10 questions that every intelligent Christian must answer

[Peikko 1,575]

No, the UN will not and should not declare war on those countries who are currently not signed up to the Declaration. Again, again, again, that does not make the Declaration invalid or worthless or 'toothless' it simply means more work needs to be done to educate these people of the value of human life and the importance of a declaration of what is the value of human life in order to protect it.

Also, and you seem to have missed this somewhere, where the declaration has been adopted (which is a significant portion of countries globally) human rights abuses are reported and dealt with in courts of law. Again, this is not possible without the Declaration.

I am glad to see however, that you think that to value human life is a hilarious concept. Enlightenment - a long way off.

wrong there - it's due to the adoption of laws that allow a country's courts to try someone - not the declaration of rights that you so carry on about. the declaration of rights isn't a charge that will stick, only the laws of the country can a case be tried.

eta: the declaration of rights by the un remains toothless.

I guess the European Court of Human Rights will be pleased to note that they don't exist, nor do the cases they try.

Still, tell me, how would things improve were we to abolish the Declaration of Human Rights? Or, are you suggesting that simply nothing would change it is that irrelevant?

[SaadBell 0]

http://www.kgov.com

knowing the truth will set you free.......

Wow, that is a little scary.

julianna-

I just wonder what is the answer, why does God not cure amputees? I hear how everyone hates the video, yet no one has answered the question. Does not Jesus say in the NT, that ask and you shall receive, he said anything you bring to him in prayer will be given to you. He didn’t put any kind of clause in that agreement. He not only says it once but many many times in the NT. Yet when you look around, he seems to never answer prayers to certain members of the human race. So my question is Why?

[Dr. Obvious 49]

I will say this, I know that some who claim christianity are the most compassionate people on earth. However, they didn't espouse political ideology that puts the individual above all else. I guess that is something that I have had to learn the "American way", the individual is prized above all else but I just can't square that with the tenets of christianity. Quite a puzzle.

A second post in a row that I agree with, particularly what I bolded. It is one of the things that I don't understand either.

I thought it was because of the phrase 'God only helps those who help themselves.'.

A phrase that comes from Ben Franklin, and not the Bible. It's pretty clear in the New Testament that we are to put others before ourselves.

Regardless of where it came from, most American Christians I'd say take it pretty seriously.

[Ban Hammer 13,334]

No, the UN will not and should not declare war on those countries who are currently not signed up to the Declaration. Again, again, again, that does not make the Declaration invalid or worthless or 'toothless' it simply means more work needs to be done to educate these people of the value of human life and the importance of a declaration of what is the value of human life in order to protect it.

Also, and you seem to have missed this somewhere, where the declaration has been adopted (which is a significant portion of countries globally) human rights abuses are reported and dealt with in courts of law. Again, this is not possible without the Declaration.

I am glad to see however, that you think that to value human life is a hilarious concept. Enlightenment - a long way off.

wrong there - it's due to the adoption of laws that allow a country's courts to try someone - not the declaration of rights that you so carry on about. the declaration of rights isn't a charge that will stick, only the laws of the country can a case be tried.

eta: the declaration of rights by the un remains toothless.

I guess the European Court of Human Rights will be pleased to note that they don't exist, nor do the cases they try.

Still, tell me, how would things improve were we to abolish the Declaration of Human Rights? Or, are you suggesting that simply nothing would change it is that irrelevant?

the fact remains it's possible only when it's passed into law in the country, otherwise their courts can't prosecute it. you need to separate the un from being a lawmaking body.

nor are we tallking about the european court of human rights, we were discussing the un and it's declaration of human rights. do try to stay on topic.

Edited May 28, 2008 by charlesandnessa

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

http://www.kgov.com

knowing the truth will set you free.......

