Curious MENA question...

[Nasturtium 500]

The verses on which this whole premise are based are discussing finding out the "truth" from G-d and the keys to the kingdom of heaven as it were, salvation. They are not the premise for every single prayer you could ever have. G-d is not our personal magician, to preform tricks at our beck and call.

Why won't God heal amputees?

How Prayer Works

For believers, it is obvious why so many prayers are answered. In the Bible, Jesus promises many times that he will answer our prayers. For example, in Matthew 7:7 Jesus says: Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him! Ask and you will receive. What could be simpler than that?

In Matthew 17:20 Jesus reiterates that same message:

For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.

Since a mustard seed is a tiny inanimate object about the size of a grain of salt, it is easy to imagine that the faith of a mustard seed is fairly small. So, paraphrasing, what Jesus is saying is that if you have the tiniest bit of faith, you can move mountains.

Jesus says something similar in Matthew 21:21:

I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.

The message is reiterated Mark 11:24:

Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

In John chapter 14, verses 12 through 14, Jesus tells all of us just how easy prayer can be:

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I go to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; if you ask anything in my name, I will do it.

In Matthew 18:19 Jesus says it again:

Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Jesus is actually in our midst and God answers our prayers.

The miracle of Jeanna Giese

There are so many examples of the power of prayer, but one in particular deserves special consideration because it is so well documented. In December of 2004 a girl named Jeanna Giese survived a bite from a rabid bat through prayer. Hundreds of newspapers (including the Raleigh News and Observer in my home town) ran stories about the miracle of her recovery with headlines such as "Rabies girl in miracle recovery." In Raleigh, the headline was "Web weaves global prayer circle - Petitions circle the world as girl beats rare case of rabies." [source: by Sharon Roznik, Raleigh News and Observer, December 17, 2004]

The summary of the story goes like this. Jeanna was in a church service in Wisconsin when a brown bat fell into the aisle. She picked the bat up and carried it outside. No one gave it a second thought.

A month later it was obvious that something was wrong. Soon Jeanna had a full case of rabies. No human has ever survived this disease without being vaccinated. Up until 2004, full-blown rabies had been 100% fatal.

According to the article, a global prayer circle helped Jeanna survive. Once she got sick, Jeanna's father called friends and asked them to pray for Jeanna. People around the world heard about her story through the press and by word of mouth. They prayed. They sent emails. They passed the word along. Millions of people heard about Jeanna's plight and they said prayers for her.

And the prayer circle worked. Through the power of God, Jeanna recovered. Jeanna was the first human to survive rabies without the vaccine.

Dr. Charles Rupprecht of the CDC in Atlanta called Jeanna's case a miracle. The family and everyone in Jeanna's huge, global prayer circle know that God heard their prayers and answered them.

This is amazing stuff. The dictionary defines a miracle as "An event that appears inexplicable by the laws of nature and so is held to be supernatural in origin or an act of God." [ref] So we must ask a fundamental question: Did an all-loving, all-powerful God hear the prayers from Jeanna's worldwide prayer circle and then reach down from heaven to help Jeanna? Did God actually interact with Jeanna's body, making the impossible happen and curing her case of rabies through a divine miracle?

Or did something else happen?

We can actually answer this question with a simple experiment....

A simple experiment

For this experiment, we need to find a deserving person who has had both of his legs amputated. For example, find a sincere, devout veteran of the Iraqi war, or a person who was involved in a tragic automobile accident.

Now create a prayer circle like the one created for Jeanna Giese. The job of this prayer circle is simple: pray to God to restore the amputated legs of this deserving person. I do not mean to pray for a team of renowned surgeons to somehow graft the legs of a cadaver onto the soldier, nor for a team of renowned scientists to craft mechanical legs for him. Pray that God spontaneously and miraculously restores the soldier's legs overnight, in the same way that God spontaneously and miraculously cured Jeanna Giese and Marilyn Hickey's mother.

If possible, get millions of people all over the planet to join the prayer circle and pray their most fervent prayers. Get millions of people praying in unison for a single miracle for this one deserving amputee. Then stand back and watch.

What is going to happen? Jesus clearly says that if you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer. He does not say it once -- he says it many times in many ways in the Bible.

And yet, even with millions of people praying, nothing will happen.

