Don't look now, but the U.S.-backed government and army may be winning the war.

[GaryC 7]

It is -- of course -- too early to celebrate;

Indeed.

When Mr. Obama floated his strategy for Iraq last year, the United States appeared doomed to defeat. Now he needs a plan for success.

Indeed.

Edited June 3, 2008 by GaryC

[jundp 191]

I'm not being a jerk. I really do want to know what people mean when they say "winning" or "losing" this war.

What are the deciding factors in this matter to those who consider it to be a war won or lost?

Is it autonomy for Iraq and freedom from the oppression they've experienced or is it something else?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I would say that creaming ourselves over what are essentially short-term gains is a bit premature (I believe the General has himself said something similar about "fragile and reversible gains") . If the security gains become sustainable there will surely be cause for celebration.

[GaryC 7]

I'm not being a jerk. I really do want to know what people mean when they say "winning" or "losing" this war.

What are the deciding factors in this matter to those who consider it to be a war won or lost?

Is it autonomy for Iraq and freedom from the oppression they've experienced or is it something else?

Winning is defined as being able to pull our troops out of daily combat and have the Iraq army capable of dealing with any threat internal or external. Also, to have a stable government able to keep the country together and to support itself.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Hey, I thought they were in the middle of a civil war! Whats -up with that, Harry Reid (D) and Nancy Pelosi (D) Barack Obama (D)

[GaryC 7]

I would say that creaming ourselves over what are essentially short-term gains is a bit premature (I believe the General has himself said something similar about "fragile and reversible gains") . If the security gains become sustainable there will surely be cause for celebration.

Personal request 6. Can you put your videos on top of each other? The excessive width forces me to scroll left to right to read any page you post on. Thanks.

[mawilson 2,133]

Will someone explain to me what is meant by "winning" or "losing" the war in Iraq?

Losing = Declaring the wogs unfit for civilization and going home. Letting Iraq disintegrate

into warring chaos. Withdrawing our troops, as power struggles rage and rival militia

groups continue to slaughter each other for generations, inciting further violence and bloodshed.

Winning = Defeating and disarming vigilante militias, forming a democratic, peaceful Iraq,

capable of taking care of its own defense, law, and order.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

It is -- of course -- too early to celebrate;

Indeed.

When Mr. Obama floated his strategy for Iraq last year, the United States appeared doomed to defeat. Now he needs a plan for success.

Indeed.

I don't disagree. If success is to be had, the next President has an obligation to make srue that happens. I believe that Obama never had anything but the best possible outcome in mind. We owe that to Iraq and to the victims - on both sides - of this illegal attack.

Edited June 3, 2008 by Mr. Big Dog

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I would say that creaming ourselves over what are essentially short-term gains is a bit premature (I believe the General has himself said something similar about "fragile and reversible gains") . If the security gains become sustainable there will surely be cause for celebration.

Personal request 6. Can you put your videos on top of each other? The excessive width forces me to scroll left to right to read any page you post on. Thanks.

You know - someone else asked me a while back if I could put them side by side because they didn't like having to scroll down. I changed it the other day because I added that ####### underneath them. I guess I can't keep everybody happy.

You can always turn off the Siggies. I find them distracting personally.

[dalegg 143]

I'm not being a jerk. I really do want to know what people mean when they say "winning" or "losing" this war.

What are the deciding factors in this matter to those who consider it to be a war won or lost?

Is it autonomy for Iraq and freedom from the oppression they've experienced or is it something else?

Winning is defined as being able to pull our troops out of daily combat and have the Iraq army capable of dealing with any threat internal or external. Also, to have a stable government able to keep the country together and to support itself.

I'm going to ask a stupid question. Who exactly are we at war with? Because, we defeated the Iraqi army like 5 years ago and now we actually are fighting with them. Would it be fair to say that we won the 2nd Iraq war 5 years ago and now we playing policemen, or is there an actual organization we can put our finger on to say- we are at war with them?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I'm not being a jerk. I really do want to know what people mean when they say "winning" or "losing" this war.

What are the deciding factors in this matter to those who consider it to be a war won or lost?

Is it autonomy for Iraq and freedom from the oppression they've experienced or is it something else?

Winning is defined as being able to pull our troops out of daily combat and have the Iraq army capable of dealing with any threat internal or external. Also, to have a stable government able to keep the country together and to support itself.

I'm going to ask a stupid question. Who exactly are we at war with? Because, we defeated the Iraqi army like 5 years ago and now we actually are fighting with them. Would it be fair to say that we won the 2nd Iraq war 5 years ago and now we playing policemen, or is there an actual organization we can put our finger on to say- we are at war with them?

