The New Jimmy Carter

[zqt3344 21]

Think about it, what drives the cost of insurance rates? MEDICAL fees and charges and care that is charged by Dr and hospitals and passed on to insurance to pay the bill.

there's lots of experts on VJ tonight. excellent!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

THAT is because of the frivolous or over charge by the cardiologist, being passed on to the insurance company, think about it, how do Dr arrive at their rates or fees they charge? Who do they then turn to or pass on the cost to? INsurance company and if Insurance company balks and says hey that is too much or you are not charging what we agreed to earlier then we are not paying it. After all it is a business and not some government give away. You get on the wrong people, it is as much, well more the fault of hospitals, clinics, Dr and their charges and fees that cause our problems not the insurance.

Unfortunate for your father in law, but once again you just supported what I said is driving the cost of insurance. It is the over priced medical treatment and care and medical supplies and salaries and fees and charges passed on to insurance companies from hospitals and Doctors alike. Don't you see it drives the cost of your insurance.

In short its a corrupt business that facilitates corruption at almost every level. Insurance companies deserve their share of bashing - after all, 3 of my relatives fell afoul of those guys - including my father in law, who was almost killed because the insurance company decided his cardiologist appointments were "frivolous".

It doesn't support your argument at all - the insurer made a medical decision to not pay for his cardiologist appointments. The doctor didn't make that decision - the insurer did.

It had nothing to do with the Doctor. The insurer directly interfered in his medical care. Regardless of the cost, they had no business to do that.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Once again, noble stance you take but clearly not economically sound. Look at what truly drives the cost, Insurance companies simply adjust and reprice or raise rates due to what they are charged by Drs, hospitals and the like, and the rates vary from all over the country to regions and well, it is once again what drives the cost up for us all.

In all honesty it is not insurance companies, they only respond to cost drivers in their business model, such as Dr salarys or fees, hospital charges, medical equipment use charges, etc. THE real culprits are the Doctors, hospitals, drug companies, medical equipment companies, etc, they are the ones driving the cost right through the roof, not the insurance companies. So start bashing the ones responsible for the mess for a change.

McCain's health plan is extraordinarily bad and addresses none of the problems of the current system.

That is not true. As AJ pointed out in another thread, McCain's plan addresses the problem of insufficient profits for the insurance industry.

Yup someone's got to keep those CEO's in the lifestyle they're accustomed to

Not quite. It's the private insurance system has created the most red tape of any health care system anywhere in the world. No other health care system wastes about a third of every dollar on red tape. Only the private insurance industry that we allow to rip us off year after year and decade after decade has managed to created a bloated bureaucracy like no other entity. That's what the problem is. Doctors have to have so many admins on staff just to satisfy the insurance red tape. Who do you think pays for that? We'd be so much better off having a universal, single payer system - the proof is available the world over.

Stop the drivel and look at how the administrative expenses for health care break down here as opposed to developed countries that have a universal, single payer system. They all outperform us by leaps and bounds. All of them. The higher fees that doctors charge - despite the doctors and hospitals having to staff more to handle the vast additional red tape - have also a good bit to do with the diminished negotiating power we collectively suffer due to this fractured system we have. The American health care system is the worst I've ever seen. And I've seen a few.

[zqt3344 21]

Thank you for answering me and proving me right, it is a cost driver passed on from hospitals on to insurance companies, the medical industry has created this monster, not the insurance companies.

Once again, noble stance you take but clearly not economically sound. Look at what truly drives the cost, Insurance companies simply adjust and reprice or raise rates due to what they are charged by Drs, hospitals and the like, and the rates vary from all over the country to regions and well, it is once again what drives the cost up for us all.

In all honesty it is not insurance companies, they only respond to cost drivers in their business model, such as Dr salarys or fees, hospital charges, medical equipment use charges, etc. THE real culprits are the Doctors, hospitals, drug companies, medical equipment companies, etc, they are the ones driving the cost right through the roof, not the insurance companies. So start bashing the ones responsible for the mess for a change.

McCain's health plan is extraordinarily bad and addresses none of the problems of the current system.

That is not true. As AJ pointed out in another thread, McCain's plan addresses the problem of insufficient profits for the insurance industry.

