Dual British and American citizenship?

[tammiandtom 0]

So if we go to Scotland, my husband thinks he can be very clever and enter in on his UK passport to avoid lines and then come back to the US with his US passport. But I can see now how that could not be a very good idea.

[lucyrich 20]

[Also If Vito decided to go for UK citerzenship it is my understanding that the US would see that as renouncing his US citerzenship even though he is born and bread and not naturalised. therefore he can't do it. which is sad but hey thats life.

I am not too sure about that statement. I think the US now allows you to acquire other citizenships, as I think it is quite difficult to lose your US Citizenship.

after googling again three times, i'm now very confussed and on the fence about this too. but i have yet to find an official site stating facts just knowlege and opinions and I see both being put forward. some think its a yes for us to uk some think its a no. and one stated that you could but then if you volintarily applied for foreign citerzenship you loose your us citerzenship

but then i did state it was my understanding from what i found on google. and i stand by that still. everything i have read is from the net, i haven't spoken to an attourney or what not to get the official answer.

The ways to lose US citizenship are all listed in INA 349 (8 USC 1481)

Sec. 349. [8 U.S.C. 1481]

(a) A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality-

(1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application or upon an application filed by a duly authorized agent, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or

(ways 2 through 5 of losing citizenship snipped -- go look up INA 349 on uscis.gov if you're interested)

Note that you only lose your US Citizenship if you do one of the listed things with the intent of relinquishing your US Citizenship. If you do it while intending to keep US Citizenship, then you've kept US Citizenship. Generally, they assume you intended to keep US Citizenship unless there's evidence otherwise.

That principle was upheld by the Supreme Court in Afroyim v Rusk.

A State Department memo containing a summary of their policy, and affirming that you only lose US citizenship if you intend to lose US Citizenship, is here: http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html

[lucyrich 20]

So if we go to Scotland, my husband thinks he can be very clever and enter in on his UK passport to avoid lines and then come back to the US with his US passport. But I can see now how that could not be a very good idea.

I don't know about UK law. But I am certain that US law requires that a US Citizen must present a US passport to US officials when crossing a US border. That's true regardless of whether the US Citizen also happens to hold other citizenship(s). I also know that US law doesn't address the question of what passport you should present to non-US officials. Because it's relevant to our family, I happen to know that Venezuelan law requires that Venezuelan citizens use their Venezuelan passport to cross Venezuelan borders, regardless of whether other citizenship(s) are held. So on Lucy's next trip to Venezuela, the law requires that she carry both passports, and show her US one to US officials, while showing her Venezuelan one to Venezuelan officials. The fact that it shortens the lines is irrelevant.

[tammiandtom 0]

So if we go to Scotland, my husband thinks he can be very clever and enter in on his UK passport to avoid lines and then come back to the US with his US passport. But I can see now how that could not be a very good idea.

I don't know about UK law. But I am certain that US law requires that a US Citizen must present a US passport to US officials when crossing a US border. That's true regardless of whether the US Citizen also happens to hold other citizenship(s). I also know that US law doesn't address the question of what passport you should present to non-US officials. Because it's relevant to our family, I happen to know that Venezuelan law requires that Venezuelan citizens use their Venezuelan passport to cross Venezuelan borders, regardless of whether other citizenship(s) are held. So on Lucy's next trip to Venezuela, the law requires that she carry both passports, and show her US one to US officials, while showing her Venezuelan one to Venezuelan officials. The fact that it shortens the lines is irrelevant.

That's kind of what we thought, but the more I think about it, if my husband enters Scotland on his UK passport, won't he be in the system then as never having left? If he were to use his US passport to re-enter the US? And then wouldn't the US wonder when he left the US in the first place? I know he would have to use his US one to re-enter here. I would love to hear from those that have actually done it. It makes sense to me to use the UK one to enter the UK and the US one to enter the US, but I don't know what they are tracking with the computers.

[Aussielad 37]

I am still at the beginning of the process, but am wondering...

I am presently a British citizen, and will eventually reach the stage where I am to consider having an American citizenship. I dont have any family based reasons to apply for it, but it would save me having to renew a green card in the future.

Can I keep my British citizenship too? Does anyone have both? Any opinions?

O.k.....first of all....you have a LONG way to go before you even begin to *think* about that....one day at a time.

Second of all....will ALL Brits STOP ASKING ABOUT DUAL CITIZENSHIP....for crying out loud READ....it gets asked here every single forsaken day!!!! there must be 100+ topics on "dual british/u.s. citizenship"....READ!!!!!!!

sorry....but after so many years on this vj board i think i've finally xploded....anyone else feel the same?

