US Citizenship

[shikarnov 7]

Hi All,

Ira and I were talked the other day, and like so many conversations, our ending point was no where near our starting point. I forget exactly what we started discussing, but in the end she posed a question to me: "Why would [she] want to become a US Citizen?"

For somebody who isn't very political, the right to vote carried little weight (especially as she see's how easily democracy can be aborted by the Democratic Superdelegates -- "Eetz eksaktly ze same een Rossia."), I was left without many upshots over permanent residency. If she got in trouble in Russia, I suspect US Citizenship wouldn't do much to protect her, and would probably inflame whatever problems she was having to begin with (to say nothing of what her family would say). And with Russia working out travel arrangements with the EU, she'll be able to travel to all the places she desires without problems on her Russian passport.

So, for anybody who has changed citizenship from Russia, is married to somebody who did, or is going through that process now, I'd like to ask you: why? And why not just stay here as a permanent resident?

Thanks!

Z

Edited May 27, 2008 by shikarnov

[Satellite 1]

Best reasons are:

1. Right to vote

2. Never deal with USCIS again. Must file for I-90 green card renewal every 10 years.

3. Travel limited to just 1 year at a time and must seek I-131 for another year.

4. Always must maintain permanent residence in the US or you abandon your residency (green card). Regardless of time abroad.

5. Any serious crime (drugs especially), even if you were "framed" you are subject to deportation.

6. Jobs with FBI, CIA, and sometimes as police officers and public school teachers K-12.

7. Russian passports open few doors without visas. Big hassle in my opinion.

[slim 1,530]

It's not something my wife is really dying to do either. She's never brought it up or asked how to do it or if she should do it and when I ask her if it's something she'd want to do she dismisses it and says, "maybe someday, but why?"

Personally, I don't think too many American citizens really care about their citizenship anymore. The most "American" guy I've known in the last couple years was a Mexican immigrant who refused to drink Tecate because it was Mexican beer. He wanted Budweiser because he was American and went through all that trouble to get his citizenship. (Showed up late/drunk with no wallet to his interview but grabbed the arm of the officer and cried "I worked so hard to become an American. You know everything I had to go through to be here today? Come on, just let me be a part of this great country.")

[eekee 182]

If she got in trouble in Russia, I suspect US Citizenship wouldn't do much to protect her, and would probably inflame whatever problems she was having to begin with (to say nothing of what her family would say).

Would she have to give up her Russian citizenship? I'm pretty sure that neither country recognizes dual citizenship, but I thought that meant that when she was in Russia the US couldn't help her and that Russia couldn't help her while she was in the US.

[Chuckles 0]

My understanding is that while neither country supports dual-citizenship, you can still do it. Does anyone with experience or a better understanding agree with this?

[Ilya R. 0]

My understanding is that while neither country supports dual-citizenship, you can still do it. Does anyone with experience or a better understanding agree with this?

What do you mean they dont support dual citizenships? My parents are both US/Russian citizens. Russia/US have an agreement in place.

[LvivLovers 39]

If she got in trouble in Russia, I suspect US Citizenship wouldn't do much to protect her, and would probably inflame whatever problems she was having to begin with (to say nothing of what her family would say).

Would she have to give up her Russian citizenship? I'm pretty sure that neither country recognizes dual citizenship, but I thought that meant that when she was in Russia the US couldn't help her and that Russia couldn't help her while she was in the US.

That's my understanding of it. Each country recognizes it's own citizenship only. When you become a US Citizen you must renounce citizenship in any other country. Whether or not that actually affects your citizenship in another country or not depends on the country. Most will just ignore the fact you renounced your membership and if you are visiting your previous country you will be treated as a citizen of that country (and they won't recognize that you are a US citizen also). It could get sort of complicated.

[Blues Fairy 0]

I'd like to ask you: why? And why not just stay here as a permanent resident?

To be able to vote against the U.S. presidential candidate who supports amnesty of illegal aliens.

[eekee 182]

I'd like to ask you: why? And why not just stay here as a permanent resident?

To be able to vote against the U.S. presidential candidate who supports amnesty of illegal aliens.

eh, what the president thinks won't matter too much. that's the kind of thing that goes through congress instead. he'll have veto power, yes, but that's about it.

Edited May 27, 2008 by eekee

[Okiebollweevil 0]

Best reasons are:

1. Right to vote

2. Never deal with USCIS again. Must file for I-90 green card renewal every 10 years.

3. Travel limited to just 1 year at a time and must seek I-131 for another year.

4. Always must maintain permanent residence in the US or you abandon your residency (green card). Regardless of time abroad.

5. Any serious crime (drugs especially), even if you were "framed" you are subject to deportation.

6. Jobs with FBI, CIA, and sometimes as police officers and public school teachers K-12.

7. Russian passports open few doors without visas. Big hassle in my opinion.

My wife filed N-400 2 weeks after receiving 10 year green card. At first it wasn't a consideration, now #7 above is very meaningful to her. She understands no matter what any other country does, she is still a citizen of Russia. All the other listed items suggest a good reason for paying the money and getting the citizenship.

[eekee 182]

My understanding is that while neither country supports dual-citizenship, you can still do it. Does anyone with experience or a better understanding agree with this?

What do you mean they dont support dual citizenships? My parents are both US/Russian citizens. Russia/US have an agreement in place.

There is no special agreement between US and Russia. There is one between Turkmenistan and Russia, Ukraine and Russia, and Belarus and Russia. (And maybe Israel, can't remember now.) If you hold both citizenships, you'll be considered a Russian citizen in Russia (and must enter and exit with your Russian passport) and an American one in America (and must enter and exit with your US passport). So if you have both, the American consulate can't help you in Russia if you get in trouble and the Russian one can't help you in America. True recognized dual citizenship means that Russia would acknowledge both your citizenships in the Russian Federation and vice versa.