No matter how many people pray. No matter how sincere those people are. No matter how much they believe. No matter how devout and deserving the recipient. Nothing will happen. The legs will not regenerate. Prayer does not restore the severed limbs of amputees. You can electronically search through all the medical journals ever written -- there is no documented case of an amputated leg being restored spontaneously. And we know that God ignores the prayers of amputees through our own observations of the world around us. If God were answering the prayers of amputees to regenerate their lost limbs, we would be seeing amputated legs growing back every day.

Isn't that odd? The situation becomes even more peculiar when you look at who God is. According to the Standard Model of God:

•God is all-powerful. Therefore, God can do anything, and regenerating a leg is trivial.

•God is perfect, and he created the Bible, which is his perfect book. In the Bible, Jesus makes very specific statements about the power of prayer. Since Jesus is God, and God and the Bible are perfect, those statements should be true and accurate.

•God is all-knowing and all-loving. He certainly knows about the plight of the amputee, and he loves this amputee very much.

•God is ready and willing to answer your prayers no matter how big or small. All that you have to do is believe. He says it in multiple places in the Bible. Surely, with millions of people in the prayer circle, at least one of them will believe and the prayer will be answered.

•God has no reason to discriminate against amputees. If he is answering millions of other prayers like Jeanna's every day, God should be answering the prayers of amputees too.

Nonetheless, the amputated legs are not going to regenerate.

What are we seeing here? It is not that God sometimes answers the prayers of amputees, and sometimes does not. Instead, in this situation there is a very clear line. God never answers the prayers of amputees. It would appear, to an unbiased observer, that God is singling out amputees and purposefully ignoring them.

Understanding amputees

You can see that the amputee experiment reframes our conversation. No longer are we talking about "religion" or "faith". What we are talking about here is more fundamental.

At the beginning of the chapter we highlighted a number of promises that Jesus makes about prayer in the Bible. Summarizing, here is what Jesus promised:

•If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer. [Matthew 21:21]

•If you ask anything in my name, I will do it. [John 14:14]

•Ask, and it will be given you. [Matthew 7:7]

•Nothing will be impossible to you. [Matthew 17:20]

•Believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. [Mark 11:24]

The question, therefore, is simple: Are Jesus' statements in the Bible true or false?

For example, in John 3:16 Jesus says, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." People take that at face value: if you believe in Jesus, you will have eternal life. So when Jesus says, "Believe that you have received it, and it will be yours," isn't it the same thing? Can't we take that statement at face value as well?

By looking at amputees, we can see that something is wrong. Jesus is not telling the truth. God never answers prayers to spontaneously restore lost limbs, despite Jesus' statements in the Bible. Accepting this piece of factual information, rather than denying it, is the first step in understanding something extremely important about how prayer really works.

Even if you take a liberal rather than literal stance on the Bible, this feels strange, doesn't it? You may not literally believe that "nothing will be impossible for you" nor that "faith can move mountains," but I think we can agree that there is something very odd about the way that God treats amputees. No matter how many people pray. No matter how sincere those people are. No matter how much they believe. No matter how devout and deserving the recipient. Nothing happens when we pray for amputated limbs. God never regenerates lost limbs through prayer, even though Christians believe that

God is answering millions of other prayers on earth every day.

Does God answer prayers? If so, then how do we explain this disconnection between God and amputees? What should we do with the piece of empirical data that amputees represent? We need to somehow explain why God would answer millions of prayers on earth, yet completely ignore prayers for amputated limbs. Let's examine the possible explanations one by one.

Rationalization #1

Here is an explanation that you might have heard or used before:

The reason God cures thousands of cancers, infections, etc. each day but never intervenes with amputees is because it is not God's will to do that. It is not part of God's plan.

This explanation seems a little odd. Amputees really do seem to be getting the short end of God's plan if this is the case. If God answers prayers as promised in the Bible, and if God is performing all of the medical miracles that we read about in inspirational literature, then God should also be restoring amputated limbs. Why would God help cancer victims (e.g. Marilyn Hickey's mother) and people bitten by rabid bats (e.g. Jeanna Giese), but discriminate against amputees like this?

Keep in mind what Jesus promised:

•If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer. [Matthew 21:21]

•If you ask anything in my name, I will do it. [John 14:14]

•Ask, and it will be given you. [Matthew 7:7]

•Nothing will be impossible to you. [Matthew 17:20]

•Believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. [Mark 11:24]

There is no indication from Jesus that amputees will be ignored when they pray for medical help. The fact is, all five of these statements are completely false in the case of amputees.

