IS YOUR WIFE THE SAME ONCE IN THE USA???

[tmma 467]

This is from a website that intorduces foreign men to Colombian women.

"Colombian women posses qualities that many American and other foreign men desire, but that the Colombian man does not appreciate. Many of these qualities have disappeared or are hard to find in the modern cultures of the developed countries (USA, Canada, UK).

Colombian women have a more traditional outlook on marriage. They are devoted to their husbands and family. They are raised to be proud mothers and are home minded. They believe the most important things in the world are their children and the happiness of their family. Colombian women are genuine, loyal, honest, romantic, tender, and yes, they are very passionate women and strive to make their mates happy in every way.

There are beautiful, educated, and sexy women throughout Colombia and many other Latin American countries that really want to meet sincere men to be their husbands, lovers, and best friend."

Someone that compliments you...not COMPETES against you

Ask any man that has been to Colombia............they will tell you the same thing!!

I really think this is just web advertising.......I wouldn't take it as some cultural truth.........

I am absolutly sure that not every woman from Columbia is like that-there are good and bad people ( men and women) everywhere!

It sounds like a sales pitch for an " item".

One of the many things I love about my fiance is that he has never felt " in competition" with me.

Despite the fact that I have an advanced degree and am very career minded, he actually supports me in achieving my personal goals-and is extremely proud of it and not threatened at all!

To me that is an indicator of how secure he is with himself and with me in our relationship!

[Euro 3]

Typically when young, attractive, foreign women step off airplanes in the United States, they are greeted by a throng of unshaven, man-hating lesbians who kidnap them and allow them only organic and free-range food farmed by radical feminist collectives. Sometimes they even teach them how to read and speak English.

JEEZ I DON'T KNOW, BUT I BET IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR, I KNOW WHY YOU HAD TO GO TO COLOMBIA TO FIND A WIFE.

Puke.

[desert_fox 32]

This is from a website that intorduces foreign men to Colombian women.

"Colombian women posses qualities that many American and other foreign men desire, but that the Colombian man does not appreciate. Many of these qualities have disappeared or are hard to find in the modern cultures of the developed countries (USA, Canada, UK).

Colombian women have a more traditional outlook on marriage. They are devoted to their husbands and family. They are raised to be proud mothers and are home minded. They believe the most important things in the world are their children and the happiness of their family. Colombian women are genuine, loyal, honest, romantic, tender, and yes, they are very passionate women and strive to make their mates happy in every way.

There are beautiful, educated, and sexy women throughout Colombia and many other Latin American countries that really want to meet sincere men to be their husbands, lovers, and best friend."

Someone that compliments you...not COMPETES against you

Ask any man that has been to Colombia............they will tell you the same thing!!

This is how you met your wife??...you paid for this service??? You believe all advertising is true??

You talk os wisdom???? Are you familiar with the new Marriage Brokers Act??? You talk of wissdom???...gimme a break. You have come here and insulted every American woman, and accused every American man who disagreed with your premise as being weak.

I could tell you storied os Colombianas that is totally different from what you have read. They do have a world-wide reputation, and most a desperate to get out of Colombia.l

[pedroh 21]

zomg! longest thread ever

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

zomg! longest thread ever

There have been longer but those never stay on topic... this one (best I can tell) is more or less on topic... which is amazing

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

This thread is the best thread ever !!!!

Seriously, though... perception is everything.

I happened to see this article from a Canadian website called Status of Women in Canada. It's very interesting reading. What especially caught my eye were its "profiles" of men and women in the "mail-order bride" or "MOB" trade, its breakdown of general perceptions and expectations, and how closely many of these points match some of the sentiments expressed in this very thread.

Do I think everyone who meets their foreign spouse through an agency matches this description ? Of course not. But some do.

Enjoy !

1.3 Profiles of Actors in the Mail-Order Bride Trade

The mail-order bride trade feeds on highly unrealistic and contradictory expectations about marital relationships. The consumer-husband is looking for a docile, submissive and subservient bride whom he can control and dominate. The bride, on the other hand, longs for an American of the Hollywood star variety, a good husband, a respectful, faithful and loving father. This trade is founded on the crudest of stereotypes, where the merchants of dreams, the MOB agencies, get rich at the expense of the consumer-husbands, but above all at the expense of the brides.

