Should Parents Be Forced to Vaccinate Their Children?

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George Will was on Colbert last night and described the difference between conservative and liberal as the difference between freedom and equality. Conservatives want freedom and are willing to accept the inequality that results from it; liberals want equality of outcome for all and are willing to infringe on freedoms to achieve it.

I like the use of the semi-colon, Master T. You've gone up in my estimation.

Goddamnit, take me seriously!!!

This is super cereal, you guys!

Edited June 4, 2008 by VJ Troll

[Aymerlu 3]

As a mother of an autistic son I have mixed feelings. Do I think the shots may have caused my sons autism? Yes. Why do I say this? lthough my son was 6 weeks early, he was healthy and outgoing...... I had a perfectly normal son till about 1 month after a series of his shots. From a medical standpoint, I can honestly say that the number of children I see with symptoms under that autism umbrella are huge and it seems to be in a certain age group. I also have many of my friends that are teachers and nurses that will say the same thing. May say that we are just more aware of issues on the autistic spectrum, but I'm not sure. And seriously, will the FDA ever say "hey yeah....those vaccines may cause autism?" Heck no! I so feel kids need to be vaccinated. Do I think they need 4-5 shots at their first shot visit? No. Think of a babies immune system. It's nothing like an adults and it's getting bombarded with virues to fight off with these immunizations. I did things very differently with my daughter and I've been seeing an increase in what I did. My daughter had all her shots spaced out and never had all her injections on one visit. She's done fine. Another thing that bothers me is the fact that your child has to get a Hep B vaccine series. Is this really necessary? I'm pretty sure my infants won't be having sex or using I.V drugs.

[HAL 9000 96]

As a mother of an autistic son I have mixed feelings. Do I think the shots may have caused my sons autism? Yes. Why do I say this? lthough my son was 6 weeks early, he was healthy and outgoing...... I had a perfectly normal son till about 1 month after a series of his shots. From a medical standpoint, I can honestly say that the number of children I see with symptoms under that autism umbrella are huge and it seems to be in a certain age group. I also have many of my friends that are teachers and nurses that will say the same thing. May say that we are just more aware of issues on the autistic spectrum, but I'm not sure. And seriously, will the FDA ever say "hey yeah....those vaccines may cause autism?" Heck no! I so feel kids need to be vaccinated. Do I think they need 4-5 shots at their first shot visit? No. Think of a babies immune system. It's nothing like an adults and it's getting bombarded with virues to fight off with these immunizations. I did things very differently with my daughter and I've been seeing an increase in what I did. My daughter had all her shots spaced out and never had all her injections on one visit. She's done fine. Another thing that bothers me is the fact that your child has to get a Hep B vaccine series. Is this really necessary? I'm pretty sure my infants won't be having sex or using I.V drugs.

Hats off to you...

[keltic 1]

to clarify for an earlier post, immunizations ARE for communicable diseases...

CDC Statement on Autism and Thimerosal

As the country's leading public health agency, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) is committed to protecting the health of all Americans—including infants, children, and adolescents. CDC shares with parents and many others great concern about the number of children with autism spectrum disorders (ASD). We are committed to understanding what causes autism, how it can be prevented, and how it can be recognized and treated as early as possible.

Recent estimates from CDC's Autism and Developmental Disabilities Monitoring network found that about 1 in 150 children have an ASD. This estimate is higher than estimates from the early 1990s. Some people believe increased exposure to thimerosal (from the addition of important new vaccines recommended for children) explains the higher prevalence in recent years. However, evidence from several studies examining trends in vaccine use and changes in autism frequency does not support such an association. Furthermore, a scientific review* by the Institute of Medicine (IOM) concluded that "the evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism." CDC supports the IOM conclusion.

CDC recognizes that autism is an urgent health concern and supports comprehensive research as our best hope for understanding the causes of autism and other developmental disorders. Through collaborations with partners in government, research centers, and the public, CDC is focusing on three areas—

Understanding the frequency and trends of autism spectrum disorders.