Because that would require the simple (and rather unpalatable answer) that we're fighting the Iraqi population. Specifically - Al Qaeda who showed up after Saddam's Regime was deposed (and because the Shia were killing the Sunnis), the Iraqi Shia groups that aren't affiliated with Iran; and the ones that are. In short its a bloody mess.

Edited June 3, 2008 by Number 6

[jundp 191]

I'm not being a jerk. I really do want to know what people mean when they say "winning" or "losing" this war.

What are the deciding factors in this matter to those who consider it to be a war won or lost?

Is it autonomy for Iraq and freedom from the oppression they've experienced or is it something else?

Winning is defined as being able to pull our troops out of daily combat and have the Iraq army capable of dealing with any threat internal or external. Also, to have a stable government able to keep the country together and to support itself.

Thank you. I wish I knew that was the real definition by all powers that be. Sadly I just see it as a lot of American men and women dying needlessly (and a lot of other people as well, but I'm being patriotic here).

I'm not being a jerk. I really do want to know what people mean when they say "winning" or "losing" this war.

What are the deciding factors in this matter to those who consider it to be a war won or lost?

Is it autonomy for Iraq and freedom from the oppression they've experienced or is it something else?

Winning is defined as being able to pull our troops out of daily combat and have the Iraq army capable of dealing with any threat internal or external. Also, to have a stable government able to keep the country together and to support itself.

I'm going to ask a stupid question. Who exactly are we at war with? Because, we defeated the Iraqi army like 5 years ago and now we actually are fighting with them. Would it be fair to say that we won the 2nd Iraq war 5 years ago and now we playing policemen, or is there an actual organization we can put our finger on to say- we are at war with them?

Yes. This is also a question I have.

[dalegg 143]

I'm not being a jerk. I really do want to know what people mean when they say "winning" or "losing" this war.

What are the deciding factors in this matter to those who consider it to be a war won or lost?

Is it autonomy for Iraq and freedom from the oppression they've experienced or is it something else?

Winning is defined as being able to pull our troops out of daily combat and have the Iraq army capable of dealing with any threat internal or external. Also, to have a stable government able to keep the country together and to support itself.

I'm going to ask a stupid question. Who exactly are we at war with? Because, we defeated the Iraqi army like 5 years ago and now we actually are fighting with them. Would it be fair to say that we won the 2nd Iraq war 5 years ago and now we playing policemen, or is there an actual organization we can put our finger on to say- we are at war with them?

Because that would require the simple (and rather unpalatable answer) that we're fighting the Iraqi population. Specifically - Al Qaeda who showed up after Saddam's Regime was deposed and because the Shia were killing the Sunnis, the Iraqi Shia groups that aren't affiliated with Iran; and the ones that are. In short its a bloody mess.

We're obviously not fighting the whole Iraqi population, not even a good percentage of it. Okay, so now it's Al Qaeda and the Shia. Wouldn't you say this is a different war than the one we started over 5 years ago?

[GaryC 7]

I'm not being a jerk. I really do want to know what people mean when they say "winning" or "losing" this war.

What are the deciding factors in this matter to those who consider it to be a war won or lost?

Is it autonomy for Iraq and freedom from the oppression they've experienced or is it something else?

Winning is defined as being able to pull our troops out of daily combat and have the Iraq army capable of dealing with any threat internal or external. Also, to have a stable government able to keep the country together and to support itself.

I'm going to ask a stupid question. Who exactly are we at war with? Because, we defeated the Iraqi army like 5 years ago and now we actually are fighting with them. Would it be fair to say that we won the 2nd Iraq war 5 years ago and now we playing policemen, or is there an actual organization we can put our finger on to say- we are at war with them?

Because that would require the simple (and rather unpalatable answer) that we're fighting the Iraqi population. Specifically - Al Qaeda who showed up after Saddam's Regime was deposed and because the Shia were killing the Sunnis, the Iraqi Shia groups that aren't affiliated with Iran; and the ones that are. In short its a bloody mess.

We're obviously not fighting the whole Iraqi population, not even a good percentage of it. Okay, so now it's Al Qaeda and the Shia. Wouldn't you say this is a different war than the one we started over 5 years ago?

This goes back to the "mission accomplished" banner the left so loves to beat us over the heads with. Yes, we won the war against Saddam. Yes, we are in a different war now. We are fighting a proxy war with Iran now. The Iraq population has pretty much stopped fighting us. The real threat comes from outside Iraq and is funded by Iran.

[endoftheroad 1]

I want us to leave where we do not belong. Intelligently, of course. We already lost that war the moment we allowed ourselves to invade based on lies.

truth