Wow, that is a little scary.

julianna-

I just wonder what is the answer, why does God not cure amputees? I hear how everyone hates the video, yet no one has answered the question. Does not Jesus say in the NT, that ask and you shall receive, he said anything you bring to him in prayer will be given to you. He didn’t put any kind of clause in that agreement. He not only says it once but many many times in the NT. Yet when you look around, he seems to never answer prayers to certain members of the human race. So my question is Why?

Imagine what the world population woud be if there was no sickness. Besides if an amputee came up to you and said hey Tara you like my new leg that god gave me. You would most likely say "get out"

[Cassie 8]

I will say this, I know that some who claim christianity are the most compassionate people on earth. However, they didn't espouse political ideology that puts the individual above all else. I guess that is something that I have had to learn the "American way", the individual is prized above all else but I just can't square that with the tenets of christianity. Quite a puzzle.

A second post in a row that I agree with, particularly what I bolded. It is one of the things that I don't understand either.

I thought it was because of the phrase 'God only helps those who help themselves.'.

A phrase that comes from Ben Franklin, and not the Bible. It's pretty clear in the New Testament that we are to put others before ourselves.

Regardless of where it came from, most American Christians I'd say take it pretty seriously.

Agreed, and hence my frustration.

[chri'stina 190]

I agree about certain Christians not acting very compassionate, but as an American Christian I don't want to be labeled either. I am sure there are Christians who act like that in all different countries. If a Christian acts selfish and only self centered, it doesn't matter what nationality they are, they are acting wrong. I know Cassie and others don't mean it to be a label, but it's not fair to talk about American Christians as if they are all the same.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

It's no fun without labels.

[Cassie 8]

I agree about certain Christians not acting very compassionate, but as an American Christian I don't want to be labeled either. I am sure there are Christians who act like that in all different countries. If a Christian acts selfish and only self centered, it doesn't matter what nationality they are, they are acting wrong. I know Cassie and others don't mean it to be a label, but it's not fair to talk about American Christians as if they are all the same.

Correct stina, there are many Christians I have come in contact with down home that have the same philosophy. But you cannot deny that there's the overall American way of life that promotes the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps and achieve the American Dream by your own power" idea rather than "love thy neighbor as thyself" (which immediately gets labeled as "socialism!!!!!! oh noes!!!!"), and a lot of it comes from conservatives who tend to affiliate themselves with Christianity. You only have to look at the debates over universal health care to see what I mean. But you are right, it isn't fair to tar everyone with the same brush, and it's quite possible I have no clue what I am talking about.

[Alex+R 0]

This is why I say I see christians use the bible all the time to justify just about anything. It's all over the place. There's something for everyone and every ideology in there. I don't think there is one way of thinking as a christian. Certainly here in the US the bootstraps Christianity-as-excuse-to-ignore-poverty viewpoint is popular.

[Nasturtium 500]

http://www.kgov.com

knowing the truth will set you free.......

Wow, that is a little scary.

julianna-

I just wonder what is the answer, why does God not cure amputees? I hear how everyone hates the video, yet no one has answered the question. Does not Jesus say in the NT, that ask and you shall receive, he said anything you bring to him in prayer will be given to you. He didn’t put any kind of clause in that agreement. He not only says it once but many many times in the NT. Yet when you look around, he seems to never answer prayers to certain members of the human race. So my question is Why?

That wasn't the question you asked this time, which was about if the guy presented his case well Yeshua does say that, and if you read the context of where he says it, it is as I said before to you (i posted back when you posted this the first time in MENA and then the second time in the thread 2 days ago and now)-- in relation to finding the key to salvation and heaven. It is not in relation to just anything. I also stated G-d is not a personal magician to do tricks, and do you have proof G-d had never healed an amputee in all of time, everywhere. Yeshua says you must pray in accordance to the will of G-d as well. Apparently, it was not the will of G-d that i get a mountain of icecream when I was 6, because I know I asked for that. It was also not the will of my parents either, but that doesn't mean they didn't love me.