Advancing research in the search for causes and effective treatments.

Improving early detection and diagnosis so affected children are treated as soon as possible.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal.htm

and from a non-government site:

This eighth and final report of the Immunization Safety Review Committee examines the hypothesis that vaccines, specifically the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine and thimerosal-containing vaccines, are causally associated with autism. The committee reviewed the extant published and unpublished epidemiological studies regarding causality and studies of potential biologic mechanisms by which these immunizations might cause autism.

The committee concludes that the body of epidemiological evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between the MMR vaccine and autism. The committee also concludes that the body of epidemiological evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism. The committee further finds that potential biological mechanisms for vaccine-induced autism that have been generated to date are theoretical only.

The committee does not recommend a policy review of the current schedule and recommendations for the administration of either the MMR vaccine or thimerosal-containing vaccines. The committee recommends a public health response that fully supports an array of vaccine safety activities.

In addition, the committee recommends that available funding for autism research be channeled to the most promising areas. The committee makes additional recommendations regarding surveillance and epidemiological research, clinical studies, and communication related to these vaccine safety concerns.

http://www.iom.edu/CMS/3793/4705/20155.aspx

in other words, stop wasting money and time on something that has been discredited and put those efforts and finances towards finding the real answers...

the mixed blessing of ppl holding on so tightly to being able to refuse immunizations is that most of them have no idea what it is like to see someone with those diseases... theyve never had to see it... because we have had the vaccines to help us... but, ironically, if enough ppl choose to not have their kids vaccinated, those diseases will resurge... and then they will probably want to sue the medical community and government for not protecting their children...

the way i see it, if parents want their children to attend public schools (or any gathering of other ppls children), then they have a responsibility to ensure that their children dont hurt the others... whether it is something that is preventable by an immunization or not... immunizations are just one part of it...

[keltic 1]

one of the frustrating things with autism, is that it isnt diagnosed until a baby is old enough to show developmental and neurological delays... that wont happen right at birth (unless it is a PROFOUND neurological issue much more serious, like an intraventricular hemmorhage)... so, we can speculate at the different things that happen during that time before we can notice problems... but it is only speculation... and the theory of thimerosol having some relation has been taken seriously and studied... and its used is reduced...

Since 2001, with the exception of some influenza (flu) vaccines, thimerosal is not used as a preservative in routinely recommended childhood vaccines.

we need to keep looking... just, elsewhere

[keltic 1]

my next-door neighbor has twins who are 8 yrs old... they both had the same schedule of vaccines... her little boy is autistic... her little girl is not... i would bet their immunizations were from the same lot... what was different for the little boy? if it were the immunization, wouldnt it have affected the little girl too?

and in regards to multiple vaccinations at the same time:

Myth:Giving a child multiple vaccinations for different diseases at the same time increases the risk of harmful side effects and can overload the immune system.

Children are exposed to many foreign antigens every day. Eating food introduces new bacteria into the body, and numerous bacteria live in the mouth and nose, exposing the immune system to still more antigens. An upper respiratory viral infection exposes a child to 4 - 10 antigens, and a case of "strep throat" to 25 - 50. According to Adverse Events Associated with Childhood Vaccines, a 1994 report from the Institute of Medicine, "In the face of these normal events, it seems unlikely that the number of separate antigens contained in childhood vaccines . . . would represent an appreciable added burden on the immune system that would be immunosuppressive." And, indeed, available scientific data show that simultaneous vaccination with multiple vaccines has no adverse effect on the normal childhood immune system.

A number of studies have been conducted to examine the effects of giving various combinations of vaccines simultaneously. In fact, neither the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) nor the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) would recommend the simultaneous administration of any vaccines until such studies showed the combinations to be both safe and effective. These studies have shown that the recommended vaccines are as effective in combination as they are individually, and that such combinations carry no greater risk for adverse side effects. Consequently, both the ACIP and AAP recommend simultaneous administration of all routine childhood vaccines when appropriate.