The five quotes in the previous paragraph are all simple, straightforward statements. Doesn't "nothing will be impossible for you" mean "nothing will be impossible for you"? Jesus is God, and as an all-knowing being God knows how humans interpret sentences. If Jesus did not mean "nothing will be impossible for you," it seems like Jesus would have said something else. He also would not repeat that sentiment so many times. And Jesus is supposedly answering millions of prayers each day, so prayer-answering seems to be his intent.

Rationalization #2

In a similar vein, many believers will say, "God always answers prayers, but sometimes his answer is 'no.' If your prayer does not fit with God's will, then God will say 'no' to you." This feels odd because God's answer to every amputee is always "no" when it comes to regenerating lost limbs. Jesus says, "If you ask anything in my name, I will do it." He does not say, "If you ask anything in my name, I will do it, unless you are praying about an amputated limb, in which case I will always reject your prayer." Jesus also says, "Nothing will be impossible to you," and regenerating a limb should therefore be possible. The fact that God refuses to answer every prayer to regenerate a lost limb seems strange, doesn't it?

Rationalization #3

Here is another explanation that you might have heard: "God needs to remain hidden -- restoring an amputated limb would be too obvious." We will discuss this idea in more detail in later chapters, but let's touch on it here. Does God need to remain hidden?

That does not seem to be the case. In general, God seems to have no problem doing things that are obvious. Think about the Bible. Writing the Bible and having billions of copies published all over the world is obvious. So is parting the Red Sea. So is carving the Ten Commandments on stone tables. So is sending your son to earth and having him perform dozens of recorded miracles. And so on. It makes no sense for a God in hiding to incarnate himself, or to do these other obvious things. Why send your son to earth, and then write a book that talks all about his exploits, if you are trying to hide?

In the same way, any medical miracle that God performs today is obvious. The removal of a cancerous tumor is obvious because it is measurable. One month the tumor is visible to everyone on the X-ray, and the next month it is not. If God eliminated the tumor, then it is openly obvious to everyone who sees the X-ray. There is nothing "hidden" about removing a tumor. So, why not regenerate a leg in an equally open way? If God intervenes with cancer patients to remove cancerous tumors in response to prayers, then why wouldn't God also intervene with amputees to regenerate lost limbs?

Another example is seen in Jeanne's rabies case discussed earlier in the chapter. Tens of millions of people are aware of the Jeanna's rabies miracle. Personally, I read about it in a big article in my morning newspaper. That is pretty obvious. What is hidden about her recovery?

Rationalization #4

Some people might say, "Everyone's life serves God in different ways. Perhaps God uses amputees to teach us something. God must have a higher purpose for amputees." That may be the case -- God may be trying to send a message. But, again, it seems odd that he would single out this one group of people to handle the delivery. To quote Marilyn Hickey once again:

No matter what has happened in your past, no matter what is happening in your present, seek out your heavenly Father in prayer as often as you can. Take my word for it -- He loves you and wants to answer your prayers.

You see this logic all the time in inspirational literature and hear it every Sunday at thousands of churches: "God loves you! God hears your prayers and will answer them for you!" See this article for an example. Yet, for some reason, miracles never happen when it comes to regenerating lost limbs. It does not seem to make sense that amputees would be cut off from the blessings that Jesus promises in the Bible. And it also does not mesh with all of the prayers that Jesus seems to be answering for other people.

Rationalization #5

Some people ascribe the problems that amputees face to free will. They will say, "Well, if you go into a war zone and get your legs blown off, that is your own free will. God gives us free will. You made a free choice to be a soldier. It is not God's fault, and therefore he has no obligation to repair the damage." This logic is fascinating. What about all the people who are born with missing limbs, or the people who lose limbs to diseases through no fault or choice of their own? How are these people any different from cancer victims, who, supposedly, are constantly being healed by God?

We know that God ignores all amputees, regardless of the cause of the missing limb. Why doesn't God heal thalidomide babies, who are by definition completely innocent? Or the innocent children who lose their limbs in mine fields? Why would God heal millions of other diseases, but completely ignore any disease that results in a lost or missing limb?