Edited May 28, 2008 by julianna

[Cassie 8]

This is why I say I see christians use the bible all the time to justify just about anything. It's all over the place. There's something for everyone and every ideology in there. I don't think there is one way of thinking as a christian. Certainly here in the US the bootstraps Christianity-as-excuse-to-ignore-poverty viewpoint is popular.

You are correct, and that drives me crazy too. That's why I would zone out during Basic Christian Thought class in university (my minor is Biblical Studies) because theological debates do nothing but divide people, IMHO. If Christians focused on their personal relationship with God and stopped using the Bible for their own means and started doing what God wanted them to do, things would be a whole lot better and unified.

[Alex+R 0]

This is why I say I see christians use the bible all the time to justify just about anything. It's all over the place. There's something for everyone and every ideology in there. I don't think there is one way of thinking as a christian. Certainly here in the US the bootstraps Christianity-as-excuse-to-ignore-poverty viewpoint is popular.

You are correct, and that drives me crazy too. That's why I would zone out during Basic Christian Thought class in university (my minor is Biblical Studies) because theological debates do nothing but divide people, IMHO. If Christians focused on their personal relationship with God and stopped using the Bible for their own means and started doing what God wanted them to do, things would be a whole lot better and unified.

But then why do we need organized religion? Can't people just love God or whatever they interpret to be The Unknowable and try to live honestly and act out of love?

[Peikko 1,575]

No, the UN will not and should not declare war on those countries who are currently not signed up to the Declaration. Again, again, again, that does not make the Declaration invalid or worthless or 'toothless' it simply means more work needs to be done to educate these people of the value of human life and the importance of a declaration of what is the value of human life in order to protect it.

Also, and you seem to have missed this somewhere, where the declaration has been adopted (which is a significant portion of countries globally) human rights abuses are reported and dealt with in courts of law. Again, this is not possible without the Declaration.

I am glad to see however, that you think that to value human life is a hilarious concept. Enlightenment - a long way off.

wrong there - it's due to the adoption of laws that allow a country's courts to try someone - not the declaration of rights that you so carry on about. the declaration of rights isn't a charge that will stick, only the laws of the country can a case be tried.

eta: the declaration of rights by the un remains toothless.

I guess the European Court of Human Rights will be pleased to note that they don't exist, nor do the cases they try.

Still, tell me, how would things improve were we to abolish the Declaration of Human Rights? Or, are you suggesting that simply nothing would change it is that irrelevant?

the fact remains it's possible only when it's passed into law in the country, otherwise their courts can't prosecute it. you need to separate the un from being a lawmaking body.

nor are we tallking about the european court of human rights, we were discussing the un and it's declaration of human rights. do try to stay on topic.

Are you lost? The Eurpean Court of Human Rights couldn't exist without the Declaration of Human Rights and is an example of what I tried explaining to you that the Declaration of Human Rights is fundamental to ensuring the legal defence of human rights. The Court supersedes the laws of individual countries which is the way it should be as it ensures that individual countries uphold the protection of Human Rights.

While it would be great if this was globallly applied, it is not worthless because it isn't.

[Peikko 1,575]

This is why I say I see christians use the bible all the time to justify just about anything. It's all over the place. There's something for everyone and every ideology in there. I don't think there is one way of thinking as a christian. Certainly here in the US the bootstraps Christianity-as-excuse-to-ignore-poverty viewpoint is popular.

You are correct, and that drives me crazy too. That's why I would zone out during Basic Christian Thought class in university (my minor is Biblical Studies) because theological debates do nothing but divide people, IMHO. If Christians focused on their personal relationship with God and stopped using the Bible for their own means and started doing what God wanted them to do, things would be a whole lot better and unified.

But then why do we need organized religion? Can't people just love God or whatever they interpret to be The Unknowable and try to live honestly and act out of love?

As I understood it, one of the obligations of being a christian is outreach. Another obligation is to come together as a congregation and worship god. I am not sure whether these are manmade obligations or 'godmade' ones though.