There are two practical factors in favor of giving a child several vaccinations during the same visit. First, we want to immunize children as early as possible to give them protection during the vulnerable early months of their lives. Second, giving several vaccinations at the same time will mean fewer office visits for vaccinations, which saves parents both time and money and may be less traumatic for the child.

[HAL 9000 96]

one of the frustrating things with autism, is that it isnt diagnosed until a baby is old enough to show developmental and neurological delays... that wont happen right at birth (unless it is a PROFOUND neurological issue much more serious, like an intraventricular hemmorhage)... so, we can speculate at the different things that happen during that time before we can notice problems... but it is only speculation... and the theory of thimerosol having some relation has been taken seriously and studied... and its used is reduced...

Since 2001, with the exception of some influenza (flu) vaccines, thimerosal is not used as a preservative in routinely recommended childhood vaccines.

we need to keep looking... just, elsewhere

Yes.

my next-door neighbor has twins who are 8 yrs old... they both had the same schedule of vaccines... her little boy is autistic... her little girl is not... i would bet their immunizations were from the same lot... what was different for the little boy? if it were the immunization, wouldnt it have affected the little girl too?

and in regards to multiple vaccinations at the same time:

Myth:Giving a child multiple vaccinations for different diseases at the same time increases the risk of harmful side effects and can overload the immune system.

Children are exposed to many foreign antigens every day. Eating food introduces new bacteria into the body, and numerous bacteria live in the mouth and nose, exposing the immune system to still more antigens. An upper respiratory viral infection exposes a child to 4 - 10 antigens, and a case of "strep throat" to 25 - 50. According to Adverse Events Associated with Childhood Vaccines, a 1994 report from the Institute of Medicine, "In the face of these normal events, it seems unlikely that the number of separate antigens contained in childhood vaccines . . . would represent an appreciable added burden on the immune system that would be immunosuppressive." And, indeed, available scientific data show that simultaneous vaccination with multiple vaccines has no adverse effect on the normal childhood immune system.

A number of studies have been conducted to examine the effects of giving various combinations of vaccines simultaneously. In fact, neither the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) nor the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) would recommend the simultaneous administration of any vaccines until such studies showed the combinations to be both safe and effective. These studies have shown that the recommended vaccines are as effective in combination as they are individually, and that such combinations carry no greater risk for adverse side effects. Consequently, both the ACIP and AAP recommend simultaneous administration of all routine childhood vaccines when appropriate.

There are two practical factors in favor of giving a child several vaccinations during the same visit. First, we want to immunize children as early as possible to give them protection during the vulnerable early months of their lives. Second, giving several vaccinations at the same time will mean fewer office visits for vaccinations, which saves parents both time and money and may be less traumatic for the child.

Not necessarily... even though the children are sibs, remember that susceptibility is different sometimes due to very fine genetic differences that may not obey Mendelian inheritance patterns. Just being devil's advocate.

[Marilyn. 340]

I think the point we are trying to make is that every child's reaction to the vaccinations are different.. we are not saying there is anything wrong with the vaccinations themselves...

my next-door neighbor has twins who are 8 yrs old... they both had the same schedule of vaccines... her little boy is autistic... her little girl is not... i would bet their immunizations were from the same lot... what was different for the little boy? if it were the immunization, wouldnt it have affected the little girl too?

and in regards to multiple vaccinations at the same time:

Myth:Giving a child multiple vaccinations for different diseases at the same time increases the risk of harmful side effects and can overload the immune system.

Children are exposed to many foreign antigens every day. Eating food introduces new bacteria into the body, and numerous bacteria live in the mouth and nose, exposing the immune system to still more antigens. An upper respiratory viral infection exposes a child to 4 - 10 antigens, and a case of "strep throat" to 25 - 50. According to Adverse Events Associated with Childhood Vaccines, a 1994 report from the Institute of Medicine, "In the face of these normal events, it seems unlikely that the number of separate antigens contained in childhood vaccines . . . would represent an appreciable added burden on the immune system that would be immunosuppressive." And, indeed, available scientific data show that simultaneous vaccination with multiple vaccines has no adverse effect on the normal childhood immune system.

