IS YOUR WIFE THE SAME ONCE IN THE USA???

[ivona 0]

ok, yesterday I was laughing my a$$ off, incredulous that I was really reading what was written here, and even more so that someone actually put it down in complete seriousness...today, however I am just downright pi$$ed.....

stop it with the machismo of promoting traditional values and saying it is the women who do not wish to comply with them, stop it with the materialistic bollocks, and just finally STOP IT WITH GENERALIZATIONS... about men, about women, about Americans, about British, about Europeans, about Blacks, about Spanish speaking peoples.....

I am a woman raised in a socialist/ now capitalist transitional country, I am now moving to US because it cannot be helped, I will become a mom at 25 for the first time because of my beautiful stepson, I will work- and do what I like, I will give birth when we both agree it is what we want to do, when that happens I will try to arrange my work so I can work from home, my husband will for some period at least be a stay at home dad, I am highly educated, I have my own opinions and I have absolutely no problem in expressing them- which is one of the reasons why my future husband fell in love with me....ABOVE ALL ELSE, LIKE EVERYONE ELSE HERE I AM AN INDIVIDUAL, AN INDIVIDUAL WHOM YOU DO NOT KNOW- do not try to push your beliefs and opinions as somehow above and more worthy then my own.... after all, I am letting you have yours, even if I might be in complete disagreement....

in the wise words of one poster, let us all start acting like reposnible adults and agree to disagree...

someone lock this thread down, please

[KarenCee 3]

All to often marriages do not work out because people do not want to work for it. Anything worth having is worth investing in and nothing good comes free without effort. Now it is true there are some scum bucket men out there, but seems our women prefer these guys...(bad boys). Before anyone stones me (ladies), realize that over 50% of all marriages end in divorce and greater than 80% of divorces are originated by the wifes. I think facts speak for itself. I have been through a marriage here and have been the beneficiary of the typical divorce scenario. Have child, wife cheats and wants something more challenging, divorces me to persue her knight in shining armor. legal nightmare, child support, asset fight, bankruptcy and now our child is in a broken home due to her selfishness. I do not and would not ever say that all our American women are like this, but a growing majority would be a fair statement.

Listen...My ex abused me. Mentally, emotionally, physically at times. I tried to make my marriage work for the sake of my child and I was married for 20 years. I do NOT prefer those "bad boys" you infer in the above statement. Yes, half of all marriages do fail in America and I'm sorry you have obviously been the recipient of a divorce. BUT...if you have done as much reserch as you say you have then surely you've seen that not ALL women are like the one described above. When I left my ex...yes, I was the one that left...I didn't get anything except the clothes and my child. I have been through some hard times since leaving him...but I wouldn't change a thing. How do YOU propose that I explain to my then 3 yr old why her daddy hit her momma? I didnt cheat on my ex, nor did I "take him to the cleaners". It was 14 months before I received any child support from him. His lawyer was so good that I lost everything that I helped him pay for. I guess that means I had a sorry lawyer. The alternative...staying in an abusive marriage and watch my daughter grow up thinking it's the norm. No way.

You are generalizing just like the few on here who support this medieval idea. As for being selfish...I am very SELFLESS. My daughter gets what she needs before I do. I have always made sure her well being was put before mine. Yes I work, but my job was chosen so that it centers around her schedule. When she is off so am I. I realize you say that not all American women are this way but I think you'll find that there are some foreign women like this too...marrying an American man just for a greencard. Have you done extensive research on that? Of course you are going to get a backlash from all this...after all, this is the 21st century...there are a lot of single moms and single dads out there and to have their values questioned by the likes of a few who believe in very old fashioned ideals will create the flurry you have seen on this thread. And before you go off on me...I was a stay at home mom...I did everything he wanted me to do and it still wasnt enough. To this day I dont understand why he felt the need to abuse me.

I have a wonderful man in my life now who loves me as deeply as I love him...we respect each other and one is not above the other. He is not one of those "bad boys" you alluded to earlier. He also loves my daughter as if she were his own. I am the luckiest girl! So, take your research, add a few more elements to it and see how the results change. You might have a bit more understanding for those of us who aren't like the women you refer to as materialistic.

Edited May 11, 2006 by KarenCee

[Fuzzness 2]

*looks at watch*

where in the hell could religion be? he's late for this thread!

[Jenn! 918]

A generalization is just that, speaking generally about a group of people. Seems like you can't do this anymore without offending people. I think it's incorrect to say that there hasn't been a change in the role of family in American society. Whether you believe it's been detrimental or not is ultimately your call because it depends on what YOU value.

Women here seem to be overly sensitive to comments about American women's lack of "traditional" values. Some people may see traditional as a good thing, others see it as oppressive. What's the point in all this arguing. You all apparently value different things, how can you possibly agree on this?