In this section, we draw a portrait of the actors involved in the mail-order bride industry. We attempt to build a profile of consumer-husbands (1.3.1) and the brides (1.3.2), having regard to their personal characteristics, their life stories, their motivation for participating in this practice, their expectations and their fears. We then describe the agencies that participate in the mail-order bride trade by performing introductions (1.3.3).

However, before we move on to that description, a word of warning. We had no access to empirical research analysing the mail-order bride trade in Canada. As a consequence, in order to produce some sort of profile of the actors involved, we drew on anecdotes, newspaper reports, information available on MOB Web sites, and studies, mostly American, that had examined the phenomenon.26 We also took information from Canadian court cases, which, in their statement of facts, provided descriptions of the wives and fiancées as well as their sponsor-husbands.

The profiles we sketch here are thus, to a certain extent, impressionistic. These profiles, derived from indirect data, allow us to explain some of the dynamics and certain characteristic traits of the social phenomenon of mail-order brides, without nevertheless claiming to paint a finished portrait.

1.3.1 Profile of Consumer-Husbands

In 1985, the Japanese American Citizen League proposed a rather unsympathetic summary portrait of consumer-husbands in search of a bride:27

[The consumer-husbands are] white, much older than the brides they choose, socially alienated, experience a feeling of personal inadequacy, politically conservative, frustrated by the women's movement, and find the traditional Asian value of deference to men reassuring.

More specifically, consumer-husbands who take part in the MOB trade are middle-class and have an average annual income of about US$20,000,28 having completed a minimum of two years of college. Some of them hold management or professional positions.29 They are mainly white.30 While the median age of the consumer-husbands is 37,31 many anecdotes and the caselaw relating to spousal and fiancée visas indicate that these men are generally older. The majority, nonetheless, express the desire to have children with the bride.32 Frequently they have been married once before,33 have grown children34 and have experienced a painful divorce. They have remained bitter,35 harbouring resentment against women of their own nationality.

From the standpoint of ideas, the consumer-husbands describe themselves as ideologically and politically conservative.36 They are distinguishable above all by their hatred and fear of the feminist movement.37 They attribute the loss of the traditional values they hold dear to the women's movement.38 They reject women of their own nationality as wives because they consider them to be aggressive39 and egotistical,40 and believe they are too ambitious professionally, make excessive demands in marriage, and have expectations of equality with their husbands.41 They criticize the desire of women for autonomy, independence and equality. On the Internet, anti-feminist backlash is a recurring theme on MOB Web sites.42

Anti-feminism provides an incentive for meeting a submissive, obedient and subordinate bride as the ideal model wife for a traditional marriage.43 The consumer-husbands thus cling to a double misogyny. While on the one hand they are looking for a docile and submissive bride, on the other hand they harbour an inordinate fear of manipulative women who only want to mislead them and use them for the purpose of immigrating, and who lack sincerity in their efforts to wed . For example, a consumer-husband who says he is very satisfied with his bride feeds those fears by posting information on the Internet to warn potential consumer-husbands against being cheated by unscrupulous and desperate brides.44

The consumer-husbands praise traditional family values based on the division of labour, respect for the man as head of the family, and the woman's role as wife and mother. In their marital relationships, their insecurity45 leads to a need for control and power over their wives.46 They are looking for domestic and sexual services47 supplied by young, poorly educated brides whom they can keep under control,48 rather than pursuing love and a stable relationship.49 The consumer-husbands spend large amounts of money to obtain their brides. In return, they expect services commensurate with the price paid.50 Some of them even boast about having "bought" brides because they cost less than the services of prostitutes.51 What is more, the consumer-husbands hope to receive the gratitude of the brides as their saviours who enabled them to immigrate to their country and took them out of their misery. 52

Although we do not have any cases relating directly to mail-order brides, the caselaw with regard to fiancée and spousal visas confirms this less than flattering image of embittered and suspicious men53 looking for an undemanding, submissive, docile and "domesticated" wife. For example, some sponsors distrust women from their own country who are only after their money.54 The experience of a painful divorce makes the men more distrustful in their search for a new wife.55 Furthermore, some authors observe that more and more consumer-husbands are using the MOB trade to fill their need for personal care, due to either chronic health problems or old age.56 In that case, the bride, more an employee than a spouse, plays the role of nurse.57