A number of studies have been conducted to examine the effects of giving various combinations of vaccines simultaneously. In fact, neither the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) nor the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) would recommend the simultaneous administration of any vaccines until such studies showed the combinations to be both safe and effective. These studies have shown that the recommended vaccines are as effective in combination as they are individually, and that such combinations carry no greater risk for adverse side effects. Consequently, both the ACIP and AAP recommend simultaneous administration of all routine childhood vaccines when appropriate.

There are two practical factors in favor of giving a child several vaccinations during the same visit. First, we want to immunize children as early as possible to give them protection during the vulnerable early months of their lives. Second, giving several vaccinations at the same time will mean fewer office visits for vaccinations, which saves parents both time and money and may be less traumatic for the child.

[Aymerlu 3]

one of the frustrating things with autism, is that it isnt diagnosed until a baby is old enough to show developmental and neurological delays... that wont happen right at birth (unless it is a PROFOUND neurological issue much more serious, like an intraventricular hemmorhage)... so, we can speculate at the different things that happen during that time before we can notice problems... but it is only speculation... and the theory of thimerosol having some relation has been taken seriously and studied... and its used is reduced...

Since 2001, with the exception of some influenza (flu) vaccines, thimerosal is not used as a preservative in routinely recommended childhood vaccines.

we need to keep looking... just, elsewhere

Yes.

my next-door neighbor has twins who are 8 yrs old... they both had the same schedule of vaccines... her little boy is autistic... her little girl is not... i would bet their immunizations were from the same lot... what was different for the little boy? if it were the immunization, wouldnt it have affected the little girl too?

and in regards to multiple vaccinations at the same time:

Myth:Giving a child multiple vaccinations for different diseases at the same time increases the risk of harmful side effects and can overload the immune system.

Children are exposed to many foreign antigens every day. Eating food introduces new bacteria into the body, and numerous bacteria live in the mouth and nose, exposing the immune system to still more antigens. An upper respiratory viral infection exposes a child to 4 - 10 antigens, and a case of "strep throat" to 25 - 50. According to Adverse Events Associated with Childhood Vaccines, a 1994 report from the Institute of Medicine, "In the face of these normal events, it seems unlikely that the number of separate antigens contained in childhood vaccines . . . would represent an appreciable added burden on the immune system that would be immunosuppressive." And, indeed, available scientific data show that simultaneous vaccination with multiple vaccines has no adverse effect on the normal childhood immune system.

A number of studies have been conducted to examine the effects of giving various combinations of vaccines simultaneously. In fact, neither the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) nor the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) would recommend the simultaneous administration of any vaccines until such studies showed the combinations to be both safe and effective. These studies have shown that the recommended vaccines are as effective in combination as they are individually, and that such combinations carry no greater risk for adverse side effects. Consequently, both the ACIP and AAP recommend simultaneous administration of all routine childhood vaccines when appropriate.

There are two practical factors in favor of giving a child several vaccinations during the same visit. First, we want to immunize children as early as possible to give them protection during the vulnerable early months of their lives. Second, giving several vaccinations at the same time will mean fewer office visits for vaccinations, which saves parents both time and money and may be less traumatic for the child.

Not necessarily... even though the children are sibs, remember that susceptibility is different sometimes due to very fine genetic differences that may not obey Mendelian inheritance patterns. Just being devil's advocate.

My son was born in 1994, a premie, but was given hep B in the hospital and was given immunizations on time, even though his gestational age was always 6 weeks behind. Maybe he has autism because his body wasn't ready for the vaccines. And there is a HUGE rise in the numbers of children with APD in kids around his age. Just out of curiosity....I just looked at our flu vaccines here in the clinic and they ALL have thimerasol.

When you have child with autism and you know that child was fine one day and one day he's just staring at the walls......you look and grasp for anything that will help you understand why your child is like this. No one will or can understand this untill they are faced with it themselves.