Neither side requires you to renounce your old citizenship if you become a citizen of the country, but they won't honor your old one either.

Edited May 27, 2008 by eekee

[akdiver 3]

To me, the main reason is to travel (to places besides Russia) on a U.S. passport. Makes travel so much easier - and travel is one of our major hobbies and common interests.

Second, never dealing with USCIS again. This includes renewals, residency issues, changing rules in the future for PRs, and other assorted things. Get the citizenship, get the first passport from the state department and then you can send USCIS a big package of #### you forever.

Third, eliminate the whole residency requirements problems. If we wanna go live in Australia for 5 years, then #### it - we're going. Don't have to worry about abandoned U.S. residency.

Fourth - become eligible for many more jobs - ones that require citizenship (including most federal jobs).

Right to vote really doesn't matter - you can vote all your want, morons and crooks will still be elected to office. I've always voted, but truthfully, I don't know why I even bother. Right to be on a jury - yeah right. Give up paid time from work to go get $12/day or whatever. Some privilege. No thanks.

In any case - well worth doing, highly recommend.

Edited May 28, 2008 by akdiver

[Satellite 1]

Neither side requires you to renounce your old citizenship if you become a citizen of the country, but they won't honor your old one either.

False, I tried to restore "Russian" citizenship to save on visa costs, just to find out I had to renounce my US citizenship to get it. Of course I told the Russian officials you must be crazy. For details see:

"Прием в гражданство Российской Федерации в упрощенном порядке"...

"7. Иностранные граждане также представляют документ полномочного органа иностранного государства, подтверждающий обращение заявителя об отказе от имеющегося иного гражданства в порядке, предусмотренном законодательством данного государства, либо невозможность отказа от иного гражданства, а также копию данного обращения, заверенную соответствующим полномочным органом иностранного государства.

В случае если отказ лица от иного гражданства возможен, но обусловлен приобретением гражданства Российской Федерации, заявитель обязуется в течение одного года со дня приобретения гражданства Российской Федерации представить документ о выходе из иного гражданства.

В случае если иное гражданство прекращается у лица вследствие приобретения гражданства Российской Федерации, заявитель обязуется представить соответствующий документ в течение трех месяцев со дня приобретения гражданства Российской Федерации.

Представления документа об отказе от иного гражданства не требуется, если заявитель состоит в гражданстве государства, с которым Российская Федерация имеет международный договор, предусматривающий возможность сохранения имеющегося гражданства при приобретении гражданства Российской Федерации.

http://www.consulrussia.org/ru/citizen.html#1

However, I know for a fact a Russian citizen can apply for US citizenship without providing a document showing he or she surrendered his or her Russian citizenship. And I believe if one goes through the process of obtaining Russian citizenship in Russia, no such requirement is also enforced.

I had up to 2002 to get the citizenship back without all this non-sense, but I was too young and uninterested in the subject then. I don't really regret it as I would be subject to their military requirements if I had done so when I went to visit my fiancée in 2003 and 2004.

[eekee 182]

Neither side requires you to renounce your old citizenship if you become a citizen of the country, but they won't honor your old one either.

False, I tried to restore "Russian" citizenship to save on visa costs, just to find out I had to renounce my US citizenship to get it. Of course I told the Russian officials you must be crazy. For details see:

"Прием в гражданство Российской Федерации в упрощенном порядке"...

"7. Иностранные граждане также представляют документ полномочного органа иностранного государства, подтверждающий обращение заявителя об отказе от имеющегося иного гражданства в порядке, предусмотренном законодательством данного государства, либо невозможность отказа от иного гражданства, а также копию данного обращения, заверенную соответствующим полномочным органом иностранного государства.

В случае если отказ лица от иного гражданства возможен, но обусловлен приобретением гражданства Российской Федерации, заявитель обязуется в течение одного года со дня приобретения гражданства Российской Федерации представить документ о выходе из иного гражданства.

В случае если иное гражданство прекращается у лица вследствие приобретения гражданства Российской Федерации, заявитель обязуется представить соответствующий документ в течение трех месяцев со дня приобретения гражданства Российской Федерации.

Представления документа об отказе от иного гражданства не требуется, если заявитель состоит в гражданстве государства, с которым Российская Федерация имеет международный договор, предусматривающий возможность сохранения имеющегося гражданства при приобретении гражданства Российской Федерации.

http://www.consulrussia.org/ru/citizen.html#1

However, I know for a fact a Russian citizen can apply for US citizenship without providing a document showing he or she surrendered his or her Russian citizenship. And I believe if one goes through the process of obtaining Russian citizenship in Russia, no such requirement is also enforced.

I had up to 2002 to get the citizenship back without all this non-sense, but I was too young and uninterested in the subject then. I don't really regret it as I would be subject to their military requirements if I had done so when I went to visit my fiancée in 2003 and 2004.

I read that with either case, you swear allegiance to US or Russia, but you have to officially renounce your citizenship in front of a US officer to lose your US citizenship.

"1. A citizen of the Russian Federation may have the citizenship of a foreign State (dual citizenship) according to the federal law or an international agreement of the Russian Federation."

i am too tired to read russian legalese right now. i barely understand english legalese when i am fully awake. I would definitely not be able to pass a bar exam.

Edited May 28, 2008 by eekee

[slim 1,530]

I'd like to ask you: why? And why not just stay here as a permanent resident?

To be able to vote against the U.S. presidential candidate who supports amnesty of illegal aliens.

eh, what the president thinks won't matter too much. that's the kind of thing that goes through congress instead. he'll have veto power, yes, but that's about it.

Do you guys really think your votes still count?