Rationalization #6

Some believers say, "God does help amputees - he inspires scientists and engineers to create artificial limbs for them!" This logic is interesting, especially if we look at other examples. Take the case of smallpox. Millions upon millions of people died of smallpox until the vaccine was invented in the twentieth century. If God is the one who inspired the scientists, why did God wait until the twentieth century to do it? Why would God want to be the source of the massive suffering that smallpox caused prior to the twentieth century? And why do we pay the scientists, given that their work is simply God's inspiration? (we will discuss the question of divine inspiration in more detail in Chapter 7)

Rationalization #7

Someone might say, "Thou shalt not test the Lord. It says so in the Bible." This is hard to swallow because every prayer is a test. Either God answers the prayer or he does not. There is no difference between praying for an amputee and praying for Jeanna Giese and her rabies.

Note also that many believers track their prayers with prayer journals. See, for example, prayer-journal.com. Why not pray to God to heal an amputee, and then track the results of the prayer in a prayer journal?

Rationalization #8

Some people might say something like, "Jesus never says when he will answer your prayers. Maybe your prayer will be answered in the afterlife." But that seems uncomfortable. Jesus is answering millions of prayers for everyone else in the here and now. Clearly that is what he means with all his verses in the Bible. Why single out amputees for treatment in the afterlife when Marilyn and Jeanna get their prayers answered almost instantaneously?

Rationalization #9

Someone might say, "God will answer your prayers, but not immediately. You must be patient." They will point to a situation like that found in Mark 6:47-51:

And when evening came, the boat was out on the sea, and he was alone on the land. And he saw that they were making headway painfully, for the wind was against them. And about the fourth watch of the night he came to them, walking on the sea. He meant to pass by them, but when they saw him walking on the sea they thought it was a ghost, and cried out; for they all saw him, and were terrified. But immediately he spoke to them and said, "Take heart, it is I; have no fear." And he got into the boat with them and the wind ceased.

A person might say, "you see, he came in the fourth watch (generally understood to be 3AM to 6AM), not in the first or second or third. You must be patient and wait for the Lord to answer your prayers." This is just as uncomfortable as the previous explanation. God does not answer the prayers of any amputee to restore lost limbs.

Rationalization #10

A believer might say, "You are taking the Bible literally." But how else are we supposed to take it? Jesus clearly says, "If you ask anything in my name, I will do it." When Jesus says that, what does he mean? Presumably, Jesus means that if you ask for anything, he will do it. What else could he possibly mean?

Believers often respond with, "Look, Jesus was using poetic embellishment when he said, 'nothing will be impossible for you,' and 'faith can move mountains.'" Which leads to the following question: What prayers does God answer? It is the response to that question that is fascinating. Because the response inevitably is, "God is omnipotent, so God can do anything."

Which leads us right back to the question, "Why won't God heal amputees?"

Rationalization #11

Finally, there is this oft-used chestnut: "There is no way to understand the mysteries of our Lord. People have believed in Jesus for 2,000 years, and there must be a very good reason for it." This feels like a sad point in the conversation. On one side of the conversation is a person who is defending the all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving creator of the universe. This person's position should be unassailable. Yet, if God exists, and answers prayers as described in the Bible, there is no explanation for what we see in the world around us. The Bible is silent in this case. God is silent. There is not a good, comfortable explanation for the situation faced by amputees except to say, "We cannot understand the mysteries of the Lord. We have no explanation for why God refuses to answer prayers to regenerate lost limbs."

Explaining the case of amputees

Just for a moment, I would ask you to consider the possibility of another explanation. If you believe in God, then this explanation will initially appear to be complete nonsense. However, it is interesting in light of the conversation we will be having in this book.

One explanation for the evidence that we see before us is this:

God exists, and God answers prayers, but for some reason God chooses to ignore the prayers of amputees. We don't have a good explanation for why God acts this way, and it does seem to contradict what Jesus teaches about prayer in the Bible, but clearly God has his divine reasons.

Now let's look at the situation with amputees from another point of view. This explanation is more straightforward:

God is imaginary.

Let's look at what happens when we consider this explanation and see how it stacks up.

Assume that God is imaginary. The beauty of this explanation is that it fits the facts perfectly. In the case of amputees, it is a valid way to explain the reality that we see in our world. The logic goes like this:

If God is imaginary, then he does not answer any prayers. Therefore, the prayers of amputees would go unanswered too.

The thing that is so appealing about this explanation is that there is no hand waving. There are no contradictions. It is completely fair. There is no paradox. This explanation makes complete sense in light of the evidence we see in our world.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Muslims have fewer problems, some, but fewer, with the Tanakh than we do with the NT.