[MichelleandCraig 1]

good post Karen. I too worked around Corey asmuch as possible...I was on 2nd shift in the very beginning when the ex and I were together...as soon as he finally left for good (it was always my place...deadbeat didnt' work much of the time) I went to 3rd shift so I could work at night and sleep while he was in school. Some of do everything we can to keep the 'family life' in tact, while still doing what we NEED to do. M.

Also Jenn...no..a lot of us here may never agree...but as long as we're all able to hash out our viewpoints with one another...we're probably going to keep doin' it!

Edited May 11, 2006 by MichelleandCraig

[TracyTN 237]

So there's not an American woman around with family values?

Come on, ladies, don't sweat it so much. You really just have to laugh at them. I find it hysterical. The internet truly does give people balls of steel. No way they'd walk into their corner pub and say this (although I'm sure they claim they would).

No one is really THAT dumb.

I'll tell it to your face in a heartbeat and have many times (not yours, of course). I'm sure the rest of these guys would too.

[vvill 0]

my wife is american, i'm just a permie resident. i'm very happy with her and vice versa otherwise we wouldn't have done all this. as for family values etc i think that there is perhaps an underlying general trend in modern society (what that trend is exactly, i'm not going to attempt to elaborate on), and it may have been manifested foremost in america, but it is certainly not just something that has happened in america.

i have no problems with either partner initiating a split if they feel they are not being respected or fairly treated. both partners have the same rights. if there are in fact more women initiaiting these then i guess it just means there are more women who've either chosen poorly or been misled to begin with.

and now i don't really have much else to say besides lol @ this thread

[Dr. J 0]

As far as american woman initiating most divorces maybe you are right. I intiated mine. Got sick of being the only one that worked and coming home and seeing dad sitting on the couch drunk and stoned. Of course he didn't want a divorce i supported him for many years (for the sake of the kids). I see many woman at work going through same thing (Dads not working). Now i know there are many good american men out there dont' get me wrong but you know they are just too hard to find and so i went foreign yes. So this subject can go both ways. Peace

You are right....why foreign cultures appreciate family values more??? Why dont us as americans appreciate family as much as .....back in the day...say 50 years ago???

[Ken and Inna 0]

Written by a woman about women, in this case comparing American women to former USSR women.

"Are Russian women's personalities different from Western women?

Yes, they are a bit different. They don't have a different type of character, and they also love shopping and chatting. They are human beings and they are definitely not perfect. The main difference is that they are much more patient and can tolerate things that Western women will never be able to bear. They are more considerate and dependable. They are partners, not competitors."

[Freda 0]

Well said Karen. I wonder if there is anyone out there with the stats on just exactly why 80% of women filed for divorce? I like so many more did my part. I stayed at home and raised my daughgters until they started school. Went back to school became a nurse and did my part to contribute to the household. Still did 99.9% of the household chores. So ummmmmmmmm where did I go wrong? I was there when he needed me always. And still he found the need to go find someone half his age. Just from reading the thread and seeing the reasons for the women here filing for divorce. Looks like woman may have intitated the divorce proceedings. But I wonder what the stats are for women who did it because the man was to blame and she did what she thought best to protect her children. I don't know about ya'll but I'd rather have my daughters the product of a broken home than see a father cheating ( abusing, or whatever) and thinking it's ok and that they themselves should accept that.

And then I'd like to know, I know working and being able to contribute makes me feel equal. Gives me a lot of selfworth and a feeling of independence. If your wife choose to work to make her feel like a more balanced and happier woman, wouldn't this add to you happiness. After all don't we all be male or female feel better and act better when we have selfworth?

[Dr. J 0]

I am not judging any given person. I they are cheating, lying, sorry, abusing...then certainly who could fault you for leaving them!!! not I. However I do not hang around the kind of men you are speaking of...it has generally been the reverse in the ones I am familiar with. I truly am not trying to stero type anyone. However I have had indepth conversations on the subject with even other women who were objective and they admitted many of the references I have made to be true. Granted as my sister stated...it would be best not to state it publicly since women would probably rip you a new one...as some are tryng to do now. Look you can classify men however you wish..I do not know the percentage of bad men, husbands, fathers etc. I would not be offended in the slightest...why...because I know within my being that I have always made the effort to treat everyone as I would want to be treated and always try to better myself in my personal short comings. I put my family before myself and give 100% not just 50% to the relationship...many can't honestly claim this.

Good night to everyone...sorry for ruffling anyones feathers. I am not anti-women or anti-womens rights I am simply pro-family and pro-traditional values and if that is a problem then tough. Me and my fiancee see eye to eye and that is what is important...not what anyone else thinks.

AMEN!!!....and they wonder why their husbands be creepin out the door with other women...