1.3.2 Profile of Brides

It is easier to draw a profile of the brides than of the consumer-husbands since the Web sites contain a wealth of personal information about them. However, the brides are not a homogeneous group. Consequently, we shall present a range of common characteristics and underline certain significant distinctions. 58

MOB agencies distinguish between brides from different parts of the world: Asia, South America, Eastern Europe and Africa. Political instability and economic crises on all those continents affect the people living there, particularly women.59 All over the world, women are the first casualties of economies in trouble since, in most countries, education, training and property ownership are inaccessible to them, if not prohibited.60 These second-class citizens are therefore the first to suffer the effects of economic and political crises. Even so, the general factors leading brides to get involved in the MOB trade differ from place to place. Brides from certain countries in Asia, such as the Philippines, emigrate because of deep poverty, malnutrition, high unemployment and the heavy foreign debt.61 On the other hand, the general chaos, deteriorating living conditions, and uncertainty about the future cause numerous brides from countries in Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union to set out for the First World. Moreover, the marketing of these brides by agencies became possible only with the end of the Cold War and the lifting of restrictions on travel and living abroad, as well as the liberalization of immigration rules.62

The brides vary in age and education. The Web sites offer brides who range in age from 15 to 52.63 Here also, we must distinguish between brides of different origins. In fact, the average age of brides from Asia is much lower than that of brides from Eastern Europe.64 As a result, their educational levels also vary, with women from Eastern Europe being generally more educated than their Asian counterparts. However, women of all educational levels take their chances at becoming mail-order brides. 65

Mail-order brides are often religious. Consequently, in the majority of cases, they will exert every effort to avoid the failure of their marriage and the humiliation flowing from divorce. Several embrace the traditional values of family, fidelity and devotion.66 In this connection, the MOB agencies exploit stereotypes of the brides base d on their place of origin. For example, MOB Web sites praise the merits of Russian women, who are traditional and eager to please.67 On the other hand, Asian women are associated with "china dolls": submissive, silent, obedient and devoted to their men. They are also depicted as exotic and erotic. 68

We should also note that the brides tend to mistrust the legal system and therefore are not inclined to use it to assert their rights because of their experience with corruption, dictatorship, and the non-litigious approach in their countries of origin.

One of the reasons brides decide to enter the MOB market is to try to improve their living conditions.69 North American prosperity is a great attraction for women who have the courage to give themselves a fresh start.70 In fact, the brides experience serious difficulties meeting their basic needs in their countries of origin. At best, they are trying to provide for their own needs so as not to become a burden on their families. At worst, they are supporting their families. In such circumstances, marriage to a prosperous consumer-husband in a First World country is one way of guaranteeing the survival of their families.71 Indeed, after immigrating to Canada, they send money home to their close relatives and then enable them to immigrate by sponsoring them.

While one of the factors leading to their participation in the MOB trade is economic necessity, the brides themselves speak differently about their personal motivations. Romantic thoughts seems to be a characteristic common to many brides. They say that they are attracted to American men who resemble movie stars: tall, white and blue-eyed.72 Like the consumer-husbands who reject women of their own nationality, Philippine, Thai or Russian women complain about the men in their countries. Instead, they idealize the American man as a father and husband. From him they expect love, attention, a sense of responsibility, fidelity and sincerity.73 Web sites are careful to reassure consumer-husbands that the brides are not concerned about the age, appearance or health of the men they are seeking.74 In short, the brides "see American males as their 'Knights in shining armor' who will snatch them away from their life of poverty and oppression."75 While the allure of the American myths portrayed in Hollywood films is a partial motivation for this search for marital relations based on love and romance, the unequal relationships between men and women in the women's countries of origin also provide part of the explanation.

Finally, several personal accounts suggest that it is not the bride herself who seeks out the services of MOB agencies. Some brides explain that friends, family members or mere acquaintances gave their photograph to the agency with their consent or without informing them.76 Only after receiving letters, followed by gifts, do they begin to envisage the possibility of immigrating to a Western country. It may be that some of these personal accounts reflect the woman's need not to acknowledge that she is the one responsible for her fate. Thus, her passive posture makes it easier for her to save face, since someone else initiated her involvement. However, it is even more probable that the aggressive actions of agencies in search of women to offer to their clients encourage the brides to supply them with new names, with or without financial reward. The documents available to us do not enable us to establish the exact nature of the actions of the MOB agencies.