No I don't feel the same, if it bothers you don't bloomin well read it. This is a forum for this specific topic and this helps 'All Brits' understand they can have dual citizenship, whether the poster decided to search for this subject beforehand or not. Unleash your idle mind in an off topic forum or start a thread regarding your explosion at the Brits asking 'every single forsaken day' the same question. Muppet.

well miss piggy, if you read, you'd know right?

[Saddle Bronc 124]

So if we go to Scotland, my husband thinks he can be very clever and enter in on his UK passport to avoid lines and then come back to the US with his US passport. But I can see now how that could not be a very good idea.

I don't know about UK law. But I am certain that US law requires that a US Citizen must present a US passport to US officials when crossing a US border. That's true regardless of whether the US Citizen also happens to hold other citizenship(s). I also know that US law doesn't address the question of what passport you should present to non-US officials. Because it's relevant to our family, I happen to know that Venezuelan law requires that Venezuelan citizens use their Venezuelan passport to cross Venezuelan borders, regardless of whether other citizenship(s) are held. So on Lucy's next trip to Venezuela, the law requires that she carry both passports, and show her US one to US officials, while showing her Venezuelan one to Venezuelan officials. The fact that it shortens the lines is irrelevant.

That's kind of what we thought, but the more I think about it, if my husband enters Scotland on his UK passport, won't he be in the system then as never having left? If he were to use his US passport to re-enter the US? And then wouldn't the US wonder when he left the US in the first place? I know he would have to use his US one to re-enter here. I would love to hear from those that have actually done it. It makes sense to me to use the UK one to enter the UK and the US one to enter the US, but I don't know what they are tracking with the computers.

Tammi, this is a time-honoured technique used by dual nationals (with US or Canada) of many other countries--so it's really neither "clever", nor even an issue to US officials.

[kmineo 0]

I am a born USC and got my birth registered with Ireland to also be an Irish Citizen. Never had a bit of problem. Enter and leave the US on my US Passport and enter and leave the UK and Ireland (and the rest of the EU) on my Irish passport. Never was an issue. Even presented my Irish passport as proof of residency when applying for my wife's Green Card through DCF in London.

I do remeber reading somewhere that there has been several court cases (I think back in the 70's, and I think Supreme court) that overturned that law saying you will lose your citizenship if you become a national of another country. The site I found it on is http://www.richw.org/dualcit/faq.html#noway, It seemed fairly solid, but if worried you can read the cases it talkes about and research yourself. Here is an exert from it.:

But I thought US law didn't permit one to be a dual citizen -- that if you were (by birth or otherwise), you either had to give up the other citizenship when you came of age, or else you'd lose your US status. And that if you became a citizen of another country, you'd automatically lose your US citizenship. So what's all this talk about dual citizenship?

It indeed used to be the case in the US that you couldn't hold dual citizenship (except in certain cases if you had dual citizenship from birth or childhood, in which case some Supreme Court rulings -- Perkins v. Elg (1939), Mandoli v. Acheson (1952), and Kawakita v. U.S. (1952) -- permitted you to keep both). However, most of the laws forbidding dual citizenship were struck down by the US Supreme Court in two cases: a 1967 decision, Afroyim v. Rusk, as well as a second ruling in 1980, Vance v. Terrazas.

[poppinslp 0]

I am still at the beginning of the process, but am wondering...

I am presently a British citizen, and will eventually reach the stage where I am to consider having an American citizenship. I dont have any family based reasons to apply for it, but it would save me having to renew a green card in the future.

Can I keep my British citizenship too? Does anyone have both? Any opinions?

As previously advised, as a British citizen, you can hold dual citizenship with the US. However remember that as a US Citizen you will be responsible for filing a tax return each year with the IRS, WHEREVER you live and this tax return requires you to report GLOBAL income i.e. all income received from anywhere. The good news is that if your income does not exceed $82,000 pa (indexed each year) then you don't pay tax, BUT you still must complete a tax return.

Hi Bryand1,

I am considering going through the process of becoming a US citizen and had come across your info on taxes. Is the $82,000 combined or per person? Do you know if this is gross income? Do you know of a website I could find more information on?

Thanks

[Gemmie 142]

I am still at the beginning of the process, but am wondering...

I am presently a British citizen, and will eventually reach the stage where I am to consider having an American citizenship. I dont have any family based reasons to apply for it, but it would save me having to renew a green card in the future.