Yup someone's got to keep those CEO's in the lifestyle they're accustomed to

Not quite. It's the private insurance system has created the most red tape of any health care system anywhere in the world. No other health care system wastes about a third of every dollar on red tape. Only the private insurance industry that we allow to rip us off year after year and decade after decade has managed to created a bloated bureaucracy like no other entity. That's what the problem is. Doctors have to have so many admins on staff just to satisfy the insurance red tape. Who do you think pays for that? We'd be so much better off having a universal, single payer system - the proof is available the world over.

Stop the drivel and look at how the administrative expenses for health care break down here as opposed to developed countries that have a universal, single payer system. They all outperform us by leaps and bounds. All of them. The higher fees that doctors charge - despite the doctors and hospitals having to staff more to handle the vast additional red tape - have also a good bit to do with the diminished negotiating power we collectively suffer due to this fractured system we have. The American health care system is the worst I've ever seen. And I've seen a few.

[Cassie 8]

Thank you for answering me and proving me right, it is a cost driver passed on from hospitals on to insurance companies, the medical industry has created this monster, not the insurance companies.

uh huh. What drives insurance rates? Shareholders, that's who.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Thank you for answering me and proving me right, it is a cost driver passed on from hospitals on to insurance companies, the medical industry has created this monster, not the insurance companies.

Once again, noble stance you take but clearly not economically sound. Look at what truly drives the cost, Insurance companies simply adjust and reprice or raise rates due to what they are charged by Drs, hospitals and the like, and the rates vary from all over the country to regions and well, it is once again what drives the cost up for us all.

In all honesty it is not insurance companies, they only respond to cost drivers in their business model, such as Dr salarys or fees, hospital charges, medical equipment use charges, etc. THE real culprits are the Doctors, hospitals, drug companies, medical equipment companies, etc, they are the ones driving the cost right through the roof, not the insurance companies. So start bashing the ones responsible for the mess for a change.

McCain's health plan is extraordinarily bad and addresses none of the problems of the current system.

That is not true. As AJ pointed out in another thread, McCain's plan addresses the problem of insufficient profits for the insurance industry.

Yup someone's got to keep those CEO's in the lifestyle they're accustomed to

Not quite. It's the private insurance system has created the most red tape of any health care system anywhere in the world. No other health care system wastes about a third of every dollar on red tape. Only the private insurance industry that we allow to rip us off year after year and decade after decade has managed to created a bloated bureaucracy like no other entity. That's what the problem is. Doctors have to have so many admins on staff just to satisfy the insurance red tape. Who do you think pays for that? We'd be so much better off having a universal, single payer system - the proof is available the world over.

Stop the drivel and look at how the administrative expenses for health care break down here as opposed to developed countries that have a universal, single payer system. They all outperform us by leaps and bounds. All of them. The higher fees that doctors charge - despite the doctors and hospitals having to staff more to handle the vast additional red tape - have also a good bit to do with the diminished negotiating power we collectively suffer due to this fractured system we have. The American health care system is the worst I've ever seen. And I've seen a few.

Actually, I said no such thing. Try to read and comprehend.

[zqt3344 21]

Yes you did, you stated what one of the cost drivers was, think about it.

Thank you for answering me and proving me right, it is a cost driver passed on from hospitals on to insurance companies, the medical industry has created this monster, not the insurance companies.

Once again, noble stance you take but clearly not economically sound. Look at what truly drives the cost, Insurance companies simply adjust and reprice or raise rates due to what they are charged by Drs, hospitals and the like, and the rates vary from all over the country to regions and well, it is once again what drives the cost up for us all.

In all honesty it is not insurance companies, they only respond to cost drivers in their business model, such as Dr salarys or fees, hospital charges, medical equipment use charges, etc. THE real culprits are the Doctors, hospitals, drug companies, medical equipment companies, etc, they are the ones driving the cost right through the roof, not the insurance companies. So start bashing the ones responsible for the mess for a change.

McCain's health plan is extraordinarily bad and addresses none of the problems of the current system.

That is not true. As AJ pointed out in another thread, McCain's plan addresses the problem of insufficient profits for the insurance industry.