[keltic 1]

I think the point we are trying to make is that every child's reaction to the vaccinations are different.. we are not saying there is anything wrong with the vaccinations themselves...

you might not... but, there are many ppl who DO think that there is something wrong with the vaccinations themselves... there is a lot of misinformation out there... i feel that it is important to clarify...

there are parents who still think that thimerosal is in every vaccine

[Sinergy 3]

one of the frustrating things with autism, is that it isnt diagnosed until a baby is old enough to show developmental and neurological delays... that wont happen right at birth (unless it is a PROFOUND neurological issue much more serious, like an intraventricular hemmorhage)... so, we can speculate at the different things that happen during that time before we can notice problems... but it is only speculation... and the theory of thimerosol having some relation has been taken seriously and studied... and its used is reduced...

Since 2001, with the exception of some influenza (flu) vaccines, thimerosal is not used as a preservative in routinely recommended childhood vaccines.

we need to keep looking... just, elsewhere

Yes.

my next-door neighbor has twins who are 8 yrs old... they both had the same schedule of vaccines... her little boy is autistic... her little girl is not... i would bet their immunizations were from the same lot... what was different for the little boy? if it were the immunization, wouldnt it have affected the little girl too?

and in regards to multiple vaccinations at the same time:

Myth:Giving a child multiple vaccinations for different diseases at the same time increases the risk of harmful side effects and can overload the immune system.

Children are exposed to many foreign antigens every day. Eating food introduces new bacteria into the body, and numerous bacteria live in the mouth and nose, exposing the immune system to still more antigens. An upper respiratory viral infection exposes a child to 4 - 10 antigens, and a case of "strep throat" to 25 - 50. According to Adverse Events Associated with Childhood Vaccines, a 1994 report from the Institute of Medicine, "In the face of these normal events, it seems unlikely that the number of separate antigens contained in childhood vaccines . . . would represent an appreciable added burden on the immune system that would be immunosuppressive." And, indeed, available scientific data show that simultaneous vaccination with multiple vaccines has no adverse effect on the normal childhood immune system.

A number of studies have been conducted to examine the effects of giving various combinations of vaccines simultaneously. In fact, neither the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) nor the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) would recommend the simultaneous administration of any vaccines until such studies showed the combinations to be both safe and effective. These studies have shown that the recommended vaccines are as effective in combination as they are individually, and that such combinations carry no greater risk for adverse side effects. Consequently, both the ACIP and AAP recommend simultaneous administration of all routine childhood vaccines when appropriate.

There are two practical factors in favor of giving a child several vaccinations during the same visit. First, we want to immunize children as early as possible to give them protection during the vulnerable early months of their lives. Second, giving several vaccinations at the same time will mean fewer office visits for vaccinations, which saves parents both time and money and may be less traumatic for the child.

Not necessarily... even though the children are sibs, remember that susceptibility is different sometimes due to very fine genetic differences that may not obey Mendelian inheritance patterns. Just being devil's advocate.

My son was born in 1994, a premie, but was given hep B in the hospital and was given immunizations on time, even though his gestational age was always 6 weeks behind. Maybe he has autism because his body wasn't ready for the vaccines. And there is a HUGE rise in the numbers of children with APD in kids around his age. Just out of curiosity....I just looked at our flu vaccines here in the clinic and they ALL have thimerasol.

When you have child with autism and you know that child was fine one day and one day he's just staring at the walls......you look and grasp for anything that will help you understand why your child is like this. No one will or can understand this untill they are faced with it themselves.

I completely agree with you!

[keltic 1]

My son was born in 1994, a premie, but was given hep B in the hospital and was given immunizations on time, even though his gestational age was always 6 weeks behind. Maybe he has autism because his body wasn't ready for the vaccines. And there is a HUGE rise in the numbers of children with APD in kids around his age. Just out of curiosity....I just looked at our flu vaccines here in the clinic and they ALL have thimerasol.

