to take a job.

NOTE: K-1 is not a work visa, it is a fiancee visa for entry to the USA and marriage, K-1 is "Work Auth" primarily to be able to get the SSN, some states are strict in their interpretation of a federal law that requires persons applying for a "license" to have SSN, this can cause a problem with marriage license if only one person has SSN and the other (the K-1 holder) does not.

YuandDan,

You "quote" the above all the time, I have always wondered where/what is your source for the primary reason?

Good question, lets apply some logic here. Why is it that K-1 is "Work auth" and the other K-Visas are not? Perhaps this has to do with the fact that the K-1 is her to marry, and the others are not?

TN, and NC come to mind as difficult states to get a marriage license without SSN, and several other states are strict in their interpretation of: TITLE 42 CHAPTER 7 SUBCHAPTER IV Part D § 666

US code has this:

§ 666. Requirement of statutorily prescribed procedures to improve effectiveness of child support enforcement

(13) Recording of social security numbers in certain family matters.— Procedures requiring that the social security number of—

(A) any applicant for a professional license, driver’s license, occupational license, recreational license, or marriage license be recorded on the application;

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/usc...66----000-.html

[payxibka 10,047]

I don't buy that the authors of the INA made a K-1 work authorized solely for the constituents of NC and TN to get marriage licenses....

For example in NC, the following is available:

If You Do Not Have A Social Security Number

- Applicants who are not eligible for a Social Security number may obtain a marriage license by signing an affidavit attesting to this fact. The affidavit is available in the Register of Deeds office or can be printed out here (affidavit).

- Note: A foreigner admitted to the United States for permanent residence or to engage in employment must be issued a Social Security number. A foreigner not eligible for a Social Security card but who was legally admitted to the United States can use an individual identification number (ITIN) in lieu of a Social Security number. To obtain an ITIN number, contact the IRS Tax Administration Office to fill out a W-7 form.

For TN:

18 Years of Age or Older

- A Driver License OR State Identification OR Certified Birth Certificate OR Passport.

- Proof of a valid Social Security number or a valid Passport reflecting K-1 status.

- Fee of $95.00 without affidavit, $35.00 with Certificate of Pre-marital Counseling.

- Both Parties Must Be Present

Edited June 11, 2008 by fwaguy

[Thai family 0]

I don't buy that the authors of the INA made a K-1 work authorized solely for the constituents of NC and TN to get marriage licenses....

_______________

K-3s aren't work authorized, so there is no other logical explanation that I know of (even if it isn't logical).

[rin and john 71]

I don't buy that the authors of the INA made a K-1 work authorized solely for the constituents of NC and TN to get marriage licenses....

_______________

K-3s aren't work authorized, so there is no other logical explanation that I know of (even if it isn't logical).

The logic escapes me, as well. A K1 has to marry in 90 days, then adjust status. The US gov't sees fit to issue a SSN during this time. A K3 is basically of the same status as a K1 (non-resident) with the exception of the marriage timing and the length of the visa (2 years vs. 90 days). The only thing I can figure is that K1 visas have existed much longer within the system and K3's are much newer, and thus not addressed the same in terms of SSA (or IRS for that matter).

John

[RaTBoX 1]

Good question, lets apply some logic here. Why is it that K-1 is "Work auth" and the other K-Visas are not? Perhaps this has to do with the fact that the K-1 is her to marry, and the others are not?

K-3s aren't work authorized, so there is no other logical explanation that I know of (even if it isn't logical).

They are. Have a read of CFR8.274a.12.(a)

---

"(a) Aliens authorized employment incident to status. Pursuant to the statutory or regulatory reference cited, the following classes of aliens are authorized to be employed in the United States without restrictions as to location or type of employment as a condition of their admission or subsequent change to one of the indicated classes. Any alien who is within a class of aliens described in paragraphs (a)(3), (a)(4), (a)(6)–(a)(8), (a)(10)–(a)(15), or (a)(20) of this section, and who seeks to be employed in the United States, must apply to U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) for a document evidencing such employment authorization. USCIS may, in its discretion, determine the validity period assigned to any document issued evidencing an alien's authorization to work in the United States.

...

many different classes

...

(9) Any alien admitted as a nonimmigrant spouse pursuant to section 101(a)(15)(K)(ii) of the Act, or an alien admitted as a child of such alien, for the period of admission in that status, as evidenced by an employment authorization document, with an expiration date issued by the Service;"

---

A K1 and K2 holder need to have an EAD to show proof of their employment authorization as per "Any alien who is within a class of aliens described in paragraphs (a)(3), (a)(4), (a)(6)–(a)(8), (a)(10)–(a)(15), or (a)(20) of this section, and who seeks to be employed in the United States, must apply to U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) for a document evidencing such employment authorization.". The classification for K3 is not listed as a category that must obtain proof, but their category is listed in CRF8.274a.12.a, which makes them work authorized incident to status.

[rin and john 71]

Good question, lets apply some logic here. Why is it that K-1 is "Work auth" and the other K-Visas are not? Perhaps this has to do with the fact that the K-1 is her to marry, and the others are not?

K-3s aren't work authorized, so there is no other logical explanation that I know of (even if it isn't logical).

They are. Have a read of CFR8.274a.12.(a)

---

"(a) Aliens authorized employment incident to status. Pursuant to the statutory or regulatory reference cited, the following classes of aliens are authorized to be employed in the United States without restrictions as to location or type of employment as a condition of their admission or subsequent change to one of the indicated classes. Any alien who is within a class of aliens described in paragraphs (a)(3), (a)(4), (a)(6)–(a)(8), (a)(10)–(a)(15), or (a)(20) of this section, and who seeks to be employed in the United States, must apply to U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) for a document evidencing such employment authorization. USCIS may, in its discretion, determine the validity period assigned to any document issued evidencing an alien's authorization to work in the United States.