Yup someone's got to keep those CEO's in the lifestyle they're accustomed to

Not quite. It's the private insurance system has created the most red tape of any health care system anywhere in the world. No other health care system wastes about a third of every dollar on red tape. Only the private insurance industry that we allow to rip us off year after year and decade after decade has managed to created a bloated bureaucracy like no other entity. That's what the problem is. Doctors have to have so many admins on staff just to satisfy the insurance red tape. Who do you think pays for that? We'd be so much better off having a universal, single payer system - the proof is available the world over.

Stop the drivel and look at how the administrative expenses for health care break down here as opposed to developed countries that have a universal, single payer system. They all outperform us by leaps and bounds. All of them. The higher fees that doctors charge - despite the doctors and hospitals having to staff more to handle the vast additional red tape - have also a good bit to do with the diminished negotiating power we collectively suffer due to this fractured system we have. The American health care system is the worst I've ever seen. And I've seen a few.

Actually, I said no such thing. Try to read and comprehend.

[SMOKE 1,426]

Thank you for answering me and proving me right, it is a cost driver passed on from hospitals on to insurance companies, the medical industry has created this monster, not the insurance companies.

uh huh. What drives insurance rates? Shareholders, that's who.

zgt is dead money on this one. the medical industry has run wild w/ their greed. no gov't control over what they can charge for their sevices & products is what has driven up the cost of health insurance not the insurance companies.

how much has your auto insurance risen in the last 5 years? not much.

how much has your home insurance risen in the last 5 years? not much.

".......keep filling them in................................................? not much.

[zqt3344 21]

I rest my case, I have tried to honestly and patiently explain what is wrong with our healthcare system. Great point and comparison SMOKE on the other insurance rates, the cost drivers in those industries have remained flat and controlled with prices and charges and competition unlike medical care.

Thank you for answering me and proving me right, it is a cost driver passed on from hospitals on to insurance companies, the medical industry has created this monster, not the insurance companies.

uh huh. What drives insurance rates? Shareholders, that's who.

zgt is dead money on this one. the medical industry has run wild w/ their greed. no gov't control over what they can charge for their sevices & products is what has driven up the cost of health insurance not the insurance companies.

how much has your auto insurance risen in the last 5 years? not much.

how much has your home insurance risen in the last 5 years? not much.

".......keep filling them in................................................? not much.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Resting your case without any exhibits? Interesting...

Here's an Exhibit A for you to peruse at your leisure. Or not.

In 1999, health administration costs totaled at least $294.3 billion in the United States,

or $1,059 per capita, as compared with $307 per capita in Canada. After exclusions, administration

accounted for 31.0 percent of health care expenditures in the United States

and 16.7 percent of health care expenditures in Canada. Canada’s national health insurance

program had overhead of 1.3 percent; the overhead among Canada’s private insurers

was higher than that in the United States (13.2 percent vs. 11.7 percent). Providers’

administrative costs were far lower in Canada.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Yes you did, you stated what one of the cost drivers was, think about it.

Thank you for answering me and proving me right, it is a cost driver passed on from hospitals on to insurance companies, the medical industry has created this monster, not the insurance companies.

Once again, noble stance you take but clearly not economically sound. Look at what truly drives the cost, Insurance companies simply adjust and reprice or raise rates due to what they are charged by Drs, hospitals and the like, and the rates vary from all over the country to regions and well, it is once again what drives the cost up for us all.

In all honesty it is not insurance companies, they only respond to cost drivers in their business model, such as Dr salarys or fees, hospital charges, medical equipment use charges, etc. THE real culprits are the Doctors, hospitals, drug companies, medical equipment companies, etc, they are the ones driving the cost right through the roof, not the insurance companies. So start bashing the ones responsible for the mess for a change.

McCain's health plan is extraordinarily bad and addresses none of the problems of the current system.

That is not true. As AJ pointed out in another thread, McCain's plan addresses the problem of insufficient profits for the insurance industry.

Yup someone's got to keep those CEO's in the lifestyle they're accustomed to

Not quite. It's the private insurance system has created the most red tape of any health care system anywhere in the world. No other health care system wastes about a third of every dollar on red tape. Only the private insurance industry that we allow to rip us off year after year and decade after decade has managed to created a bloated bureaucracy like no other entity. That's what the problem is. Doctors have to have so many admins on staff just to satisfy the insurance red tape. Who do you think pays for that? We'd be so much better off having a universal, single payer system - the proof is available the world over.