Edited to say: Oops I forgot the link:

http://www.swc-cfc.gc.ca/pubs/pubspr/06623...1252X_14_e.html

Edited May 11, 2006 by wife_of_mahmoud

[Fandango 1,439]

I see pedroh you ignored my response to you

[TracyTN 237]

Dr. J....you never answered my questions. I really want to know if your fiancee knows you think she's SPANISH?

Another yet unanswered question...!

This thread is cool.

[tmma 467]

Well, I'm coming from the other point of view in that one of the things I love about my husband is that he is so family oriented. I think that we can all agree that there is a major breakdown in alot of American familes. Yes, I think I could have found an American man with great family values--just like there are women--but there are alot of other societies that are more family based then America. I mean, the women here only get 6 weeks for maternity leave. In Nigeria they get one to two years. Just one example.

EXACTLY.......just enough time for the "goods" to heal up and throw yo kid in daycare and get out there and MAKE THAT MONEY!!! now whta does that do to society??? what the heck is 6 weeks maternity going to do??? NOTHING.......you just brought a life into this world...and you get 6 weeks....CMON.......I think the culture here prioritzes MONEY first ...then family last.......and alot of women AND MEN are buying into it...as a result...families are dying.

Uhm....what are "the goods"?

I am wondering if your fiancees 4 months at college learning English is good enough by now to understand some of the disparaging terms you are spouting.

You were going on and on about how great it is .....and how everyone is happy and content ...blah blah blah where she is from...So why are you dragging someone you love from that veritable moral Shang-Rila to America, where we have a "breakdown " of family units, working mothers, equal oppertunity, scary human rights and ( gasp) single parents?

Never answered mine-I asked it twice-but he took off

sorry-wrong attachment on my last post ( this thread is so long) I meant to quote this one-but both say the same thing....

QUOTE(Dr. J @ May 10 2006, 06:04 PM)

QUOTE(Chuckles @ May 10 2006, 04:57 PM)

QUOTE(robinklake @ May 10 2006, 03:40 PM)

Yes it is sad when a child gets a critical illness and health insurance won't cover it, forcing them to bankruptcy -- I guess people should plan better for these things.

Ok, now you are getting way out of context. As I stated somewhere, all situations are different, and if it is what you must do, and it is working, GREAT.

I will have to respectfully disagree with you here. My experiences have shown me I can live with less and enjoy life more. I have seen other cultures and countries that have horrible goverments, but great people that know this truth.

So, there is no way I will see your side, and no way you will see mine.

QUOTE-Dr J--CHUCK...give it up...they are NEVER going to understand........they may need to just visit another country and see 8 people living a home and 2 people working.......but they have food and bills are paid....AND they are content with their lives...they dont watch TV all day seeing NEW CARS...BIGGER HOMES...NEW CLOTHES...and get greedy and materialistic...because family is what matters....but anyone in a society that has NEVER experienced that will not understand...I was like that BEFORE I visited Colombia......WANTED ALL THESE MATERIAL THINGS in life.....but when you on your death bead...you not sitting there thinking about how much more money you could have made....how many MORE hours you could have spent at the job...or that NEW CAR that you wish you had bought....NOPE...you are thinkign about your family...people that you wish you could appolgize too.....etc. So when it all comes down to it..RELATIONSHIPS are the number one important thing in this world....RELATIONSHIPS and how we relate to eachother......not MONEY.--End Quote

Just a question.....If it's so great there, why bring someone you love here ( where there is such bad moral corruption and love of money)-could the reason be anything at all to do with money or the ability to earn a living??This post has been edited by tmma: Today, 09:24 AM

Edited May 11, 2006 by tmma

[ivona 0]

This is from a website that intorduces foreign men to Colombian women.

"Colombian women posses qualities that many American and other foreign men desire, but that the Colombian man does not appreciate. Many of these qualities have disappeared or are hard to find in the modern cultures of the developed countries (USA, Canada, UK).