[Nasturtium 500]

(heehee jen!)

At least someone got it.

P.S. Alhamdulillah- of course not!!!

Sigh. Do you think anyone is ever going to answer my question or do you suppose this is going to keep on going forever and ever and ever on religious debate? Should we give up now and assume no one is going to answer? Close the thread and call it a day or discuss my squash? Why now the latter? it's just as OT and less offensive. Today I thinned out like 5 jumbo pink banana squash, wondered about how atheist and agnostic spouses of MENA Muslims dealt with their MENA inlaws, and then didn't have the heart to kill all the little squashlings, so I transplanted some into the cuke beds where nothing seems to be coming up.

[sereia 0]

(heehee jen!)

At least someone got it.

P.S. Alhamdulillah- of course not!!!

Sigh. Do you think anyone is ever going to answer my question or do you suppose this is going to keep on going forever and ever and ever on religious debate? Should we give up now and assume no one is going to answer? Close the thread and call it a day or discuss my squash? Why now the latter? it's just as OT and less offensive. Today I thinned out like 5 jumbo pink banana squash, wondered about how atheist and agnostic spouses of MENA Muslims dealt with their MENA inlaws, and then didn't have the heart to kill all the little squashlings, so I transplanted some into the cuke beds where nothing seems to be coming up.

I don't know, Julianna. I suppose its just going to end up in disaster like most controversial posts do around here.

No cukes this year? The horror! But at least you'll get to eat squash... I like squash. But I think I prefer cucumbers. Persian cucumbers to be specific. Today I made fattoush with persian cucumbers and everyone raved. Why aren't the more readily available like the other kinds? They blow English hothouse out of the water!

Edited May 27, 2008 by sereia

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I am more of what you call a free thinker

And us religious folk are a bunch of lug heads?

Scientists can be, and frequently are, wrong!

Islam is also very patient and understanding... Only God can truly be the judge of what is acceptable and not. Discouraged is a better word

No, the Quran is quite clear that only chaste women from the ppl of the book are halal for muslim men to marry (other than muslim women of course).

So pretty much everyone on VJ-MENA were not an acceptable mate to marry their Muslim husbands!

Unchaste Muslims are not allowed to marry from among chaste Muslims, but are directed to marry other unchaste Muslims non-Muslims. The unchaste cannot marry from among the chaste. "Chastity" is not a term limited to virgins, but also includes those who have only had sexual relations within the bounds of marriage, and whose marriage(s) have ended by valid divorce or death.

[Nasturtium 500]

Muslims have fewer problems, some, but fewer, with the Tanakh than we do with the NT.

I have heard this but have never seen the verses/problems that they have with it. Thanks

[Nasturtium 500]

I don't know, Julianna. I suppose its just going to end up in disaster like most controversial posts do around here.

No cukes this year? The horror! But at least you'll get to eat squash... I like squash. But I think I prefer cucumbers. Persian cucumbers to be specific. Today I made fattoush with persian cucumbers and everyone raved. Why aren't the more readily available like the other kinds? They blow English hothouse out of the water!

Isn't it kind of funny that my post which had to do with atheists and agnostics, thus a lack of religion, is filled with a ton of religion?

Are you talking aout the cucumbers which are kind of sweet and whatnot? Those are a species of melon, actually. I am going to grow those too! I have lemon cukes coming up, but not my sumter cucumbers which were for Ammar. I don't know why those others aren't readily available, although it probably is just pure cultural preference. They are just as easy as anything else to grow. My jumbo pink banana squash is really awesome. In the immature stage it can be eaten like a summer squash (which are all immature squash by the way-- let them keep growing and they develop a hard shell). In the full-grown stage they can be 40+ lbs and are the ones commercially sold in sections in the grovery store sometimes-- and can store for months.

[sereia 0]

I am more of what you call a free thinker

And us religious folk are a bunch of lug heads?

Scientists can be, and frequently are, wrong!

Islam is also very patient and understanding... Only God can truly be the judge of what is acceptable and not. Discouraged is a better word

No, the Quran is quite clear that only chaste women from the ppl of the book are halal for muslim men to marry (other than muslim women of course).

So pretty much everyone on VJ-MENA were not an acceptable mate to marry their Muslim husbands!