Can I keep my British citizenship too? Does anyone have both? Any opinions?

O.k.....first of all....you have a LONG way to go before you even begin to *think* about that....one day at a time.

Second of all....will ALL Brits STOP ASKING ABOUT DUAL CITIZENSHIP....for crying out loud READ....it gets asked here every single forsaken day!!!! there must be 100+ topics on "dual british/u.s. citizenship"....READ!!!!!!!

sorry....but after so many years on this vj board i think i've finally xploded....anyone else feel the same?

What can I say, we're all proud of being British.

[Hannah+Vito 0]

So if we go to Scotland, my husband thinks he can be very clever and enter in on his UK passport to avoid lines and then come back to the US with his US passport. But I can see now how that could not be a very good idea.

I don't know about UK law. But I am certain that US law requires that a US Citizen must present a US passport to US officials when crossing a US border. That's true regardless of whether the US Citizen also happens to hold other citizenship(s). I also know that US law doesn't address the question of what passport you should present to non-US officials. Because it's relevant to our family, I happen to know that Venezuelan law requires that Venezuelan citizens use their Venezuelan passport to cross Venezuelan borders, regardless of whether other citizenship(s) are held. So on Lucy's next trip to Venezuela, the law requires that she carry both passports, and show her US one to US officials, while showing her Venezuelan one to Venezuelan officials. The fact that it shortens the lines is irrelevant.

That's kind of what we thought, but the more I think about it, if my husband enters Scotland on his UK passport, won't he be in the system then as never having left? If he were to use his US passport to re-enter the US? And then wouldn't the US wonder when he left the US in the first place? I know he would have to use his US one to re-enter here. I would love to hear from those that have actually done it. It makes sense to me to use the UK one to enter the UK and the US one to enter the US, but I don't know what they are tracking with the computers.

So if we go to Scotland, my husband thinks he can be very clever and enter in on his UK passport to avoid lines and then come back to the US with his US passport. But I can see now how that could not be a very good idea.

I don't know about UK law. But I am certain that US law requires that a US Citizen must present a US passport to US officials when crossing a US border. That's true regardless of whether the US Citizen also happens to hold other citizenship(s). I also know that US law doesn't address the question of what passport you should present to non-US officials. Because it's relevant to our family, I happen to know that Venezuelan law requires that Venezuelan citizens use their Venezuelan passport to cross Venezuelan borders, regardless of whether other citizenship(s) are held. So on Lucy's next trip to Venezuela, the law requires that she carry both passports, and show her US one to US officials, while showing her Venezuelan one to Venezuelan officials. The fact that it shortens the lines is irrelevant.

That's kind of what we thought, but the more I think about it, if my husband enters Scotland on his UK passport, won't he be in the system then as never having left? If he were to use his US passport to re-enter the US? And then wouldn't the US wonder when he left the US in the first place? I know he would have to use his US one to re-enter here. I would love to hear from those that have actually done it. It makes sense to me to use the UK one to enter the UK and the US one to enter the US, but I don't know what they are tracking with the computers.

Tammi, this is a time-honoured technique used by dual nationals (with US or Canada) of many other countries--so it's really neither "clever", nor even an issue to US officials.

But what about leaving through airports, Don't you have to use the same Passport for the whole journey (one way)? I can see why you could use one for each way ( round trip/return) but could you exit the usa with your us passport jump on plane and then jump off plane and use your uk passport? surly that would be a no due to the fact they scan you passports serial number when they book you for your flight and both passports would have diff numbers no? and could you not get in trouble for exiting the usa on your UK passport? if you could for entering on one? perhaps I'm getting confussed maybe immigration does not look at them on your way out? :unsure: oh my brain is frazzled

I am a born USC and got my birth registered with Ireland to also be an Irish Citizen. Never had a bit of problem. Enter and leave the US on my US Passport and enter and leave the UK and Ireland (and the rest of the EU) on my Irish passport. Never was an issue. Even presented my Irish passport as proof of residency when applying for my wife's Green Card through DCF in London.

I do remeber reading somewhere that there has been several court cases (I think back in the 70's, and I think Supreme court) that overturned that law saying you will lose your citizenship if you become a national of another country. The site I found it on is http://www.richw.org/dualcit/faq.html#noway, It seemed fairly solid, but if worried you can read the cases it talkes about and research yourself. Here is an exert from it.:

But I thought US law didn't permit one to be a dual citizen -- that if you were (by birth or otherwise), you either had to give up the other citizenship when you came of age, or else you'd lose your US status. And that if you became a citizen of another country, you'd automatically lose your US citizenship. So what's all this talk about dual citizenship?