Colombian women have a more traditional outlook on marriage. They are devoted to their husbands and family. They are raised to be proud mothers and are home minded. They believe the most important things in the world are their children and the happiness of their family. Colombian women are genuine, loyal, honest, romantic, tender, and yes, they are very passionate women and strive to make their mates happy in every way.

There are beautiful, educated, and sexy women throughout Colombia and many other Latin American countries that really want to meet sincere men to be their husbands, lovers, and best friend."

Someone that compliments you...not COMPETES against you

Ask any man that has been to Colombia............they will tell you the same thing!!

Dr. J, you found this particular bit of text on a web site that makes their profit from introducing men to Colombian women... it is called marketing, it is called selling a product- in this case the product being a woman from Colombia, or Russia, or Ukraine, or even Croatia for that matter....you will find many web sites specializing in this exact thing, selling a product of a "traditional bride" to men from mostly Western countries, who feel they cannot find a partner they wish to have somewhere closer to home..... we may not like this, but it is a fact of life

every seller will praise its product, they want to sell it to you and will not jeopardize that sale by giving you negative information on it, surely you can see that....

on a more important matter, can you understand that we (or I, at least) have no problem with what you seek from your partner, wife and your life together...by all means, you are an individual- if you are not hurting anyone and allow others to do their own thing under that same premise, go for it.....

can you understand that the majority of posters on this thread are simply trying to say that what kind of a person someone is, has absolutely nothing to do with what country they are from? to generalize in any way and on any basis is just downright stupid.....

on a note: Lisa D may I just say I find your avatar so completely appropriate for this thread

Edited May 11, 2006 by ivona

[Welshcookie 17]

wife_of_mahmoud.................interesting read.....

[Jenn! 918]

can you understand that the majority of posters on this thread are simply trying to say that what kind of a person someone is, has absolutely nothing to do with what country they are from? to generalize in any way and on any basis is just downright stupid.....[/color]

I totally disagree! For better or worse, I would not be the same person I am today had I been a citizen of/been raised in a country other than the U.S. Do you really think that our environment doesn't contribute to who we are?

[HARLANC 0]

geezzzz

am i the only one that give this guy an simple answer ?

[ivona 0]

can you understand that the majority of posters on this thread are simply trying to say that what kind of a person someone is, has absolutely nothing to do with what country they are from? to generalize in any way and on any basis is just downright stupid.....[/color]

I totally disagree! For better or worse, I would not be the same person I am today had I been a citizen of/been raised in a country other than the U.S. Do you really think that our environment doesn't contribute to who we are?

I do not agree with tabula rasa theory, I do think environment plays a role to an extent, at the same time it is mostly very specific, close hand environment i.e. family/ friends that influences personal growth and development and even then only up to a certain age bracket- a relatively low age bracket .... anyone who wishes to claim that a certain country, skin colour, or native language, or sexual orientation automatically guarantee a person with a specific set of values and behaviours will need to provide me with VERY specific and detailed data, factoid data before I agree to change my opinion on this

Edited May 11, 2006 by ivona

[Jenn! 918]

can you understand that the majority of posters on this thread are simply trying to say that what kind of a person someone is, has absolutely nothing to do with what country they are from? to generalize in any way and on any basis is just downright stupid.....[/color]

I totally disagree! For better or worse, I would not be the same person I am today had I been a citizen of/been raised in a country other than the U.S. Do you really think that our environment doesn't contribute to who we are?

I do not agree with tabula rasa theory, however environment does play a role to an extent, at the same time it is mostly very specific, close hand environment i.e. family/ friends that influences personal growth and development and even then only up to a certain age bracket- a relatively low age bracket .... anyone who wishes to claim that a certain country, skin colour, or native lanugage, or sexual orientation automatically guarantee a person with a specific set of values and behaviours will need to provide me with VERY specific and detailed data, factoid data before I agree to change my opinion on this

There are very few things that can be shown to "automatically guarantee" anything. You put someone in a tough position to debate with you when you assign to them such a hefty task.

Making a generalization about a group of people does not mean that you are implying that every single member of that group shares that characterisitic. It is just an observation that certain characteristics may be more common in one group than in another group.

Edited May 11, 2006 by jenn3539