[TracyTN 237]

I agree with you! it is not true on the whole...never said it was, however realize it is much harder in the US to find this especially since fakeness, lies, manipulation and alterior motives play into effect much more in our culture than selective others. It is all to easy for people to pretend and express to be something they are not and many times they are very good at hiding the real person...at least for the short term. Now for instance in the former USSR women want similar things as US women, however fakeness, lies, and manipulation are much less common. Generally they are serious, genuine, determined, educated and very family oriented...in fact they would prefer to make a cosy home over a highly successul career...meaning they are not nearly as material as most americans are. Now this scenario is speaking on a majority scale but since people are individuals of course it is not absolute for everyone. So to clarify...you have to dig through much more ####### here and take a significantly bigger risk to find the same charecter.

Curiosity. How long have you lived in one of former USSR countries ? I mean, outside visits ?

Very good question (still unanswered).

[Dr. J 0]

I have an IQ in the triple digits and I understand just fine. It's you that can't seem to understand what we are saying.

there is a difference in knowledge and wisdom.......seems like you don't understand that because all you have is knowledge.....not wisdom. And wisdom can not be measured by an IQ test or some other test created by a MAN.......

[ceriserose 1]

goodness... it took me ages to read through this thread. i laughed, i shouted, i farted...

i am gonna say my piece before this thread gets deleted and we all get banned for the next 10 years!

and this is not directed at any one person... rather on all the various opinions that are running around this thread...

1) don't start a thread unless you are sure that you are saying what you REALLY mean. otherwise you come off as an idiot. people here are fast with the reply button and will cut you deep if they are offended. so be careful to express yourself with intelligence, and with proper spelling & grammar. if you can't do that, be prepared for the hellfire that comes. on the flipside, give a poster a chance to redeem themselves before stoning him/her to death, esp. if its a newbie. i know its a hot button topic, but damn y'all... give peace a chance!

2) don't base your opinion on some scumbag/skeezer that did you wrong. i've had some of the worst exes in history but (thankfully) they are not representative of an entire nation, race, or gender. and just because you found a wonderful lover in whatever foreign country doesn't mean that that country's men/women are so much better than what you could find in America. gold-digging, cheating, abusive, lying, manipulative people are international and eternal! luck of the draw...

3) don't confuse need with greed. my hubby and i live simply. we have ONE car that gets damn good mileage, a modest apartment, meager possesions. we don't waste money, nor do we hoard it. $35k is a joke. after state, federal, city wage taxes, health, life and car insurance, student loans, electric, gas, water, cable, internet, groceries, diesel, laundry and the occasional $20 at the movies, we'd maybe have enough to maybe buy a 'hot wheels' mercedes. i couldn't tell you the last time i got a manicure. and we for sure don't use credit cards. its debit, cheque or cash! America is a rough place to live, especially in the cities. I don't think anyone on VJ is filthy rich (if so, PM me! ) so the comments on greed were pretty... erm, DUMB, in my opinion since they don't reflect the reality of the everyday Bob in Brooklyn.

4) the world isn't changing. bad marriages have always been around (from Henry VIII to Liz Taylor to J. Lo). the main thing now is more women AND men are not content to spend 50+ years with someone they despise just because society or religion or their family says so. more divorces, so what? that only means you respect marriage enough not to dishonor it by staying with someone you don't love, cherish, trust or respect anymore (or who feels that way about you)! living a lie is not a value!

and for the 'fact-lovers' who think its us women who are wrecking the family...

back in the day, only MEN could divorce their wives, so of course the statistics were low (i wouldn't divorce my cooking, cleaning, baby-machine either)! further, most women did not work and so could not divorce and then be left with no means of income. also, divorce was stigmatized and so was avoided when possible. it wasn't about VALUES... it was about control, economics, and societal pressures!

*by the way... the most divorces now occur in the BIBLE BELT, with people who supposedly are chock-full of values!*

5) i want to work. because i have a brain and i like that i can use it and get money for it. and i can go to bed knowing that if something happens and i (heaven forbid) end up divorced or a widow or my hubby is not able to work anymore, i can survive without depending on welfare, my parents or in a back-breaking low-wage job. i have respect for homemakers, my sister is one. but it doesn't make you more or less than the women who punch a time clock. we all love our families and do what we feel is best for them.

6) American women are not some corrupting, evil group set on destroying hearth and home. If you spread that belief to the women and children that come here, there will continue to be ignorance, bigotry, distrust and misunderstandings. Its a stupid belief, considering the mass amount of Americans that are foreign-born or of foreign-decent. What Americans are you thinking of exactly? Just the rich ones? The white ones? The black ones? The gay ones? The working ones? Treat people like individuals because (duh) that's what they are.