Unchaste Muslims are not allowed to marry from among chaste Muslims, but are directed to marry other unchaste Muslims non-Muslims. The unchaste cannot marry from among the chaste. "Chastity" is not a term limited to virgins, but also includes those who have only had sexual relations within the bounds of marriage, and whose marriage(s) have ended by valid divorce or death.

I understand what chastity means and what it means in regards to Muslims, thanks! (but it was good for you to add for those who don't know)

[Badrs Love 0]

Sigh. Do you think anyone is ever going to answer my question or do you suppose this is going to keep on going forever and ever and ever on religious debate? Should we give up now and assume no one is going to answer? Close the thread and call it a day or discuss my squash? Why now the latter? it's just as OT and less offensive. Today I thinned out like 5 jumbo pink banana squash, wondered about how atheist and agnostic spouses of MENA Muslims dealt with their MENA inlaws, and then didn't have the heart to kill all the little squashlings, so I transplanted some into the cuke beds where nothing seems to be coming up.

I'll bite. I wasn't raised with any sort of religion. My mother was raised a strict Catholic and made a promise to herself that she would let her children decide what religion they want to be. I've been to many different churches and I did a little research on some of them. I went through a Buddist phase in high school. I have one sibling and she has converted to Islam because her husband is from Jordan. I have started reading about Islam since I met Badr and since I have really nothing to compare it to, I do seem to like it. Whether I will convert, I'm not yet sure. As to his parents, they accept me and love me for me. They know I'm not Muslim but the fact that their son loves me and is truly happy, my religion or lack there of doesn't bother them.

I feel like I got off track, but does that answer your question?

[sereia 0]

I don't know, Julianna. I suppose its just going to end up in disaster like most controversial posts do around here.

No cukes this year? The horror! But at least you'll get to eat squash... I like squash. But I think I prefer cucumbers. Persian cucumbers to be specific. Today I made fattoush with persian cucumbers and everyone raved. Why aren't the more readily available like the other kinds? They blow English hothouse out of the water!

Isn't it kind of funny that my post which had to do with atheists and agnostics, thus a lack of religion, is filled with a ton of religion?

Are you talking aout the cucumbers which are kind of sweet and whatnot? Those are a species of melon, actually. I am going to grow those too! I have lemon cukes coming up, but not my sumter cucumbers which were for Ammar. I don't know why those others aren't readily available, although it probably is just pure cultural preference. They are just as easy as anything else to grow. My jumbo pink banana squash is really awesome. In the immature stage it can be eaten like a summer squash (which are all immature squash by the way-- let them keep growing and they develop a hard shell). In the full-grown stage they can be 40+ lbs and are the ones commercially sold in sections in the grovery store sometimes-- and can store for months.

this one:

Aren't lemon cucumbers the best?! Only G-d knows why you can't easily find them either! I've only very rarely seem them at select farmers' markets.

I don't know if I've ever tried a jumbo pink banana squash. Take a pic once its grown a bit!

Spaghetti squash is fun too. Although this is the wrong season for them.

[Nasturtium 500]

I'll bite. I wasn't raised with any sort of religion. My mother was raised a strict Catholic and made a promise to herself that she would let her children decide what religion they want to be. I've been to many different churches and I did a little research on some of them. I went through a Buddist phase in high school. I have one sibling and she has converted to Islam because her husband is from Jordan. I have started reading about Islam since I met Badr and since I have really nothing to compare it to, I do seem to like it. Whether I will convert, I'm not yet sure. As to his parents, they accept me and love me for me. They know I'm not Muslim but the fact that their son loves me and is truly happy, my religion or lack there of doesn't bother them.

I feel like I got off track, but does that answer your question?

That is 100% what I was looking for! Thanks to you and LaL. You didn't get off track at all. I wish you two well I didn't know your sister was married to a Jordanian. Cute!

[geenee 0]

I don't know, Julianna. I suppose its just going to end up in disaster like most controversial posts do around here.

No cukes this year? The horror! But at least you'll get to eat squash... I like squash. But I think I prefer cucumbers. Persian cucumbers to be specific. Today I made fattoush with persian cucumbers and everyone raved. Why aren't the more readily available like the other kinds? They blow English hothouse out of the water!

Isn't it kind of funny that my post which had to do with atheists and agnostics, thus a lack of religion, is filled with a ton of religion?