When you have child with autism and you know that child was fine one day and one day he's just staring at the walls......you look and grasp for anything that will help you understand why your child is like this. No one will or can understand this untill they are faced with it themselves.

my posts are not intended to be an attack on you... and from this post, i think you must feel as if it was... i wasnt a nurse in 1994... i cant speak for what happened then... i can say that now, we have weight considerations as well for premature infants...

i know that it is incredibly difficult to deal with this... one of my closest friends (i consider her my sister) has a son who is turning 10 next month... he was also premature and is autistic... although it is not in my own home, i do see their struggles and their triumphs...

all that i am trying to say, is that (a)with studies done that show no conclusive connection, and (b)reduction and attempts at removal completely, that we should be looking forward to other options... and not discount the benefits of the vaccines that we have

Edited June 4, 2008 by keltic

[HAL 9000 96]

My son was born in 1994, a premie, but was given hep B in the hospital and was given immunizations on time, even though his gestational age was always 6 weeks behind. Maybe he has autism because his body wasn't ready for the vaccines. And there is a HUGE rise in the numbers of children with APD in kids around his age. Just out of curiosity....I just looked at our flu vaccines here in the clinic and they ALL have thimerasol.

When you have child with autism and you know that child was fine one day and one day he's just staring at the walls......you look and grasp for anything that will help you understand why your child is like this. No one will or can understand this untill they are faced with it themselves.

my posts are not intended to be an attack on you... and from this post, i think you must feel as if it was... i wasnt a nurse in 1994... i cant speak for what happened then... i can say that now, we have weight considerations as well for premature infants...

i know that it is incredibly difficult to deal with this... one of my closest friends (i consider her my sister) has a son who is turning 10 next month... he was also premature and is autistic... although it is not in my own home, i do see their struggles and their triumphs...

all that i am trying to say, is that (a)with studies done that show no conclusive connection, and (b)reduction and attempts at removal completely, that we should be looking forward to other options... and not discount the benefits of the vaccines that we have

Good points. Again, my hats off to parents with autistic kids.

[Bassi and Zainab 1]

I don't think vaccinations should be "required" of parents. If the government is going to "require" vaccinations, then they will also have to take responsibility for the population of children that the vaccinations harm. I chose to vaccinate my daughter but literally fought and walked out of a doctors office because he wanted to give my three month old six vaccinations all at once. What are the chances of someone catching measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox, hepatitis all at once? Parents should be more educated and exercise their right to make choices to keep their children healthy and safe. I wouldn't allow my daughter to have more than two vaccinations at a time, then if she got sick, we knew what she was sick from. My pediatrician worked the plan out and she's on schedule and healthy and safe. If someone tried to force me to do differently and I felt it would harm my child, I'd have to reverse this visa process. I'd be expatriating.

I agree that more research should be done to make the vaccinations safer for children. Where should the money come from? Where it comes from now, us! Just redirect it to what we need, and not the nonsense the drug companies want to make money on. We all pay for those vaccinations. Nothing is free in the US.

[HAL 9000 96]

I don't think vaccinations should be "required" of parents. If the government is going to "require" vaccinations, then they will also have to take responsibility for the population of children that the vaccinations harm. I chose to vaccinate my daughter but literally fought and walked out of a doctors office because he wanted to give my three month old six vaccinations all at once. What are the chances of someone catching measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox, hepatitis all at once? Parents should be more educated and exercise their right to make choices to keep their children healthy and safe. I wouldn't allow my daughter to have more than two vaccinations at a time, then if she got sick, we knew what she was sick from. My pediatrician worked the plan out and she's on schedule and healthy and safe. If someone tried to force me to do differently and I felt it would harm my child, I'd have to reverse this visa process. I'd be expatriating.

I agree that more research should be done to make the vaccinations safer for children. Where should the money come from? Where it comes from now, us! Just redirect it to what we need, and not the nonsense the drug companies want to make money on. We all pay for those vaccinations. Nothing is free in the US.

Not a bad plan.