It indeed used to be the case in the US that you couldn't hold dual citizenship (except in certain cases if you had dual citizenship from birth or childhood, in which case some Supreme Court rulings -- Perkins v. Elg (1939), Mandoli v. Acheson (1952), and Kawakita v. U.S. (1952) -- permitted you to keep both). However, most of the laws forbidding dual citizenship were struck down by the US Supreme Court in two cases: a 1967 decision, Afroyim v. Rusk, as well as a second ruling in 1980, Vance v. Terrazas.

This makes since but as Vito has not ANY right to a Brittish Citizenship except for when he is married to me, I'm am interpreting the information I have read so far as he would be asumed relinqueshing his US citizenship. perhaps I have got this wrong as well? I get that if you are entitled through birth the USA lets you have duel, but am i miss understanding the rules if one does not have rights through birth and only marriage?

[sparkofcreation 0]

No, you enter and leave each country on that country's passport. That's standard practice everywhere that allows dual citizenship. You don't need to use the same passport for the whole trip.

The US changed the law about requiring you to give up your other country's citizenship awhile back ... maybe 10-20 years ago? You still have to say it during the oath, and I think they still send your home country a letter saying "This person swore the oath of US citizenship," but many other countries (including of course the UK) don't really care, and the US doesn't require you to actually go and renounce your foreign citizenship.

For those who acquire the US citizenship first and another country's afterwards, the US Dept. of State do have the *right* to refuse to renew your US passport if you've done anything to jeopardize your US citizenship (including getting citizenship elsewhere), but I believe they only do so if you take a high government job/serve in the military of another country.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

No, you enter and leave each country on that country's passport. That's standard practice everywhere that allows dual citizenship. You don't need to use the same passport for the whole trip.

I'm sorry, but this advice gives the wrong impression and in some cases, is WRONG. If i'm travelling to the UK from Australia, i leave Australia on my UK passport, and I arrive in the UK on my UK, then I LEAVE the UK on my Australian if heading to Australia. Also, what if i transit through another country? Using difft passports can get confusing... For the simple reason of visas... and this is from personal experience. I'll explain...

I have both UK AND Australian passports. I travelled from Australia, to London, to America and then back to Australia

I left Australia on my Australian passport so they registered me leaving (this was WRONG, I should have left on my UK... but because of the VWP i didn't realise)

I arrived in the UK on my UK passport (I also then traveled Europe on my UK passport and back to London again)

I entered the US on my UK passport

I TRIED to leave on my UK passport because it had my I-94 in it (I planned to enter Australia with my Australian)

-- While I was in the US, the VWP conditions changed and you had to have registered online, SO when I attempted to leave the US on my UK passport I was asked if I had a visa for Australia... I was like... umm I'm Australian, I have an Aussie passport, and she said, well you need to leave on that because otherwise we wouldn't let you get on the plane.

The ONLY reason I made my flight is because, while sitting at LAX I heard my name over the loud-speaker... had they not double-checked I'd've missed my flight!!

I arrived in Australia on my Australian passport

Moral of the story, LEAVE whatever country you're in, on the passport that you need for the country you're entering... so, if I went to Europe from Australia I would leave Australia on my UK passport (as well as arrive on my UK), and leave Europe on my Australian (and arrive in Australia on my Australian).

However, like with America, I had to show BOTH passports because I entered on the UK and not the Aussie and my I-94 was in the UK but I needed to leave on Aussie. Moral of THAT story, if it's a transit country, arrive (where possible) on the passport you intend to leave with so the visa info is in the right one . It requires a bit of forward thinking but by taking all passports anyway you've always got the other one just in case

Hope this helps

Edited August 4, 2009 by Vanessa&Tony

[TayRivers 4]

Here is what I was told by CBP at Logan International Airport about what passport to use.

When you check-in for a flight from USA to UK, you use your US Passport. (do not try using your UK passport as you will not have a I-94 or a preclearance certificate, and will not be allowed to board).

When you arrive in the UK and are going through Passport Control, you use your UK Passport (you are entering your own country as a citizen and entery restrictions do not apply)..

When you check-in for your return flight to the USA, you use your US passport (that way you do not require preclearance).

When you go through CBP in the USA you use your US passport. (do not use your UK passport as you will not have a entry visa to the USA).

That is what I have done and I have never had any issues.