Are you talking aout the cucumbers which are kind of sweet and whatnot? Those are a species of melon, actually. I am going to grow those too! I have lemon cukes coming up, but not my sumter cucumbers which were for Ammar. I don't know why those others aren't readily available, although it probably is just pure cultural preference. They are just as easy as anything else to grow. My jumbo pink banana squash is really awesome. In the immature stage it can be eaten like a summer squash (which are all immature squash by the way-- let them keep growing and they develop a hard shell). In the full-grown stage they can be 40+ lbs and are the ones commercially sold in sections in the grovery store sometimes-- and can store for months.

well you asked the question on how to deal with ur in-laws.... right? Well I think you have heard from a few muslims and so I think this might have helped you to understand wher ur in laws are comming from...right? This really has givin you some insight.

Obviously the ones who are agnostic or atheist are not very common or you might have heard from more of them.

I believe ur inlaws are not a problem... the problem will be between u and ur husband and the difference in ur 2 differenciating beliefs. If you can overcome that then the inlaws will be a breeze.

At least you kno the muslims standpoint on this matter now

[Nasturtium 500]

this one:

Aren't lemon cucumbers the best?! Only G-d knows why you can't easily find them either! I've only very rarely seem them at select farmers' markets.

I don't know if I've ever tried a jumbo pink banana squash. Take a pic once its grown a bit!

Spaghetti squash is fun too. Although this is the wrong season for them.

That looks like ghyair and not githa, so yeah that is a real cucumber. Hmm. You know I haven't seen seed for those. I was looking-- I looked under ME vegetables and whatnot. This place has some ME stuff:

http://www.superseeds.com/products.php?cat=96

But not a lot. I think, by the way the cucumbers looked in Jordan, that they must be a sterile burpless kind which is close to seedless/underdeveloped seeds. Ammar says they do not save the cucumber seeds but buy them fresh yearly, so I am thinking that this is true and they are some kind of F1 hybrid. This wouldn't stop us from having them here, but it would make it more difficult in that you would need to breed them.

You know I have yet to try a lemon cucumber? I have heard they are so awesome, so I thought I would try them!

That's the jumbo pink banana and it cut into sections. I guess they sell it commercially in grocery stores in sections since no one really wants a 40lb squash I wanted to use it for pumpkin bread. I know most canned pumpkin is actually butternut squash and I have heard people say the high sugar content of this squash really makes a great bread.

You know I saved some seeds from my spaghetti squash. I know they may not come true as who knows what that little guy was next to in the field.. but.. I should give them a try as mystery squash!

[sereia 0]

well you asked the question on how to deal with ur in-laws.... right? Well I think you have heard from a few muslims and so I think this might have helped you to understand wher ur in laws are comming from...right? This really has givin you some insight.

Obviously the ones who are agnostic or atheist are not very common or you might have heard from more of them.

I believe ur inlaws are not a problem... the problem will be between u and ur husband and the difference in ur 2 differenciating beliefs. If you can overcome that then the inlaws will be a breeze.

At least you kno the muslims standpoint on this matter now

Well considering its a new post, in the evening, and on a holiday...I wouldn't gather there would be a load of responses from Agnostics/Athiests just yet.

[sereia 0]

That looks like ghyair and not githa, so yeah that is a real cucumber. Hmm. You know I haven't seen seed for those. I was looking-- I looked under ME vegetables and whatnot. This place has some ME stuff:

http://www.superseeds.com/products.php?cat=96

But not a lot. I think, by the way the cucumbers looked in Jordan, that they must be a sterile burpless kind which is close to seedless/underdeveloped seeds. Ammar says they do not save the cucumber seeds but buy them fresh yearly, so I am thinking that this is true and they are some kind of F1 hybrid. This wouldn't stop us from having them here, but it would make it more difficult in that you would need to breed them.

You know I have yet to try a lemon cucumber? I have heard they are so awesome, so I thought I would try them!

That's the jumbo pink banana and it cut into sections. I guess they sell it commercially in grocery stores in sections since no one really wants a 40lb squash I wanted to use it for pumpkin bread. I know most canned pumpkin is actually butternut squash and I have heard people say the high sugar content of this squash really makes a great bread.

You know I saved some seeds from my spaghetti squash. I know they may not come true as who knows what that little guy was next to in the field.. but.. I should give them a try as mystery squash!

I hope you like the lemon cuke! They are really cute and delicious. I heard they are easy to grow. I wonder why they don't sell them more.

You know I have the greatest pumpkin bread recipe somewhere I will send you if you want!