...

many different classes

...

(9) Any alien admitted as a nonimmigrant spouse pursuant to section 101(a)(15)(K)(ii) of the Act, or an alien admitted as a child of such alien, for the period of admission in that status, as evidenced by an employment authorization document, with an expiration date issued by the Service;"

---

A K1 and K2 holder need to have an EAD to show proof of their employment authorization as per "Any alien who is within a class of aliens described in paragraphs (a)(3), (a)(4), (a)(6)–(a)(8), (a)(10)–(a)(15), or (a)(20) of this section, and who seeks to be employed in the United States, must apply to U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) for a document evidencing such employment authorization.". The classification for K3 is not listed as a category that must obtain proof, but their category is listed in CRF8.274a.12.a, which makes them work authorized incident to status.

I agree, K3's are authorized to apply for an EAD (and subsequently work), same as a K1 (no EAD, no work). The big difference is a K1 can walk into a SSA office and get a SSN without an EAD within the first 76 days of presence; a K3 cannot. We tried. CRF8.274a.12.a(9) contradicts CRF8.274a.12.a by stating "as evidenced by an employment authorization document". When we went to the SSA they wanted either an EAD or GC.

This is a much bigger issue this year when a SSN is required for a tax rebate. Rin does not work, therefore we had no prior need to adjust status and apply for EAD (and a SSN). Our plan has always been to file this summer and get her GC after Oct. 9th (our 2nd anniversary) so that we didn't have to lift conditions (and deal with USCIS again until naturalization three years from now) as she should be issued a 10 yr GC. After the rebate was passed by congress, our plans were on a much tighter time frame. We filed an extension with the IRS (gives us until October 15th to file), and will file AOS for Rin and her children this month. When we get EAD (three months puts us in September) we will get the SSN's for all then file taxes. If I filed today - rebate = $0. Waiting until we have SSN's - rebate = $2,100. I sure hope the EAD isn't delayed!

Edited June 12, 2008 by rin and john

[RaTBoX 1]

The big difference is a K1 can walk into a SSA office and get a SSN without an EAD within the first 76 days of presence; a K3 cannot. We tried. CRF8.274a.12.a(9) contradicts CRF8.274a.12.a by stating "as evidenced by an employment authorization document". When we went to the SSA they wanted either an EAD or GC.

I don't understand how "CRF8.274a.12.a(9) contradicts CRF8.274a.12.a".

"Any alien who is within a class of aliens described in paragraphs (a)(3), (a)(4), (a)(6)–(a)(8), (a)(10)–(a)(15), or (a)(20) of this section, and who seeks to be employed in the United States, must apply to U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) for a document evidencing such employment authorization. "

This section only refers to categories (a)(3), (a)(4), (a)(6)–(a)(8), (a)(10)–(a)(15), and (a)(20). Individuals who fall under these categories "must apply to U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) for a document evidencing such employment authorization".

That part has nothing to do with K3 individuals who are category (a)(9). The rest of the section does (i.e. "Pursuant to the statutory or regulatory reference cited, the following classes of aliens are authorized to be employed in the United States without restrictions as to location or type of employment as a condition of their admission or subsequent change to one of the indicated classes.").

K3 holders don't need an EAD to show they are work authorized. This is totally separate to the SSA requiring an GC or an EAD to give K3 holders a Social Security Number. The SSA has it's own set of rules and policies. CFR8 is there to define what the USCIS does. CFR20 is about SSA.

[rin and john 71]

The big difference is a K1 can walk into a SSA office and get a SSN without an EAD within the first 76 days of presence; a K3 cannot. We tried. CRF8.274a.12.a(9) contradicts CRF8.274a.12.a by stating "as evidenced by an employment authorization document". When we went to the SSA they wanted either an EAD or GC.

I don't understand how "CRF8.274a.12.a(9) contradicts CRF8.274a.12.a".

"Any alien who is within a class of aliens described in paragraphs (a)(3), (a)(4), (a)(6)–(a)(8), (a)(10)–(a)(15), or (a)(20) of this section, and who seeks to be employed in the United States, must apply to U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) for a document evidencing such employment authorization. "

This section only refers to categories (a)(3), (a)(4), (a)(6)–(a)(8), (a)(10)–(a)(15), and (a)(20). Individuals who fall under these categories "must apply to U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) for a document evidencing such employment authorization".

That part has nothing to do with K3 individuals who are category (a)(9). The rest of the section does (i.e. "Pursuant to the statutory or regulatory reference cited, the following classes of aliens are authorized to be employed in the United States without restrictions as to location or type of employment as a condition of their admission or subsequent change to one of the indicated classes.").

K3 holders don't need an EAD to show they are work authorized. This is totally separate to the SSA requiring an GC or an EAD to give K3 holders a Social Security Number. The SSA has it's own set of rules and policies. CFR8 is there to define what the USCIS does. CFR20 is about SSA.

The contradiction is section CRF8.274a.12.a omits (a)(9), K-3 visa holders, from having to apply for EAD. Section CRF8.274a.12.a(9) states: "(9) Any alien admitted as a nonimmigrant spouse pursuant to section 101(a)(15)(K)(ii) of the Act, or an alien admitted as a child of such alien, for the period of admission in that status, as evidenced by an employment authorization document, with an expiration date issued by the Service;". Unless a K-3 applies for the EAD, how are they supposed to provide evidence of an "employment authorization document"? I suppose K-3's should get EAD's from USCIS upon arrival at the airport (as some K-1's have in the past). It would be interesting to know if anyone has been able to get EAD stamp in passport with a K-3 visa.

John