Stop the drivel and look at how the administrative expenses for health care break down here as opposed to developed countries that have a universal, single payer system. They all outperform us by leaps and bounds. All of them. The higher fees that doctors charge - despite the doctors and hospitals having to staff more to handle the vast additional red tape - have also a good bit to do with the diminished negotiating power we collectively suffer due to this fractured system we have. The American health care system is the worst I've ever seen. And I've seen a few.

Actually, I said no such thing. Try to read and comprehend.

Which part of what I said precisely do you feel supports your point? Be specific. If you can.

[zqt3344 21]

Good post, thanks for info will look at it later. But I am serious about what is driving cost of health insurance in USA, and it exists.

Resting your case without any exhibits? Interesting...

Here's an Exhibit A for you to peruse at your leisure. Or not.

In 1999, health administration costs totaled at least $294.3 billion in the United States,

or $1,059 per capita, as compared with $307 per capita in Canada. After exclusions, administration

accounted for 31.0 percent of health care expenditures in the United States

and 16.7 percent of health care expenditures in Canada. Canada’s national health insurance

program had overhead of 1.3 percent; the overhead among Canada’s private insurers

was higher than that in the United States (13.2 percent vs. 11.7 percent). Providers’

administrative costs were far lower in Canada.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Good post, thanks for info will look at it later. But I am serious about what is driving cost of health insurance in USA, and it exists.

Resting your case without any exhibits? Interesting...

Here's an Exhibit A for you to peruse at your leisure. Or not.

In 1999, health administration costs totaled at least $294.3 billion in the United States,

or $1,059 per capita, as compared with $307 per capita in Canada. After exclusions, administration

accounted for 31.0 percent of health care expenditures in the United States

and 16.7 percent of health care expenditures in Canada. Canada’s national health insurance

program had overhead of 1.3 percent; the overhead among Canada’s private insurers

was higher than that in the United States (13.2 percent vs. 11.7 percent). Providers’

administrative costs were far lower in Canada.

Whether you're serious about it or not - this is clear proof of Dog's point that overheads are significantly higher under the US health system. Specifically crippling administration costs - imposed by the insurance industry.

[zqt3344 21]

I was serious, why would I not be. Good post. Also dog is partially right, and taking out this administrative overhead you mention is not going to solve the overall cost driver to this health mess here. There are many more cost drivers at play, that I mentioned before.

Good post, thanks for info will look at it later. But I am serious about what is driving cost of health insurance in USA, and it exists.

Resting your case without any exhibits? Interesting...

Here's an Exhibit A for you to peruse at your leisure. Or not.

In 1999, health administration costs totaled at least $294.3 billion in the United States,

or $1,059 per capita, as compared with $307 per capita in Canada. After exclusions, administration

accounted for 31.0 percent of health care expenditures in the United States

and 16.7 percent of health care expenditures in Canada. Canada’s national health insurance

program had overhead of 1.3 percent; the overhead among Canada’s private insurers

was higher than that in the United States (13.2 percent vs. 11.7 percent). Providers’

administrative costs were far lower in Canada.

Whether you're serious about it or not - this is clear proof of Dog's point that overheads are significantly higher under the US health system. Specifically crippling administration costs - imposed by the insurance industry.

[Cassie 8]

Thank you for answering me and proving me right, it is a cost driver passed on from hospitals on to insurance companies, the medical industry has created this monster, not the insurance companies.

uh huh. What drives insurance rates? Shareholders, that's who.

zgt is dead money on this one. the medical industry has run wild w/ their greed. no gov't control over what they can charge for their sevices & products is what has driven up the cost of health insurance not the insurance companies.

how much has your auto insurance risen in the last 5 years? not much.

how much has your home insurance risen in the last 5 years? not much.

".......keep filling them in................................................? not much.

uh huh. So you are trying to tell me that while everyone else has got their fingers in the pot and taking advantage of the situation, the insurance companies aren't, and are forced into raising their prices? I call bullcrap. You can't tell me it's all a purely reflex reaction.

So who benefits when the insurance companies deny coverage / treatments / you name it because it's "too expensive / not necessary / blahblahblah"? It's not the "greedy" doctors / pharmaceutical companies / you name it, 'cause they aren't getting money.

And it sure as heck ain't the regular joe blow on the street.