7) Does anyone even know what the **** a feminist IS? here is the definition of feminism; Belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes (Amer. Heritage Dict.). Therefore, a feminist has those views. How is that a negative? It doesn't mean that women can't stay home and raise kids. It doesn't mean women can't cook or clean. It means that women are also human beings entitled to love, respect, and opportunities to be educated, employed, worship and participate in politics IF THEY WANT TO. if YOUR wife/fiancee wants to stay home, its her RIGHT. just as its her right to go to school and/or work. and even the OP says his fiancee can do what makes her happy... so in effect, she's already a feminist because she believes in her right to whatever the hell she wants to do!

8) to the OP specifically -- people will change no matter what. if you love her, you will support her and help her adjust to this new life without bombarding her with preconceived notions of what she should or should not be like. the best gift you can give her is to show her that this is a place full of beautiful differences to be respected, not feared or frowned upon. i wish you the best of luck and i hope that between the rants and the giggles, that maybe you got something positive from the replies on this thread.

whew! that was exhausting... feel like i just wrote a masters thesis! i'm off to bed now... no more fighting while i'm gone please...

I just have to tell you that you SO rock. Very eloquent and balanced. (IMO for what that's worth).

[Ken and Inna 0]

I will repeat myself again...my statement was a blanket statement..by no means does it apply to every woman and from your story it does not apply to you! I only infer to a growing epidemic in our country with marriage, divorce and family. All to often we are failing the test of integrity and giving in to our lusts, greed and selfishness...this applies to men also. I believe for the most part American marriages are conducted under competition and they do not act like partners...they are all to often quick to throw in the towel and very possibly have unrealistic expectations on how things should be. Our legal system basically promotes divorce through bias asset realloctioning which absolutely gets abused and encourages fierce battles....as quoted by my divorce lawyer " Its not about whats fair but whats equitable as defined by the law" basically our Justice system is seriously unjust and to me...if they would remove the incentives to divorce..just perhaps there would be less divorce and probably less marriages in the first place...people may take a moment to really consider the charecter of their partner that they are saying " I do until death do us part"

All to often marriages do not work out because people do not want to work for it. Anything worth having is worth investing in and nothing good comes free without effort. Now it is true there are some scum bucket men out there, but seems our women prefer these guys...(bad boys). Before anyone stones me (ladies), realize that over 50% of all marriages end in divorce and greater than 80% of divorces are originated by the wifes. I think facts speak for itself. I have been through a marriage here and have been the beneficiary of the typical divorce scenario. Have child, wife cheats and wants something more challenging, divorces me to persue her knight in shining armor. legal nightmare, child support, asset fight, bankruptcy and now our child is in a broken home due to her selfishness. I do not and would not ever say that all our American women are like this, but a growing majority would be a fair statement.

Listen...My ex abused me. Mentally, emotionally, physically at times. I tried to make my marriage work for the sake of my child and I was married for 20 years. I do NOT prefer those "bad boys" you infer in the above statement. Yes, half of all marriages do fail in America and I'm sorry you have obviously been the recipient of a divorce. BUT...if you have done as much reserch as you say you have then surely you've seen that not ALL women are like the one described above. When I left my ex...yes, I was the one that left...I didn't get anything except the clothes and my child. I have been through some hard times since leaving him...but I wouldn't change a thing. How do YOU propose that I explain to my then 3 yr old why her daddy hit her momma? I didnt cheat on my ex, nor did I "take him to the cleaners". It was 14 months before I received any child support from him. His lawyer was so good that I lost everything that I helped him pay for. I guess that means I had a sorry lawyer. The alternative...staying in an abusive marriage and watch my daughter grow up thinking it's the norm. No way.

You are generalizing just like the few on here who support this medieval idea. As for being selfish...I am very SELFLESS. My daughter gets what she needs before I do. I have always made sure her well being was put before mine. Yes I work, but my job was chosen so that it centers around her schedule. When she is off so am I. I realize you say that not all American women are this way but I think you'll find that there are some foreign women like this too...marrying an American man just for a greencard. Have you done extensive research on that? Of course you are going to get a backlash from all this...after all, this is the 21st century...there are a lot of single moms and single dads out there and to have their values questioned by the likes of a few who believe in very old fashioned ideals will create the flurry you have seen on this thread. And before you go off on me...I was a stay at home mom...I did everything he wanted me to do and it still wasnt enough. To this day I dont understand why he felt the need to abuse me.

I have a wonderful man in my life now who loves me as deeply as I love him...we respect each other and one is not above the other. He is not one of those "bad boys" you alluded to earlier. He also loves my daughter as if she were his own. I am the luckiest girl! So, take your research, add a few more elements to it and see how the results change. You might have a bit more understanding for those of us who aren't like the women you refer to as materialistic.